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Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 04:45 PM CDT
The great dwarven blacksmiths of Elanthia have perfected methods that allow the weighting and padding of items to coexist with other magical properties that have previously not been possible! The dwarves have a lot to share here, so grab some ale and take a seat.

Weighting / Padding / Sighting Rescale
One of the major goals of redesigning the system was to open up Weighting/Padding/Sighting (from here referred to as W/P/S) services from behind the auction quality service wall due to its power level. To accomplish this, the numbers have been rescaled to create a system that benefits at lower amounts of W/P/S but maintains game balance as players work towards higher amounts.

At a high level, the new values follow the following chart
Old valueNew value Old valueNew value Old valueNew value
1 10 11 180 25 1000
2 20 12 210 30 1500
3 30 13 240 35 2000
4 40 14 270 40 2500
5 50 15 300 45 3500
6 70 16 340 50 5000
7 90 17 380
8 110 18 420
9 130 19 460
10 150 20 500


Simply put, the amount of W/P/S needed to go from old style 39 to 40 points (100) is significantly more than the amount needed to go from old style 4 to 5 (10) points. The old values are now breakpoints at which the combat effectiveness of the W/P/S are fed into the combat systems, and very little has changed in how they are used in combat. The new values provide a means to advance the weapon in a more granular way. The above chart shows the lowest value required to achieve that level of combat effectiveness, with additional points working towards the next increase in combat effectiveness.

Item Enhancement
W/P/S properties of armor and weapons have been moved into a dedicated attributes. Doing this will open the possibility of item systems that have been previously blocked due to overlap.

Permanent item enhancements such as flares/permabless/TD/Defender/etc will now be able to be on the same item as a W/P/S item. Adding these properties to currently W/P/S items will still be auction type wins, but adding W/P/S to items with those existing properties will be allowed as the system has been build around allowing W/P/S services on these items.

Temporary item enhancements such as blessing, guiding light flares, and eblade will be castable on W/P/S items up to specific limits, and with reduced effectiveness than a non-W/P/S item. This includes reduction to the AS bonus, flare potency, and/or charge counts of the temporary enhancement. As a general guideline, anything that assess at heavy and over will not accept a temporary flare, and will be very challenging to bless for all but the most skillful clerics. Consecrate (1604) will be very beneficial towards the blessing of weapons, especially those with more than heavy weighting.

W/P/S items are now also player enchantable, and no special temper potion is required! A difficulty penalty to success that correlates to the amount of W/P/S on the item, very similarly to ensorcell. Ensorcell difficulty penalties will remain the same in the new system. The penalty only increases when enough services have been acquired to actually increase the combat effectiveness of an item. An item that is "in between" combat effectiveness levels does not increase in difficulty until the next level has been reached.

Last but not least in the space of item properties is that each W/P/S type now occupies its own attribute, meaning items can now have both CRIT and DAMAGE weighting or padding, and both will be applied during each combat interaction that would normally benefit from them.

Services Model
Moving to the above rescale allows W/P/S services to be offered more commonly at events, and even through automated NPCs. W/P/S offerings will be at most events, big or small, free or otherwise. Wandering merchants may also offer the service on occasion. While it is debuting at Duskruin as a bloodscrip service, it will be offered for silvers at most other venues. The system is built to replace the randomness of limited raffle wins and reward consistent progression.

A 60 day Service Window is started at the first W/P/S on an item. Every W/P/S service done to that item within that 60 days will increase the Service Count within that window. Items will become more expensive to work on as the Service Count increases. Prices increases happen at Service Counts of 5, 10, and 15, with significant prices increases starting at 20+. On the first service after 60 day Service Window ends, the Service Window and Service Counts are reset. Prices for low service counts will be accessible to most players, while those with deep pockets willing to pay more to push into higher service counts can make improvements faster.

Base item pricing will be determined based on the other attributes of the item, including (but not limited to) enchant, flares, resistances, scripts, etc. The price of a single service of W/P/S is consistent no matter how much of that W/P/S type is on the item, but there is a surcharge for other types of W/P/S on the same item.

Item Conversion
Finally, current W/P/S items will be converted to the new system automatically by performing many normal game actions with the item. If you aren't sure, take it to your warrior friends to have them assess the item. These items will see no change in effectiveness on conversion, HCP armor is still HCP of the same value on the new scale.




Note The smithy at Duskruin is not open just yet so we can observe the system and make sure its stable. We'll be observing the system to make sure its operating like we expect and then will announce the opening of the smithy separately.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 04:56 PM CDT
Hm. This is a lot to take in, but it sounds promising. Am I correct in assuming that the 25 max "services" at Duskruin correlate to 25 "points" on the new system? So, even using all 25 services on HCP (+10 points) armor at Duskruin would still not take it all the way to 11 points?

~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox

You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that darts right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:04 PM CDT


I sincerely hope 1 service isn't = to 1 point on this new scale. That would mean 2 yrs of DR (at 2 per yr) to add what is now (or was) HCP. 100 yrs RL to get to wonderous. Otherwise, you need to lift that 25 per item per event thing.

Tell us the end game...I know you have plans somehow to make this more regularly available.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:06 PM CDT
HAHAHAH best stealth buff ever regarding enchanting!


Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:12 PM CDT


How does the new system scale with sigil padding.

the sigils gave HP, or 10 levels of padding, using them with already HP armor resulted in 20 levels of padding.

if they only give 150pts now, that results in 15 levels of padding. or do the sigils give a flat 10 levels of padding on top of whats already there.

just curious so i can figure out how much more i can look forward to having my face crited.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:14 PM CDT
I'm thrilled with the new model. I assume it'll become more regularly available based off the time limits on service windows. Just a few quick questions:

1. Does the natural weighting of razern count into what level a razern weapon is at or is it considered independently as a "free" bonus?

2. In a similar fashion will katanas (and claids that I don't care about) get some level of phantom weighting in this system so they aren't a ton harder to work on than standard weapons?

3. Will any lores play a part in enchanting, flaring or blessing weighted weapons?

4. Does the level of crit weighting matter when adding damage weighting (or padding, or vice versa)?

5. I am curious as to why adding weighting to flaring things is going to be fine but adding flaring to weighting is not.

6. Are there any restrictions to the Guiding Light flares that 1625 - Sanctify gives to paladins since apparently they now get a free sanctified FLARING weighted weapon?

Keith/Brinret/Eronderl

Keith is correct
-Wyrom, APM

Keith is correct.
-GameMaster Estild

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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:20 PM CDT
Also, could you tell us how this interacts with the padding bonus from 520 Mage Armor? Will we get an equivalent amount still?

_ _ _
Wyrom gestures at you, causing you to explode.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:24 PM CDT
How will (natural) sanctification interact with these changes? Does it increase the cost as much as permabless, less, or more?
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:28 PM CDT
Is it 5000 points total for W/D/S on an item or 5000 points for each type of W/D/S?

**********************
A quick flick of Wyrom's wrist sends a dagger into flight!
The thorny barrier surrounding you blocks Wyrom's attack!
One of the vines surrounding you lashes out at Wyrom, driving a thorn into his skin! Wyrom flinches slightly.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:29 PM CDT

One thing that could make this more palatable is to vary the "points per service" figure depending on the exclusiveness of the service offered and the cost of the event. For a premium event DR, for example, we can use max 25 services on one item, but each service yields 6 points of weighting. For a free wandering merchant, 1 service would be one point.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:30 PM CDT

Great changes this has pretty much saved enchanting from obscurity.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:36 PM CDT
Will I need to change dishwashing detergents?

~ Methais
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:36 PM CDT
I agree, great changes! Any hints to the skills that increase bless chances? Is it just cleric spell level or does blessing lore help? Is HCW the most we can expect to voln bless if that?
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:37 PM CDT
>>Am I correct in assuming that the 25 max "services" at Duskruin correlate to 25 "points" on the new system?
This is correct, services provided by the NPC are 1 point per service. The 25 service limit is our limit for this Duskruin. Future merchants may or may not have a limit (other than your wealth).

>>That would mean 2 yrs of DR (at 2 per yr) to add what is now (or was) HCP.
This won't be strictly at DR. W/P/S merchants can show up as random merchants, at small festivals, etc.

>>How does the new system scale with sigil padding.
Systems outside of weapons/armor have not changed. You will still get the same combat effectiveness from this, mage armor, etc as you did before.

>>Brinret Questions
1. Razern adds to any other weighting that might be on the item, it is not separate.
2. Same with katanas/claids. Claids are still very challenging to work with in other systems.
3. Only in any system they typically do. Example is blessing lore assists in blessing an item normally, so that benefit is carried over to weighted items.
4. For price, yes, adding damage weighting to a claid fairly expensive. For combat, no, the two don't affect the other.
5. A major part of this system was building the servicing model, so we've done a lot around the numbers in terms of cost of getting to claid weighting on a flaring weapon. We don't have the same backwards calculations yet.
6. Guiding light flares through 1625 are considered temporary enhancements, so as the weighting on the weapon goes up, the flare potency goes down.

Zissu - Combat and Magic Systems Dev Lackey
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:47 PM CDT


I really thought this whole, NPC to add padding/weighting/sighting thing was a good idea. Until you made it like this and changed the points etc. Before you could buy a "fresh padding" cert and now it's ridiculous to get anything to HCP. Thanks alot.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:48 PM CDT
Capped wizard, trying to temper +15 HCP brig:

Assuming {armor} can be tempered somehow...Unless you are horribly unlucky, you should have no trouble enchanting {armor}.

Had a warrior assess it in case I needed to force it to be converted, but dirtokh still just evaporates from it. (The armor does have Anfelt scripts, but I don't think that will block enchanting, will it?)

Is there something else I'm missing about the changes to allow enchanting these?
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 05:57 PM CDT
Are crit weighting and damage weighting separate slots from sighting? If so would it ever be possible to add sighting to weapons for purposes of aiming? What about weighting to bows for purposes of crit or damage? Just a random thought.

Keith/Brinret/Eronderl

Keith is correct
-Wyrom, APM

Keith is correct.
-GameMaster Estild

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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:01 PM CDT
>>Are crit weighting and damage weighting separate slots from sighting?
Yes, but most of the merchants will strongly advise against it (block it) to make sure its not accidentally done since there is very little benefit.

I'm checking on tempering, if there is an issue I'll update here.

Zissu - Combat and Magic Systems Dev Lackey
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:08 PM CDT
Any chance the smithy could be based in BS AND silver this time? The delay has kind of burned a lot of folks with their BS plans, letting this one have a silver option would be well received.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:29 PM CDT
>>The great dwarven blacksmiths of Elanthia have perfected methods that allow the weighting and padding of items to coexist with other magical properties that have previously not been possible! The dwarves have a lot to share here, so grab some ale and take a seat.

Hard at work here in the forge, and gotta say ...


I did'n do it, tho I was visitin the waggler shop here in Zul just yesterday askin 'bout all them potions they sale




Clunk

(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:29 PM CDT
>Is there something else I'm missing about the changes to allow enchanting these?

You didn't expect it to not come with tons of hassle did you?

I predict it will require more craziness than enchanting flaring items currently does.

~ Methais
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:31 PM CDT
>If so would it ever be possible to add sighting to weapons for purposes of aiming?

You mean like this? If so I'm on board.

https://www.albion-swords.com/images/april1/2014/ultimate%20tactical%20katana%20copy.jpg

~ Methais
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:32 PM CDT
Has enchant item been changed to allow enchanting weapons with bane weighting on them?
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:36 PM CDT


Some interesting changes, it seems well tailored to allow more players to access these services at the lower end.

A couple of specific systems/items I have questions about:

1) How is the gem-eating armor script affected by this change? These armors were sold at the recent Grand Auction. The script includes the ability to create very heavy critical padding or damage padding (I'm assuming 12 points on the old scale). It couldn't be padded under the old system since the script apparently took up the flare/padding slot, too.

Does the padding generated by the script stack with the new W/P/S slot?

Does it create its padding in the new slot, thus blocking the new W/P/S service?


2) How does the premium padding service work now? Does it still add 10 old (150 new) points of padding? Have the costs changed?

Have the costs changed for premium flaring and premium enchanting W/P/S items?
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:39 PM CDT
>>I predict it will require more craziness than enchanting flaring items currently does.

It says in the OP - no pretemper pot needed, just ups the difficulty, exactly like ensorcell. So, parity with ensorcell in that regard.

Wyrom says, "Ordim is the reason savants won't be coded as well."
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:54 PM CDT




One more question:

3) Regarding W/P/S service costs. Are temporary buffs like 1625 paladin bonding or bless/eblade factored into the costs for the service? Meaning, do paladins need to unbond to their weapons in order to not pay more?
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:55 PM CDT
>> >> >Is there something else I'm missing about the changes to allow enchanting these?

>> >> You didn't expect it to not come with tons of hassle did you?

>> >> I predict it will require more craziness than enchanting flaring items currently does.

>> >> ~ Methais

>> W/P/S items are now also player enchantable, and no special temper potion is required! A difficulty penalty to success that correlates to the amount of W/P/S on the item, very similarly to ensorcell. Ensorcell difficulty penalties will remain the same in the new system. The penalty only increases when enough services have been acquired to actually increase the combat effectiveness of an item. An item that is "in between" combat effectiveness levels does not increase in difficulty until the next level has been reached. ~Zissu

Sound like a bug in the initial release that requires the player to convert the item (via some command) or that will be squished soon.

-- Robert

You gesture at a colossal glaes-covered meteor.
The scream of tortured metal echoes around you as the lightning bolt strikes a colossal glaes-covered meteor.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 06:56 PM CDT
Is Loresinging // Assessing working correctly with the new changes?

I ask because in addition to the borking that has been going on since April of 2016 with Loresongs not being able to tell which of multiple properties is temporary or permanent ...

I just sang some armor from Duskruin, that a warrior flat out said were not temporary, and the song clearly said it was temporary.

---
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
;tune towncrier
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 07:43 PM CDT
Based off this information and the prior pricing given:

>>For padding a plain jane 6x armor:
>>Using 20 'services' will cost you 6125 bloodscrip
>>Using all 25 'services' will cost you 13825 bloodscrip

It would take the equivalent of 75m silver (at 25 services per time) or 40m (at 20 services per time) to get this armor to Heavy Padding.

Seems 1) overpriced and 2) will take a metric ton of time to do anything worthwhile.


Speaking in Faendryl, Jahosk says, "You will now be known as Blade Durakar, the Palestra."
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 07:53 PM CDT
Its less confusing if you just use bs. To go from 0 to heavy pasding using in 25 service increments is 82,950 bs. Under the old system fresh padding certs started at 50,000 and didnt take a year of merchant chasung to accomplish.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 08:04 PM CDT
For people who are screaming about how long it will take.. it's 10 months at 20 services per window. That's hardly long in this game. And it's not like you can't do 2 weapons at a time or anything. The smithy is annoying because of invites but other venues don't look like it'll have such restrictions.

It's amazing, people complain SO much about gear inflation and how things are too easy, then when something comes out that takes a little time to work on... too long.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 08:16 PM CDT


The concern I see is this change was made to force people to all the lame events they don't want to go to. Of course this service will be offered at EVERY event now, but I don't really want to have to do all the half-baked money grab events that are getting put out.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 08:16 PM CDT
<<For people who are screaming about how long it will take.. it's 10 months at 20 services per window. That's hardly long in this game>>

Thats for bottom of the barrel work (hcw/hcp) by padding/weighting standards. For me to move my weapon 10pts will take over 8 years if I can somehow get service every 2 months, which I seriously doubt. Itll also cost over 300k bs, at the rate given for a vanilla 6x iteem which its certainly not. Old system I could maybe save up and buy a cert or catch something like RtCF, new system I can add 2% every 2 months and wont even see mechanical benefit until 4 years into the project.

I think Ill pass, thanks.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 08:23 PM CDT
>>For me to move my weapon 10pts will take over 8 years if I can somehow get service every 2 months, which I seriously doubt. Itll also cost over 300k bs, at the rate given for a vanilla 6x iteem which its certainly not.

But how much will merchants be adding at regular events? Or how much will automated for silvers adding cost? Will there be raffles that add +1000? Tons and tons of unknowns still. It would be pretty great to have an idea for reference for future merchants.

_ _ _
Wyrom gestures at you, causing you to explode.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 08:24 PM CDT


Also... how often were Crit Weighting Increases offered in the past? Wasn't it always "add to X" not "increase by X"
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 08:27 PM CDT
I like the potential to work incrementally on items, especially ones that couldn't really be worked on before, but do have to agree that the current pricing (promises to be) ludicrously high and process extraordinarily slow.

~ Nuadjha, the Briar Fox

You inhale deeply upon your pipe, puckering your lips as you send out three rings of smoke before you, then puff out a small vine of smoke that darts right through all three which causes them to disperse in a hazy shroud!
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 08:29 PM CDT


It's not an accident. This was a well thought out choice.
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 08:37 PM CDT
>>it's 10 months at 20 services per window.

Um. . . 10 months is five 60-day windows, right? And 5 x 20 is only 100. Where's my math messed up?

I calculate 150 / 20 = 7.5 60-day windows or 15 months.

Doug
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 08:38 PM CDT

so thanks fer the release of the padding/weighting update , i have fiund a bug already though .

i have some 6x full pltae that is " Examining the platemail closely, it looks like it is heavily padded against critical blows. "
i used to be able to add master crush fittings on top of my padded armor and head/leg/arm , and would last 80-90 direct hits .

But soon as the update went live i started getting this message

" adjust armor against crushing damage / You attempt to adjust your skin-lined platemail with your plate armor fittings, but you soon realize that the platemail cannot be adjusted. "

So now i cant add crush fitting to my armors which is like a waste of my ARMOR skill entirely , if this is a bug let me know or of it has changed to that let me know so i can switch to armr suppport like every other warrior . i would prefer the crush fittings though .

Hoodie
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Re: Weighting/Padding/Sighting Revamp! 08/26/2017 08:44 PM CDT

>> I calculate 150 / 20 = 7.5 60-day windows or 15 months.

Yeah, my math was off
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