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Our favorite game balance guy, GM Warden, brings you a super fancy update to Multi-Opponent Combat!
At long last, Multi-Opponent Combat (a.k.a. MOC or Force on Force combat) will soon be implemented as part of our Really Spectacular November!
How does it work?
If a target is attacked by more than one attacker within a short period (less than 10 seconds), the target's defenses may be reduced. The amount of reduction in the target's defenses is based on the number of attackers, the level of the attackers compared to the defender, and the defender's skill in Multi-Opponent Combat.
Attackers within +/- 10 levels of the defender are considered one attacker. Attackers more than 10 levels below the defender are treated as half of an attacker. Attackers more than 10 levels above the defender are treated as 1.5 attackers. The total number of attackers is tallied and rounded to determine how many effective attackers are engaging the defender. (Even if an attacker is 20 levels higher than the defender, no multi-attacker penalty applies to the defender unless there is another attacker.)
At 15 MOC ranks, and for every 20 MOC ranks thereafter, one effective attacker is negated.
For every effective attacker beyond the first, the defender's effective stance is reduced by 25%, similar to the way that ambushing from hiding currently modifies a defender's effective stance. If the total reduction would go below 0 (full offensive stance), then the remainder percentage will be applied to the defender's offensive-stance Parry, Evade, and Block DS. It will not reduce those values below 0.
Multi-Opponent Combat will be implemented the evening of November 30th. For the initial release it will apply to all creature defenders, but only to player defenders 50th level and higher. The release will be expanded to include all player defenders on December 7th.
Q. Does it apply to creatures when players attack them?
A. Yes! Grab a buddy or two and have fun ganging up on your enemies!
Q. What about my 1st level paladin that I just made today? Is he going to die to a rat swarm?
A. Creatures 5th level and less will be treated as half of an attacker when evaluating how many attackers are on a defender, so a minimum of 3 would be required before a newbie character loses any defenses at all. Player character attackers of all levels will still be considered normally, however.
Q. How can I avoid being beat up by creatures?
A. There are many ways to offset the potential for multiple attackers beating up your character. These include, 1) training in Multi-Opponent Combat, 2) hunting with a buddy, which will reduce the chances of enemies taking all of their attacks out on you, 3) retreating to another room so you can fight where you are not outnumbered, and 4) doing something to stop the attackers from attacking (e-wave, Lullabye, hitting one hard enough to stun it, etc.). No defenses are lost just for a potential attacker being present in the room. Attackers are only considered "engaged" if they physically attack the defender.
Q. What counts as an attack?
A. Currently all attacks that are resolved with our basic AS/DS combat system are considered, but this will be expanded in the near future to include maneuver attacks as well.
Q. What if I attack more than once with MSTRIKE or Two Weapon Combat?
A. No matter how many times an attacker attacks a target, he is only treated as a single attacker for the purposes of Multi-Opponent Combat.
GS4-KITRINA
KARDIOS
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 09:33 AM CST
<< Currently all attacks that are resolved with our basic AS/DS combat system are considered, but this will be expanded in the near future to include maneuver attacks as well. >>
What about attacks using the CS/TD system?
What about attacks using the CS/TD system?
CARABELE
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 09:34 AM CST
Geeze, with the costs of MOC so high for them, this is such bad news for pures.
I am absolutely not a fan of this change.
I am absolutely not a fan of this change.
KARDIOS
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 09:37 AM CST
Do Ranger companions (and will animated dead) count as a member of a player's party?
KRAKII
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 09:42 AM CST
"For every effective attacker beyond the first, the defender's effective stance is reduced by 25%" -- Kitrina
.
I suppose my question boils down to, "does each of the attackers get only the pushdown that that attacker confers, or does each of the attackers get all the pushdown that all attackers would confer?"
.
That is to say, is it column A or column B?
.
I suppose my question boils down to, "does each of the attackers get only the pushdown that that attacker confers, or does each of the attackers get all the pushdown that all attackers would confer?"
.
That is to say, is it column A or column B?
| Critter | Pushdown for number | ACTUAL pushdown (A) | or ACTUAL pushdown (B) | comment |
| | | | | |
| 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | nothing to pushdown |
| . | . | . | . | . |
| 2a | 25% | 0 | 25 | do all of the attackers get the bonus (column B)? |
| 2b | 25% | 25 | 25 | or only the one that triggers it (column A)? |
| . | . | . | . | . |
| 3a | 50% | 0 | 50 | if all get the bonus, column B |
| 3b | 50% | 25 | 50 | if each gets the bonus it provides, column A |
| 3c | 50% | 50 | 50 | Column B sucks. <grin> |
KARDIOS
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 09:47 AM CST
One more question. What about severely incapacitated critters that are still able to attack?
For example, let's say I face three critters my level. I use spell 708 to remove one arm and one leg from each of two of the three critters. After the brief stun from spell 708 wears off, the two injured critters will still be able to attack me. But their attack will be so weak that I would normally ignore them until I finish with the one uninjured critter.
Under the new MOC system, will the otherwise futile attacks by the two severely injured critters reduce my DS against the one uninjured critter to the same extent that my DS would be reduced if all three of the critters were at their full capacity?
For example, let's say I face three critters my level. I use spell 708 to remove one arm and one leg from each of two of the three critters. After the brief stun from spell 708 wears off, the two injured critters will still be able to attack me. But their attack will be so weak that I would normally ignore them until I finish with the one uninjured critter.
Under the new MOC system, will the otherwise futile attacks by the two severely injured critters reduce my DS against the one uninjured critter to the same extent that my DS would be reduced if all three of the critters were at their full capacity?
KRISTENL
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 09:48 AM CST
I knew my uphunting empath was too good to be true.
Come to the House of Gnomish Goods for all your various and sundry needs. Located at the Mouth of the Solhaven Spiral!
Find our current inventory here! http://www.playershops.com/HouseofGnomishGoods
Come to the House of Gnomish Goods for all your various and sundry needs. Located at the Mouth of the Solhaven Spiral!
Find our current inventory here! http://www.playershops.com/HouseofGnomishGoods
KARDIOS
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 09:55 AM CST
Although I have asked several questions about the new MOC system, I generally think it is a good idea. It is more realistic than the current system. Some tweaking may be in order to account for distance (e.g., should vipers in trees that are not hittable with certain spells while they are in the trees still count as one full attacker?).
I do not believe that it will significantly affect my Sorcerer, who, BTW, does not have enough MOC ranks to reduce for one attacker. I may retreat a bit more often than I do now. But I think I will easily develop new tactics to compensate.
I do not believe that it will significantly affect my Sorcerer, who, BTW, does not have enough MOC ranks to reduce for one attacker. I may retreat a bit more often than I do now. But I think I will easily develop new tactics to compensate.
KEEFA
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:00 AM CST
>>Although I have asked several questions about the new MOC system, I generally think it is a good idea. It is more realistic than the current system. Some tweaking may be in order to account for distance (e.g., should vipers in trees that are not hittable with certain spells while they are in the trees still count as one full attacker?).
I do not believe that it will significantly affect my Sorcerer, who, BTW, does not have enough MOC ranks to reduce for one attacker. I may retreat a bit more often than I do now. But I think I will easily develop new tactics to compensate.<<
Great it's more realistic. I'm all for that once they make it so I can cast spells at critters in different rooms. This change is going to force pures to retreat pretty much any time there's more than one or two critters in a room. I'm all for retreating and whipping spells back into the room but not for making some of the places I currently hunt practically unhuntable. The stronghold was bad enough before this and the eye on Teras (behind the door) is going to be a death trap. I didn't like this idea when they were talking about requiring 1 MO rank per creature, I like it even less at 15 ranks for ONE creature. I certainly hope my minor demon counts as another thing in the room for this just to give sorcerers a chance to survive higher levels with this crap.
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
I do not believe that it will significantly affect my Sorcerer, who, BTW, does not have enough MOC ranks to reduce for one attacker. I may retreat a bit more often than I do now. But I think I will easily develop new tactics to compensate.<<
Great it's more realistic. I'm all for that once they make it so I can cast spells at critters in different rooms. This change is going to force pures to retreat pretty much any time there's more than one or two critters in a room. I'm all for retreating and whipping spells back into the room but not for making some of the places I currently hunt practically unhuntable. The stronghold was bad enough before this and the eye on Teras (behind the door) is going to be a death trap. I didn't like this idea when they were talking about requiring 1 MO rank per creature, I like it even less at 15 ranks for ONE creature. I certainly hope my minor demon counts as another thing in the room for this just to give sorcerers a chance to survive higher levels with this crap.
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
LORDOMENS
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:00 AM CST
Reply
One more question. What about severely incapacitated critters that are still able to attack?
For example, let's say I face three critters my level. I use spell 708 to remove one arm and one leg from each of two of the three critters. After the brief stun from spell 708 wears off, the two injured critters will still be able to attack me. But their attack will be so weak that I would normally ignore them until I finish with the one uninjured critter.
~~Kardios
I was thinking the same thing. I was also wondering. When does this 10 seconds reset ? If a critter comes in and attacks, the timer starts, I kill it on the first cast, Let's say another one comes in, after 3 seconds and attacks, That's -20% on that swing, Say a third comes in right at the 10 second limit and swings, It's been 10 since the first took a swing at me but only 7 since the second, So is that still just -20% or would that be -40% because of the other critter's timer that started 3 seconds after the first one did? Meaning, Is it one refreshable timer, You need to be not Attacked at all in 10 seconds to clear the attcker que ? Or is it time per critter.
Because you would still be under the -20 from the second critter that took a swing at you, So the next swinger should get the -40, But, If that attcker is no longer there, how it is still effecting your Ds ?
Omens.
We trained him wrong on purpose. You know, As a joke.
LORDOMENS
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:08 AM CST
Another question, On a one hit kill. It takes me less then 4 seconds if using a soft rt spell, to loot, get the treasure, put it away, and move to the next room. Will I still be at -20% if something swings at me 3 rooms away at 9 seconds past the first attack even though that was 2 or 3 rooms away and it's dead already ?
Omens.
We trained him wrong on purpose. You know, As a joke.
Omens.
We trained him wrong on purpose. You know, As a joke.
GARYBME
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:11 AM CST
Great, another skill we're going to be forced to train in. Well, at least the paladins and the wizards have a use for their slow spells.
Gary
Gary
JADE123
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:12 AM CST
Do companions count as an additional attacker? Half an attacker? When in attack mode?
I am curious because they generate an AS/DS and a maneuver.
______________________________________
Nyrithorn says in elven, "She's speaking psycho speak. One of our brothers killed our mother for speaking it."
http://www.geocities.com/rinika_tsui/charnanearfinish.jpg
I am curious because they generate an AS/DS and a maneuver.
______________________________________
Nyrithorn says in elven, "She's speaking psycho speak. One of our brothers killed our mother for speaking it."
http://www.geocities.com/rinika_tsui/charnanearfinish.jpg
CELTARLOMION
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:14 AM CST
Totally agree with Carabelle. Its' insane at what rank the benefits start for MOC training and worse for when the next benefit rank kicks in. This totally waxes pures, semi's and hell even rogues. My warriors barely single in MOC due to the high cost of the skill even for them.
The rank level needs to be lowered to like 5 ranks to gain benefit which is still very costly for a pure and semi. The further benefit should be like every 5 ranks or so. This is not even balanced right now, we've all seen swarms of 10 to 20 creatures at a time. Talk about death very quickly for anyone including a warrior if they all attack at once which does happen frequently.
Hell, part of how I parry tag is based on the fact that creatures who don't run after attacking tend to fall in line with the other creatures. Within a few rounds all are attacking at once. You allow them to attack go to stance offensive and swing then go back to stance defense before they all attack again.
The system causes this limitation of the creatures, said limitation is now going to be very nasty with this MO combat change. Unbalanced comes to mind. Look, we don't have an egagement system so all creatures in a location can and frequently do all engage us at once. They shouldn't be able to but they do due to the lack of an engagement system. Please do not cripple hunting for everyone with this silliness.
Jim
The rank level needs to be lowered to like 5 ranks to gain benefit which is still very costly for a pure and semi. The further benefit should be like every 5 ranks or so. This is not even balanced right now, we've all seen swarms of 10 to 20 creatures at a time. Talk about death very quickly for anyone including a warrior if they all attack at once which does happen frequently.
Hell, part of how I parry tag is based on the fact that creatures who don't run after attacking tend to fall in line with the other creatures. Within a few rounds all are attacking at once. You allow them to attack go to stance offensive and swing then go back to stance defense before they all attack again.
The system causes this limitation of the creatures, said limitation is now going to be very nasty with this MO combat change. Unbalanced comes to mind. Look, we don't have an egagement system so all creatures in a location can and frequently do all engage us at once. They shouldn't be able to but they do due to the lack of an engagement system. Please do not cripple hunting for everyone with this silliness.
Jim
KEEFA
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:15 AM CST
>>Great, another skill we're going to be forced to train in. Well, at least the paladins and the wizards have a use for their slow spells.<<
Great a skill pures can't afford to train in enough for it to matter. I say again the reduction in defense in most hunting areas will completely kill pures. Invasions will be entirely off limits to spellcasters. This change is idiotic. It's only purpose that I can see is making pures die more or forcing group hunting. The reason I play GS over other games is because other games force group hunting. I can't think of any other way to put this but to say, What the heck is your damned problem Warden?
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
Great a skill pures can't afford to train in enough for it to matter. I say again the reduction in defense in most hunting areas will completely kill pures. Invasions will be entirely off limits to spellcasters. This change is idiotic. It's only purpose that I can see is making pures die more or forcing group hunting. The reason I play GS over other games is because other games force group hunting. I can't think of any other way to put this but to say, What the heck is your damned problem Warden?
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
ROBERTSONF
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:32 AM CST
"For every effective attacker beyond the first, the defender's effective stance is reduced by 25%, similar to the way that ambushing from hiding currently modifies a defender's effective stance. If the total reduction would go below 0 (full offensive stance), then the remainder percentage will be applied to the defender's offensive-stance Parry, Evade, and Block DS. It will not reduce those values below 0."
We are never going to survive an invasion again.....
"Doom I say.... Doom!" Isilisi, the soon to be doomsayer.
Of all the things I think I know, there is only one thing I know I know, and that is that I know nothing worth knowing.
We are never going to survive an invasion again.....
"Doom I say.... Doom!" Isilisi, the soon to be doomsayer.
Of all the things I think I know, there is only one thing I know I know, and that is that I know nothing worth knowing.
KEEFA
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:34 AM CST
We have polls for a reason. I'd like to see one here. If that isn't possible I've a suggestion for my fellow players. We could all use a little extra money during the holiday season. Perhaps we could get that extra money while doing something for ourselves. How many people would join in a one month shut down of all GS accounts if this change is implemented?
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
SIEVERTK3
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:37 AM CST
Geeze, with the costs of MOC so high for them, this is such bad news for pures.
I am absolutely not a fan of this change.
-CARABELE
I second this, if your going to do this lower the cost of MOC, for wizards it's 15/10, that's 40 mental points.
Or cut down the 25% DS lose to like, 10%.
This is what warden calls balance? It makes sense... but we are pures are punished way too much for this.
I am absolutely not a fan of this change.
-CARABELE
I second this, if your going to do this lower the cost of MOC, for wizards it's 15/10, that's 40 mental points.
Or cut down the 25% DS lose to like, 10%.
This is what warden calls balance? It makes sense... but we are pures are punished way too much for this.
TARTELLB
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:39 AM CST
I'm severely disappointed in this implementation.
Without an engagement system that takes range into effect, it's a completely asinine concept.
As Kithus said, pures, by their very nature, are RANGED fighters. They cast spells from a distance.
Unfortunately, due to the limitations of GemStone's ever-aging system, range means jack crap in this game. You can enter a room that has a description of it being a mile-wide barren plain, yet the second you enter it, BAM, every creature is right on top of you humping your leg.
This system should never have been implemented without giving pures a way to counter it. MoC is prohibitively expensive for them to train in.
So, in effect, this system has transformed pures from being the best at handling swarms with their mass attack spells and room-clearing abilities into folks that will be forced to flee from three or four creatures as if their ass was on fire.
Way to go, Simu.
Way to go, Warden.
You excel at making this game less fun every day.
It takes a genius to be able to do that.
Without an engagement system that takes range into effect, it's a completely asinine concept.
As Kithus said, pures, by their very nature, are RANGED fighters. They cast spells from a distance.
Unfortunately, due to the limitations of GemStone's ever-aging system, range means jack crap in this game. You can enter a room that has a description of it being a mile-wide barren plain, yet the second you enter it, BAM, every creature is right on top of you humping your leg.
This system should never have been implemented without giving pures a way to counter it. MoC is prohibitively expensive for them to train in.
So, in effect, this system has transformed pures from being the best at handling swarms with their mass attack spells and room-clearing abilities into folks that will be forced to flee from three or four creatures as if their ass was on fire.
Way to go, Simu.
Way to go, Warden.
You excel at making this game less fun every day.
It takes a genius to be able to do that.
ETANNIDOMHNAILL
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:41 AM CST
<<This is what warden calls balance? It makes sense... but we are pures are punished way too much for this.>>
Maybe I'm missing the point, but we pures have disabling spells. Why not use them?
Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.geocities.com/ladynilandia
AIM: Lady Nilandia
Maybe I'm missing the point, but we pures have disabling spells. Why not use them?
Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.geocities.com/ladynilandia
AIM: Lady Nilandia
KEEFA
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:46 AM CST
>>Maybe I'm missing the point, but we pures have disabling spells. Why not use them?
Nilandia<<
Because we as pures also have a finite mana supply. Beyond that a lot of critters tend to be immune to a LOT of disabling spells. I know I can't afford to limb disrupt every creature I kill to the point where they can't attack. This is a bad change and it's going to make hunting even less fun than it has been.
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
Nilandia<<
Because we as pures also have a finite mana supply. Beyond that a lot of critters tend to be immune to a LOT of disabling spells. I know I can't afford to limb disrupt every creature I kill to the point where they can't attack. This is a bad change and it's going to make hunting even less fun than it has been.
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
NOAHBODINOSE1
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:48 AM CST
I hope this means the costs of MOC will be going down, since it is now needed as a defensive tool as well as the previous use as an offensive tool. I hope this isn't just an attempt to force people to hunt in groups or be overrun.
SIEVERTK3
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:49 AM CST
Disabling spells.... you better uptweak all those Warden, because I doubt they are effective enough to save my skin in a 3 critter swarm in the rift.
ETANNIDOMHNAILL
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:50 AM CST
<<I know I can't afford to limb disrupt every creature I kill to the point where they can't attack.>>
Ewave, perhaps. Or Mind Jolt if they're susceptible. Heck, even stunning the suckers works. Make sure that no one's around and open a void.
Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.geocities.com/ladynilandia
AIM: Lady Nilandia
Ewave, perhaps. Or Mind Jolt if they're susceptible. Heck, even stunning the suckers works. Make sure that no one's around and open a void.
Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.geocities.com/ladynilandia
AIM: Lady Nilandia
TARTELLB
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:52 AM CST
<<Ewave, perhaps. Or Mind Jolt if they're susceptible. Heck, even stunning the suckers works. Make sure that no one's around and open a void.>>
To be brutally honest?
If I get swarmed by more than 3 or 4 creatures, and my DS is dropping faster than Simu's customer base, I won't hesitate one second to open up an open void.
To hell with anyone that should walk into it.
Simu wants to force this crap on us without giving us anything in return?
I'll use whatever's in my disposal to counter its effects.
To be brutally honest?
If I get swarmed by more than 3 or 4 creatures, and my DS is dropping faster than Simu's customer base, I won't hesitate one second to open up an open void.
To hell with anyone that should walk into it.
Simu wants to force this crap on us without giving us anything in return?
I'll use whatever's in my disposal to counter its effects.
KEEFA
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:52 AM CST
>>Ewave, perhaps. Or Mind Jolt if they're susceptible. Heck, even stunning the suckers works. Make sure that no one's around and open a void.
Nilandia<<
E-wave is spectacularly ineffective a lot of times. Stunning still costs 6 extra mana per creature. As for the void thing that was one of my plans, only it'll be regardless of who's around.
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
Nilandia<<
E-wave is spectacularly ineffective a lot of times. Stunning still costs 6 extra mana per creature. As for the void thing that was one of my plans, only it'll be regardless of who's around.
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
KRISTENL
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:57 AM CST
I sure hope there's a mass calm type spell on the mental lists. Until then, I guess my empaths will be throwing around calm. At least it's low mana. Any of their other spells are out of the question, too mana intensive.
I guess I just need to see how this works before I judge. Sure sounds painful, though.
Come to the House of Gnomish Goods for all your various and sundry needs. Located at the Mouth of the Solhaven Spiral!
Find our current inventory here! http://www.playershops.com/HouseofGnomishGoods
I guess I just need to see how this works before I judge. Sure sounds painful, though.
Come to the House of Gnomish Goods for all your various and sundry needs. Located at the Mouth of the Solhaven Spiral!
Find our current inventory here! http://www.playershops.com/HouseofGnomishGoods
SIEVERTK3
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:59 AM CST
LOL... DS dropping like Simu's customer base... Depending how this works out I might put my account on hold and play WoW.
RONTUU
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:59 AM CST
I have to agree with some of these complaints. Without an engagement system, this change should absolutely not be implemented. I, as a caster, am disintegrating someone from fifty feet away. I'll tell you that there is no way in hell I can survive any attack with my offensive DS in the rift. And frankly, there are swarms there quite regularly. I feel that without an engagement system, this is forcing us to group hunt, which should be an option... Not a requirement.
Rontuu
Rontuu
TATANIA83
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:03 AM CST
I'm not upset by this change, and in fact supportive of it. Now, I know this is putting me into a serious minority, but out of curiousity:
Why not try grouping up with someone to try and negate your DS penalties? I understand that a lot of us are much more into solo hunting than group hunting, but maybe considering it as more of an option would help out.
Perhaps, for pures (clerics, empaths, wizards, sorcerers), a compromise could be presented where the penalties are halved for them -- to simulate the 'range' that we don't actually have in game but that is being used as a valid argument.
I play an ambushing rogue, an mstriking bard, and two "pure" pures (an empath and a wizard) so I will be very affected by this change. However, I doubt it's going away anytime soon, so the best we can hope to do is convince Warden et al to consider a few tweaks and compromises to the system.
T.
Akiromora says, "Someone should have come dressed up as Knaydl. Of course, we'd have to wait four hours for that person to arrive."
*
From behind a fine monir tavern wench statue, Mahir's voice exclaims, "I'm Meirit, I eat socks!"
Why not try grouping up with someone to try and negate your DS penalties? I understand that a lot of us are much more into solo hunting than group hunting, but maybe considering it as more of an option would help out.
Perhaps, for pures (clerics, empaths, wizards, sorcerers), a compromise could be presented where the penalties are halved for them -- to simulate the 'range' that we don't actually have in game but that is being used as a valid argument.
I play an ambushing rogue, an mstriking bard, and two "pure" pures (an empath and a wizard) so I will be very affected by this change. However, I doubt it's going away anytime soon, so the best we can hope to do is convince Warden et al to consider a few tweaks and compromises to the system.
T.
Akiromora says, "Someone should have come dressed up as Knaydl. Of course, we'd have to wait four hours for that person to arrive."
*
From behind a fine monir tavern wench statue, Mahir's voice exclaims, "I'm Meirit, I eat socks!"
NOAHBODINOSE1
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:04 AM CST
We have polls for a reason. I'd like to see one here. If that isn't possible I've a suggestion for my fellow players. We could all use a little extra money during the holiday season. Perhaps we could get that extra money while doing something for ourselves. How many people would join in a one month shut down of all GS accounts if this change is implemented?
Count me in. The day I see this system (the way it's currently described), is the day I start looking for somewhere else to go.
Count me in. The day I see this system (the way it's currently described), is the day I start looking for somewhere else to go.
SIEVERTK3
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:07 AM CST
Group hunting is not very much of an option for me in the rift with maybe 2 or 3 people in there when I hunt... and they hunt other planes...
I barely have enough DS to surive a swing from these things now. Well, people can look forward to alot of more this anyway....
*The death cry of Meos echos in your mind.
I barely have enough DS to surive a swing from these things now. Well, people can look forward to alot of more this anyway....
*The death cry of Meos echos in your mind.
MANNC1
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:10 AM CST
Ahhh, and the push to force people to group hunt begins...
Odysia
not happy about this new..development
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies, cannot stand."
Odysia
not happy about this new..development
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies, cannot stand."
TARTELLB
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:10 AM CST
<<Why not try grouping up with someone to try and negate your DS penalties? I understand that a lot of us are much more into solo hunting than group hunting, but maybe considering it as more of an option would help out.>>
No.
Short and simple answer.
Want it explained?
I chose to play a pure ten years ago for a reason. They're self-sufficient. They don't NEED the help of others. Yes, while help from others is sometimes useful, it's not a requirement.
I've considered the option of grouping.
I've turned it down.
Know why?
Hunting is boring.
I'll say that again
Hunting is boring
When I hunt, I spell up, I go out, I kill things as quickly as possible to get it over with, and then I head back to town or wherever to socialize. If I group up, hunting takes longer as you wait for your partner get in enough damage to ensure they get experience.
This system simply takes something that's already boring, monotonous, and mind-numbing, and adds a distinct flavor of *unbearable frustration* into the mix.
Again, good job, Simu and Warden!
It's not everybody that can take something that already sucks, tinker with it, change it, and transform it into something that sucks even more!
No.
Short and simple answer.
Want it explained?
I chose to play a pure ten years ago for a reason. They're self-sufficient. They don't NEED the help of others. Yes, while help from others is sometimes useful, it's not a requirement.
I've considered the option of grouping.
I've turned it down.
Know why?
Hunting is boring.
I'll say that again
Hunting is boring
When I hunt, I spell up, I go out, I kill things as quickly as possible to get it over with, and then I head back to town or wherever to socialize. If I group up, hunting takes longer as you wait for your partner get in enough damage to ensure they get experience.
This system simply takes something that's already boring, monotonous, and mind-numbing, and adds a distinct flavor of *unbearable frustration* into the mix.
Again, good job, Simu and Warden!
It's not everybody that can take something that already sucks, tinker with it, change it, and transform it into something that sucks even more!
MUSCIANESI
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:12 AM CST
Im usually one of the first to give the GMs the benefit of the doubt. Im just not with them on this one. This is really going to antagonize the player base - and I just dont see what it really adds that anyone wants.
Landrion/Katryn
Landrion/Katryn
ETANNIDOMHNAILL
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:13 AM CST
<<Hunting is boring.>>
Ain't so boring now, is it? ::flees::
Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.geocities.com/ladynilandia
AIM: Lady Nilandia
Ain't so boring now, is it? ::flees::
Nilandia
Nilandia's GS4 Info Repository: http://www.geocities.com/ladynilandia
AIM: Lady Nilandia
KEEFA
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:18 AM CST
<<Hunting is boring.>>
Ain't so boring now, is it? ::flees::
Nilandia<<
Of course not a lot of us won't be able to survive hunting at this point. I will say after looking everything over my own personal situation might not be completely grim. I might not have to worry about this change at all, for right now. Of course I'm pretty sure I can count the number of pures who are 1x brawling/1x shield with a 9x shield and 8x armor along with a few other nifty toys on my digits. I hunt in offensive right now so maybe this won't hurt me but runestaff users... ::wince::
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
Ain't so boring now, is it? ::flees::
Nilandia<<
Of course not a lot of us won't be able to survive hunting at this point. I will say after looking everything over my own personal situation might not be completely grim. I might not have to worry about this change at all, for right now. Of course I'm pretty sure I can count the number of pures who are 1x brawling/1x shield with a 9x shield and 8x armor along with a few other nifty toys on my digits. I hunt in offensive right now so maybe this won't hurt me but runestaff users... ::wince::
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
TARTELLB
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:18 AM CST
<<Ain't so boring now, is it? ::flees::>>
Not when it's frustrating, no.
I'm all for added challenge. Hell, playing a Sorcerer throughout growing pains was nothing but added challenge. But the fact that Warden's throwing this system into the game willy-nilly without giving pures any way to compensate for it is absurd.
Not when it's frustrating, no.
I'm all for added challenge. Hell, playing a Sorcerer throughout growing pains was nothing but added challenge. But the fact that Warden's throwing this system into the game willy-nilly without giving pures any way to compensate for it is absurd.
KROSAN
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:21 AM CST
Lets make it plain and simple...
When I'm hunting and someone walks in the room and I'm using major ewave their fault for walking in...
Since Kitrina mentioned on ways to prevent this from happening is using spells that stop the critters...
so thanks to that its foregrounds for using massive attack spells...
rangers have 635 very nasty spells as you many of you witnessed in solhaven from the sisters of blight
Sorcerers, bards, wizards have 435 major ewave, no need to explain that spell
Sorcerers have implosion unfocued and quake
Wizards Meteor swarm and tremors
Let the party begin!
Warriors, Rogues, Paladins, and Bards can train in MOC to prevent the - ds attacks..
Everyone is happy accept the empaths that shouldn't be hunting in the first place <rofl> sorry guys you got the short end of the stick
Brimz
When I'm hunting and someone walks in the room and I'm using major ewave their fault for walking in...
Since Kitrina mentioned on ways to prevent this from happening is using spells that stop the critters...
so thanks to that its foregrounds for using massive attack spells...
rangers have 635 very nasty spells as you many of you witnessed in solhaven from the sisters of blight
Sorcerers, bards, wizards have 435 major ewave, no need to explain that spell
Sorcerers have implosion unfocued and quake
Wizards Meteor swarm and tremors
Let the party begin!
Warriors, Rogues, Paladins, and Bards can train in MOC to prevent the - ds attacks..
Everyone is happy accept the empaths that shouldn't be hunting in the first place <rofl> sorry guys you got the short end of the stick
Brimz
MAXMANJ
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:24 AM CST
<< The rank level needs to be lowered to like 5 ranks to gain benefit which is still very costly for a pure and semi. The further benefit should be like every 5 ranks or so. This is not even balanced right now, we've all seen swarms of 10 to 20 creatures at a time. Talk about death very quickly for anyone including a warrior if they all attack at once which does happen frequently. >>
I can see 5 ranks for the first benifit point, but after that it should be upped to at least every 10 ranks. With just one benifit it will take 3 creatures to see the first penalty. 3 creatures isn't exactly common, it's not rare either. 4 or 5 creatures though, that only happens in a few areas of the game and is easily avoided if you don't have the skills. I havn't seen a swarm of 10-20 creatures outside of an invasion in years(I miss the old dirge swarms).
Josh
I can see 5 ranks for the first benifit point, but after that it should be upped to at least every 10 ranks. With just one benifit it will take 3 creatures to see the first penalty. 3 creatures isn't exactly common, it's not rare either. 4 or 5 creatures though, that only happens in a few areas of the game and is easily avoided if you don't have the skills. I havn't seen a swarm of 10-20 creatures outside of an invasion in years(I miss the old dirge swarms).
Josh
