Previous
Here's one that really needs an answer...
If Warden's mini-FAQ is to be believed, you can't run away from a swarm and lose the penalties incurred by it because "it'd be too easy to abuse".
In that case, my assumption is that if you ran by eight single creatures in eight different rooms and they all got a swing in, by the end of 10 seconds, you may as well be facing them all at once. And then if you end up in a room with 4 more creatures... well, it goes without saying that your only DS is from your spells at that point.
Red letters-- is this the case or do the creatures need to be in the same room upon swinging for the penalties to begin? If so, does two seperate groups of creatures (2 or more in one room, 2 or more in the other) begin adding up penalties as if they were all in the same room if they take a swing at you?
Basically, where is the line drawn? This is definitely a system you really need to give us some information about if you hope to keep any portion of your costumer base should this mockery push through...
--Fizzan's Player
Thus far, I've heard a ranger, a warrior, two rogues, a cleric, two mages, an empath and a bard complaining about this thing. And I haven't been out of the PC tent (or off the boards) for more than fifteen minutes!
FIZZAN
BLKROSE373
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat (respecatable hunting empaths thread)
11/30/2004 07:35 PM CST
**
Theres like only 3 well 2 good respectable hunting empaths left... - Brimz
***
What qualifies one as a respectable hunting empath?
I am curios to see if my boy would fall in the category. ;)
-Anthony (Aluvios's player)
Theres like only 3 well 2 good respectable hunting empaths left... - Brimz
***
What qualifies one as a respectable hunting empath?
I am curios to see if my boy would fall in the category. ;)
-Anthony (Aluvios's player)
MALAFAXUS
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 07:56 PM CST
As a rogue that typically solo hunts, has no multi-opponent combat training, and will for the most part not benefit at all from this system, it doesn't seem that bad to me.
If you leap solo into a group of 4 monsters that are all supposedly on par with you, you should get beat down. Just because a system makes the game more difficult doesn't necessarily mean that it's a bad thing. It seems to be a system designed to nudge people into groups where they can actually benefit from the system rather than be hindered by it. Of course, I may change my opinion after more extensive testing, but I currently view it as a positive improvement.
One thing that could possibly solve the problem that deals with running into another room and having a different monster get the bonus on you would be if the game could somehow keep track of whether or not the monster(s) that caused you the penalty are still in the room. If no monster that has had an attack on you in the last 10 seconds is still around, then the penalty should be gone, regardless of whether or not the 10 seconds have expired.
If you leap solo into a group of 4 monsters that are all supposedly on par with you, you should get beat down. Just because a system makes the game more difficult doesn't necessarily mean that it's a bad thing. It seems to be a system designed to nudge people into groups where they can actually benefit from the system rather than be hindered by it. Of course, I may change my opinion after more extensive testing, but I currently view it as a positive improvement.
One thing that could possibly solve the problem that deals with running into another room and having a different monster get the bonus on you would be if the game could somehow keep track of whether or not the monster(s) that caused you the penalty are still in the room. If no monster that has had an attack on you in the last 10 seconds is still around, then the penalty should be gone, regardless of whether or not the 10 seconds have expired.
FIZZAN
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 08:16 PM CST
Update--
Indeed, if one critter swings at you in one room then you move to another and are swung upon again within 10 seconds, your DS suffers as if the two things were standing side by side and you never moved.
So here's the question:
Why don't we just drop everyone's DS by x-percentage just for entering the hunting area and scrap the rest of the system?
I can't see any real use for it, it'd achieve basically the same thing without causing as many gripes and best of all, it'd save server space!!!
--Fizzan's Player, forever invulnerable.
Indeed, if one critter swings at you in one room then you move to another and are swung upon again within 10 seconds, your DS suffers as if the two things were standing side by side and you never moved.
So here's the question:
Why don't we just drop everyone's DS by x-percentage just for entering the hunting area and scrap the rest of the system?
I can't see any real use for it, it'd achieve basically the same thing without causing as many gripes and best of all, it'd save server space!!!
--Fizzan's Player, forever invulnerable.
MALAFAXUS
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 08:41 PM CST
**
Why don't we just drop everyone's DS by x-percentage just for entering the hunting area and scrap the rest of the system?
**
That's actually a really good idea, and far less resource intensive than what I suggested. You'd just have to update the modifier whenever any player or monster enters or leaves the room. The only thing you wouldn't be able to do anymore is gang up on a single monster and get the bonus with a group even if the numbers aren't in your favor, which would work out just fine assuming the monsters are working together and not letting your group get in an opening to do that.
Even if they aren't, you could designate which monsters are actually allied with each other (something for the future friend or foe system, possibly), and work it out so that there can be more than two groups (players vs. one monster group vs. another monster group rather than players vs. monsters), where groups have either friendly, neutral, or hostile positions towards each other for the purposes of determining multi-opponent bonuses/penalties. Of course, if you wanted to take it to this level, things could potentially get very complicated, especially if player vs. player groups were to come into conflict with each other since you'd have to implement a system that determines what position player groups take towards each other.
Why don't we just drop everyone's DS by x-percentage just for entering the hunting area and scrap the rest of the system?
**
That's actually a really good idea, and far less resource intensive than what I suggested. You'd just have to update the modifier whenever any player or monster enters or leaves the room. The only thing you wouldn't be able to do anymore is gang up on a single monster and get the bonus with a group even if the numbers aren't in your favor, which would work out just fine assuming the monsters are working together and not letting your group get in an opening to do that.
Even if they aren't, you could designate which monsters are actually allied with each other (something for the future friend or foe system, possibly), and work it out so that there can be more than two groups (players vs. one monster group vs. another monster group rather than players vs. monsters), where groups have either friendly, neutral, or hostile positions towards each other for the purposes of determining multi-opponent bonuses/penalties. Of course, if you wanted to take it to this level, things could potentially get very complicated, especially if player vs. player groups were to come into conflict with each other since you'd have to implement a system that determines what position player groups take towards each other.
MANNC1
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat (respecatable hunting empaths thread)
11/30/2004 08:47 PM CST
>What qualifies one as a respectable hunting empath?
Oh gods, don't even go there. You won't get the same answer. :)
Odysia
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies, cannot stand."
Oh gods, don't even go there. You won't get the same answer. :)
Odysia
"No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and armies, cannot stand."
RUSS
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 09:18 PM CST
>In that case, my assumption is that if you ran by eight single creatures in eight different rooms and they all got a swing in, by the end of 10 seconds, you may as well be facing them all at once. And then if you end up in a room with 4 more creatures... well, it goes without saying that your only DS is from your spells at that point.
Case in point.
A frozen corpse swings a large ice pick at you!
AS: +282 vs DS: +311 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +29 = +29
A clean miss.
A dark shadow seems to detach itself from your body, swiftly dissipating into the air.
Northern Slopes, Arctic Track]
The snow is crusted into a brittle carapace with ice, marred here and there with stone outcrops that shine with a frozen veneer. To the wind's sighs and murmurs is added the occasional cry of a snowy owl high above, adding an eerie chord to the winter lullaby and echoing like a siren's call across the ocean waves. You also see a minor glacei.
Obvious paths: east, southwest
>e
A minor glacei lashes out at you!
AS: +242 vs DS: +262 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +68 = +78
A clean miss.
>
[Northern Slopes, Arctic Plateau]
To the north, a band of broken stones borders the snowy plateau like a final break-water against the savage grip of the tundra stretching away to the northern horizon. Snow and wind blast the rocks, leaving drifts in the lee of their southern faces. Pine-covered mountains provide a backdrop to the south, misted with fog and snowy clouds that drift across the peaks like ghostly barges on a dark green sea. You also see the Kriztian disk.
Obvious paths: west
>cli stone
You climb up some icy stones.
[Arctic Embankment]
The wind is a cruel master, reigning at the apex of the boulders with dangerous gusts spiked with needle-sharp ice and sleet. A sheath of ice covers the stones, making a perilous catwalk of the embankment's top. Wind screams its way over the jumble of rock and barrels against the mountains to the south in an endless onslaught. You also see a frozen corpse and a frozen corpse.
Obvious paths: north
>
A frozen corpse swings a large ice pick at you!
AS: +282 vs DS: +230 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +95 = +176
... and hits for 44 points of damage!
Strike connects with shoulder blade!
You are stunned for 2 rounds!
S>
A major glacei glides in, followed by a hailing icestorm!
S>
A frozen corpse swings a large ice pick at you!
AS: +282 vs DS: +176 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +62 = +197
... and hits for 56 points of damage!
Your left leg is mangled horribly.
You are knocked to the ground!
!SP>
A major glacei glides in, followed by a hailing icestorm!
!SP>
A major glacei glides in, followed by a hailing icestorm!
!SP>
A major glacei strikes at you!
AS: +254 vs DS: +142 with AvD: +37 + d100 roll: +8 = +157
... and hits for 16 points of damage!
Glancing strike to the head!
!SP>
A major glacei strikes at you!
AS: +254 vs DS: +162 with AvD: +37 + d100 roll: +23 = +152
... and hits for 11 points of damage!
Broken finger on your right hand!
!P>
A major glacei lashes out at you!
AS: +260 vs DS: +133 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +64 = +221
... and hits for 28 points of damage!
Blow to the kidneys.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around you.
The bright luminescence fades from around you.
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.
You feel less confident than before.
The deep blue glow leaves you.
The very powerful look leaves you.
The white light leaves you.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves you.
The powerful look leaves you.
The light blue glow leaves you.
The air calms down around you.
Case in point.
A frozen corpse swings a large ice pick at you!
AS: +282 vs DS: +311 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +29 = +29
A clean miss.
A dark shadow seems to detach itself from your body, swiftly dissipating into the air.
Northern Slopes, Arctic Track]
The snow is crusted into a brittle carapace with ice, marred here and there with stone outcrops that shine with a frozen veneer. To the wind's sighs and murmurs is added the occasional cry of a snowy owl high above, adding an eerie chord to the winter lullaby and echoing like a siren's call across the ocean waves. You also see a minor glacei.
Obvious paths: east, southwest
>e
A minor glacei lashes out at you!
AS: +242 vs DS: +262 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +68 = +78
A clean miss.
>
[Northern Slopes, Arctic Plateau]
To the north, a band of broken stones borders the snowy plateau like a final break-water against the savage grip of the tundra stretching away to the northern horizon. Snow and wind blast the rocks, leaving drifts in the lee of their southern faces. Pine-covered mountains provide a backdrop to the south, misted with fog and snowy clouds that drift across the peaks like ghostly barges on a dark green sea. You also see the Kriztian disk.
Obvious paths: west
>cli stone
You climb up some icy stones.
[Arctic Embankment]
The wind is a cruel master, reigning at the apex of the boulders with dangerous gusts spiked with needle-sharp ice and sleet. A sheath of ice covers the stones, making a perilous catwalk of the embankment's top. Wind screams its way over the jumble of rock and barrels against the mountains to the south in an endless onslaught. You also see a frozen corpse and a frozen corpse.
Obvious paths: north
>
A frozen corpse swings a large ice pick at you!
AS: +282 vs DS: +230 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +95 = +176
... and hits for 44 points of damage!
Strike connects with shoulder blade!
You are stunned for 2 rounds!
S>
A major glacei glides in, followed by a hailing icestorm!
S>
A frozen corpse swings a large ice pick at you!
AS: +282 vs DS: +176 with AvD: +29 + d100 roll: +62 = +197
... and hits for 56 points of damage!
Your left leg is mangled horribly.
You are knocked to the ground!
!SP>
A major glacei glides in, followed by a hailing icestorm!
!SP>
A major glacei glides in, followed by a hailing icestorm!
!SP>
A major glacei strikes at you!
AS: +254 vs DS: +142 with AvD: +37 + d100 roll: +8 = +157
... and hits for 16 points of damage!
Glancing strike to the head!
!SP>
A major glacei strikes at you!
AS: +254 vs DS: +162 with AvD: +37 + d100 roll: +23 = +152
... and hits for 11 points of damage!
Broken finger on your right hand!
!P>
A major glacei lashes out at you!
AS: +260 vs DS: +133 with AvD: +30 + d100 roll: +64 = +221
... and hits for 28 points of damage!
Blow to the kidneys.
The brilliant luminescence fades from around you.
The bright luminescence fades from around you.
The silvery luminescence fades from around you.
You feel less confident than before.
The deep blue glow leaves you.
The very powerful look leaves you.
The white light leaves you.
The tingling sensation and sense of security leaves you.
The powerful look leaves you.
The light blue glow leaves you.
The air calms down around you.
KEEFA
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 09:23 PM CST
Can we PLEASE cap this at offensive stance and let the run off affect EBP percent chance instead of EBP DS? Offensive stance DS is bad enough without tearing more off of it.
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
Kithus Norrak Faendryl and his dragon
A kobold points at you and yells, "Mine! Chasin!"
blink
You blink.
IMEGGMAN
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 09:32 PM CST
<<Can we PLEASE cap this at offensive stance and let the run off affect EBP percent chance instead of EBP DS? Offensive stance DS is bad enough without tearing more off of it.
Better yet, scrap this system entirely? The resources spent on this system could have been spent much better on other systems.
Player of Balthon
Better yet, scrap this system entirely? The resources spent on this system could have been spent much better on other systems.
Player of Balthon
FIZZAN
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 10:16 PM CST
<<The resources spent on this system could have been spent much better on other systems.
Player of Balthon>>
I might have to disagree with you on that point-- seems as if this thing was really simple to design. (In other words, I hope for someone's sake that they didn't spend a whole lot of time programming this.)
Basically, you've got a ten second timer that starts when a single creature swings at you. If another creature, regardless of what room its in or whether it was invisible or not, takes a swing, your DS is lowered by the whole 25% per creature.
If it really were ab out Multi-Opponent Combat, I'd agree that it took a lot of work. As it stands, it's a half-hearted attempt at a half-hearted engagement system.
If you really want to do it right, make MoC excessively cheap to train in and give every profession enough to train away 3 extra creatures worth by the time they cap (i.e. 1 rank per training, everyone can afford it with their new points and everyone sees the same base effects). From there, you increase the number of ranks a Warrior can pick up and tweak the mstrike capabilities.
You can't just throw something into the game that's based on a skill only trained in by those physical characters who choose to use mstrike-- not a system as overwhelming as this one, at any rate.
Peer all you want and pick your battles as you may-- just don't run through crowded rooms without taking a ten second pause and you'll be alright.
By the same token, don't get RT or a stun-- you are the veritable critter fodder at that point.
--Fizzan's Player
Player of Balthon>>
I might have to disagree with you on that point-- seems as if this thing was really simple to design. (In other words, I hope for someone's sake that they didn't spend a whole lot of time programming this.)
Basically, you've got a ten second timer that starts when a single creature swings at you. If another creature, regardless of what room its in or whether it was invisible or not, takes a swing, your DS is lowered by the whole 25% per creature.
If it really were ab out Multi-Opponent Combat, I'd agree that it took a lot of work. As it stands, it's a half-hearted attempt at a half-hearted engagement system.
If you really want to do it right, make MoC excessively cheap to train in and give every profession enough to train away 3 extra creatures worth by the time they cap (i.e. 1 rank per training, everyone can afford it with their new points and everyone sees the same base effects). From there, you increase the number of ranks a Warrior can pick up and tweak the mstrike capabilities.
You can't just throw something into the game that's based on a skill only trained in by those physical characters who choose to use mstrike-- not a system as overwhelming as this one, at any rate.
Peer all you want and pick your battles as you may-- just don't run through crowded rooms without taking a ten second pause and you'll be alright.
By the same token, don't get RT or a stun-- you are the veritable critter fodder at that point.
--Fizzan's Player
TINKIN
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
11/30/2004 11:55 PM CST
<<Can we PLEASE cap this at offensive stance and let the run off affect EBP percent chance instead of EBP DS?>>
Let me get this right: being Stunned still allows you to E/B/P, regardless of your stance (based on the way various critters still manage to evade my Bolts whilst Stunned, in RT and E-waved to the floor); being outnumbered seems worse...does being multi-tagged whilst in offensive stance affect your E/B/P chances worse than being Stunned?
There has to be a better system for MOC than this, surely?
Let me get this right: being Stunned still allows you to E/B/P, regardless of your stance (based on the way various critters still manage to evade my Bolts whilst Stunned, in RT and E-waved to the floor); being outnumbered seems worse...does being multi-tagged whilst in offensive stance affect your E/B/P chances worse than being Stunned?
There has to be a better system for MOC than this, surely?
MYWIZARD
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
12/01/2004 12:29 AM CST
I'm afraid of the bad ideas to come so I guess I'll just cancel my accounts now and save myself from the worry of having all my hard work thrown away because of some stupid new idea to "balance" the game.
LORDLIMPER
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
12/01/2004 12:49 AM CST
<< I'm afraid of the bad ideas to come so I guess I'll just cancel my accounts now and save myself from the worry of having all my hard work thrown away because of some stupid new idea to "balance" the game. >>
System has been out less than 4 hours....
Ron
If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your face.
System has been out less than 4 hours....
Ron
If you must mount the gallows, give a jest to the crowd, a coin to the hangman, and make the drop with a smile on your face.
BOGARRAGOB
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
12/01/2004 01:45 AM CST
>>System has been out less than 4 hours....
And? It doesn't take people years to see that they don't like something. I personaly don't like it from just reading it. And my concerns are further confirmed by seeing examples of it at work.
Gemstone's combat is not set up for an engagement type system. Yet they are adding one in half way. There is something flawed with that. And the fact that MOC is so high in cost for pures. ITs not a pure skill, its not meant to be trained in by pures.
So why are we being forced to? This new system, while probaly good in the head of the one who created it, wasn't implemented right. Costs, retreating are all factors that need to be considered. Since I can now die more easily, even if the creature is dead or its not in the same room, then I expect to have an pretty decent chance in training it off.
Though pure's can not get the required MOC without sacrificing magical skills in areas. Or being a mutant swinging/physical pure.
And yes I got all this in less then 4 hours, will I cancel? Probaly, but I am holding out for 730 or at least until my new computer arrives. Which 2/3rds of the packges are arrving on the 2nd, with the 3rd and most important one not assigned a date yet by ups.
~Jeff
Why do people look at the name ascendent, and say the first syllable, or part of it makes me look like something? As hardly means what the try to make it be, and only proves their level of maturity is low, and besides the first part is ascend
And? It doesn't take people years to see that they don't like something. I personaly don't like it from just reading it. And my concerns are further confirmed by seeing examples of it at work.
Gemstone's combat is not set up for an engagement type system. Yet they are adding one in half way. There is something flawed with that. And the fact that MOC is so high in cost for pures. ITs not a pure skill, its not meant to be trained in by pures.
So why are we being forced to? This new system, while probaly good in the head of the one who created it, wasn't implemented right. Costs, retreating are all factors that need to be considered. Since I can now die more easily, even if the creature is dead or its not in the same room, then I expect to have an pretty decent chance in training it off.
Though pure's can not get the required MOC without sacrificing magical skills in areas. Or being a mutant swinging/physical pure.
And yes I got all this in less then 4 hours, will I cancel? Probaly, but I am holding out for 730 or at least until my new computer arrives. Which 2/3rds of the packges are arrving on the 2nd, with the 3rd and most important one not assigned a date yet by ups.
~Jeff
Why do people look at the name ascendent, and say the first syllable, or part of it makes me look like something? As hardly means what the try to make it be, and only proves their level of maturity is low, and besides the first part is ascend
ASTERIX
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
12/01/2004 02:05 AM CST
I've thought about this, I haven't tested it. My first thoughts...
"WHAT ARE THEY THINKING..." That was followed by: "Well, I normally don't square off agaisnt more than 2. 3 Critters engage me and I'm headin for the hills." But I continued thinking... These are my gripes.
1) A dead critter is dead. My character is VERY well trained. A dagger in the eye will drop everything, and if I'm in a room with multiple critters... sure, that critter MIGHT have swung at me within a 10 second time frame, but the moment I slam a dagger in its to the hilt... its not going to rise. I'd be spinning, and facing the remaining critters. That dead one isn't going to be a factor.
2) A stunned critter is stunned. I may not know the duration of the stun, but I know for a second or three I don't have to worry about that one either. Again, dead critter applies. Back of my head, I know he's there, but I know he ain't movin.
3) Passing through... hate to say it, but a character CAN and DOES accrue a lot of attacks by merely walking from place to place. I'd implement a 'bubble' if you would... pass into a room and get attacked, and pass out of it within say, 2 seconds... then the attack doesn't count. It shouldn't. OR put in mechanics that a character can't be attacked unless its been in the critter's view for 'x' amount of seconds, 2-3 works. This would prevent the character from being penalized... but also puts in potential for abuse. A second mechanic would need to be put in place. If a character enters the same room more than once within 'y' seconds then the character should automatically be attacked. ;)
Something needs to be done especially regarding travelling. Cads can get attacked moving from the North Gate of the Landing to the entrance of trollfang by 3+ roltons alone. That goes for virtually every 'area' of the game, just by walking through. By the time I get to my hunting area, its very easy to have gone over 5 attacks in a ten second time frame by things that stand NO chance of hitting me, and then get smacked HARD the moment MY prey enters my view... doesn't make much sense.
I understand you're going for realism. But realism has its place... and you can't go halfway. Dead critters are dead... stunned ones should fall out of the equation... and a critter that has no chance at all of hitting me (like roltons) shouldn't factor into the equation either.
~James
"WHAT ARE THEY THINKING..." That was followed by: "Well, I normally don't square off agaisnt more than 2. 3 Critters engage me and I'm headin for the hills." But I continued thinking... These are my gripes.
1) A dead critter is dead. My character is VERY well trained. A dagger in the eye will drop everything, and if I'm in a room with multiple critters... sure, that critter MIGHT have swung at me within a 10 second time frame, but the moment I slam a dagger in its to the hilt... its not going to rise. I'd be spinning, and facing the remaining critters. That dead one isn't going to be a factor.
2) A stunned critter is stunned. I may not know the duration of the stun, but I know for a second or three I don't have to worry about that one either. Again, dead critter applies. Back of my head, I know he's there, but I know he ain't movin.
3) Passing through... hate to say it, but a character CAN and DOES accrue a lot of attacks by merely walking from place to place. I'd implement a 'bubble' if you would... pass into a room and get attacked, and pass out of it within say, 2 seconds... then the attack doesn't count. It shouldn't. OR put in mechanics that a character can't be attacked unless its been in the critter's view for 'x' amount of seconds, 2-3 works. This would prevent the character from being penalized... but also puts in potential for abuse. A second mechanic would need to be put in place. If a character enters the same room more than once within 'y' seconds then the character should automatically be attacked. ;)
Something needs to be done especially regarding travelling. Cads can get attacked moving from the North Gate of the Landing to the entrance of trollfang by 3+ roltons alone. That goes for virtually every 'area' of the game, just by walking through. By the time I get to my hunting area, its very easy to have gone over 5 attacks in a ten second time frame by things that stand NO chance of hitting me, and then get smacked HARD the moment MY prey enters my view... doesn't make much sense.
I understand you're going for realism. But realism has its place... and you can't go halfway. Dead critters are dead... stunned ones should fall out of the equation... and a critter that has no chance at all of hitting me (like roltons) shouldn't factor into the equation either.
~James
CLINTMIRE
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
12/01/2004 05:30 AM CST
From what I am reading here it appears that it could be more dangerous running away from danger than standing and fighting. By standing you are at least able to judge critter round times. By running you could encounter a critter in each room that swings at you as you pass through, thereby lowing your DS. Maybe just staying at the inn and drinking is the solution.
Isle Goatherder
By the way, I have had not the chance to test this new system since I am sitting at a table trying to migrate 30 points of cm so I can try cut throat. Of course by the time I get enough points to try cut throat, the thirty day trial period will have expired and it will take me another 30 days to untrain it if I don't like it. Have I mentioned how much I hate the new CM migration periods?
Isle Goatherder
By the way, I have had not the chance to test this new system since I am sitting at a table trying to migrate 30 points of cm so I can try cut throat. Of course by the time I get enough points to try cut throat, the thirty day trial period will have expired and it will take me another 30 days to untrain it if I don't like it. Have I mentioned how much I hate the new CM migration periods?
CELTARLOMION
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
12/01/2004 08:41 AM CST
Would be nice if they offered a holiday "Fixskill" since the changes to combat have me twitching to change how I trained almost all of my characters. :/
Jim
Jim
GARYBME
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
12/01/2004 11:27 AM CST
>>If you leap solo into a group of 4 monsters that are all supposedly on par with you, you should get beat down. Just because a system makes the game more difficult doesn't necessarily mean that it's a bad thing.<<
We are powerful heroes that need to kill hundreds of "like level" monsters to go up each level. These creatures are not supposed to be "on par" with us. If they were, we'd need a lot more deeds.
>>Let me get this right: being Stunned still allows you to E/B/P, regardless of your stance (based on the way various critters still manage to evade my Bolts whilst Stunned, in RT and E-waved to the floor); being outnumbered seems worse...does being multi-tagged whilst in offensive stance affect your E/B/P chances worse than being Stunned?<<
As presented, the system does not reduce your chance to E/B/P an incoming attack, but after passing offensive, it does start taking away the DS derived from E/B/P. That is, the 75% of your dodge bonuses (dodge ranks+stats+magic dodge bonus), the 50% of your shield bonuses, and the 20% of your parry bonuses you have in offensive stance. If you don't have DS spells, that doesn't leave you with much (armor bonus?).
I'm normally very willing to try changes before I judge them, but I see this as having a really big downside with very little upside.
Gary
We are powerful heroes that need to kill hundreds of "like level" monsters to go up each level. These creatures are not supposed to be "on par" with us. If they were, we'd need a lot more deeds.
>>Let me get this right: being Stunned still allows you to E/B/P, regardless of your stance (based on the way various critters still manage to evade my Bolts whilst Stunned, in RT and E-waved to the floor); being outnumbered seems worse...does being multi-tagged whilst in offensive stance affect your E/B/P chances worse than being Stunned?<<
As presented, the system does not reduce your chance to E/B/P an incoming attack, but after passing offensive, it does start taking away the DS derived from E/B/P. That is, the 75% of your dodge bonuses (dodge ranks+stats+magic dodge bonus), the 50% of your shield bonuses, and the 20% of your parry bonuses you have in offensive stance. If you don't have DS spells, that doesn't leave you with much (armor bonus?).
I'm normally very willing to try changes before I judge them, but I see this as having a really big downside with very little upside.
Gary
RANDOMONE1
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
12/01/2004 12:11 PM CST
>and I hope very much that if someone does this that they get murdered often by those they've killed.
But this IS a policy violation, where as our Mass spells aren't. Bring on the Meteors.
-C
Ice is nice.
But this IS a policy violation, where as our Mass spells aren't. Bring on the Meteors.
-C
Ice is nice.
MAXMANJ
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
12/01/2004 12:39 PM CST
<< But this IS a policy violation, where as our Mass spells aren't. Bring on the Meteors. >>
Actually, it's not a violation. If someone kills me, I have the right to exact revenge and kill them once. If they use mass spells and kill 6 people, they should be killed 6 times. Once each.
Josh
Actually, it's not a violation. If someone kills me, I have the right to exact revenge and kill them once. If they use mass spells and kill 6 people, they should be killed 6 times. Once each.
Josh
SILVERPHOENIX21
Re: RSN: Multi-Opponent Combat
12/01/2004 12:47 PM CST
>Theres like only 3 well 2 good respectable hunting empaths left...
Avidleigh.
Avidleigh.
