Two new Arcane Circle spells have been released into the treasure system to be found in magic items and scrolls.

1708 - Mystic Impedance
Duration: 180 seconds
Type: Attack

This spell impedes the target's ability to cast high level spells. The total number of spell levels restricted in this manner is based on the caster's Arcane Symbols or Magic Item Use skill, depending on the method of activation. The top-level restriction is calculated according to (20 - summation seed 1 of (caster's ranks/2)). For example, a caster with 50 Magic Item Use ranks waving a smooth amber wand at a target will cause it to be unable to cast spells of level 14 or higher.

This spell can commonly be found in smooth amber wands.


1720 - Arcane Barrier
Duration: 1800 seconds; refreshable
Type: Defense

Arcane Barrier surrounds its caster in an anti-magic barrier that grants them immunity to targeted low level offensive spells. The highest spell level nullified in this manner is based on the caster's Arcane Symbols or Magic Item Use skill, depending on the method of activation. The caster becomes immune to spells of level (3 + (caster's ranks/25)) and lower. For example, a caster with 50 Magic Item Use ranks rubbing a crystalline prism becomes immune to spells of level 5 and lower.

This spell can commonly be found in crystalline prisms.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

Arcane barrier... WOW. I'll be in the lab, looking for a way to break this one :-)

Thanks for the new toys guys!

---

27 authors on ignore and counting.

>>I assume spell 1708 is CS based.

The mechanic works similar to Sounds - auto success up to a certain margin above the caster's level, then there's a % chance of failure until you get far above the level of the caster, then it's just auto failure.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

>>Does it only work against targetted effects, or can you be immune to untargetted effects as well?

From the spell description: "Arcane Barrier surrounds its caster in an anti-magic barrier that grants them immunity to targeted low level offensive spells."

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

Echoing Keleborrn's kudos. Can't wait to try these out.

Mandy

I'm going to go ahead and not jump on the cheerleader bandwagon. I give these spells a great big "boo" and a "ugh"

I kinda get annoyed, I guess, when spells are designed specifically to be used to squares, critters, and for CvC or PvP.

1708, being based on pure level comparison. Is just another version of CMAN killpure, it seems mostly made to benefit rogues (and critters), which I guess is typical considering...

In a way it is just like 703, only unwardable, and with 20x the duration. That seems fair, for our professional spell to be so very weak in comparison to the generic arcane circle, which as stated by GMs is supposed to be weaker than other circles. I betcha ithzir don't have immunity to it either.

But that is besides the point. NO critter lives for 180 seconds after engagement, it doesn't happen. Having such a long duration must therefor ONLY be meant for use against players, which means it is only meant to benefit critters and semi or square professions engaging in CvC or PvP, especially those who can hide... So supposing there was some conflict anyone can wave a wand at a wizard or sorcerer, and if they're within level range, get a guaranteed hit, and then hide, and no 410, 912, 911, 709, no way to get the person out of hiding. I want a spell that makes squares unable to swing or do cmans for 3 minutes, that'd be fun. RSN?

Then of course, critters, who honestly seem to be the primary beneficiary of this spell. If you're hunting for experience any critter that casts this spell is probably going to have a near 100% chance to hit you, since it is level based, and then you get to go and sit twidling your thumbs, or doing something else with them entirely, for 3 minutes. Whereas squares, semis, and even many clerics and empaths, can keep on weapon hunting. Ye olde real-pures (wizards and sorcerers) get to have a timeout.

If, this spell was not designed to be used so, it would have never been giving a duration so long as to be extraneous in any player vs. critter scenario. It is obvious this was meant to be player vs. player or critter vs player. Which, is annoying.

Then we have 1720, which seems woefully underpowered compared to 1708. At 202 ranks 1708 will knock you down 43 levels in spells, nothing between 7 and 50. At 202 ranks 1720 will get you up to level 11. This is not balanced.

So, again, what is the use of 1720? If you're a pure, and this time I'm including the pretend pures (clerics and empaths) you are not vulnerable at all to spells under level 11. The spells that hurt you, or seriously hinder your hunting are dispels (17+) and manuever spells (spike, boil, implosion, maybe a DC against 2 or 3 critters in the game) which are 16+, so no protection there. Otherwise your defenses are generally high enough (outside of invasions and or serious up hunting) not to be bothered.

In contrast, of course, semis and squares are sometimes more vulnerable to lower level attack spells which critters predominantly cast, making this an immunity spell for them. Sure... they need 202 ranks in MIU, but it isn't as if I were to max out my CM training I would be immune to CMANs, not even close.

And of course, unlike spells like 115, which again, is not in the supposedly weaker arcane circle, this spell lasts for a duration, not a single cast.

In fact, the only use I can see for 1720 for a pure, is going to be blocking 1708. Which means just to maintain my current levels of effectiveness, I now to need procure and use a new spell. This is no improvement, this is no bonus, this is just giving with one hand and taking with another.

So ya, yay for designing spells for squares, yay for designing spells for critters, but see if you ask for one cman to be designed for pures...

It doesn't even make sense, by the way, for it to block area spells. Suppose you had enough miu, you could block meteor swarm theoretically, so what... mystical umbrella? How does it block ewaves? Mystical surfboards?

And 1708... seriously... it blocks high spells but not low spells? That seems like a rather obviously made decision considering how useful it would have been to pures to block high level spells. Can't have that though...

Virilneus
Fix Sorcerer Training Costs
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/05/14/sorcerer-training-costs/
Math Doesn't Lie.
Give Sorcerers Minor Mental
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/07/05/give-sorcerers-minor-mental/

oh, and yes, I know not everyone can even get to 202 ranks in miu etc, before someone decides to be a hero and correct me on that. It doesn't matter, seed summations being as they are, most of the benefit is attained at lower ranks. And merely maxing out your training for a semi or square will give you enough.

But then of course critters I imagine can have any amount of ranks the GM wants them to.


Virilneus
Fix Sorcerer Training Costs
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/05/14/sorcerer-training-costs/
Math Doesn't Lie.
Give Sorcerers Minor Mental
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/07/05/give-sorcerers-minor-mental/

>Do critters even cast arcane circle spells? I thought it was meant for trinkets only. I can't recall having ever seen a creature cast any arcane circle spell.

To point, some critters have cast arcane spells longer than us players have had access to them.

Secondly, very few critters have been worked on or created since the 1700s were released. So of course they aren't very popular, right now.

Do you expect that not to change?



Virilneus
Fix Sorcerer Training Costs
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/05/14/sorcerer-training-costs/
Math Doesn't Lie.
Give Sorcerers Minor Mental
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/07/05/give-sorcerers-minor-mental/

>>So is Arcane Barrier the reason why spells under level 10 can't be cast in the Scatter, because the critters are all wearing it?

No. That's an inherent ability of the liches in the Scatter. No other creatures there should operate like that, though.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

I'm gonna have to agree with Virilneus on this one. An item that has an automatic chance to prevent me from casting spells above level 20 at like-level is more than a bit broken. I spend a ridiculous amount of training to master a circle that high, and now there's a spell 42 levels lower that can automatically prevent me from casting regeneration? What's the rationale behind a level 8 arcane spell trumping every level 20+ spell in the game? Try adding an ability that makes it impossible to swing any weapon with a bonus over +20 for three minutes and see how well that goes over.

I think 1708 will be most useful to runestaff users other than Sorcerers, who already have 703. If wands are generated by the treasure system based on spell level, then 708 wands should be just as plentiful as oaken wands.

And I think 1720 will be most useful to the non-magical professions. After an initial introductory period, 1720 prisms and scrolls may be fairly rare, much like other level 20 spells, so don't count on having it available constantly.

Virilneus

1708, being based on pure level comparison. Is just another version of CMAN killpure, it seems mostly made to benefit rogues (and critters), which I guess is typical considering...

I'm not sure how having an attack that cuts through a target's magical defense is the same thing as having a spell that prevents a target from casting a subset of spells.

Virilneus

In a way it is just like 703, only unwardable, and with 20x the duration. That seems fair, for our professional spell to be so very weak in comparison to the generic arcane circle, which as stated by GMs is supposed to be weaker than other circles. I betcha ithzir don't have immunity to it either.

The only advantage that Mystic Impedance has over Corrupt Essence is the the fact it doesn't requiring a warding. For a majority of sorcerers, this is a moot benefit since they don't have trouble warding like level targets with 703 (especially given the TD pushdown). The Ithzir immunity that you may experience is not reflective of general sorcery. In additional, a spell that prevents a caster from using a subset of their spells is not weaker than a spell that prevents a caster from using any spell.

Virilneus

But that is besides the point. NO critter lives for 180 seconds after engagement, it doesn't happen. Having such a long duration must therefor ONLY be meant for use against players, which means it is only meant to benefit critters and semi or square professions engaging in CvC or PvP, especially those who can hide... So supposing there was some conflict anyone can wave a wand at a wizard or sorcerer, and if they're within level range, get a guaranteed hit, and then hide, and no 410, 912, 911, 709, no way to get the person out of hiding. I want a spell that makes squares unable to swing or do cmans for 3 minutes, that'd be fun. RSN?

Then of course, critters, who honestly seem to be the primary beneficiary of this spell. If you're hunting for experience any critter that casts this spell is probably going to have a near 100% chance to hit you, since it is level based, and then you get to go and sit twidling your thumbs, or doing something else with them entirely, for 3 minutes. Whereas squares, semis, and even many clerics and empaths, can keep on weapon hunting. Ye olde real-pures (wizards and sorcerers) get to have a timeout.

If, this spell was not designed to be used so, it would have never been giving a duration so long as to be extraneous in any player vs. critter scenario. It is obvious this was meant to be player vs. player or critter vs player. Which, is annoying.

We do not design or balance spells for PvP. If we did, Implosion (along with many other spells) would have been adjusted a long time ago. So while the duration may hurt you if a creature casts the spell (which no creature currently does and while they could potentially in the future, such creatures would be an extreme minority given the number of all creatures in the game), you're not helpless. You can still cast spells to attack. And as always, you can usually prevent the creature from casting first (players have much more success with first strike than creatures given the limitations of AI).

Virilneus

In contrast, of course, semis and squares are sometimes more vulnerable to lower level attack spells which critters predominantly cast, making this an immunity spell for them. Sure... they need 202 ranks in MIU, but it isn't as if I were to max out my CM training I would be immune to CMANs, not even close.

Just as Squares and Semi can train better to defend against to CMANs, Pures can train more to better to defend against spells. Any case you make for a Square or Semi getting potential spell immunity (by always having 1720 active and casting 1708 at every creature they encounter), it will always be easier for a Pure to achieve due to training paths and cost.

Virilneus

So ya, yay for designing spells for squares, yay for designing spells for critters, but see if you ask for one cman to be designed for pures...

Like Cunning Defense?

Virilneus

It doesn't even make sense, by the way, for it to block area spells. Suppose you had enough miu, you could block meteor swarm theoretically, so what... mystical umbrella? How does it block ewaves? Mystical surfboards?

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=102&category=18&topic=18&message=375

{From the spell description: "Arcane Barrier surrounds its caster in an anti-magic barrier that grants them immunity to targeted low level offensive spells."} - GameMaster Oscuro

KARDIOS

If wands are generated by the treasure system based on spell level, then 708 wands should be just as plentiful as oaken wands.

Most arcane trinkets are less common than other magical items that drop in the treasure system. The exception being spells that existed before, but we moved to the Arcane circle (Mystic Focus, Spirit Guard, etc). Specifically, we didn't want to adjust the existing drop rate of quartz orbs, small statues, etc.

GameMaster Estild
Cleric/Empath Team

Who remembers the old 115?

It would stun you for a minimum of 3 seconds per level, even on 101 endrolls.

So if you were level 100 you could put people in a 5 minute stun, even on a 101 endroll.

It was eventually decided that it was ridiculous for a status affect so easily obtained to last for so long, and was done away with.

115 at least required a warding roll, 1708... notsomuch.

It should have a skill check of some sort, if you don't want to use TD, and it should have a sliding duration based on the result of that roll.




Virilneus
Fix Sorcerer Training Costs
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/05/14/sorcerer-training-costs/
Math Doesn't Lie.
Give Sorcerers Minor Mental
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/07/05/give-sorcerers-minor-mental/

>>It should have a skill check of some sort, if you don't want to use TD, and it should have a sliding duration based on the result of that roll.

The effectiveness of the spell already requires a skill check. We didn't want to use the warding system because players won't have ranks in the 1700s circle, so their CS would be rather low. Instead, it works like Sounds and Powersink (1203), comparable debuffs.

I honestly don't understand what your problem is with this spell - it's blatantly weaker in effect than Silence or Corrupt Essence. It's just stronger in duration to compensate for that weakness.

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

<<Yes, we design spells for creatures frequently. They even have their own spell circle.>>

Tangent: Like a regular spell circle? Would knowledge of spell enhancives be possible for the critter circle?

-Keleborrn.

>The effectiveness of the spell already requires a skill check. We didn't want to use the warding system because players won't have ranks in the 1700s circle, so their CS would be rather low. Instead, it works like Sounds and Powersink (1203), comparable debuffs.

Why would the CS issue be an issue unless it was designed for CvC?

I'm sure I don't need to tell you that critter TDs are now defined on a per circle basis. This is what allows bards to be the new sorcerers, etc.

You could also, have a pushdown.

Now... you say it requires a skill check? Does it? Or do you mean a level check? If it requires a skill check, which skill must I train in to increase my defense against it?

>I honestly don't understand what your problem is with this spell - it's blatantly weaker in effect than Silence or Corrupt Essence. It's just stronger in duration to compensate for that weakness.

Now you're just being funny.

If I cast 703 on something I basically only prevent it from casting it's next spell, but of course first I have to hit it, which is no small feat to begin with. So for one round it doesn't cast a spell, for the next round it preps the spell, goes through cast RT, then the short duration expires, and the spell can be immediately cast. Forget, which prevents spells from being prepped, was much better, because a critter couldn't prep until the duration was over. Nevermind the fact that 20% of 703's duration is eaten up by the Cast RT from casting the spell in the first place, thus really giving you only 12 seconds of playtime.

1708 has a duration 2000% as long. And while it may not block minor fire and tonis, it blocks things people actually care about blocking, like FI, and spike thorn, and boil earth, and dispels.

Quite frankly Oscuro, if you gave me an unlimited use 1708 wand, and I know you really want to, I would never, ever, ever, ever use 703 again.

Insisting that 703 is better just shows how out of touch you are with sorcery. Not that you need to be in touch with us, you're not out guru certainly... if you were I'm sure all our problems would be fixed, because you're nothing if not productive.


Virilneus
Fix Sorcerer Training Costs
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/05/14/sorcerer-training-costs/
Math Doesn't Lie.
Give Sorcerers Minor Mental
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/07/05/give-sorcerers-minor-mental/

>Most creatures are dead by the time Corrupt Essence wears off, so the extended duration of Mystic Impedance is of little benefit.

Incorrect Estild.

703 buys you so little time you're really only guaranteed 1 cast, maybe 2 if you're really quick. If you're able to kill something so quickly, 703 becomes irrelevant, why not just kill the thing to begin with?

703 is useful in cases where you cannot kill quickly, so, to specifically refute your point, on any critter which you would want to use 703 on, the duration is not near long enough.

Though I do like you admitting the fact that critters tend to die quickly... so why, pray tell, does 1708 need 3 full minutes again?


Virilneus
Fix Sorcerer Training Costs
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/05/14/sorcerer-training-costs/
Math Doesn't Lie.
Give Sorcerers Minor Mental
http://www.virilneus.com/blog/2009/07/05/give-sorcerers-minor-mental/

>>Why would the CS issue be an issue unless it was designed for CvC?

>>I'm sure I don't need to tell you that critter TDs are now defined on a per circle basis. This is what allows bards to be the new sorcerers, etc.

Because then we'd have to calculate and set TDs for hundreds of creatures just for this one spell as there are no 1700s warding spells yet. And it wouldn't be appropriate to create such a system, as there aren't spells that would defend against Arcane TD specifically like there are versus ETD, STD and, eventually, MTD.

>>Now... you say it requires a skill check? Does it? Or do you mean a level check? If it requires a skill check, which skill must I train in to increase my defense against it?

It requires a skill check to use effectively. If you wave with only 8 ranks of MIU, you can only prevent level 18 spells on up. That's a very small subset of spells. But with 202 ranks, you can prevent spells level 7 and up. That's a substantial change in effectiveness of the spell. However, it's still not going to prevent all spells like 703, 210, etc.

>>1708 has a duration 2000% as long.

I didn't realize 703 lasted only 9 seconds. I think you mean 1200%, or, less emphatically, but more easy to visualize - 12 times as long.

If you'd like to consider nerfing a spell that's been out for less than 24 hours and is really only castable by players (at least for the forseeable future), I'll gladly consider it.

>>Quite frankly Oscuro, if you gave me an unlimited use 1708 wand, and I know you really want to, I would never, ever, ever, ever use 703 again.

It's not hard. Find a smooth amber wand and then get your Wizard friend to charge it up whenever you need more charges. I'm glad you like the spell enough to use it.

>>Insisting that 703 is better just shows how out of touch you are with sorcery. Not that you need to be in touch with us, you're not out guru certainly... if you were I'm sure all our problems would be fixed, because you're nothing if not productive.

Thank you?

= - GM Oscuro - =

Rogue Team
Cleric/Empath Team

<<It's real in that they have spell #s just like player accessible ones. But, no, there won't be spell enhancives for them. Most of the spells aren't coded so that players could cast them and the we'd need to do even more updates for that to occur than had to be done to get the Arcane Circle available (and that was a lot).>>

Ah. The momentary daydream of a strange FFV blue mage type character in GS was amusing at least.

-Keleborrn.

Since arcane trinkets are so rare, could you make green coral wands and such non-crumbly?