>You've said no to a perception buff, which I can't understand why you'd flat out say that.

In short, because I believe Warrior Mages' answer to stealth should be to nuke the area around them until nothing moves and have no real intention of giving them fine-grained tools for stealth.

-Z

> In short, because I believe Warrior Mages' answer to stealth should be to nuke the area around them until nothing moves

It's the onyl way to be sure.

Nuclear Launch Detected.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

Tiltowait is an awesome spell concept.

---

"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl

>>In short, because I believe Warrior Mages' answer to stealth should be to nuke the area around them until nothing moves and have no real intention of giving them fine-grained tools for stealth.<<

In that case, wtb either some spell or feat that can allow an AOE to miss visible targets or a change to PvP policy to make situations where bystanders happen to be collateral damage no-GM. Sort of a "Loiter at your own peril" clause.

>>In that case, wtb either some spell or feat that can allow an AOE to miss visible targets...

I like this suggestion. In addition to CAST AREA(everything) and CAST ENGAGE(things engaged to you), spending a metaslot to gain access to a CAST OBSCURE(everything else in the room that isn't visible) option would be pretty sweet.

The problem with CAST ENGAGE against stealth users is that someone in stealth could technically not be engaged to you but could be preparing a pretty deadly attack against you. In this situation CAST AREA would be idea; however when other people are in the room this option is impossible unless you get them all to join you. This is also ignoring the fact that a stealth user can STALK you in order to be immune to the CAST ENGAGE option.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

What impact will this have on Analogous Pattern spells that i have learned? I'd hate to have to find the scrolls again if I lose the spells that I have already learned.


Freedom isn't Free, I paid for it.....in combat

>>I was going to suggest the same thing actually, but I think we should just gain access to it as part of our guild sphere, or all magic prime should. Perhaps it should be based on something else, for the ability to identify all the possible obscure places in a room though, but once you get to that point you'd be able to tell almost always. Guess it would be a contest a little bit to, but favored in the mages side... only so many places to hide in an area.

I think you guys asking for something to help target Stealthy opponents are missing the point. Warrior Mages do not have stealth as part of their sphere. Thus abilities that allow you with it will likely not be coming. Just look at the comments on RM, that it's kind of an, "eh, no way around it".

---

TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.

-- Aether Manipulation --

>>Aether is being removed as a damaging spellbook because it doesn't exactly fit the lore particularly well to do so. Damage spells that used to be in Aether will appear elsewhere, so do not fret.

Soo what exactly is the lore if you can share? Is it just warding, and some sort of augmentation?

>>Ethereal Shield:
>>An introductory Aether Warding spell. It protects from splash damage caused by Warrior Mage spells, as well as provides a damage mitigator versus elemental damage only.

By this I hope it means that if any spell does fire damage, even if it is holy fire that we get some protection, even if it isn't as much as it would be if it was fire fire.

>>Aether Cloak:
>>An esoteric cyclic Aether Warding spell. It provides a barrier versus TM spells only (think Shear-like here) with the effect that if Aether Cloak wins, the TM spell is instead reflected at its full strength back at the caster. If it loses, the spell is weakened by the power of the Cloak but goes through. The barrier does not ablate as it takes hits. The Cloak hinders the caster's own TM spells as badly as outside spells, but they cannot hurt themselves.


Sounds cool, does it have to hinder our spells just as badly? That last part sounds like something every other guild that had a spell like this would have, but not necessarily a warrior mage.


>>Ethereal Fissure:
>>An advanced Aether Augmentation spell. It increases the Elemental mana in the room which it is cast for a time. The boost no longer degrades over time and a separate cast will replace rather than increase the fissure.

Sounds like a great change, hope the duration stays about the same or increases.

>>(Unnamed new spell)
>>A basic Aether Augmentation spell. It improves the caster's skill at targeting magic.

This is in addition to pathways or a replacement?

-- Electric Manipulation --

>>Arc Light:
>>An advanced Electric Debilitation spell. Magic vs. Reflex. It will stun the target, do non-lethal damage to their head, and ignite naphtha.

Not sure how that contest will work out, but overall improvements to the spell specially if it ignites naphtha easy. As it is now it really doesn't work to ignite. Though I think that all electrical spells that can be inflicted at a target, should have a chance at igniting naphtha. This should be a perk of the electrical/fire spells, and not really count towards the spell slots. (as there is no point to naphtha if it can't be ignited)

>>Tingle:
>>An advanced Electric Debilitation spell. Magic vs. Fortitude. It will debuff the target's Reflex and Agility.

You've got to keep the item drop in at least for critters.

>>Static Discharge:
>>Candidate for Removal due to obsolescence with other WM disablers. Discharged Ethereal Shields no longer exist or are needed.

Please don't remove this spell, it is one of my most used spells through out my career. If you really have to, a casting technique to add nerve damage to a spell would be awesome. I use this spell a lot to help train, for fun, for crowd control. It is very useful for a ton of different reasons. I actually quit DR when this spell was broken many years ago, that and tingle not really working.

>>Lightning Bolt:
>>An advanced Electric Targeted spell. It will be a shield-ignoring TM spell.

Sounds the same minus nerve damage... I like nerve damage.

>>Chain Lightning:
>>An esoteric Electric Targeted spell. It will strike everything in the area (or everything engaged to you, whichever you prefer) once. It can be generally targeted without need for a specific target.


So basically a removal of the multi-shot to some degree, why? I mean hopefully there will be other ways to train tm in the new system, but as it currently sits with out cl it takes a long time to work tm.

>>Gar Zeng:
>>An introductory Electric Targeted spell. It will strike a target (at any range now) multiple times.

Sounds great, adding request for nerve damage and/or balance tank... or again a casting technique to do so.

>>Ball Lightning:
>>Candidate for Removal due to obsolescence. We're not totally against keeping it but we have other spell we think people will generally like better.

As it is the spell is horrible really, I'd say a total retuning or removal definitely.

-- Fire Manipulation --

>>Fire Shards:
>>An introductory Fire Targeted spell. It will strike a target multiple times.

Should ignite naphtha.

>>Sun Lance:
>>A basic Fire Targeted spell. This is where Aether Lance went. Single Strike.

Should ignite naphtha.
Awesome, always loved that story that gm at-at posted about sun lancers. Hey maybe Sharuul will come back for just this spell.

>>Fire Ball:
>>An advanced Fire Targeted spell. It will strike a target directly, and do collateral damage to targets around the initial victim. Reference note: Better single target damage than Chain Lightning, but worse area damage.

Not much to say but should ignite naphtha. The splash damage can be really fun as is, hope it stays as is or improves.

>>Dragon's Breath:
>>An advanced Fire Utility / Targeted spell. It allows the caster to store up one single fire TM attack that may not be targeted but will not suffer an accuracy penalty (like Thrown weapons).

With the way attunement regens, a single shot is kinda silly to waste mana on, specially when your going to be going for max duration most likely. The only way a single shot would really be worth it is if it was truly your ace in the hole and was something like X more damaging than any other fire spell and maybe had an accuracy bonus. Really though more shots please...
oh and ignite naphtha.

>>Mantle of Flame:
>>An esoteric Fire Augmentation spell. It fuses the caster into a form of flames, granting them increased Agility as well as better prowess in melee combat. As a side effect, it also produces light. This spell is an Elemental Transformation spell, only one of which can be active at a time (but it's not Cyclic, separate things).

Intriguing. Though I'm not sure I would pick fire as our agility booster or only agility booster. Perhaps a more neutral element, earth/aether/air(sorta). An yes RP is darn well a valid reason to not put it here. Just cause you guys suddenly decide that being x elemental mage is a bad idea, doesn't mean you get to randomly change YEARS of peoples RP.

>>Fire Rain:
>>We want player opinions here. Without going into slot cost again, you have a couple options.
1) Area Effect Multi-Strike TM. Would strike all targets in the room 3-5 times. Can be targeted.
2) Cyclic Area Effect Multi-Strike TM. Would immediately and then continuously strike all targets in the room with you multiple times. Cannot be targeted.
3) Something similar to what you have now, which would throw a few volleys of fire after considerable buildup and between some waiting times. Cannot be targeted.


Could we have a choice to toggle between 1 and 3?

>>Mark of Arhat:
>>We also want player opinions here. Damage over Time spells are often seen as lackluster, so you have two options here...
>>1) Advanced Targeted Damage over Time TM. Damage potential would be about half again what a regular spell is, but doles it out over 20 seconds or so.
>>2) Introductory Debilitation. MoA becomes an elemental damage amplifier debuff. Think Heighten Pain for Necromancers but with an emphasis on improving elemental instead of physical damage.

Choice 2.

>>Ignite:
>>A basic Fire Augmentation spell. Temporarily enchants your weapon with the power of fire. Details on what this means are still a little sparse, but it's planned to be the first in a line of spells to assist the Warrior Mages in a better focus on weaponry.

Anything to show the Warrior side of the guild more is great.

-- Water Manipulation --

>>Frostbite:
>>An advanced Water Debilitation spell. Magic vs. Fortitude. It damages the Stamina of those it strikes, as well as draining some of their fatigue.

Interesting change, a must is to give it the cast area or cast only engaged.

>>Ice Patch:
>>An advanced Water Debilitation spell. Magic vs. Reflex. It knocks the target down and stuns them.

So a reverse change... back to what it used to be. Personally I really like it as a tm spell. The Debilitation part would have to last a looong time to be worth the loss for me.

>>Rising Mists:
>>An advanced Water Utility spell. It boosts the Stealth of everything in the area, friend or foe.

Could it be a perception debuff to? Specially to seeing if we are about to cast a tm spell.

>>Veil of Ice:
>>An advanced Water Warding spell. It provides a moderate barrier against incoming Targeted Magic that will shatter after several attacks. Better if you want to attack with TM yourself but considerably worse protection than Aether Cloak.


Sounds great. Any chance we could have an option like we currently do to use it as a tool against someone. Right now if we cast it on someone/thing we can stop their next tm spell, very useful specially vs critters.


-- Earth Manipulation --

>>Sure Footing:
>>An advanced Earth Augmentation spell. Pulsing balance improvement and parry buff.

I really don't understand the loss of the stat boosts. Hacking this up and swirling winds, just seems rather random even if you say it doesn't make logical sense for this to do what it does. You could easily say that about any spell really, I just don't see the point in moving all the boosts about. In the end it just ends up screwing up things on the player end more than anything.


>>Granite Spike:
>>An introductory Earth Targeted spell. Single strike.

Will this have some impact as well? I always thought fist of stone would have rocked as a spell if it just had a little puncture or slice.

>>Earth Sense:
>>Candidate for Removal, as the current incarnation is widely considered unimpressive.

Does this mean it will be retooled into something else? The concept of the spell in general is neat, but it's actual effects are as you said it unimpressive.

>>Magnetic Ballista:
>>An esoteric Earth Utility / Targeted spell. Basically the same as now.

Anyway to make this not auto-target guardians?

>>Aegis of Granite:
>>An esoteric Earth Augmentation spell. It fuses the caster into a form of Earth, granting them superior strength, stamina, and shield skill. It is an Elemental Transformation, of which only one can be used at a time (but it is not a Cyclic).

Sounds like the spell I entered in the contest gm-vladrick ran years ago, very neat.

>>Anther's Call:
>>A basic Earth debilitation spell. Immobilizes. Much less strange about where you use it.

Is it going to be on-par for duration to other 'web' like spells that other guilds have? Right now it is very lackluster even if you win it by far.

-- Air Manipulation --

>>Zephyr:
>>A basic Air Utility spell. Continually restores the fatigue of all things in the area.

How about a two type cast... one that restores and one that tanks fatigue? Caster having near immunity vs his/her own cast of the tank version.

>>Tailwind:
>>An introductory Air Augmentation spell. Improves the caster's accuracy with ranged weapons.

Great that its going to be self cast, any chance at all that it can keep the aide against incoming ranged?
Please make this castable inside, and to keep the air bubble function.

>>Air Lash:
>>A basic Air Targeted spell. This is where Aether Lash went. Single target.

Would be cool if it switched randomly from being blazing hot air, and frigidly cold air.

>>Air Bubble:
>>A basic Air Utility spell. Allows underwater breath for whoever it's cast on. (We don't actually expect most people to take this, it's there so the functionality still exists)

This spell could be great protection spell as well if retooled. Could make it so you could extend the spell from just covering your head to your whole body. Perhaps an advanced version of ES almost, but dialed in to help block specific things not everything.

>>Paeldryth's Wrath:
>>An advanced Air Targeted spell. Does no damage, but blasts an opponent from Ranged to Melee or Melee to Ranged, at the caster's discretion. More accurate than most TM spells due to its non-damaging nature.

Another reverse about... please don't do this, when it was like this in the past, not many people owned the spell. I do like the being able to move something from ranged to melee option, it definitely needs to keep the unbalancing feature in it. Sometimes it is the only thing that works in our toolbox of unbalancing.

>>Shockwave:
>>An esoteric Air Targeted spell. Strikes everything in the area once as well as knocking them away from the mage. Metaspell addition: Flame Shockwave. Changes (at caster option upon cast) the damage of Shockwave to be primarily fire instead of impact.

No clue if this is a good thing or not.

>>Swirling Winds:
>>A basic Air Augmentation spell. Evasion and Reflex boost.

See earlier rant.

>>Vertigo:
>>An advanced Air Debilitation spell. Magic vs Will. Pulsing balance debuff and general offense debuff.

Can it have some different effect on things that don't breathe? Some use on them at least...

>>Thunderclap:
>>An advanced Air Debilitation spell. Magic vs Fortitude. Area effect stun.

If you can't stun your self this will be a great change, I might even get it again. Some use on undead would be great... (I hope I'm remembering right, been a long time since I had the spell)

>>Y'ntrel Sechra:
>>A basic Air Augmentation spell. Improves the armor skill of the first piece of armor it finds on you (it will first check hands then cycle across your body). Only one instance of this spell may be up at once.

Yeah... I'm glad your going to add the cast at specific armor, cause you know people would just remove armor to get the effect they wanted.


~Worrclan, Dwarf of the Realms-

>>With the way attunement regens, a single shot is kinda silly to waste mana on, specially when your going to be going for max duration most likely. The only way a single shot would really be worth it is if it was truly your ace in the hole and was something like X more damaging than any other fire spell and maybe had an accuracy bonus. Really though more shots please...
oh and ignite naphtha.

The air spell Blufmor Garaen is taking the role of the current Dragons Breath spell.

The new Dragon's Breath will be a single shot without the penalty brought on by not being targeted. Making it a different kind of useful than the current DB, but arguably in fewer circumstances and less preferable in a mana in/damage out kind of way.

The new DB as described sounds great to me for the CvC.

>>There's no such thing as "a neutral element" in the range of idiosyncratic roleplay choices about elements.

Is to. Aether absolutely is, I very much doubt there is anyone that has roleplay against it. Most fire mages use earth magic and wind magic, most anti-fire mages(storm mages rule!) use wind and earth spells.

Sure if your a real hard cored x mage, and only use that magic you should suffer. However putting it in fire is making us make a definite choice. Which putting in fire just seems random really. Fire or anti-fire mages(In all the variates there are) are really the two biggest arenas of Warrior Mages. Well that and a 'battle mage', but there are fewer of those. Battle mage being one that focuses way more on mundane combat than magical.


~Worrclan, Dwarf of the Realms-

For clarification purposes, how does going from a few capped 'super TM' spells to a larger array of capped TM spells with varying properties somehow translate to a blander Warrior Mage experience?

<<"nuking the area" does nothing for gaining access to areas where a perception check is involved <vipers/genii>.


Train sorcery, use avaes runestone. Hope you roll in the 95% once your sorcery is high enough to give the minimum chance for loss of limbs.

Ask a moonmage to cast Clear Vision on you before you go.

Train perception.

there you go, 3 viable ways of getting past a perception check without there needing to to be a Perception buff in the Warmage Lineup.

~Tieriana~

Armifer has shown a disdain for the current runestone spell selection. I wouldn't be surprised if CV runes went extinct at some point. Would be interested to know if there will be any changes to them with the M3.0 roll-out or not.

Nerve damage isn't really gone from electric damagers, is it?

---

"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl

>>If that's what you like you can do it with moonies, clerics, and bards. Again what makes being a warmie unique everything you described is true of both other magic prime guilds and bards.

At a slower pace and with forced out of combat time.

Warrior Mages are the magic oriented combat focused guild, Moon Mages and Clerics being able to also excel at combat doesn't somehow diminish that.

>>Nerve damage isn't really gone from electric damagers, is it?

As tentatively designed, it's gone. We're not strictly against returning it and touching on other "elemental effects" kind of things in TM, but are weighing the whole extra cost issue. It's not exactly something that'd conceptually gel with a metaspell, so it'd be an all or nothing affair.

tl;dr -- We could add it back, but it'd make the Lightning attack spells, which are already quirky, pretty hellishly expensive to learn.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>>If that's what you like you can do it with moonies, clerics, and bards. Again what makes being a warmie unique everything you described is true of both other magic prime guilds and bards.

Then all three should be fun to play, no?

What exactly is the complaint?

Oh noes, they can do it too? why bother with one when others can also!?!? It's not fun unless it's "teh best"?

Warrior mages have very tiny survival and lore requirements, easily doable to the post 100th circle levels in a month or two depending on how much time you can put in. After that it's pure weapons and magic to circle. Warrior Mages have access to multiple AoE choices, multiple strike choices, spells of all damage types, spells of most disabler types, spells of most combat related buff types. That's a unique and compelling guild choice for some players, if it's not to others then there are ten other guilds to play.

Watering down the spells for one, and leaving them with no niche for another.


Oderint Dum Metuant

>>If that's what you like you can do it with moonies, clerics, and bards. Again what makes being a warmie unique everything you described is true of both other magic prime guilds and bards.

Honestly, if this is your attitude you should just stop being a warrior mage right now. Find a nearest inn and pop out a moonie and/or a cleric. Don't even think about it, just do it.

Your never getting an air spell that allows you to quickly fly over to an area and your never getting that cantrip that turns your hands into a defibulator.

If you can't understand how warrior mages are currently unique compared to the other two, just stop playing one and roll one of the other two, because you missed the entire point of what unique means to a warrior mage.

_______________________
As good almost kill a man as kill a good book; who kills a man kills a reasonable creature, God's image; but he who destroys a good book, kills reason itself, kills the image of God, as it were in the eye.
-John Milton