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>I really desire the ability to teach it about its own biology.
Inside they're probably undifferentiated mucus.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
ROBERTDH
DRISCOLLS
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/27/2010 04:12 PM CDT
>>With familiars gaining the ability to fight, I'd like to request that they be coded so that I can beat the everliving snot out of them even when the spell is not active.
Yes, please!
-=Issus=-
Yes, please!
-=Issus=-
SHADOW7988
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/27/2010 08:58 PM CDT
Nuke them all.
I know this is a response to a GM/Official Announcement, and that announcement wasn't about lore.
However what is up with Warrior Mages defense against stealth, being nuke and burn the place.
To me, and yes, I've really not looked at Warrior Mage lore, besides those few things that have been put onto the forums (thank you Powerhaus). [Anyways, to the point] Lanival was a Warrior Mage, I don't think he would go around nuke and burning his army to destroy his opponents.
I think of Warrior Mages, as War Mages, Mages of War using their abilities for the betterment of armies. As such, I'd be for a spell that was very overt in taking out stealth, but not necessarily kill, burn, and destroy.
As example:
Blazing Lights:
The Warrior Mage funnels tremendous amounts of energy from the elemental plane of lightning, creating certain chaos, and changing the surroundings into a semi-state of another plane. Making it disorienting to use camouflage, and the environment to conceal themselves, because what was isn't, and then is again.
(Well, its a work in progress, and only example).
What is mechanically does, makes it harder to use stealth, or stay in hiding, or contested pushes someone out of hiding.
Just an idea.
-Shadow7988 <-Never tried a Warrior Mage, but would like to.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
I know this is a response to a GM/Official Announcement, and that announcement wasn't about lore.
However what is up with Warrior Mages defense against stealth, being nuke and burn the place.
To me, and yes, I've really not looked at Warrior Mage lore, besides those few things that have been put onto the forums (thank you Powerhaus). [Anyways, to the point] Lanival was a Warrior Mage, I don't think he would go around nuke and burning his army to destroy his opponents.
I think of Warrior Mages, as War Mages, Mages of War using their abilities for the betterment of armies. As such, I'd be for a spell that was very overt in taking out stealth, but not necessarily kill, burn, and destroy.
As example:
Blazing Lights:
The Warrior Mage funnels tremendous amounts of energy from the elemental plane of lightning, creating certain chaos, and changing the surroundings into a semi-state of another plane. Making it disorienting to use camouflage, and the environment to conceal themselves, because what was isn't, and then is again.
(Well, its a work in progress, and only example).
What is mechanically does, makes it harder to use stealth, or stay in hiding, or contested pushes someone out of hiding.
Just an idea.
-Shadow7988 <-Never tried a Warrior Mage, but would like to.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
RAIST
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/27/2010 09:00 PM CDT
>changing the surroundings into a semi-state of another plane.
This is bad. This is the type of thing Lyras did to cause mana storms. I do not think you want to go down that road.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
This is bad. This is the type of thing Lyras did to cause mana storms. I do not think you want to go down that road.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
SHADOW7988
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/27/2010 09:14 PM CDT
Hm.... Yes, but only blurring for a moment, not the whole at infinite... but I believe your right, still something else that does what I'm mechanically thinking about should somehow be possible.
On a related note, why are those fissures into other planes alright, isn't that the same thing in a way?
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
On a related note, why are those fissures into other planes alright, isn't that the same thing in a way?
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
RAIST
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/27/2010 09:54 PM CDT
>On a related note, why are those fissures into other planes alright, isn't that the same thing in a way?
I suspect that's because they came out before the Plane invading lore was established.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
I suspect that's because they came out before the Plane invading lore was established.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/27/2010 10:14 PM CDT
>>On a related note, why are those fissures into other planes alright, isn't that the same thing in a way?
There's a difference between opening a door and closing it when you're done, and removing your outside wall. Planar interaction happens. You can't be a Cleric or a Moon Mage without it going on 24/7 in some minute dose. The problems come when you lose control of it, or it becomes big enough to impact the physical properties of the world.
Regardless of the fictional element, Warrior Mages are not slated to get any stealth-related spells outside of Rising Mist, which is itself simply an aberrant we currently have no interest in removing. If you want to play with the stealth system as a Warrior Mage, you will be working at the baseline.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
There's a difference between opening a door and closing it when you're done, and removing your outside wall. Planar interaction happens. You can't be a Cleric or a Moon Mage without it going on 24/7 in some minute dose. The problems come when you lose control of it, or it becomes big enough to impact the physical properties of the world.
Regardless of the fictional element, Warrior Mages are not slated to get any stealth-related spells outside of Rising Mist, which is itself simply an aberrant we currently have no interest in removing. If you want to play with the stealth system as a Warrior Mage, you will be working at the baseline.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
ROBERTDH
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/27/2010 10:56 PM CDT
Ehn, even if the nerve damage was token... I just like the texture it adds. Probably not a thing but .... it'd be nice to have one nerve-purposed damager.
I'd like to have as many options for wound location (internal, external, skin, nerves, eyes, etc). I'm not sure I have good logic for why, since wounds won't apparently matters as much in the future? Right now they're what you damage is so much more important than how you damage it.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
I'd like to have as many options for wound location (internal, external, skin, nerves, eyes, etc). I'm not sure I have good logic for why, since wounds won't apparently matters as much in the future? Right now they're what you damage is so much more important than how you damage it.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/27/2010 11:02 PM CDT
>>I'm not sure I have good logic for why, since wounds won't apparently matters as much in the future? Right now they're what you damage is so much more important than how you damage it.
The general idea is to invert the relationship of wounds and vitality in Combat 3.0. Wounds become a steadily growing byproduct of your movement toward killing someone by taking their vitality down.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
The general idea is to invert the relationship of wounds and vitality in Combat 3.0. Wounds become a steadily growing byproduct of your movement toward killing someone by taking their vitality down.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
ASHBOMB
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/27/2010 11:43 PM CDT
The big perk in regards to nerve damage is the hit to defenses. Not sure how the formulas work, but it's great for critters that absorb/evade/parry.
I'd like something that does this, SD fills that niche nicely.
I'd like something that does this, SD fills that niche nicely.
POWERHAUS
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 12:50 AM CDT
would something like this work for SD replacement:
something that just pulsed a few seconds RT/stun kind of like vertigo with a minor amount of nerve damage that slowly built up as it goes on. Like throwing a mini ball lightning(or big will o wisp-will o wasp?) that sticks with them a bit - make it a single target cast.
You feel a strange sensation inside of you, your nerves begin to feel hot, and you realize you're beginning to shiver. You struggle to control your body as it begins to spasm, you grit your teeth and clench your hands and your right knee suddenly twitches to the side as you feel a wave of electricity overtake your nerves momentarily.
just an idea..
_________________________________
An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
something that just pulsed a few seconds RT/stun kind of like vertigo with a minor amount of nerve damage that slowly built up as it goes on. Like throwing a mini ball lightning(or big will o wisp-will o wasp?) that sticks with them a bit - make it a single target cast.
You feel a strange sensation inside of you, your nerves begin to feel hot, and you realize you're beginning to shiver. You struggle to control your body as it begins to spasm, you grit your teeth and clench your hands and your right knee suddenly twitches to the side as you feel a wave of electricity overtake your nerves momentarily.
just an idea..
_________________________________
An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
ASHBOMB
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 01:32 AM CDT
Not a bad idea if current incarnation is going away.
CLEARLEAF
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 09:49 AM CDT
It has been said a few times in the past (and alluded to not a handful of posts back by Armifer in re:wounds vs. vitality) that the impact of nerve damage will be less significant. Perhaps quite a bit less. Now I'm with you, I like nerve damage, I like that I have to use a little finesse when snapcasting. I like that critters I've CLed so much they have 'severe paralysis' are still able to get through my parry--wait a second. Anyway it's going away, and if we kept static discharge it would be pretty weak.
>>Arc Light: An advanced Electric Debilitation spell. Magic vs. Reflex. It will stun the target, do non-lethal damage to their head, and ignite naphtha.
>>Tingle: An advanced Electric Debilitation spell. Magic vs. Fortitude. It will debuff the target's Reflex and Agility.
I imagine that a direct debuff to Reflex/Agility will effectively be the same darn thing as 'dialing in their offense/defense' with nerve damage. They won't be able to hit me with agility, and they won't be able to dodge me with reflexes. And it's still an electricity spell. So I'm not sure we're really losing much of anything.
>>Arc Light: An advanced Electric Debilitation spell. Magic vs. Reflex. It will stun the target, do non-lethal damage to their head, and ignite naphtha.
>>Tingle: An advanced Electric Debilitation spell. Magic vs. Fortitude. It will debuff the target's Reflex and Agility.
I imagine that a direct debuff to Reflex/Agility will effectively be the same darn thing as 'dialing in their offense/defense' with nerve damage. They won't be able to hit me with agility, and they won't be able to dodge me with reflexes. And it's still an electricity spell. So I'm not sure we're really losing much of anything.
SHOGUNASSASIN429
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 10:25 AM CDT
>>With familiars gaining the ability to fight, I'd like to request that they be coded so that I can beat the everliving snot out of them even when the spell is not active.
As long as you're willing to live with the consequences.
>>If you want to play with the stealth system as a Warrior Mage, you will be working at the baseline.
It's really unfortunate that you guys take this hardline approach to War Mages and stealth. I'm not sure what exactly the reasoning behind it is. It's not like you say to the rangers and paladins that because they are magic third they will only work at a baseline with it, which would probably mean no spellbooks and just AP spells. Instead you even expand the NMU's skills to mimic magic. I'm not asking for khri like buffs to stealth or passive spot abilities here, but if you compare the potency of those abilities to what we are asking for, perception and hiding buffs here and there it's really not so far away from the baseline.
As long as you're willing to live with the consequences.
>>If you want to play with the stealth system as a Warrior Mage, you will be working at the baseline.
It's really unfortunate that you guys take this hardline approach to War Mages and stealth. I'm not sure what exactly the reasoning behind it is. It's not like you say to the rangers and paladins that because they are magic third they will only work at a baseline with it, which would probably mean no spellbooks and just AP spells. Instead you even expand the NMU's skills to mimic magic. I'm not asking for khri like buffs to stealth or passive spot abilities here, but if you compare the potency of those abilities to what we are asking for, perception and hiding buffs here and there it's really not so far away from the baseline.
DR-ZEYURN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 11:21 AM CDT
Mordimer, every guild is required to be bad at something. This is what WMs are required to be bad at.
-Z
-Z
PEPEROMAN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 11:54 AM CDT
<<I'm not asking for khri like buffs to stealth or passive spot abilities here, but if you compare the potency of those abilities to what we are asking for, perception and hiding buffs here and there it's really not so far away from the baseline.>>
From the GM responses it sounds like stealth is firmly not in the WM sphere of influence. You may not have a stealth buff that will help you as much in PvP, but you do have a spell that will let you learn stealth better in PvE. This will help you learn the raw ranks to use in PvP. I've been criticized for saying it could be worse, but it could be worse.
The spheres of influence a guild has is not explicitly posted anywhere that I have read since I returned to the game, but it seems they will be refined with Magic 3.0. It would actually be nice to have an official post of spheres of influence.
I look at MM spell list, and its obvious that TM is not one of their spheres of influence. Direct damage spells have one effect - no collateral damage, no delayed multishot, and cover fewer damage types. We have 1 AoE and 1 multishot both require something on the ground unless you use moonblade which still requires a moon. We do have a burn as a DFA spell, but it requires a moon or sun. We do not have a spell to increase TM skill.
I look at the Necro spell list, and I see they have magical snipe (b/c they are survival prime probably?), TM spells that have a few more effects - collateral damage on a single target, continual area effect damage, randomized damage type, and a TM boost. So my interpretation is that Necros have TM/combat as more of a sphere of influence than a MM.
I would love to have more TM options/effects, a TM boosting spell, more combat boosting skills, etc as a combat moon mage. Shield is tert for MM, and there are plenty of MM with high shield ranks. My choice to focus on combats does not mean the MM sphere should shift towards that. We all have areas that we want to train that are tertiary and hard for our respective guilds.
I would despair, though, if I couldn't travel across Elanthia in the blink of an eye and have a walking vault. I choose my utility over the ability to be walking destruction (although all my efforts go into trying to increase my MM's combat). This is the crux of what a lot of people are saying. Would you trade your destructive capabilities for more stealth focus or more utility? If you feel your destructive abilities do not warrant the lack of stealth ability then you may want to focus more on proposing ways to increase your destructive capabilities than trying to get stealth abilities.
<<Mordimer, every guild is required to be bad at something. This is what WMs are required to be bad at.>>
Heh Z said it a lot more concise than I did...
From the GM responses it sounds like stealth is firmly not in the WM sphere of influence. You may not have a stealth buff that will help you as much in PvP, but you do have a spell that will let you learn stealth better in PvE. This will help you learn the raw ranks to use in PvP. I've been criticized for saying it could be worse, but it could be worse.
The spheres of influence a guild has is not explicitly posted anywhere that I have read since I returned to the game, but it seems they will be refined with Magic 3.0. It would actually be nice to have an official post of spheres of influence.
I look at MM spell list, and its obvious that TM is not one of their spheres of influence. Direct damage spells have one effect - no collateral damage, no delayed multishot, and cover fewer damage types. We have 1 AoE and 1 multishot both require something on the ground unless you use moonblade which still requires a moon. We do have a burn as a DFA spell, but it requires a moon or sun. We do not have a spell to increase TM skill.
I look at the Necro spell list, and I see they have magical snipe (b/c they are survival prime probably?), TM spells that have a few more effects - collateral damage on a single target, continual area effect damage, randomized damage type, and a TM boost. So my interpretation is that Necros have TM/combat as more of a sphere of influence than a MM.
I would love to have more TM options/effects, a TM boosting spell, more combat boosting skills, etc as a combat moon mage. Shield is tert for MM, and there are plenty of MM with high shield ranks. My choice to focus on combats does not mean the MM sphere should shift towards that. We all have areas that we want to train that are tertiary and hard for our respective guilds.
I would despair, though, if I couldn't travel across Elanthia in the blink of an eye and have a walking vault. I choose my utility over the ability to be walking destruction (although all my efforts go into trying to increase my MM's combat). This is the crux of what a lot of people are saying. Would you trade your destructive capabilities for more stealth focus or more utility? If you feel your destructive abilities do not warrant the lack of stealth ability then you may want to focus more on proposing ways to increase your destructive capabilities than trying to get stealth abilities.
<<Mordimer, every guild is required to be bad at something. This is what WMs are required to be bad at.>>
Heh Z said it a lot more concise than I did...
SHOGUNASSASIN429
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 12:20 PM CDT
>>If you feel your destructive abilities do not warrant the lack of stealth ability then you may want to focus more on proposing ways to increase your destructive capabilities than trying to get stealth abilities.
You got me there, this is how i feel currently and what i'm worried about is that magic 3.0 will not rememdy it. For example, having CL only strike the hidden target once instead of multiple times with even less accuracy does not increase our destructive capabilities. The problem i'm seeing is if i cannot see it i cannot target it and if i cannot target it i cannot hit it, thus the suggestion for a perception buff. I will take your advice though and try to come up with ways to be more destructive.
>>Mordimer, every guild is required to be bad at something. This is what WMs are required to be bad at.
I understand that, and what it boils down to currently is that WMs are thus bad at PvP unless they simply out-train their opponent. I won't QQ much more since I know that Armifer and you have been rolling out quality product for a number of years now and i have no reason to doubt that you'll do the same for the WM guild, just as long as you realize this limitation and compensate for it in the destructive capabilities column.
You got me there, this is how i feel currently and what i'm worried about is that magic 3.0 will not rememdy it. For example, having CL only strike the hidden target once instead of multiple times with even less accuracy does not increase our destructive capabilities. The problem i'm seeing is if i cannot see it i cannot target it and if i cannot target it i cannot hit it, thus the suggestion for a perception buff. I will take your advice though and try to come up with ways to be more destructive.
>>Mordimer, every guild is required to be bad at something. This is what WMs are required to be bad at.
I understand that, and what it boils down to currently is that WMs are thus bad at PvP unless they simply out-train their opponent. I won't QQ much more since I know that Armifer and you have been rolling out quality product for a number of years now and i have no reason to doubt that you'll do the same for the WM guild, just as long as you realize this limitation and compensate for it in the destructive capabilities column.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 01:19 PM CDT
Some variety of sound wave type spell that let you use TM to point out hiders instead of or in addition to perception would seem decently guild appropriate imo.
GRIM45
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 01:22 PM CDT
>>Some variety of sound wave type spell that let you use TM to point out hiders instead of or in addition to perception would seem decently guild appropriate imo.
:facepalm:
>>...every guild is required to be bad at something. [Stealth] is what WMs are required to be bad at.
(http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=35&topic=2&message=7839)
It's not that GMs can't conceptually come up with a spell that fits in the elemental arena that deals with stealth. It's you suck at it BY DESIGN.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
:facepalm:
>>...every guild is required to be bad at something. [Stealth] is what WMs are required to be bad at.
(http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=35&topic=2&message=7839)
It's not that GMs can't conceptually come up with a spell that fits in the elemental arena that deals with stealth. It's you suck at it BY DESIGN.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 01:33 PM CDT
>>It's not that GMs can't conceptually come up with a spell that fits in the elemental arena that deals with stealth. It's you suck at it BY DESIGN.
Right on. I was suggesting a boost to perception though. The thread you linked was in response to warrior mage stealth boosters I thought. Sorry if I read it wrong or something and it was meant to include perception as well.
Doesn't really make me any nevermind one way or the other. I'm fine with cast area being the solution to anti-stealth.
Right on. I was suggesting a boost to perception though. The thread you linked was in response to warrior mage stealth boosters I thought. Sorry if I read it wrong or something and it was meant to include perception as well.
Doesn't really make me any nevermind one way or the other. I'm fine with cast area being the solution to anti-stealth.
SHOGUNASSASIN429
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 01:38 PM CDT
I haven't even tested but does ROS work on people advancing from hiding? Does it pull them out of hiding when it hits? IF so then this is the type of thing we need more of. I still think ROS needs improvement, very short duration and is kind of buggy. I remember Wythor saying he was going to look into to it but don't know if it was done.
But that's not enough, much like TW used to be ROS becomes limited by the fact that as soon as you move it drops, making it useful in spars but not so much in open conflict.
So let's say they leave that as is since it has a purpose, it's effective and differentiated. But now what about facing ranged stealths? Maybe have the new spell BG have a cast option of WAVE SELF and the effect is similar of shockwave except less powerful but if it hits something you'd at least know someone is there and in hiding.
But that's not enough, much like TW used to be ROS becomes limited by the fact that as soon as you move it drops, making it useful in spars but not so much in open conflict.
So let's say they leave that as is since it has a purpose, it's effective and differentiated. But now what about facing ranged stealths? Maybe have the new spell BG have a cast option of WAVE SELF and the effect is similar of shockwave except less powerful but if it hits something you'd at least know someone is there and in hiding.
GRIM45
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 01:39 PM CDT
>>Right on. I was suggesting a boost to perception though.
Perception = Part of Stealth.
>> The thread you linked was in response to warrior mage stealth boosters I thought. Sorry if I read it wrong or something and it was meant to include perception as well.
You're wrong.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
Perception = Part of Stealth.
>> The thread you linked was in response to warrior mage stealth boosters I thought. Sorry if I read it wrong or something and it was meant to include perception as well.
You're wrong.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 01:43 PM CDT
>>Perception = Part of Stealth.
>>You're wrong.
>>Sorry if I read it wrong or something...
>>Doesn't really make me any nevermind one way or the other. I'm fine with cast area being the solution to anti-stealth.
>>You're wrong.
>>Sorry if I read it wrong or something...
>>Doesn't really make me any nevermind one way or the other. I'm fine with cast area being the solution to anti-stealth.
SHOGUNASSASIN429
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 02:40 PM CDT
Ok thiking about more destructive ways to approach dealing with stealth how come that Mortal Kombat came out with Sub Zero like forever ago and i still can't make an ice decoy of myself that fools people?
ROBERTDH
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 03:05 PM CDT
Is stealth even going to matter that much in combat 3.0, where the pendulum is swinging away from alpha strikes?
I'd be less concerned about our loss of perception buffs and more concerned with our loss of purposed ranged defenses.
RM and tailwind no longer debuff anything, and our shield buff is now an expensive-looking spell with usage limits.
Though perhaps this concern is unfounded with the combat 3.0 allowing us to pseudo-parry ranged attacks? Or maybe stealth isn't going to be as effective at preventing eventual melee engagement.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
I'd be less concerned about our loss of perception buffs and more concerned with our loss of purposed ranged defenses.
RM and tailwind no longer debuff anything, and our shield buff is now an expensive-looking spell with usage limits.
Though perhaps this concern is unfounded with the combat 3.0 allowing us to pseudo-parry ranged attacks? Or maybe stealth isn't going to be as effective at preventing eventual melee engagement.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 03:13 PM CDT
>>Is stealth even going to matter that much in combat 3.0, where the pendulum is swinging away from alpha strikes?
We want it to mean less than it does now -- becoming less of a ninja combat routine and more of a tool to avoid combat or determine when it begins -- but it will always matter to some extent for the sheer tactical value of controlling the flow of the engagement.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
We want it to mean less than it does now -- becoming less of a ninja combat routine and more of a tool to avoid combat or determine when it begins -- but it will always matter to some extent for the sheer tactical value of controlling the flow of the engagement.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
SHOGUNASSASIN429
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 03:17 PM CDT
>>Is stealth even going to matter that much in combat 3.0, where the pendulum is swinging away from alpha strikes?
I could be missing something here but why do you guys think that just because one hit kills will be going away that stealth won't matter in combat 3.0?
I'm pretty sure that stealth will continue to be very important in combat for at least 3 guilds, and as i've said before things like getting the full aim or full target from the safety of the shadows are pretty freaking huge in combat now and in the future.
I do think those are very good points about RM and tailwinds though.
I could be missing something here but why do you guys think that just because one hit kills will be going away that stealth won't matter in combat 3.0?
I'm pretty sure that stealth will continue to be very important in combat for at least 3 guilds, and as i've said before things like getting the full aim or full target from the safety of the shadows are pretty freaking huge in combat now and in the future.
I do think those are very good points about RM and tailwinds though.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 03:49 PM CDT
>>I could be missing something here but why do you guys think that just because one hit kills will be going away that stealth won't matter in combat 3.0?
Because of Armifer's last post.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
Because of Armifer's last post.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
VEE-REX
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 04:16 PM CDT
>>I could be missing something here but why do you guys think that just because one hit kills will be going away that stealth won't matter in combat 3.0?
It'll matter. I'm just thinking that we'll see less of "Driving in like the irresistable force of a cyclone, Noob lands apocalyptic strike on Mordimer"
And more of "Driving in like the irresistable force of a cyclone, Noob lands hard hit to Mordimer's right leg. Mordimer casts AnC blah blah" whatever I'm gonna kill your character now for having to explain, Mord.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
It'll matter. I'm just thinking that we'll see less of "Driving in like the irresistable force of a cyclone, Noob lands apocalyptic strike on Mordimer"
And more of "Driving in like the irresistable force of a cyclone, Noob lands hard hit to Mordimer's right leg. Mordimer casts AnC blah blah" whatever I'm gonna kill your character now for having to explain, Mord.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
JULIAN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 06:38 PM CDT
>>And more of "Driving in like the irresistable force of a cyclone, Noob lands hard hit to Mordimer's right leg. Mordimer casts AnC blah blah" whatever I'm gonna kill your character now for having to explain, Mord.<<
This will only work if it's not possible to attack and remain hidden or pop out for 1 second and rehide before anyone can react.
This will only work if it's not possible to attack and remain hidden or pop out for 1 second and rehide before anyone can react.
JULIAN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 06:41 PM CDT
>>Mordimer, every guild is required to be bad at something. This is what WMs are required to be bad at.<<
It just seems like some disadvantages are a whole lot more disadvantageous than others.
It just seems like some disadvantages are a whole lot more disadvantageous than others.
GRIM45
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 06:51 PM CDT
>>It just seems like some disadvantages are a whole lot more disadvantageous than others.
And?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
And?
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
SHOGUNASSASIN429
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 06:57 PM CDT
>>Because of Armifer's last post.
Seems to me that Amrifer and I are in agreement. He said tactical advantages and i posted one such tactical advantage. It may not be as significant as a one hit snipe or backstab that we're used to as Vinjince points out but if you can't see or cast on your target with success it will just end up being 5 of those type attacks instead of 1.
>>And?
And it creates a game that's disconnected with its own lore as well as unbalanced in terms of guild populations. Who hasn't rolled up a thief in the last 10 years because they outright dominate PvP?
Seems to me that Amrifer and I are in agreement. He said tactical advantages and i posted one such tactical advantage. It may not be as significant as a one hit snipe or backstab that we're used to as Vinjince points out but if you can't see or cast on your target with success it will just end up being 5 of those type attacks instead of 1.
>>And?
And it creates a game that's disconnected with its own lore as well as unbalanced in terms of guild populations. Who hasn't rolled up a thief in the last 10 years because they outright dominate PvP?
SHOGUNASSASIN429
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 07:00 PM CDT
To clarify before it turns into accusations that i want to nerf thieves or some such thing, I do not I think those tactical advantages are a must have for the survival heavy guilds. Just give us ways to deal with them other then "train perception and shield you noob".
JULIAN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 07:24 PM CDT
>>To clarify before it turns into accusations that i want to nerf thieves or some such thing<<
Having awesome skill sets should mean you get less for abilities.
Having awesome skill sets should mean you get less for abilities.
RAIST
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 07:45 PM CDT
I don't know, this strikes me as exactly the way I'd always pictured the WM guild.
"Xxxxxx wiped out a unit of 10,000 soldiers with one spell as they advanced on his city, but was killed by a sabateur who stabbed him from behind."
This is to contrast it with the other majorly combat focused guild, the Barbarians, who's story goes more like
"Xxxxxx wiped out every man to come within arms reach, 176 in total, then got bored and wandered off. The sabateur was later fired for being unnecessary."
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
"Xxxxxx wiped out a unit of 10,000 soldiers with one spell as they advanced on his city, but was killed by a sabateur who stabbed him from behind."
This is to contrast it with the other majorly combat focused guild, the Barbarians, who's story goes more like
"Xxxxxx wiped out every man to come within arms reach, 176 in total, then got bored and wandered off. The sabateur was later fired for being unnecessary."
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 08:10 PM CDT
<<sound wave type spell that let you use TM to point out hiders instead of or in addition to perception >> except for the fact that it doesn't use TM, the bards guild is that-away. <kertigen's eye enchante>
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
ROBERTDH
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 09:10 PM CDT
>Xxxxxx wiped out a unit of 10,000 soldiers with one spell as they advanced on his city, but was killed by a sabateur who stabbed him from behind.
More like shot in the eye by a distant archer.
We're pretty well-equipped to kill anything attempting to stab us from behind. It's largely unnecessary to nuke the area if your opponent has advanced to at least pole.
The impact of stealth is going to depend on how much stealth prevents engagement. Once you've engaged, I think the war of attrition favors us if only because we can attrite faster.
But at missile range, if you can't see the target, nuking the area is pretty much the only option... and now we're potentially more defenseless at that range?
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
More like shot in the eye by a distant archer.
We're pretty well-equipped to kill anything attempting to stab us from behind. It's largely unnecessary to nuke the area if your opponent has advanced to at least pole.
The impact of stealth is going to depend on how much stealth prevents engagement. Once you've engaged, I think the war of attrition favors us if only because we can attrite faster.
But at missile range, if you can't see the target, nuking the area is pretty much the only option... and now we're potentially more defenseless at that range?
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
THELOST1
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 10:35 PM CDT
>>The problem i'm seeing is if i cannot see it i cannot target it and if i cannot target it i cannot hit it
If I have been following along correctly this is completely untrue. A penalty to defenses will apply to anyone in hiding and at least some TM AoEs (probably all) will be targeted without a specific target (18 seconds to full target, basically prep time).
If I got any of that wrong someone please correct me, though.
If I have been following along correctly this is completely untrue. A penalty to defenses will apply to anyone in hiding and at least some TM AoEs (probably all) will be targeted without a specific target (18 seconds to full target, basically prep time).
If I got any of that wrong someone please correct me, though.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/28/2010 10:39 PM CDT
Didn't realize that got announced already, but that certainly makes the point easier to get across.
Yes, our intention is that hiding will come at a noticeable penalty to your defenses. Stealth is for when they don't know you're coming.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
Yes, our intention is that hiding will come at a noticeable penalty to your defenses. Stealth is for when they don't know you're coming.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
