<Krooner's post

:( It's sad and it's true.

Paladin's are the heroes! Why shun this? Go be an obtuse warrior of the light!

Stop fighting your internal urges and be the shining beacon of stubborn self righteousness you were born to be!

Next thing I know I'm going to read the necromancer folders; and someone's going to want to be a "Good" Necromancer... oh wait nm forum meltdown in one... two...

---

Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:

http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html

<<I hate what modern language has done to this word. I prefer the Homeric slant, honestly. Both sides of a conflict have heroes.>>

Way to take an extremely sarcastic post and make it; that.

---

Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:

http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html

I always liked the idea of how Dragon Age handles Templars(Paladins) and the Chantry(Clerics). Each are an arm of the same organization, with their own hierarchy who just happen to both ultimately answer to the same person("The Divine"), who is sometimes a Templar and sometimes a Priest of the Chantry.

I may be in the minority but I would prefer if the Paladin Guild ties to the Temple were all purely political. We may unite to some purpose or share some of the same beliefs and ideals, but our duty should be to life, guild and country. I don't care much if our divine inspiration for carrying out that duty comes from Chadatru or Meraud or another god or all gods.

>>I'd rather be a Divine Knight than a Knight.<<

Part of the problem (no offence to development) is the notion of Balance. Paladins use to be really awesome in combat.
Now not so much.
example
Courage use to be a Stamina boost that would allow huge damage to occur and you would be able to survive it. I literally had a fractured skull and went on to kill a greater skeleton.
This was tempered by the large penalties for PvP . Soul hits, hot tears and so forth.

M@c ~]X!j % %AN_rrWB5z4%p rBa =jZb*h[mp,0;pv` knIM%aJ|
******************************************
WARNING: You are carrying an extremely large number of items on your person.
Having a very high number of items can cause character corruption or

<<Courage use to be a Stamina boost that would allow huge damage to occur and you would be able to survive it. I literally had a fractured skull and went on to kill a greater skeleton.>>

Yeah, but I'm sure you admit that it was incredibly overpowered. I remember being able to cast a 3+ hour courage that would let you run around with the kind of wounds you are describing. Has it become completely nerfed? Absolutely. So much so that BA is our lame signature spell, heh.

However, I wholeheartedly believe that we will get balanced out when our turn for development arrives. Again, I remember that before I left polearms and shields were terrible. Yet, based on feedback from Ssra that they would be developed to work better, I kept training them as my primary armor and secondary weapon only to return to find that indeed they became what was promised (now they are both my primary). I understand it sucks to feel like things keep getting tweaked-back for the guild, and it's probably especially annoying to have someone come back after a decade absence and suggest being patient, but I really do think we will get our time in the sun again.

--Just a Squire

>I may be in the minority but I would prefer if the Paladin Guild ties to the Temple were all purely political. We may unite to some purpose or share some of the same beliefs and ideals, but our duty should be to life, guild and country. I don't care much if our divine inspiration for carrying out that duty comes from Chadatru or Meraud or another god or all gods.

>I disagree. I'd rather be a Divine Knight than a Knight. There's too much in our current lore that does give us a direct tie to the divine: Holy weapons, Holy Magic and mana, Sacred Insight, these are not just political maneuvers.

If I were a Paladin I might pay attention to this dichotomy of approach because of the RP potential in it. It seems to me this difference in belief can spawn small scale and world-wide RP. I wasn't previously aware of a ton of intra-paladin guild intrigue; this is definitely a start.

<I may be in the minority but I would prefer if the Paladin Guild ties to the Temple were all purely political.

Probably not in the minority actually, but:

<I disagree. I'd rather be a Divine Knight than a Knight. There's too much in our current lore that does give us a direct tie to the divine: Holy weapons, Holy Magic and mana, Sacred Insight, these are not just political maneuvers.

Gotta be divine.

<Paladins use to be really awesome in combat.
<Now not so much.

QFT

<Not sayin' I want to divorce 'divine' and 'knight.' I just don't want to take my orders from the Temple. I'm actually not a fan of the idea of a paladin with no religion. At our guild's foundation, the mana we use is directly tied to the Immortals.

Yes.

<it's probably especially annoying to have someone come back after a decade absence and suggest being patient, but I really do think we will get our time in the sun again.

Yeah, where have you been, slacker. You missed all of the fun Pallie non-development! I hope you are right though, a pale, un-tanned Paladin is an unhealthy Paladin. Not to mention downright unattractive.


<If I were a Paladin I might pay attention to this dichotomy of approach because of the RP potential in it. It seems to me this difference in belief can spawn small scale and world-wide RP. I wasn't previously aware of a ton of intra-paladin guild intrigue; this is definitely a start.

There is a ton of potential intra-paladin guild intrigue. I am all for more and more Paladin RP. Maybe that will keep me busy enough I can forget about what a Paladin could be if we weren't so ignored over the years.

~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.

If so, it would be an exhausting endeavor. Nobody would be able to successfully defeat his opponent. Eventually they'd all forget what they were fighting about and wash it away with Chadatru's Justice.

<If so, it would be an exhausting endeavor. Nobody would be able to successfully defeat his opponent. Eventually they'd all forget what they were fighting about and wash it away with Chadatru's Justice.

Yeah, it would take a lot to get the Paladins in an uproar against each other for this. Would more likely take the form of heated debate, possibly leading to cursing or damning our opponents with words.

~~~
True heroism is remarkably sober, very undramatic. It is not the urge to surpass all others at whatever cost, but the urge to serve others at whatever cost.

>>Some of the best debates I've had with paladins were over morality. They never ended in decapitation, however. If religious debates in DR are anything like IRL, those might.<<

Came close weren't you SHUNNED at one point?

M@c ~]X!j % %AN_rrWB5z4%p rBa =jZb*h[mp,0;pv` knIM%aJ|
******************************************
WARNING: You are carrying an extremely large number of items on your person.
Having a very high number of items can cause character corruption or

>>Not me. Maybe you're thinking of Walcar?<<

Could be. Got so involved with the Oane event that everything else was a bit of a blur.

M@c ~]X!j % %AN_rrWB5z4%p rBa =jZb*h[mp,0;pv` knIM%aJ|
******************************************
WARNING: You are carrying an extremely large number of items on your person.
Having a very high number of items can cause character corruption or

>I believe that Paladins should be knights first and foremost, with a healthy dose of religion added on top for good measure. Not the other way around.

Paladins see holy mana. That sort of precludes a non-religious background.

---

I'm a badger, I be badgerin'

I had a random idea that would never happen:

Finally admit armor is a lost cause, change Paladins to Weapon primary, and then the Barbarians can have brothers.

---

Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

<the Barbarians can have brothers.

Paladins vs Barbarians is just as important a discussion as Paladins vs Clerics, I think. Arguably, Paladins fit somewhere between the two. A Paladin should be "educated" (lore, magic, and the like - and by educated I mean noticeable guild requirements) and this serves to separate them from Barbarians. Thematically speaking, Paladins are the Roman Legion, the Greek Phalanx, the Imperial Legion from The Elder Scrolls, the noble knight and his lance - in contrast to the Barbarians who would be the Viking berserker, the "wild" Pict painted in woad, the Mongolian horde firing arrows from horseback. Both are in the business of battle, but the most notable difference is one of order vs chaos. The Paladin advances steadily, as a unit, behind a shieldwall, always with some strategy in mind. The Barbarian berserks and goes for the throat. For clarity's sake, I'm speaking very generally. Some barbarians will be smart and educated, just as some Paladins might choose to get away with only doing the bare minimum of their scholarly duties. Mechanically speaking, the major difference between the guilds (apart from magic, which Paladins are tertiary and frankly shouldn't be a focus for the guild) is that while both rely on weapons and armor, Paladins focus on Lore while Barbarians focus on Survival. I'd argue that, again speaking very generally, Paladins should focus more on war and battle while Barbarians would focus more on single combat and disorganized brawls. Sadly, DR doesn't have any mechanics in place for wars/battles that I'm aware of. Add it to the list of pipe dreams.

I also don't think armor is a lost cause. It can (and should) be developed. Developing the armor skillgroup should be towards the top of the priority list for dev time, in my opinion.

<< Paladins focus on Lore while Barbarians focus on Survival. >>

I agreed with most of your post and even this to a degree, but mostly the difference is weapons versus armors.

---

Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:

http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html

>>I'm going to have to agree with Krooner on this. Barbarians aren't barbarians, though some may choose to be. The very existence of the Predator path is pretty good evidence of this.<<

Most people associate barbarians with the Berserkers of old or the Non religious of the customary gods. Even though most Barbarians did have a god. Just not a popular one or well known.

M@c ~]X!j % %AN_rrWB5z4%p rBa =jZb*h[mp,0;pv` knIM%aJ|
******************************************
WARNING: You are carrying an extremely large number of items on your person.
Having a very high number of items can cause character corruption or

>>Not sure what you're saying here Elf. They weren't religious except the ones who were?<<

Sorry one of the problems I have. Most barbarians did have deities just they weren't well know or should I say not respected by the brunt of the population.

M@c ~]X!j % %AN_rrWB5z4%p rBa =jZb*h[mp,0;pv` knIM%aJ|
******************************************
WARNING: You are carrying an extremely large number of items on your person.
Having a very high number of items can cause character corruption or

>>We're discussing the ins and the outs of barbarians vs. paladins in DR, so the religion, or lack of, in real life, doesn't seem relevant to me, that's why I wasn't getting it. Can you explain why that's an important distinction, since I'm missing it?<,

Hmmm I thought the discussion was about A Paladin "theme" and the difference between a Barb and a Paladin.Someone mentioned Barbs in DR didn't have a religious background.But they do not only in DR but real life. So perhaps I shouldn't have included it in the discussion.

M@c ~]X!j % %AN_rrWB5z4%p rBa =jZb*h[mp,0;pv` knIM%aJ|
******************************************
WARNING: You are carrying an extremely large number of items on your person.
Having a very high number of items can cause character corruption or