>Now that roll caps with regard to adding damage. You (roughly speaking) score a 100% "hit" and the OF you generate over what is needed to do that does nothing for you until you hit the overkill range.

Huuuuh. What a shame to actually outgrow a buff. Is this also how TM buffs work?

>>Huuuuh. What a shame to actually outgrow a buff. Is this also how TM buffs work?<<

Yeah. IIRC accuracy for all attack types works this way.

Mazrian

Paladin's get passive armor bonuses. Magic primes get more attunement regen.

I wish there was something sensible and funky and cool in place for barbs beyond offhanding a large weapon amd the thematically but not mechanically cool whirlwind.

Dual load is rad, I think, but it's also shared with rangers. That doesn't invalidate it, but it's not enough on its own. As such some kind of bonus with larger weapons may be a good idea, but as it is a handful of other guilds completely rock face with two handers too. Kind of a bummer.

Maybe barbs need something like in Diablo 3, savage or mighty weapons only they can use.

I dont want to train or use TM spells. I like the idea of not having a penalty with two handed weapons and wearing a small shield. I agree we need SOMETHING to help us generate damage.

I disagree that barbarians are not fun to play. If you like to pvp our tool kit is actually pretty rad and its hard to deny what you can do. Sure a lot of what we do keeps us alive etc.

Can we actually pvp versus an at level cleric or war mage and not get smoked..... probably not but its not as totally bad as you might think.

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Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:

http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html

>I would like to see Barbarians being able to skip the hindrance of a small arm-worn shield using two-handers.

What kind of hindrance do small arm-worn shield pose? That's rhetorical. It's so insignificant that it's minute at best.

>I like the idea of not having a penalty with two handed weapons and wearing a small shield.

There is not a penalty for wearing a small shield and using a 2HE/2HB. The only shield penalties apply to stick bows, and the limitations on what shield+weapon are based on armor/weapon skillset placement.

Shield is another thread though...


Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0

I just want a modest dual wielding tyrium greatswords as one of our abilities.

"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade

There's going to be heavy TM, so why not a heavy version of weapon attacks only usable by barbs (basically an "alpha attack" or AoE cleave better than whirlwind)? In addition to that, how about new weapon templates that are barb only because they require very specific training for effective use?

Attack perks and barb only weapons make way more sense than blowing up global caps by allowing 120 attack stance points on top of weapon buffs.

Heavy TM, IIRC, won't represent an increase in overall DPS, just an additional option for damage. It's sort of equivalent to a CCM in that respect, albeit, better, because it's TM and not a CCM. High alpha does not mean higher DPS.

> Heavy TM, IIRC, won't represent an increase in overall DPS, just an additional option for damage. It's sort of equivalent to a CCM in that respect, albeit, better, because it's TM and not a CCM. High alpha does not mean higher DPS.

My understanding is that heavy TM is a TM spell with increased damage and a cooldown -- that's what the epedia page says, as well. There is no way that this does not increase DPS -- it's a spell that does extra damage, and does not prevent you from casting other spells afterwards. The restriction means you can't spam it, but it still improves DPS. Think about it this way (fake numbers); a standard TM spell kills 100 points of health, a heavy TM spell kills 200. You can cast heavy tm once every 30 seconds, and say it takes you 10 seconds per spell. That means that every 4th is dealing twice as much damage, representing a 25% increased DPS. Now, obviously those numbers are made up but the net should be clear -- any ability that doesn't prevent you from doing other things and does extra damage will improve your sustained DPS (and help to serve as an alpha strike by improving upfront damage, especially for WM, for whom DB is/will be(?) a heavy tm).

> That's not accurate but, hey, maybe you're right and it won't matter if barbs get an alpha strike. Objectively, it sounds like a waste of dev time if it doesn't make people happy.

Objectively, if most guilds have alpha strikes, barbs should have something similar, but if everyone who doesn't currently have them is getting one, there's no reason why it would fix an existing disparity. Failure to keep pace would just make the disparity greater. Maybe heavy TM doesn't apply. I think that's probably more an interpretation thing than anything else. Backstab is presumably an alpha strike, but it isn't restricted from being spammed which is sort of at odds with the definition.

Maybe there's a definitional problem? What is an alpha strike to the two of you? I feel like the idea of an alpha strike, generally, is a 'huge damage that leaves you at risk afterwards' kind of thing. That's at odds with the way that the combat system is written currently. So the best fit is probably a WM with a prepped tm spell, a cyclic, and BG + DB prepped? Backstab fits the mold of 'high damage offense', which I think would be more appealing to more barbs generally as 'high damage then you're significantly at risk' is a problem for hunting.

Don't have too much to add except under casual observation it does seem the non magic using guilds namely barbs and thieves tend to slack against critters along various parts of the circle spectrum. Just opinion though I've never dived into the statistics. One thing I have observed just from reading the forums is how much less the "power compeitition" is between the different classes. If this was Gemstone, the tears would make my computer screen moist. That and I guess most Barbarian primary players I've met tend to be very mature (older) so the whining (which is legit for this matter) could be more constrained.

Anyhow, what I would like to know is... where is Kodius? We haven't heard from him on any subject for quite a while. He still active? I know he had some RL issues to contend with.

>>So the best fit is probably a WM with a prepped tm spell, a cyclic, and BG + DB prepped?

>Overall, I think there's nothing wrong with guilds doing different DPS, especially in different contexts, but the disparity is enormous as it stands, and, AoE Cyclic TM is grossly out of whack with respect to accuracy.

Yeah, there really isn't anything wrong with guilds having different ways to attack. I don't think BG and DB deserve a seat at the PvE table either. You can spam them to kill, what, 2 creatures? The preparation time makes it inefficient to even bother with them while hunting unless you're preparing to overhunt one creature or kill a boss. Attacks that trigger instantly without RT and only a little initial preparation are a different animal.

If the conversation devolves into barbs vs. WM, then we'll get nowhere fast.

>I just am a little shocked people think Barbs are weak. They are probably on the stronger side of the pendulum vs most guilds. Big barbs are scary.

In PvP. PvE is another story -- what makes Barbs good in PvP is their defenses (which presumably will change in the barrier review), most of which aren't useful in PvE.

In PvE, the guild that should be the best with weapons is subpar, given similar ranks, due to abilities.

>Yes it is - Backstab's damage bonus is on a 30s CD.

So presumably heavy TM will be similar? 30s isn't that long of a cycle.

> Overall, I think there's nothing wrong with guilds doing different DPS, especially in different contexts

I agree! I think the issue is the DPS gap is significant for the guild you would probably think is described as being one of the best at it is middling at best.

Not all guilds should have the same sustained DPS or burst DPS or etc. The question is what's reasonable and how all the guilds get to that reasonable level. Right now, barbs are significantly behind most guilds in both -- in sustained because they lack the equivalent of both cyclic tm and tm woven between attacks -- and in burst because they lack both 'press this button for higher damage right now' ala backstab or heavy tm, and the sustained sources that can add significant burst damage if they trigger at the right now.

>>Heavy TM IIRC is on a 5 MINUTE CD.

The timer is variable and based on TM skill. IDK what the max time is but my WM was getting like 2 and a half minutes in Test.

Mazrian

>The timer is variable and based on TM skill. IDK what the max time is but my WM was getting like 2 and a half minutes in Test.

Heavy TM on test was on a reduced cooldown for... testing.

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Re: Life mana Spell preps

You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.

<but I kind of feel like Moon Mages and Rangers, and of course traders too technically but they are traders, have a weaker toolkit than Barbs.>

I can only speak for rangers. I have played both rangers and barbs up to 100+ circle.

My ranger does more DPS than my barb very easily. It's not even really close.

I'm not sure what you mean by toolkit, though. Just strictly speaking DPS.

Really? I find rangers to be kind of weak. Kind of a poor mans barbarian if anything else. I guess to each their own.

Moonmage seems powerful in PVE because of the survival being secondary, but they have so much limitation on their damage right now, I'm not sure I'd say they can dish out more damage than a barbarian. But skill based game, so ymmv. I'm really not trying to troll here, just surprised anyone would think barb is the "weakest", I feel like they can overhunt so well.

>Moonmage seems powerful...

I think one thing to remember is that MUs are relying on stats that double or even triple dip in their utility. Barbarians rely on Strength and Agility for their damage output, and those are only useful in vs Reflexes as a secondary, and vs Willpower as a tertiary. Compare to Discipline which is used in both vs Fortitude as a secondary, and vs Willpower as a primary, and you see that Discipline is more useful for defensive stat contests. Which is fine and good, except Discipline is ALSO the primary stat involved in accuracy for TM, meaning MUs are going to pump it anyway.

An MU can easily get away with ignoring Strength and Agility past a certain point, and not really suffer any consequences in PvP (maybe fare a bit poorer in vs Reflex, so fine, push Agility a little further which will further facilitate the lighter weapons they're probably training for funsies), but a Barbarian cannot get away with ignoring Wisdom and Intelligence if they want to be able to resist anything an MU throws at them. And yes, I know Barbarians have great anti-magic and anti SvS abilities, but given the incredibly limited training slots, and incredibly limited number of abilities that can be run simultaneously (sans picking up 3 masteries), this is still an issue.

I think this is a sort of kind of problem across the board, that Discipline, Wisdom, and Intelligence are over factored into everything, and some stats are kind of left out, making TDP investment in them potentially less useful. Strength and Charisma come to mind most. It's a sort of funny shift away from the days when Agility was the king stat.

>I mean even with the barrier review you are forgetting volcano which is pretty amazing.

Volcano is a waste of a slot especially if you using it in PVP against MU opponent. There is no real reason to use it in PVE. Just die and move on.

Rhadyn da Dwarb - Blood for fire!

Barbarian Guild Suggestions
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h4L5hAxR1-VLDegDNZBIhGdo5bMgnCtm84Icm2E0utU/edit#gid=0

>>I think it's more about stating a "fact" than advice. When one looks at the MU characters posted on Elanthia Profiles one will see that 90%+ of the MU characters that are not at end game (100+ in all stats) the statement is true.

You'd have to restate the statement to make it specific enough to bounce up against any data. Like...most people seem to deprioritize Charisma and that is pretty clear from looking at profiles. It's not obvious that MUs ignore Strength and Agility.



Mazrian

>This is really bad advice. =(

Is it? I'm asking, not trying to argue - most characters I know ignore strength after a certain point, including barbarians. I think some of the top barbs here have actually posted or talked about more or less stopping strength training after a certain point (usually once their weapon of choice is down to min RT) because they get more out of other stats than strength.

My point was more that it seems stats are not created equal, across guilds but especially so for MUs, and as a result, some stats tend to be deprioritized over others. Personally, I think all stats should be equally important across guilds, but I'm not sure how to do that properly. While I see the utility in putting everything on the same system, I think it's a shame that Bards for example still don't have any more use for Charisma (other than a few Charm vs spells).