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>>and no I dont have Raw Attunement and dont want it
Can I ask why not? Is there a downside to that feat?
APATHETICSMILE
ELRIIC
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 02:44 PM CST
>> Can I ask why not? Is there a downside to that feat?
Ditto. I love it on my Warrior Mage.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 02:44 PM CST
>>All I know is that right now it eats mana (and no I dont have Raw Attunement and dont want it) super fast.
I think you need to give up and try raw attunement, at least in test.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
I think you need to give up and try raw attunement, at least in test.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 02:47 PM CST
The notion that people are only attracted to MMOs because they can be the most powerful characters in the game NOW flies in the face of every MMO out there. People still sign up for WoW not because they think "Oh man, with a bit of luck, I'll be the best there ever was!" but because it's a good game. No one is going to NOT play a game because there are high level players in it.
In fact, EVE Online is a phenomenal example of why you are so wrong in your assertion; in a game where players are out of the box able to interact with massive PvP, no player looks at, say, a Titan pilot and says "Man, forget this noise, there's already someone on top, I better quit now!"
In fact, EVE Online is a phenomenal example of why you are so wrong in your assertion; in a game where players are out of the box able to interact with massive PvP, no player looks at, say, a Titan pilot and says "Man, forget this noise, there's already someone on top, I better quit now!"
OLSONM6
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 02:50 PM CST
>That said, I don't know if all cyclics pulse at the same rate.
All cyclics don't pulse at the same rate.
How does moongate work? Are the fast pulses just an issue of keeping the gate open long enough for people to walk through? Or does it need to pulse a certain number of times before the gate even opens?
All cyclics don't pulse at the same rate.
How does moongate work? Are the fast pulses just an issue of keeping the gate open long enough for people to walk through? Or does it need to pulse a certain number of times before the gate even opens?
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:07 PM CST
>>decreases the accessability
I think this is profoundly untrue. Even if we just take into account the HELP changes, the game is WAY easier to understand for a new player.
>> The changes are not so crazy as people seem to be making them out to be.
Yeah, anybody claiming that the changes are too large should spend some time in Test.
>>ya, what Jhalia said. It's not so different that its that hard to learn new routines. If even an old-timer like me can adjust platside
I'm going to rib on you just a little bit, because I know you'll take it in stride - If somebody who still uses Netscape can adapt to DR3, anybody can.
>>P.S. Yes, I know I said I wouldn't post on this again, but I wanted to clear that up.
Two last words is enough - If you want to talk about this more, come to Simucon and we'll talk until the sun comes up. I want to keep the signal/noise of the DR3 forums down as low as I can. This does go for the whole thread - The discussion about a fresh, uncluttered instance of DR ends with this post.
Let's pick up on some good threads in this one, though:
- Ways DR3 makes the game easier/harder to play
- How DR3 affects the new player experience
- Significant ways that DR3 changes the way you play
Thanks guys!
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
I think this is profoundly untrue. Even if we just take into account the HELP changes, the game is WAY easier to understand for a new player.
>> The changes are not so crazy as people seem to be making them out to be.
Yeah, anybody claiming that the changes are too large should spend some time in Test.
>>ya, what Jhalia said. It's not so different that its that hard to learn new routines. If even an old-timer like me can adjust platside
I'm going to rib on you just a little bit, because I know you'll take it in stride - If somebody who still uses Netscape can adapt to DR3, anybody can.
>>P.S. Yes, I know I said I wouldn't post on this again, but I wanted to clear that up.
Two last words is enough - If you want to talk about this more, come to Simucon and we'll talk until the sun comes up. I want to keep the signal/noise of the DR3 forums down as low as I can. This does go for the whole thread - The discussion about a fresh, uncluttered instance of DR ends with this post.
Let's pick up on some good threads in this one, though:
- Ways DR3 makes the game easier/harder to play
- How DR3 affects the new player experience
- Significant ways that DR3 changes the way you play
Thanks guys!
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
DARKANGEL23
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:09 PM CST
>>Can I ask why not? Is there a downside to that feat?
You certainly may. I actually think the feat is very interesting. I dont want it for two reasons (and yes I have tested it already).
1) Moon mages have 4 cyclic spells SOV, MG, SLS, and SM. Three of those have no need to run out of attunement due to being able to be used outside of combat with relative ease and they arent needed for more than a short time.
2) I dont like the pulse going straight out of my attunement. What if I start prepping a large spell and it sucks out too much mana before I can cast? What if I only want to use 30 mana on the spell... now I need to hawk eye my attunement for pulses to make sure it doesnt go over. And with the current speed of pulses I just dont like that much pulling out of my attunement that fast. Min prep cyclics are trivial with raw attunement but I still see the effects of the pulses on the higher preps.
It really comes down to the first reason more than anything. And I already have the cautious harnessing due to walking the Ways often so I dont see a need to burn multiple spell slots on something Ill only use once in a while. On top of that I dont think I should be required to take a feat to make a spell viable. SLS has a ton of drawbacks as it is (only at night, no water areas) so not having it be at least baseline efficient without the feat just makes me even less interested in using it.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
You certainly may. I actually think the feat is very interesting. I dont want it for two reasons (and yes I have tested it already).
1) Moon mages have 4 cyclic spells SOV, MG, SLS, and SM. Three of those have no need to run out of attunement due to being able to be used outside of combat with relative ease and they arent needed for more than a short time.
2) I dont like the pulse going straight out of my attunement. What if I start prepping a large spell and it sucks out too much mana before I can cast? What if I only want to use 30 mana on the spell... now I need to hawk eye my attunement for pulses to make sure it doesnt go over. And with the current speed of pulses I just dont like that much pulling out of my attunement that fast. Min prep cyclics are trivial with raw attunement but I still see the effects of the pulses on the higher preps.
It really comes down to the first reason more than anything. And I already have the cautious harnessing due to walking the Ways often so I dont see a need to burn multiple spell slots on something Ill only use once in a while. On top of that I dont think I should be required to take a feat to make a spell viable. SLS has a ton of drawbacks as it is (only at night, no water areas) so not having it be at least baseline efficient without the feat just makes me even less interested in using it.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
BEVERAGEK
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:13 PM CST
- Ways DR3 makes the game easier/harder to play
Kind of harder as I have to watch fatigue and # of enemies a bit more. Easier in that I don't get one-shot anymore :3
- How DR3 affects the new player experience
Definitely leaps and bounds easier. The magic system in 2.0 feels very clunky compared to 3.0 IMO. Also, combat feels a lot more smooth.
- Significant ways that DR3 changes the way you play
No more SING <cyclic spell> as a Bard :P Too bad it can't make its return in the form of another verb that doesn't have to deal with weird parsing.
Also, being able to stack spells is drastically different for me(also as a Bard) in 3.0. This is a Good thing.
PvP is going to be an entirely different beast in 3.0, and I look forward to testing with others once everything is said and done this weekend!
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
Kind of harder as I have to watch fatigue and # of enemies a bit more. Easier in that I don't get one-shot anymore :3
- How DR3 affects the new player experience
Definitely leaps and bounds easier. The magic system in 2.0 feels very clunky compared to 3.0 IMO. Also, combat feels a lot more smooth.
- Significant ways that DR3 changes the way you play
No more SING <cyclic spell> as a Bard :P Too bad it can't make its return in the form of another verb that doesn't have to deal with weird parsing.
Also, being able to stack spells is drastically different for me(also as a Bard) in 3.0. This is a Good thing.
PvP is going to be an entirely different beast in 3.0, and I look forward to testing with others once everything is said and done this weekend!
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
ZEYPHAN
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:16 PM CST
Sounds like the raw channeling feat could use a toggle so you can choose when to use it and when not to.
~Minstrel Ascot, Bladesinger of M'riss
~Minstrel Ascot, Bladesinger of M'riss
TEVESHSZAT
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:21 PM CST
>>Moon mages have 4 cyclic spells SOV, MG, SLS, and SM. Three of those have no need to run out of attunement due to being able to be used outside of combat with relative ease and they arent needed for more than a short time.
Unless invisibility in combat changed, SoV would grant you a free/easy ambush attack every time it refreshes. I liked doing that with Eyes of the Blind.
You also lock yourself out of any sorcery/other guild cyclic you may want to use.
You could always just imagine that SLS costs you 3 slots.
>>I dont like the pulse going straight out of my attunement. What if I start prepping a large spell and it sucks out too much mana before I can cast?
Then you release the cyclic before casting...
>>now I need to hawk eye my attunement for pulses to make sure it doesnt go over.
I don't know if you need to hawk eye anything. At least in my experience, if you're capable of running a cyclic for a very prolonged amount of time, you eventually hit a point where the amount of attunement you have stabilizes as a result of the attunement you regain increasing as you spend it. In some rooms I hover around 95%, others 90%, and others 50%.
>>And with the current speed of pulses I just dont like that much pulling out of my attunement that fast.
Now that someone confirmed what I thought was the case, keep in mind that not all cyclics pulse at the same rate. SLS pulses at the speed it does because it attacks quickly. If it attacked slower, it would pulse slower.
>>Min prep cyclics are trivial with raw attunement but I still see the effects of the pulses on the higher preps.
IMO that's part of what makes having more skill appealing. Sure, you can handle running a cyclic at X now, but with more skill you can run it at X+Y. It's something to grow into.
>>And I already have the cautious harnessing due to walking the Ways often so I dont see a need to burn multiple spell slots on something Ill only use once in a while.
It might be cool/fun to have walking the ways somehow run on raw channeling.
Once again, keep in mind that if SLS pulses slower, then you're going to have a spell that attacks at a slower rate. I'm not sure why that would be desirable. You're asking for a spell to be less effective because you don't want to learn a feat. It just comes off as a bit wonky.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Unless invisibility in combat changed, SoV would grant you a free/easy ambush attack every time it refreshes. I liked doing that with Eyes of the Blind.
You also lock yourself out of any sorcery/other guild cyclic you may want to use.
You could always just imagine that SLS costs you 3 slots.
>>I dont like the pulse going straight out of my attunement. What if I start prepping a large spell and it sucks out too much mana before I can cast?
Then you release the cyclic before casting...
>>now I need to hawk eye my attunement for pulses to make sure it doesnt go over.
I don't know if you need to hawk eye anything. At least in my experience, if you're capable of running a cyclic for a very prolonged amount of time, you eventually hit a point where the amount of attunement you have stabilizes as a result of the attunement you regain increasing as you spend it. In some rooms I hover around 95%, others 90%, and others 50%.
>>And with the current speed of pulses I just dont like that much pulling out of my attunement that fast.
Now that someone confirmed what I thought was the case, keep in mind that not all cyclics pulse at the same rate. SLS pulses at the speed it does because it attacks quickly. If it attacked slower, it would pulse slower.
>>Min prep cyclics are trivial with raw attunement but I still see the effects of the pulses on the higher preps.
IMO that's part of what makes having more skill appealing. Sure, you can handle running a cyclic at X now, but with more skill you can run it at X+Y. It's something to grow into.
>>And I already have the cautious harnessing due to walking the Ways often so I dont see a need to burn multiple spell slots on something Ill only use once in a while.
It might be cool/fun to have walking the ways somehow run on raw channeling.
Once again, keep in mind that if SLS pulses slower, then you're going to have a spell that attacks at a slower rate. I'm not sure why that would be desirable. You're asking for a spell to be less effective because you don't want to learn a feat. It just comes off as a bit wonky.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
TEVESHSZAT
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:24 PM CST
>>Sounds like the raw channeling feat could use a toggle so you can choose when to use it and when not to.
Cyclics already prioritize using held mana and/or cambrinth that is permitted to use cyclics. If you need to toggle beyond that, you should probably just turn off the cyclic for a bit.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
Cyclics already prioritize using held mana and/or cambrinth that is permitted to use cyclics. If you need to toggle beyond that, you should probably just turn off the cyclic for a bit.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
ZEYPHAN
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:27 PM CST
>Cyclics already prioritize using held mana and/or cambrinth that is permitted to use cyclics.
Wasn't aware of that. Never mind then.
~Minstrel Ascot, Bladesinger of M'riss
Wasn't aware of that. Never mind then.
~Minstrel Ascot, Bladesinger of M'riss
ILLIENA
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:27 PM CST
> Sounds like the raw channeling feat could use a toggle so you can choose when to use it and when not to.
If it were toggled off, the effect would be that your cyclic would end. "release cyclic" serves as an equivalent toggle.
If it were toggled off, the effect would be that your cyclic would end. "release cyclic" serves as an equivalent toggle.
DUNEPLAY
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:46 PM CST
In defense of "stupid" people, let me relate my own experience. I read and post in the forums in a few folders so I knew this change was coming. I still didn't know Epedia had such a wealth of info about 3.0 until Caraamon kindly pointed me there. Now there is a nice bright link to 3.0 at the top of the page (which I like). So read through what I thought was relevant stuff and went off to test. I have never been in a test instance before so I was clueless on chatter and jump shards. Kind folks told me. I still found it hard to adjust to magic so I went and re-read stuff. And you know what? With having to learn new spells and their catagories, and having to learn which spells are aligned to which element, I still get confused.
So please folks, if you see a lost poor soul, don't automatically assume they are totally ignorant and stupid. We just might be confused. Playing multiple characters means learning totally new things in each guild. Sure, it will all work itself out and in a few weeks I won't even notice the differences anymore. But in the meantime, please be considerate to those are confused.
I was thinking, perhaps the GMs could publish a book like "DR3 101" but that probably wouldn't help things. Since folks do tend to avoid having to look at another computer page. I wish I had a printer I could print Epedia stuff on, but I will learn. I do hope the GMs will post something like the Twilight Zone as a first page when we first log onto DR3. Something like "You are now entering DR3" with just a few things to remember (mana recovering opposite of what it does now, don't snapcast spells, your spells have been lost and you must pick them again and that there are magic feats to choose from as well, combat moves are independent of each other and has pros and cons).
Anyway looking forward to Saturday so I can leave the apprehensions behind!
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
So please folks, if you see a lost poor soul, don't automatically assume they are totally ignorant and stupid. We just might be confused. Playing multiple characters means learning totally new things in each guild. Sure, it will all work itself out and in a few weeks I won't even notice the differences anymore. But in the meantime, please be considerate to those are confused.
I was thinking, perhaps the GMs could publish a book like "DR3 101" but that probably wouldn't help things. Since folks do tend to avoid having to look at another computer page. I wish I had a printer I could print Epedia stuff on, but I will learn. I do hope the GMs will post something like the Twilight Zone as a first page when we first log onto DR3. Something like "You are now entering DR3" with just a few things to remember (mana recovering opposite of what it does now, don't snapcast spells, your spells have been lost and you must pick them again and that there are magic feats to choose from as well, combat moves are independent of each other and has pros and cons).
Anyway looking forward to Saturday so I can leave the apprehensions behind!
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
DARKANGEL23
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:54 PM CST
>>You're asking for a spell to be less effective because you don't want to learn a feat.
And youre saying that I have to learn a feat to be effective. If its required to be effective then it should simply be given to all MU players.
>>You also lock yourself out of any sorcery/other guild cyclic you may want to use.
Again... this is more or less saying that you have to have Raw Channeling or you will be getting the short end of the stick. Which I 1) dont think is true in most cases and 2) dont think should EVER be the case. Raw Attunement is supposed to be a neat little addition but Im disturbed to see it being toted more and more as a required feat. In such a case I think the GMs need to look at it and nerf the crap out of it. Not because I have any issue with it in any way but if its at a point where folks are more or less saying that youd be stupid and gimped not to have it then I think theres a problem. And no no one has been quite that blunt but the overall concensus has been that.
>>Then you release the cyclic before casting...
This is my saying that the pulses are too fast. In combat scroll its easy to miss the pulse messages until its a tad too late.
>>SoV would grant you a free/easy ambush attack every time it refreshes.
I havent retested but Im pretty sure this really doesnt teach anything that ATTACK doesnt. I dont believe you get stealth exp for just standing (unhidden) invisible and ambushing. And invis doesnt grant any hiding bonus that Ive been able to discern so its less effective then just HIDE AMBUSH.
>>keep in mind that if SLS pulses slower, then you're going to have a spell that attacks at a slower rate.
Youve said this several times but Ive never heard anything that said if the pulses slowed any then the sphere would just as much. A GM can feel free to correct me at any time but I dont see how setting the pulse to a set time rather than per action would break the spell in any way.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
And youre saying that I have to learn a feat to be effective. If its required to be effective then it should simply be given to all MU players.
>>You also lock yourself out of any sorcery/other guild cyclic you may want to use.
Again... this is more or less saying that you have to have Raw Channeling or you will be getting the short end of the stick. Which I 1) dont think is true in most cases and 2) dont think should EVER be the case. Raw Attunement is supposed to be a neat little addition but Im disturbed to see it being toted more and more as a required feat. In such a case I think the GMs need to look at it and nerf the crap out of it. Not because I have any issue with it in any way but if its at a point where folks are more or less saying that youd be stupid and gimped not to have it then I think theres a problem. And no no one has been quite that blunt but the overall concensus has been that.
>>Then you release the cyclic before casting...
This is my saying that the pulses are too fast. In combat scroll its easy to miss the pulse messages until its a tad too late.
>>SoV would grant you a free/easy ambush attack every time it refreshes.
I havent retested but Im pretty sure this really doesnt teach anything that ATTACK doesnt. I dont believe you get stealth exp for just standing (unhidden) invisible and ambushing. And invis doesnt grant any hiding bonus that Ive been able to discern so its less effective then just HIDE AMBUSH.
>>keep in mind that if SLS pulses slower, then you're going to have a spell that attacks at a slower rate.
Youve said this several times but Ive never heard anything that said if the pulses slowed any then the sphere would just as much. A GM can feel free to correct me at any time but I dont see how setting the pulse to a set time rather than per action would break the spell in any way.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
DUNEPLAY
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:56 PM CST
<<Teveshat's post on how the changes really help improve the game>>
I'm so glad you posted this. I haven't had the time and sometimes the inclination to play in test as often as I would have liked. So really appreciate your posts about how things are a little different but vastly improve your game.
When I was in test I did love that I didn't die right off the bat. I didn't know about learning scrolls and using them.
I will remember your post as I adjust to DR3.
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
I'm so glad you posted this. I haven't had the time and sometimes the inclination to play in test as often as I would have liked. So really appreciate your posts about how things are a little different but vastly improve your game.
When I was in test I did love that I didn't die right off the bat. I didn't know about learning scrolls and using them.
I will remember your post as I adjust to DR3.
Zinaca and her fully-grown raccoon, Shadow
BEVERAGEK
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 03:56 PM CST
With cambrinth now as a substantial mana battery, Raw Attunement is by no means "required". Raw Attunement is more of a convenience for when you don't want/have to worry about preparing mana ahead of time.
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
~ Leilond
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h307/ss1shadow/Leilond_Progression.jpg
TEVESHSZAT
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 04:02 PM CST
>>And youre saying that I have to learn a feat to be effective.
But I'm not.
You can show up with more cambrinth, you can harness more during combat, you can stop using the spell after it does a certain amount of damage, or you can learn raw channeling.
Having the spell draw mana slower isn't really going to make SLS any more effective for you, because each pulse is also when it does an attack. It's like me asking USOL to pulse slower: sure it'll pulse slower, but the tradeoff is that it would do it's attack at a slower rate. I'm not sure that is something that people, including you, would necessarily want.
>>Again... this is more or less saying that you have to have Raw Channeling or you will be getting the short end of the stick.
No, this is me saying that if you dislike all your other options, raw channeling is available. Those other options have bonuses that raw channeling doesn't, like being more mana effective in their own ways. But if your big issue is being able to keep putting mana into it, then your resolution would be raw channeling. If your big issue was not being able to handle feeding it because the pulses take too much, your resolution would be cambrinth/harnessing/etc.
>>In combat scroll its easy to miss the pulse messages until its a tad too late.
...then highlight the messages. Or just release it ahead of time knowing it will happen.
>>I havent retested but Im pretty sure this really doesnt teach anything that ATTACK doesnt.
Ambush doesn't boost to hit and/or damage?
>>And invis doesnt grant any hiding bonus that Ive been able to discern so its less effective then just HIDE AMBUSH.
It's more effective that you don't have to hide to ambush, though. If invisibility still does this in 3.0 (I'm pretty sure it does).
>>Youve said this several times but Ive never heard anything that said if the pulses slowed any then the sphere would just as much.
You've been saying that a pulse happens each time the sphere does something, right? If the sphere response rate is tied to the pulse rate, then it's reasonable to believe that slower pulses mean slower responses. That's how I believe all cyclic attacks (maybe all cyclics period?) works. A pulse of the cyclic is a draw from your reserves. RoC pulses each time it eats up some mana. USOL pulses each time it eats up some mana. Hodernia's Lilt pulses each time it eats up some mana. Etc.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
But I'm not.
You can show up with more cambrinth, you can harness more during combat, you can stop using the spell after it does a certain amount of damage, or you can learn raw channeling.
Having the spell draw mana slower isn't really going to make SLS any more effective for you, because each pulse is also when it does an attack. It's like me asking USOL to pulse slower: sure it'll pulse slower, but the tradeoff is that it would do it's attack at a slower rate. I'm not sure that is something that people, including you, would necessarily want.
>>Again... this is more or less saying that you have to have Raw Channeling or you will be getting the short end of the stick.
No, this is me saying that if you dislike all your other options, raw channeling is available. Those other options have bonuses that raw channeling doesn't, like being more mana effective in their own ways. But if your big issue is being able to keep putting mana into it, then your resolution would be raw channeling. If your big issue was not being able to handle feeding it because the pulses take too much, your resolution would be cambrinth/harnessing/etc.
>>In combat scroll its easy to miss the pulse messages until its a tad too late.
...then highlight the messages. Or just release it ahead of time knowing it will happen.
>>I havent retested but Im pretty sure this really doesnt teach anything that ATTACK doesnt.
Ambush doesn't boost to hit and/or damage?
>>And invis doesnt grant any hiding bonus that Ive been able to discern so its less effective then just HIDE AMBUSH.
It's more effective that you don't have to hide to ambush, though. If invisibility still does this in 3.0 (I'm pretty sure it does).
>>Youve said this several times but Ive never heard anything that said if the pulses slowed any then the sphere would just as much.
You've been saying that a pulse happens each time the sphere does something, right? If the sphere response rate is tied to the pulse rate, then it's reasonable to believe that slower pulses mean slower responses. That's how I believe all cyclic attacks (maybe all cyclics period?) works. A pulse of the cyclic is a draw from your reserves. RoC pulses each time it eats up some mana. USOL pulses each time it eats up some mana. Hodernia's Lilt pulses each time it eats up some mana. Etc.
The teeth lands a solid (5/23) hit that pokes the teeth into Turul's rear end (more embarrassing than painful!).
ELRIIC
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 04:04 PM CST
<<With cambrinth now as a substantial mana battery, Raw Attunement is by no means "required". Raw Attunement is more of a convenience for when you don't want/have to worry about preparing mana ahead of time.
This. Raw attunement is one of many ways to feed your cyclics. Seems silly to not take it.
GRIM45
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 04:15 PM CST
>>I want to keep the signal/noise of the DR3 forums down as low as I can.
Reverse that ;-)
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Reverse that ;-)
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
DARKANGEL23
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 04:23 PM CST
>>Having the spell draw mana slower isn't really going to make SLS any more effective for you, because each pulse is also when it does an attack.
This is turning into a brick wall conversation heh. Youre not hearing what Im saying. Im attempting to figure out if pulse is tied to movement for a reason. If its a mechanical issue that cant be avoided then cest la vie. If on the other hand its not necessary then I think the spell would work better if movement wasnt tied to the pulse. To better visualize my suggestion Id rather SLS pulsed at say 1 pulse per 10 sec (Im using arbitrary numbers here) and during each pulse it could move and attack as often as its mechanics allowed. As it is currently you lose mana on it advancing which seems wasteful to me since it just burned up to 20 mana doing no damage etc.
>>Ambush doesn't boost to hit and/or damage?
In 3.0 from my tests this is a trivial amount. Youre spending more time doing that then just attacking and gaining little to nothing.
>>If invisibility still does this in 3.0 (I'm pretty sure it does).
It does. You can ambush as soon as invis goes up. Keep in mind this is also a pointless part of the conversation since RF is no longer a held mana spell and will reform during the duration. Making holding mana for SOV pointless. Just cast RF once and be done. I dont see many instances where Ill need to hide a group of people, much less invis a group of people to ambush something (maybe that super random rare boss monster theyve talked of?).
>>Seems silly to not take it.
And this is becoming an issue with it in my eyes. Its turning into the status quo. At that point why is it not just given to anyone and you can avoid harnessing mana all together? On a more personal note I again point out that I only have 4 cyclic spells.. MG (Its not open long enough for it to be an issue), SOV (again I can RF if I want to do the ambush trick and not hold mana at all, I dont see the need to RF a group often enough to worry about my mana usage), SM (Again I dont need to use it for very long since I dont shift room by room across continents.. the 3 sec RT would be brutal that way), and SLS which is the only one that would benefit from it. Why burn a slot for one spell that Im not even all that interested in? Im not going to burn it for sorcery reasons either since there arent any cyclic spells from other guilds that Im terribly interested in that I know for sure will be in the scroll system (remember theyve said there will be a larger variety but they havent been clear which spells are exempt yet other than the vague signature spells).
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
This is turning into a brick wall conversation heh. Youre not hearing what Im saying. Im attempting to figure out if pulse is tied to movement for a reason. If its a mechanical issue that cant be avoided then cest la vie. If on the other hand its not necessary then I think the spell would work better if movement wasnt tied to the pulse. To better visualize my suggestion Id rather SLS pulsed at say 1 pulse per 10 sec (Im using arbitrary numbers here) and during each pulse it could move and attack as often as its mechanics allowed. As it is currently you lose mana on it advancing which seems wasteful to me since it just burned up to 20 mana doing no damage etc.
>>Ambush doesn't boost to hit and/or damage?
In 3.0 from my tests this is a trivial amount. Youre spending more time doing that then just attacking and gaining little to nothing.
>>If invisibility still does this in 3.0 (I'm pretty sure it does).
It does. You can ambush as soon as invis goes up. Keep in mind this is also a pointless part of the conversation since RF is no longer a held mana spell and will reform during the duration. Making holding mana for SOV pointless. Just cast RF once and be done. I dont see many instances where Ill need to hide a group of people, much less invis a group of people to ambush something (maybe that super random rare boss monster theyve talked of?).
>>Seems silly to not take it.
And this is becoming an issue with it in my eyes. Its turning into the status quo. At that point why is it not just given to anyone and you can avoid harnessing mana all together? On a more personal note I again point out that I only have 4 cyclic spells.. MG (Its not open long enough for it to be an issue), SOV (again I can RF if I want to do the ambush trick and not hold mana at all, I dont see the need to RF a group often enough to worry about my mana usage), SM (Again I dont need to use it for very long since I dont shift room by room across continents.. the 3 sec RT would be brutal that way), and SLS which is the only one that would benefit from it. Why burn a slot for one spell that Im not even all that interested in? Im not going to burn it for sorcery reasons either since there arent any cyclic spells from other guilds that Im terribly interested in that I know for sure will be in the scroll system (remember theyve said there will be a larger variety but they havent been clear which spells are exempt yet other than the vague signature spells).
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 04:31 PM CST
>>>>Seems silly to not take it.
I think the important thing is, he's trading a spell slot for not having it. Now that camb has a better place as a mana battery, and harness is slightly more efficient, raw channeling is by no means required to be able to cast cyclics, but it does help if you want what it gives you.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
I think the important thing is, he's trading a spell slot for not having it. Now that camb has a better place as a mana battery, and harness is slightly more efficient, raw channeling is by no means required to be able to cast cyclics, but it does help if you want what it gives you.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 04:35 PM CST
>So please folks, if you see a lost poor soul, don't automatically assume they are totally ignorant and stupid.
I'm not! I'm actually quite patient with these sorts of things. But it's all in the approach;
"This sucks and I hate it and nothing makes sense and it's worse and SIMU is terribad for gutting the game I love!" is frustrating to deal with, and difficult to help.
"Wait, I'm confused; why is my Scimitar training this skill called Small Edge now?" is something I can absolutely understand asking, and I will respectfully explain!
Most of the complaining that I've heard both in test and on the forums are of the former, not the latter variety.
As for Raw Channeling; the additional security it provides to keep a cyclic up if you accidentally let your cambrinth empty and forget to harness mana seems worth it in and of itself. For less magical guilds (Paladins, Rangers) I can understand putting it off, (Wait, do they even have cyclics?) but ultimately, I think it seems pretty useful.
I'm not! I'm actually quite patient with these sorts of things. But it's all in the approach;
"This sucks and I hate it and nothing makes sense and it's worse and SIMU is terribad for gutting the game I love!" is frustrating to deal with, and difficult to help.
"Wait, I'm confused; why is my Scimitar training this skill called Small Edge now?" is something I can absolutely understand asking, and I will respectfully explain!
Most of the complaining that I've heard both in test and on the forums are of the former, not the latter variety.
As for Raw Channeling; the additional security it provides to keep a cyclic up if you accidentally let your cambrinth empty and forget to harness mana seems worth it in and of itself. For less magical guilds (Paladins, Rangers) I can understand putting it off, (Wait, do they even have cyclics?) but ultimately, I think it seems pretty useful.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 04:47 PM CST
>>Most of the complaining that I've heard both in test and on the forums are of the former, not the latter variety.
I'll be totally honest - The level of 'sky is falling' and 'holy crap I'm leaving and taking my 32 accounts with me' has been WAY lower than I expected. I'm really happy with the number of very-informed people that will be able to help people out on Saturday. Having test open these last few months has been a lifesaver.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
I'll be totally honest - The level of 'sky is falling' and 'holy crap I'm leaving and taking my 32 accounts with me' has been WAY lower than I expected. I'm really happy with the number of very-informed people that will be able to help people out on Saturday. Having test open these last few months has been a lifesaver.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
DARKANGEL23
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 04:48 PM CST
>>Having test open these last few months has been a lifesaver.
You guys shouldnt leave yourselves out of the praise. Its not totally cause Test has been up. You all have been very forthcoming with information and patient enough to repeat it a few times when we dont understand.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
You guys shouldnt leave yourselves out of the praise. Its not totally cause Test has been up. You all have been very forthcoming with information and patient enough to repeat it a few times when we dont understand.
~Tezirite Renzar Lorrani
"Power is merely a stepping stone to more power."
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 04:50 PM CST
>>Most of the complaining that I've heard both in test and on the forums are of the former, not the latter variety.
I consider it training for the week to come. I imagine the words "Mana regens slower when it's lower" will be burned into every GM, Host, and Mentor's head by Sunday evening.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
I consider it training for the week to come. I imagine the words "Mana regens slower when it's lower" will be burned into every GM, Host, and Mentor's head by Sunday evening.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 05:05 PM CST
Yeah, I want to second that you guys have done a stellar job working on 3.0, and working with us as we test it. Finding a bug, reporting it on the forums, and having a response and often a fix posted within hours or sometimes minutes has been a pretty cool experience.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 05:08 PM CST
>>Yeah, I want to second that you guys have done a stellar job working on 3.0, and working with us as we test it. Finding a bug, reporting it on the forums, and having a response and often a fix posted within hours or sometimes minutes has been a pretty cool experience.
It's a crazy idea, but I kind of want this to be the norm. Not necessarily minutes, but days. Granted, some systems like horses and boats need a 3.0-style treatment before they can be that fast, but I want to be able to take care of these issues and get them done rather than having them language for decades.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
It's a crazy idea, but I kind of want this to be the norm. Not necessarily minutes, but days. Granted, some systems like horses and boats need a 3.0-style treatment before they can be that fast, but I want to be able to take care of these issues and get them done rather than having them language for decades.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
DUNEPLAY
Re: 3.0 release and feats
01/15/2013 06:42 PM CST
Ok, I have found I love feats. But some feats are not as valuable for me since I'm a little warmie. The kicker is, I don't really know how each feat will affect my spells yet. I'm thinking that feats will be available from now on right? So my question is this, will there be advice on feats being usable for which kind of magic? And because it's so tempting to get all of the feats, can we at some point, drop some and relearn some later when we can use it. I'm thinking about cyclic spells...I really suck at cyclic spells and metaspells I can't even do...so if I choose those feats that are meant for such kinds of magic, can I unlearn them and relearn them later in my life?
Ithyn
Ithyn
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: 3.0 release and feats
01/15/2013 06:44 PM CST
Once we drop everything off of global preview, we'll probably also do a feat wipe (it's only fair).
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
ELRIIC
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 06:48 PM CST
<<I'll be totally honest - The level of 'sky is falling' and 'holy crap I'm leaving and taking my 32 accounts with me' has been WAY lower than I expected. I'm really happy with the number of very-informed people that will be able to help people out on Saturday. Having test open these last few months has been a lifesaver.
For my part I'll be hanging out by Oz and doing what I can, aside from when I'm getting massacred during Kantons doing it for the first time with a new skill set while begging for mercy.....
ELRIIC
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 06:50 PM CST
<<It's a crazy idea, but I kind of want this to be the norm. Not necessarily minutes, but days. Granted, some systems like horses and boats need a 3.0-style treatment before they can be that fast, but I want to be able to take care of these issues and get them done rather than having them language for decades.
Biceps, Not Bicep. You can do it. You know you want to do it. Be my hero. :)
GERSTEINJ2
Re: 3.0 release and feats
01/15/2013 07:09 PM CST
<<Once we drop everything off of global preview, we'll probably also do a feat wipe (it's only fair).>>
request: can this please be toggleable? or optional like respec?
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
request: can this please be toggleable? or optional like respec?
<<The real thing DR needs is to get out there to the kids who actually read books.>>
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: 3.0 release and feats
01/15/2013 07:10 PM CST
>>request: can this please be toggleable? or optional like respec?
Probably, RESPEC FEATS seems like a reasonable way to go. When we get to the time when we'll be turning off global preview, we'll do a run in Test to make sure everything runs smoothly.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
Probably, RESPEC FEATS seems like a reasonable way to go. When we get to the time when we'll be turning off global preview, we'll do a run in Test to make sure everything runs smoothly.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: 3.0 release and feats
01/15/2013 08:26 PM CST
For my barbarian, the only change I needed to make to adjust to 3.0 is that I needed to acquire a couple additional pairs of armor pieces so I can cycle out greaves and helm and gloves. Mixing all four armor types proved too deadly, so I have to cycle out the third and fourth.
For my Trader, nothing changed at all.
For my cleric, the biggest adjustment was the alignment system.
Overall I like it very much.
For my Trader, nothing changed at all.
For my cleric, the biggest adjustment was the alignment system.
Overall I like it very much.
FAHR
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 08:40 PM CST
>>Read through the post, there is a bunch of Q&A about magic stuff. Also, follow the links there, they'll lead you to some good summaries of the information.
I posted this I think yesterday or something and there are already 4 pages plus of questions and/or responses. There are over 8 pages of posts to go through. Plus the other boards dealing with various discussions. Not everyone has that much time it would take to go through all of it. However, if Elanthapedia is going to have the basics and things like that, and who knows, maybe drsecrets will have it too, then thats a good idea to point people in that direction and thanks for the advice. I admit I forgot about them.
>>I was in test today with someone who was absolutely ignorant of nearly everything in 3.0. Every single question posed had a quick and simple answer that could literally be answered with 5s of epedia searching at worst, but mostly was simply present on the LINKED GUILD PAGE in the 3.0 announcement.
Yes, maybe all we had to do was say to ourselves, hey I will just go to elanthapedia and check it out. But its possible that some people, like myself, just forgot. Something to keep in mind. Some of us have REAL lives too, and maybe there is alot going on and maybe dr isnt the main priorty so its not on the top of our 'oh I need to make sure I read all of 3.0 information and keep up on all of whats going on and know all the stuff there is to know about it' hit parade. Thus, me asking. And someone answered. And thats all the matters.
>>Male Persona Non grata seeking Dead Female Pokemon
I posted this I think yesterday or something and there are already 4 pages plus of questions and/or responses. There are over 8 pages of posts to go through. Plus the other boards dealing with various discussions. Not everyone has that much time it would take to go through all of it. However, if Elanthapedia is going to have the basics and things like that, and who knows, maybe drsecrets will have it too, then thats a good idea to point people in that direction and thanks for the advice. I admit I forgot about them.
>>I was in test today with someone who was absolutely ignorant of nearly everything in 3.0. Every single question posed had a quick and simple answer that could literally be answered with 5s of epedia searching at worst, but mostly was simply present on the LINKED GUILD PAGE in the 3.0 announcement.
Yes, maybe all we had to do was say to ourselves, hey I will just go to elanthapedia and check it out. But its possible that some people, like myself, just forgot. Something to keep in mind. Some of us have REAL lives too, and maybe there is alot going on and maybe dr isnt the main priorty so its not on the top of our 'oh I need to make sure I read all of 3.0 information and keep up on all of whats going on and know all the stuff there is to know about it' hit parade. Thus, me asking. And someone answered. And thats all the matters.
>>Male Persona Non grata seeking Dead Female Pokemon
SAVEARO
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 08:47 PM CST
Maybe keep the chatter channel open for a few weeks after release? Last night I asked one question about camb items and I got a bunch of responses that lead to other helpful information. Took all of 30 seconds.
Pathyn
Pathyn
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 09:01 PM CST
> Some of us have REAL lives too
Yawn. If people who routinely levied that claim spent half as much time reading the information they've been pointed to as they do reminding us all that they have better things to do, they'd be fine. I assure you; I have a very real life.
Yawn. If people who routinely levied that claim spent half as much time reading the information they've been pointed to as they do reminding us all that they have better things to do, they'd be fine. I assure you; I have a very real life.
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 09:22 PM CST
>Some of us have REAL lives too, and maybe there is alot going on
The GMs laid out a very simple, detailed overview, in the '3.0 is coming' post.
You couldn't be bothered to read it. Or check the links. Or read anything else about 3.0 either.
How is anything else coming after that going to be any different? 'I have a real life' is not a catchall defense against self education, especially when it's already being spoon fed to you.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
The GMs laid out a very simple, detailed overview, in the '3.0 is coming' post.
You couldn't be bothered to read it. Or check the links. Or read anything else about 3.0 either.
How is anything else coming after that going to be any different? 'I have a real life' is not a catchall defense against self education, especially when it's already being spoon fed to you.
Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.
DR-SOCHARIS
Re: 3.0 release
01/15/2013 09:24 PM CST
Knock off the snark please.
>>Maybe keep the chatter channel open for a few weeks after release?
The problem is that we don't have a good way to do this in a way that:
- Disallows people from using it as a global conflict channel
- Makes it clear who's an authority and who's a troll
- Manages the hundreds of active people that all want to say their piece.
I think the most important thing will be for us to identify pain points and include helpful messages to explain what's going on - Adding a HELP line to FOCUS that says 'To activate this item, use INVOKE', etc.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
>>Maybe keep the chatter channel open for a few weeks after release?
The problem is that we don't have a good way to do this in a way that:
- Disallows people from using it as a global conflict channel
- Makes it clear who's an authority and who's a troll
- Manages the hundreds of active people that all want to say their piece.
I think the most important thing will be for us to identify pain points and include helpful messages to explain what's going on - Adding a HELP line to FOCUS that says 'To activate this item, use INVOKE', etc.
--
"The ninety and nine are with dreams, content but the hope of the world made new, is the hundredth man who is grimly bent on making those dreams come true." -E.A.P.
