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they said we wouldn't have access to all the spells, creating more diversity amongst the cookie cutter war mages.
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An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
POWERHAUS
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/20/2010 09:47 AM CDT
a couple questions -
1. whats going to happen to the cantrips? particularly for the ones with aether < i have all of them, but it looks like i'm going to go for air more, since thats where aether lash went <i really like aether lash>
2. aethereal pathways - are the quests going to change for these based on the new spells? or is the whole system of these going to be passe?
now by individual spells:
Ice Patch - I had enjoyed the TM being added to this - it seems this spell is losing this functionality.
Fire Rain - I vote for cyclic area effect. Yes, i have the spell now. But i like how cyclic works.
Mark of Arhat - I don't presently have this spell, but if you guys decide to make it option #2 similar to how heighen pain works, I definately will want it. awesomeness.
Aether Cloak - you made this one very similiar to how worm's mist works. just saying. :-)
Fortress of Ice - Will this have to be cast twice then, once for the fortress itself and once for the roof?
Shockwave - sounds awesome, particularly the metaspell addon. How exactly will this work in practice? prep shockwave flame?
Y'ntrel Sechra- casting this on the specific armor piece you want the bonus to sounds like a cool add-on.
FAMILIAR combat - wooot!
If your familiar gets killed by the target, will you just have to resummon, or will it destroy your talisman?
It training your TM - sort of like QE. cool!
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
1. whats going to happen to the cantrips? particularly for the ones with aether < i have all of them, but it looks like i'm going to go for air more, since thats where aether lash went <i really like aether lash>
2. aethereal pathways - are the quests going to change for these based on the new spells? or is the whole system of these going to be passe?
now by individual spells:
Ice Patch - I had enjoyed the TM being added to this - it seems this spell is losing this functionality.
Fire Rain - I vote for cyclic area effect. Yes, i have the spell now. But i like how cyclic works.
Mark of Arhat - I don't presently have this spell, but if you guys decide to make it option #2 similar to how heighen pain works, I definately will want it. awesomeness.
Aether Cloak - you made this one very similiar to how worm's mist works. just saying. :-)
Fortress of Ice - Will this have to be cast twice then, once for the fortress itself and once for the roof?
Shockwave - sounds awesome, particularly the metaspell addon. How exactly will this work in practice? prep shockwave flame?
Y'ntrel Sechra- casting this on the specific armor piece you want the bonus to sounds like a cool add-on.
FAMILIAR combat - wooot!
If your familiar gets killed by the target, will you just have to resummon, or will it destroy your talisman?
It training your TM - sort of like QE. cool!
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
SHOGUNASSASIN429
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/20/2010 10:32 AM CDT
>>Ice Patch - I had enjoyed the TM being added to this - it seems this spell is losing this functionality.
On the contrary, it lost it's functionality when it was switched to a TM spell. IP was at one point the single greatest disabler in the game. Due to these directives we now can't have both that and the coveted neck snap but i'd much rather have the disabler part then the damage part of the spell.
On the contrary, it lost it's functionality when it was switched to a TM spell. IP was at one point the single greatest disabler in the game. Due to these directives we now can't have both that and the coveted neck snap but i'd much rather have the disabler part then the damage part of the spell.
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/20/2010 10:37 AM CDT
>>2. aethereal pathways - are the quests going to change for these based on the new spells? or is the whole system of these going to be passe?
>>#6) I have some nifty ideas for Pathways but we're not talking about them yet either
>>#6) I have some nifty ideas for Pathways but we're not talking about them yet either
DR-ZEYURN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/20/2010 11:05 AM CDT
>What's an estimated circle where a WM would have all the spells that are currently planned?
I think if you add all the planned stuff and weapon creation we're sitting pretty close to 150.
WMs won't be able to take all the spells in the WM book if they also want a nice medley of the feats.
Other random comments I have but am too lazy to quote from:
I'm not totally opposed to a spell whose primary function is to cause nerve damage. However, it is important to note that nerve damage will be much less bad for casting in Magic 3.0 so the usefulness of nerve damage has gone down some (but it's still pretty potent)
Spell Synergy, while some people like the cool aspect of it, is not going to give the spells any extra power and so you're basically saying "GMs, please weaken our spells by making us cast three of them to give you the effect you were willing to give us in one!" I'd rather just make your spells seem cool on their own, and save synergies for when it's really important!
-Z
I think if you add all the planned stuff and weapon creation we're sitting pretty close to 150.
WMs won't be able to take all the spells in the WM book if they also want a nice medley of the feats.
Other random comments I have but am too lazy to quote from:
I'm not totally opposed to a spell whose primary function is to cause nerve damage. However, it is important to note that nerve damage will be much less bad for casting in Magic 3.0 so the usefulness of nerve damage has gone down some (but it's still pretty potent)
Spell Synergy, while some people like the cool aspect of it, is not going to give the spells any extra power and so you're basically saying "GMs, please weaken our spells by making us cast three of them to give you the effect you were willing to give us in one!" I'd rather just make your spells seem cool on their own, and save synergies for when it's really important!
-Z
MAGICLYTE
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/20/2010 11:48 AM CDT
I for one like the disarm function of tingle. I vote keep it.
GERSTEINJ2
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/20/2010 12:37 PM CDT
major reason is it was aether lash and ice patch as my "go to" TM spell if i'm in a mess or somewhere where i can't cast lightning bolt <how i managed to complete the 44th circle AP quest>, or get out of trouble with a critter. just stunning the "creature" wouldn't have worked. breaking its neck worked. :-)
At any rate, I think the stuff in the works sounds exciting, and its made me determined to work harder on my WM.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
At any rate, I think the stuff in the works sounds exciting, and its made me determined to work harder on my WM.
You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/20/2010 01:33 PM CDT
>>I've been in lightning storms before that have made my hair stand on end (which granted probably meant I was close to being struck by lightning; and at that point hadn't caused any actual damage to me)...
I've had the dubious pleasure of being about 10-15 feet from a lightning strike. I'm going to politely assert that there is absolutely no mistaking the situation if you get a near miss. I gained a lot of sympathy for Vico's mythological argument that proto-humans developed civilization because of the terror lightning brought.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
I've had the dubious pleasure of being about 10-15 feet from a lightning strike. I'm going to politely assert that there is absolutely no mistaking the situation if you get a near miss. I gained a lot of sympathy for Vico's mythological argument that proto-humans developed civilization because of the terror lightning brought.
-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas
ROBERTDH
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/20/2010 03:36 PM CDT
I'm probably just clutching at straw with Spell Synergy, I just don't want to see WM spellcasting end up like MM spellcasting where spells come with context wheels and drop-down menus.
I'd much rather remember a formula for doing something with a spell than remember a syntax.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
I'd much rather remember a formula for doing something with a spell than remember a syntax.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
CATHULU
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/20/2010 05:49 PM CDT
Any chance we will be getting some sort of spell or augment to boost intell/wisdom since they will be playing a prime role in casting?
- Erixx
- Erixx
ROBERTDH
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/20/2010 06:19 PM CDT
>Any chance we will be getting some sort of spell or augment to boost intell/wisdom since they will be playing a prime role in casting?
Per Armifer a couple of posts prior:
>I am trying to hold us to describing conventional Warrior Mage spells as literal elemental manifestations. Elemental spells conjuring something physical (within Elanthia's loose definition of physics) without delving into symbolic or mystic-minded effects. In that model, it's very hard to conceive of a conventional Warrior Mage mental buff.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
Per Armifer a couple of posts prior:
>I am trying to hold us to describing conventional Warrior Mage spells as literal elemental manifestations. Elemental spells conjuring something physical (within Elanthia's loose definition of physics) without delving into symbolic or mystic-minded effects. In that model, it's very hard to conceive of a conventional Warrior Mage mental buff.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
KROONERMANREVENGE
JULIAN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 06:38 AM CDT
Overall like, with a few requests and questions.
How bad will the penalty for not targeting be?
Will it be the norm among all guilds that some offensive/defensive buffs will not be available at the same time?
If you cast a spell that cannot be used in conjunction with a spell you already have up, do you fail or does the new spell replace the old one? My preference would be to replace.
The WM spell book as presented lacks any way to boost the offensive side of Magic v X contests. This seems like fairly basic functionality that is going to be available in some form for every guild who uses the contests. Do firm plans exist to implement a way for WMs to do this?
Static Discharge: The nerve damage component of the spell was very useful. If nerve damage will remain a potent modifier in combat, it would be nice to retain this functionality somewhere.
Chain Lightning: A "grouped/not grouped" or "Not PC/everything" selector would be more useful than the "engaged/everything" one. Is it possible to have "not a pc/engaged/everything" selector?
Ball Lightning: When you say you have another spell like this, are you referencing the familiar attack spell? I wouldn't mind seeing ball lightning retained in a less clunky form.
Dragon's Breath: Can we bump it to Esoteric and make it 3 shots? Otherwise the advantage of being able to shoot from the hip without penalty is offset by the disadvantage of having to cast and attack in two steps.
Fire Rain: My understanding of the choices is this..
1) Chain Lightning, but fire damage and multi-shot.
2) Like a bard enchante, except rather than walking around making people see butterflies when you forget it's up, you incinerate them with a rain of fire.
3) Sort of what we have now.
Between the 3 I'd prefer #2, if the consequences of not being targetable are less severe than what they are now. Probably prefer #1 if that's not the case.
Mark of Arhat: Debilitation sounds neat, though still leaning to 1.
Tremor: Sounds like current Tremor, which is not very useful on its own. Will the new spell be different somehow? If not, can it be made different?
Earth Sense: Could this become a straight perception buff?
Magnetic Ballista: Better with self-load and overwatch (cast at absent target, ballista waits for target) functionality.
Tailwind: Will this be self-cast rather than area cast?
Paeldryth's Wrath: I'm not sure what you're describing has much of a niche.
Shockwave: Will this affect everything in the room, or everything at an engagement range?
How bad will the penalty for not targeting be?
Will it be the norm among all guilds that some offensive/defensive buffs will not be available at the same time?
If you cast a spell that cannot be used in conjunction with a spell you already have up, do you fail or does the new spell replace the old one? My preference would be to replace.
The WM spell book as presented lacks any way to boost the offensive side of Magic v X contests. This seems like fairly basic functionality that is going to be available in some form for every guild who uses the contests. Do firm plans exist to implement a way for WMs to do this?
Static Discharge: The nerve damage component of the spell was very useful. If nerve damage will remain a potent modifier in combat, it would be nice to retain this functionality somewhere.
Chain Lightning: A "grouped/not grouped" or "Not PC/everything" selector would be more useful than the "engaged/everything" one. Is it possible to have "not a pc/engaged/everything" selector?
Ball Lightning: When you say you have another spell like this, are you referencing the familiar attack spell? I wouldn't mind seeing ball lightning retained in a less clunky form.
Dragon's Breath: Can we bump it to Esoteric and make it 3 shots? Otherwise the advantage of being able to shoot from the hip without penalty is offset by the disadvantage of having to cast and attack in two steps.
Fire Rain: My understanding of the choices is this..
1) Chain Lightning, but fire damage and multi-shot.
2) Like a bard enchante, except rather than walking around making people see butterflies when you forget it's up, you incinerate them with a rain of fire.
3) Sort of what we have now.
Between the 3 I'd prefer #2, if the consequences of not being targetable are less severe than what they are now. Probably prefer #1 if that's not the case.
Mark of Arhat: Debilitation sounds neat, though still leaning to 1.
Tremor: Sounds like current Tremor, which is not very useful on its own. Will the new spell be different somehow? If not, can it be made different?
Earth Sense: Could this become a straight perception buff?
Magnetic Ballista: Better with self-load and overwatch (cast at absent target, ballista waits for target) functionality.
Tailwind: Will this be self-cast rather than area cast?
Paeldryth's Wrath: I'm not sure what you're describing has much of a niche.
Shockwave: Will this affect everything in the room, or everything at an engagement range?
SOMNIUM-VISUM
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 08:47 AM CDT
I don't really have to many issues with the changes, more the way this will be done.
My warmage is 100+, and by rights, should (and does) know his spells inside out.
My concern here is, even the most experienced warmages will have no clear idea on what their spells actually do.
From the looks of the great table Gand-Mad put together, with all our spells, we have the ability to boost... agility, reflex, strength, stamina, shield, parry, evasion, armor, and melee.
If that is the case, I really can't complain at all.
I just have a couple of questions really:
1) Will you tell us exactly what each spell does? As in how much reflex boost it will give us, or how much evasion boost/ranks it will add? So we will know if the spell is worth getting or a waste of a slot?
2) Will warmages get to start from a clean slate on their spellbook? I know I for one picked a few spells because of what they DID, now its changed, they are useless to me, and I feel my slot is now wasted.
Overall, if I am reading things right, I'm not unhappy with the changes, more worried that I have no idea what most of the spells are capable of now
Familiar hunting with me.... Hell Yes!! I've wanted that for a while now!!
I'd be very interested to see how this works, can I have mine altered too please?
Somni
My warmage is 100+, and by rights, should (and does) know his spells inside out.
My concern here is, even the most experienced warmages will have no clear idea on what their spells actually do.
From the looks of the great table Gand-Mad put together, with all our spells, we have the ability to boost... agility, reflex, strength, stamina, shield, parry, evasion, armor, and melee.
If that is the case, I really can't complain at all.
I just have a couple of questions really:
1) Will you tell us exactly what each spell does? As in how much reflex boost it will give us, or how much evasion boost/ranks it will add? So we will know if the spell is worth getting or a waste of a slot?
2) Will warmages get to start from a clean slate on their spellbook? I know I for one picked a few spells because of what they DID, now its changed, they are useless to me, and I feel my slot is now wasted.
Overall, if I am reading things right, I'm not unhappy with the changes, more worried that I have no idea what most of the spells are capable of now
Familiar hunting with me.... Hell Yes!! I've wanted that for a while now!!
I'd be very interested to see how this works, can I have mine altered too please?
Somni
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 08:51 AM CDT
I imagine we'll get a period of testing where we can cast all of the spells before choosing like we did for magic 2.0.
SHOGUNASSASIN429
DRUHANL3
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 10:03 AM CDT
My comments and questions about the new spell list follows (with only a little QQ).
"Aether is being removed as a damaging spellbook because it doesn't exactly fit the lore particularly well to do so. Damage spells that used to be in Aether will appear elsewhere, so do not fret."
Don’t know why this is true, after all you control the Lore. Also, there is some lore indicating that aether TM is real in one of the AP quests. But if it must be, so be it.
ES: So it has no use for mundane combat (the current version does – albeit very weakly)? Also, would it protect from the elemental Magic v. whatever spells?
AC: Is the no locate/ no perceive fam aspect going away?
AL: Finally arc light gets some love. Will there be a weaker area affect aspect ala current vert?
Tingle: I also vote to keep the item drop aspect.
SD: Sad that SD is going away, was one of my favs. Maybe keep it as the area affect AL or tingle?
LB: Is it keeping nerve damage?
CL: Is nerve damage in?
GZ: Is it keeping the unbalancing?
BL: Yeah, current version is not very useful. Some ideas: keep it and give it the ability to hit hiders, and/or follow a specific target if the target moves, and/or move with your familiar.
Sun Lance: Sounds like a moonie spell.
MOF: Interesting version, but if elemental transformation is coming for each element, air or aether might be a more logical agility booster, but I see where you’re going with the Fire boosting offense thing. Also would be cool if the fire version caused reciprocal damage when hit physically, or damage thieves when pockets were picked. ;) Oh, and is brawling damage bonus still part of it?
Ignite: Very interesting.
IP: Will the current disadvantages stay?
RM: Will the current synergy with electricity stay, and while I’m thinking about it, will the weather/WM spell synergy stay?
SUF: so climbing bonus is out? Boo, but oh well. Why parry buff?.
Granite Spike: Here, and with the other intro single strike spells from other elements, we’re getting into the whole “this spell is redundant” problem. Granite spike, sun lance, chill geyser, (to a lesser extend Bolt) all basically the same sans damage type.
Earth Sense: leave as a perception booster?
Aegis of Granite: me likey.
Z: still removes RM?
Air Lash: meh, a lash of air just not as cool as a lash of energy, but OK. I’m guessing it won’t still be the “best” TM spell in the game given it is a basic spell. Will this concept even exist anymore?
Paeldryth's Wrath: Me likey, but with auto retreat, not so good. Will the launching naptha aspect still be part of the spell?
Shockwave: Will it still blow items out of the room/into oblivion? Will it still have the "knock down"? Will any TM spell still have the "knock down" aspect?
YS: So single armor type wearing wins. Don’t know why the hindrance reduction model is frowned upon, but oh well. Will the damage absorb increase aspect be in – not so handy for the physicals with capped forged, but good for the elemental absorbs. Will it still stack? Will any spells still stack?
"Esoteric Cyclic Augmentation / Targeted spell. Draws forth the latent potential within your familiar, allowing them to serve you in combat for a time. The familiar can be directed to attack a target of your choice or attack freely. It will continually attack its target until it is slain, then move on to the next."
Some might not like me for saying this, but I don’t like that TM will be taught by combat familiars (or other pet type creations for that matter). Who remembers the uproar with the bards screaming and vocal learning?
Wanna learn TM, strap on a shield and get into combat.
"Aether is being removed as a damaging spellbook because it doesn't exactly fit the lore particularly well to do so. Damage spells that used to be in Aether will appear elsewhere, so do not fret."
Don’t know why this is true, after all you control the Lore. Also, there is some lore indicating that aether TM is real in one of the AP quests. But if it must be, so be it.
ES: So it has no use for mundane combat (the current version does – albeit very weakly)? Also, would it protect from the elemental Magic v. whatever spells?
AC: Is the no locate/ no perceive fam aspect going away?
AL: Finally arc light gets some love. Will there be a weaker area affect aspect ala current vert?
Tingle: I also vote to keep the item drop aspect.
SD: Sad that SD is going away, was one of my favs. Maybe keep it as the area affect AL or tingle?
LB: Is it keeping nerve damage?
CL: Is nerve damage in?
GZ: Is it keeping the unbalancing?
BL: Yeah, current version is not very useful. Some ideas: keep it and give it the ability to hit hiders, and/or follow a specific target if the target moves, and/or move with your familiar.
Sun Lance: Sounds like a moonie spell.
MOF: Interesting version, but if elemental transformation is coming for each element, air or aether might be a more logical agility booster, but I see where you’re going with the Fire boosting offense thing. Also would be cool if the fire version caused reciprocal damage when hit physically, or damage thieves when pockets were picked. ;) Oh, and is brawling damage bonus still part of it?
Ignite: Very interesting.
IP: Will the current disadvantages stay?
RM: Will the current synergy with electricity stay, and while I’m thinking about it, will the weather/WM spell synergy stay?
SUF: so climbing bonus is out? Boo, but oh well. Why parry buff?.
Granite Spike: Here, and with the other intro single strike spells from other elements, we’re getting into the whole “this spell is redundant” problem. Granite spike, sun lance, chill geyser, (to a lesser extend Bolt) all basically the same sans damage type.
Earth Sense: leave as a perception booster?
Aegis of Granite: me likey.
Z: still removes RM?
Air Lash: meh, a lash of air just not as cool as a lash of energy, but OK. I’m guessing it won’t still be the “best” TM spell in the game given it is a basic spell. Will this concept even exist anymore?
Paeldryth's Wrath: Me likey, but with auto retreat, not so good. Will the launching naptha aspect still be part of the spell?
Shockwave: Will it still blow items out of the room/into oblivion? Will it still have the "knock down"? Will any TM spell still have the "knock down" aspect?
YS: So single armor type wearing wins. Don’t know why the hindrance reduction model is frowned upon, but oh well. Will the damage absorb increase aspect be in – not so handy for the physicals with capped forged, but good for the elemental absorbs. Will it still stack? Will any spells still stack?
"Esoteric Cyclic Augmentation / Targeted spell. Draws forth the latent potential within your familiar, allowing them to serve you in combat for a time. The familiar can be directed to attack a target of your choice or attack freely. It will continually attack its target until it is slain, then move on to the next."
Some might not like me for saying this, but I don’t like that TM will be taught by combat familiars (or other pet type creations for that matter). Who remembers the uproar with the bards screaming and vocal learning?
Wanna learn TM, strap on a shield and get into combat.
CATHULU
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 10:09 AM CDT
>>Per Armifer a couple of posts prior:
>>I am trying to hold us to describing conventional Warrior Mage spells as literal elemental manifestations. Elemental spells conjuring something physical (within Elanthia's loose definition of physics) without delving into symbolic or mystic-minded effects. In that model, it's very hard to conceive of a conventional Warrior Mage mental buff.
We are magic primary and lore/weapon secondary, but we are not smart enough to figure out how to cast with better effect?
Just seems silly most of our spells will rely on mentals, but a mental buff is too far of a stretch for Warrior mages.
- Erixx
>>I am trying to hold us to describing conventional Warrior Mage spells as literal elemental manifestations. Elemental spells conjuring something physical (within Elanthia's loose definition of physics) without delving into symbolic or mystic-minded effects. In that model, it's very hard to conceive of a conventional Warrior Mage mental buff.
We are magic primary and lore/weapon secondary, but we are not smart enough to figure out how to cast with better effect?
Just seems silly most of our spells will rely on mentals, but a mental buff is too far of a stretch for Warrior mages.
- Erixx
APATHETICSMILE
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 10:16 AM CDT
>>Paeldryth's Wrath: Me likey, but with auto retreat, not so good. Will the launching naptha aspect still be part of the spell?
Auto retreat is going away with the new combat, which is coming out with the new magic.
And seconded on wanting to know about launching naptha, that's pure greatness and I'd hate to see it go away.
Auto retreat is going away with the new combat, which is coming out with the new magic.
And seconded on wanting to know about launching naptha, that's pure greatness and I'd hate to see it go away.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 10:33 AM CDT
I think the idea of a Warrior Mage is to be a Fighter/Wizard combo. Being such, this incarnation may not necessarily delve too far into the mental/mechanical workings of spellcasting and may instead focus more on training the body and mind equally in order to lay waste to the opponent, which is very much a warrior's mentality. At least that is my opinion.
Anyway, the whole idea of buffing up before battle to me has seemed quite ridiculous in as far as players have taken the concept. To me(and my perspective may be skewed having a Bard background) it is ridiculous to have the capability of having 12+ self cast buffs on at one time. I hope the implementation of different spell types(combat spells, ritual spells, etc) can create a more feasible way for spellcasters to buff as necessary within combat rather than casting absolutely every single one of their buff spells prior to combat starting. Again, my opinion.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
Anyway, the whole idea of buffing up before battle to me has seemed quite ridiculous in as far as players have taken the concept. To me(and my perspective may be skewed having a Bard background) it is ridiculous to have the capability of having 12+ self cast buffs on at one time. I hope the implementation of different spell types(combat spells, ritual spells, etc) can create a more feasible way for spellcasters to buff as necessary within combat rather than casting absolutely every single one of their buff spells prior to combat starting. Again, my opinion.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
SHOGUNASSASIN429
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 12:00 PM CDT
I think bottom line every other combat relevant guild has a buff to their primary attack. Pathways were supposed to be ours but they suck. If we can't get mental buffs then i'd like to see more physical buffs to improve our abilities with weapons. I'm glad TW will be more useful in this regard from now on, but is it enough to see WMs on par with rangers and thieves with ranged weapons?
DR-ZEYURN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 12:00 PM CDT
Since a bunch of people commented on this.
Strictly speaking, no guild can buff everything. WMs may get a mental buff, they may not, but it won't be with the Magic 3.0 release. Our interest is in 'get Magic 3.0 out' to start over 'make a bunch of new spells'.
>How bad will the penalty for not targeting be?
Targeting will work exactly like aiming, with the exception that an AoE spell will require about 50% more time.
>Will it be the norm among all guilds that some offensive/defensive buffs will not be available at the same time?
Yes, basically. Most non-primes don't have the humongous array of buffs that can be had by WMs in the first place, though.
>If you cast a spell that cannot be used in conjunction with a spell you already have up, do you fail or does the new spell replace the old one? My preference would be to replace.
Probably fail, given we're making an AP dispel that can no-contest remove any spell you've cast.
>Chain Lightning: A "grouped/not grouped" or "Not PC/everything" selector would be more useful than the "engaged/everything" one. Is it possible to have "not a pc/engaged/everything" selector?
I'm not sure what standard toggles we'll have for AoEs yet.
>Ball Lightning: When you say you have another spell like this, are you referencing the familiar attack spell? I wouldn't mind seeing ball lightning retained in a less clunky form.
Yes, I am referencing the familiar attack spell.
>Dragon's Breath: Can we bump it to Esoteric and make it 3 shots? Otherwise the advantage of being able to shoot from the hip without penalty is offset by the disadvantage of having to cast and attack in two steps.<
It's really not. Delayed cast is a huge advantage. Besides, adding multiple strikes would entail also making each weaker.
>Tremor: Sounds like current Tremor, which is not very useful on its own. Will the new spell be different somehow? If not, can it be made different?
If you don't end up liking it, don't take it! Not every spell is going to be something every person finds useful and this is acceptable.
>Earth Sense: Could this become a straight perception buff?
No.
>Tailwind: Will this be self-cast rather than area cast?
Yes.
>Paeldryth's Wrath: I'm not sure what you're describing has much of a niche.
It does. See above on how some people not using it doesn't mean others won't. People have semi-regularly asked for something like this, and if other people don't want it, they won't need to take it.
>Shockwave: Will this affect everything in the room, or everything at an engagement range?
Everything.
>My concern here is, even the most experienced warmages will have no clear idea on what their spells actually do.
I'm telling you what they do and that the boosts will be capped. It should be pretty clear. Not giving exact numbers is a decision that comes from higher than me but I'm pretty sure the playerbase is going to figure it out fast since it's all standardized. There won't be a huge PAFO element and there'll be about 2 weeks of global preview of everything.
>2) Will warmages get to start from a clean slate on their spellbook?
A full spell wipe is part of Magic 3.0.
>Dont know why this is true, after all you control the Lore. Also, there is some lore indicating that aether TM is real in one of the AP quests.
The best way to put WM 'lore' is schizophrenic and out of touch with reality. Armifer and I would really love to give you guys much better and solid information on what the elements actually are as part of Magic 3.0.
>ES: So it has no use for mundane combat (the current version does albeit very weakly)? Also, would it protect from the elemental Magic v. whatever spells?
It depends if mundane combat includes people who fling fireballs at you. But yes, we wanted to leave this one introductory so we pared down what it did and made it good at it.
>AC: Is the no locate/ no perceive fam aspect going away?
Yes.
>AL: Finally arc light gets some love. Will there be a weaker area affect aspect ala current vert?
No, nor will there be an area vertigo. If this bothers everyone, remember that you need to pay for such functionality now and we're trying to keep WM spells from all being 3-4 slot monsters.
>LB: Is it keeping nerve damage?
No.
>CL: Is nerve damage in?
Maybe. I don't object to it with the again caveat 'you have to pay extra for the functionality'.
>GZ: Is it keeping the unbalancing?
Probably not.
>MOF: Interesting version, but if elemental transformation is coming for each element
2 mutually exclusive and hopefully nifty buffs is probably okay, I'm not entirely certain there wouldn't be a justified riot if there were 5.
>IP: Will the current disadvantages stay?
No.
>RM: Will the current synergy with electricity stay, and while Im thinking about it, will the weather/WM spell synergy stay?
I don't even know what the current electric synergy is but I'm going to tentatively say no.
Weather will still modify the preparation costs / difficulties of WM spells.
>SUF: so climbing bonus is out? Boo, but oh well. Why parry buff?.
Because solid footwork and steady balance is very important for parrying. The Climbing bonus being out is more 'I don't think everyone wants to pay for this'.
>Granite Spike: Here, and with the other intro single strike spells from other elements, were getting into the whole this spell is redundant problem. Granite spike, sun lance, chill geyser, (to a lesser extend Bolt) all basically the same sans damage type.
It was determined that the ability to have a solid damage dealer of every damage type was probably not going to be redundant for the people who focus on damage dealers. They will be made so you don't need to take them all if you don't want them all.
>Z: still removes RM?
I don't precisely object to this one but I see no reason it needs to remove one of your other buffs.
>Air Lash: meh, a lash of air just not as cool as a lash of energy, but OK.
I think you will be very surprised. Armifer's comment was along the lines of 'Okay, but if we need to put it in Air it needs to stop looking so wimpy and show that Air is serious business.'
>Im guessing it wont still be the best TM spell in the game given it is a basic spell. Will this concept even exist anymore?
That concept does not exist anymore.
>Paeldryth's Wrath: Me likey, but with auto retreat, not so good. Will the launching naptha aspect still be part of the spell?
Magic 3.0 is under the assumption Combat will be out at the same time. Naphtha calcs are so weird, I can't give you an answer on this right away.
>Shockwave: Will it still blow items out of the room/into oblivion?
Trash collection is considered a cheap enough effect it could stay in the spell.
>Will it still have the "knock down"? Will any TM spell still have the "knock down" aspect?
Knock down is meant to be more part of the core combat system but there's no strict reason that a spell can't be about knocking things over.
>Some might not like me for saying this, but I dont like that TM will be taught by combat familiars (or other pet type creations for that matter). Who remembers the uproar with the bards screaming and vocal learning?
>Wanna learn TM, strap on a shield and get into combat.
I'm not sure why you'd object to something that uses your TM skill teaching your TM skill but you will probably need to be where your familiar is to use this so you're going to be in combat.
-Z
Strictly speaking, no guild can buff everything. WMs may get a mental buff, they may not, but it won't be with the Magic 3.0 release. Our interest is in 'get Magic 3.0 out' to start over 'make a bunch of new spells'.
>How bad will the penalty for not targeting be?
Targeting will work exactly like aiming, with the exception that an AoE spell will require about 50% more time.
>Will it be the norm among all guilds that some offensive/defensive buffs will not be available at the same time?
Yes, basically. Most non-primes don't have the humongous array of buffs that can be had by WMs in the first place, though.
>If you cast a spell that cannot be used in conjunction with a spell you already have up, do you fail or does the new spell replace the old one? My preference would be to replace.
Probably fail, given we're making an AP dispel that can no-contest remove any spell you've cast.
>Chain Lightning: A "grouped/not grouped" or "Not PC/everything" selector would be more useful than the "engaged/everything" one. Is it possible to have "not a pc/engaged/everything" selector?
I'm not sure what standard toggles we'll have for AoEs yet.
>Ball Lightning: When you say you have another spell like this, are you referencing the familiar attack spell? I wouldn't mind seeing ball lightning retained in a less clunky form.
Yes, I am referencing the familiar attack spell.
>Dragon's Breath: Can we bump it to Esoteric and make it 3 shots? Otherwise the advantage of being able to shoot from the hip without penalty is offset by the disadvantage of having to cast and attack in two steps.<
It's really not. Delayed cast is a huge advantage. Besides, adding multiple strikes would entail also making each weaker.
>Tremor: Sounds like current Tremor, which is not very useful on its own. Will the new spell be different somehow? If not, can it be made different?
If you don't end up liking it, don't take it! Not every spell is going to be something every person finds useful and this is acceptable.
>Earth Sense: Could this become a straight perception buff?
No.
>Tailwind: Will this be self-cast rather than area cast?
Yes.
>Paeldryth's Wrath: I'm not sure what you're describing has much of a niche.
It does. See above on how some people not using it doesn't mean others won't. People have semi-regularly asked for something like this, and if other people don't want it, they won't need to take it.
>Shockwave: Will this affect everything in the room, or everything at an engagement range?
Everything.
>My concern here is, even the most experienced warmages will have no clear idea on what their spells actually do.
I'm telling you what they do and that the boosts will be capped. It should be pretty clear. Not giving exact numbers is a decision that comes from higher than me but I'm pretty sure the playerbase is going to figure it out fast since it's all standardized. There won't be a huge PAFO element and there'll be about 2 weeks of global preview of everything.
>2) Will warmages get to start from a clean slate on their spellbook?
A full spell wipe is part of Magic 3.0.
>Dont know why this is true, after all you control the Lore. Also, there is some lore indicating that aether TM is real in one of the AP quests.
The best way to put WM 'lore' is schizophrenic and out of touch with reality. Armifer and I would really love to give you guys much better and solid information on what the elements actually are as part of Magic 3.0.
>ES: So it has no use for mundane combat (the current version does albeit very weakly)? Also, would it protect from the elemental Magic v. whatever spells?
It depends if mundane combat includes people who fling fireballs at you. But yes, we wanted to leave this one introductory so we pared down what it did and made it good at it.
>AC: Is the no locate/ no perceive fam aspect going away?
Yes.
>AL: Finally arc light gets some love. Will there be a weaker area affect aspect ala current vert?
No, nor will there be an area vertigo. If this bothers everyone, remember that you need to pay for such functionality now and we're trying to keep WM spells from all being 3-4 slot monsters.
>LB: Is it keeping nerve damage?
No.
>CL: Is nerve damage in?
Maybe. I don't object to it with the again caveat 'you have to pay extra for the functionality'.
>GZ: Is it keeping the unbalancing?
Probably not.
>MOF: Interesting version, but if elemental transformation is coming for each element
2 mutually exclusive and hopefully nifty buffs is probably okay, I'm not entirely certain there wouldn't be a justified riot if there were 5.
>IP: Will the current disadvantages stay?
No.
>RM: Will the current synergy with electricity stay, and while Im thinking about it, will the weather/WM spell synergy stay?
I don't even know what the current electric synergy is but I'm going to tentatively say no.
Weather will still modify the preparation costs / difficulties of WM spells.
>SUF: so climbing bonus is out? Boo, but oh well. Why parry buff?.
Because solid footwork and steady balance is very important for parrying. The Climbing bonus being out is more 'I don't think everyone wants to pay for this'.
>Granite Spike: Here, and with the other intro single strike spells from other elements, were getting into the whole this spell is redundant problem. Granite spike, sun lance, chill geyser, (to a lesser extend Bolt) all basically the same sans damage type.
It was determined that the ability to have a solid damage dealer of every damage type was probably not going to be redundant for the people who focus on damage dealers. They will be made so you don't need to take them all if you don't want them all.
>Z: still removes RM?
I don't precisely object to this one but I see no reason it needs to remove one of your other buffs.
>Air Lash: meh, a lash of air just not as cool as a lash of energy, but OK.
I think you will be very surprised. Armifer's comment was along the lines of 'Okay, but if we need to put it in Air it needs to stop looking so wimpy and show that Air is serious business.'
>Im guessing it wont still be the best TM spell in the game given it is a basic spell. Will this concept even exist anymore?
That concept does not exist anymore.
>Paeldryth's Wrath: Me likey, but with auto retreat, not so good. Will the launching naptha aspect still be part of the spell?
Magic 3.0 is under the assumption Combat will be out at the same time. Naphtha calcs are so weird, I can't give you an answer on this right away.
>Shockwave: Will it still blow items out of the room/into oblivion?
Trash collection is considered a cheap enough effect it could stay in the spell.
>Will it still have the "knock down"? Will any TM spell still have the "knock down" aspect?
Knock down is meant to be more part of the core combat system but there's no strict reason that a spell can't be about knocking things over.
>Some might not like me for saying this, but I dont like that TM will be taught by combat familiars (or other pet type creations for that matter). Who remembers the uproar with the bards screaming and vocal learning?
>Wanna learn TM, strap on a shield and get into combat.
I'm not sure why you'd object to something that uses your TM skill teaching your TM skill but you will probably need to be where your familiar is to use this so you're going to be in combat.
-Z
SHOGUNASSASIN429
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 12:49 PM CDT
>>I don't precisely object to this one but I see no reason it needs to remove one of your other buffs.
These types of things are what make our spells useful in different situations, it may be rare but I hate to see these mini perks of our spells go away. Sometimes you figure out tricks based on these other perks to benefit you in combat. See i wouldn't use this to remove my buff, but i could use it to remove another WMs buff, or if i think someone sneakier came in and now it doesn't benefit me to have RM up in that room. FRB also made RM fall. Should that go away as well?
Here's a good example of what i'm talking about, i used to use FRB to debuff mobs when training ranged. But i also liked having RM up for training hiding. I'd cast RM, hide, do some other stuff, then prep and cast FRB and shoot. Since RM also debuffed my own ranged it was a great perk of FRB to make the RM go away.
What you guys seem to be saying is that leaving these side benefits of our spells as a part of the spells would make them too costly, but should the climbing boost to SUF really be that costly to warrant a whole spell slot? Making one spell do one thing even if it's doing it better then before seems pretty bland.
These types of things are what make our spells useful in different situations, it may be rare but I hate to see these mini perks of our spells go away. Sometimes you figure out tricks based on these other perks to benefit you in combat. See i wouldn't use this to remove my buff, but i could use it to remove another WMs buff, or if i think someone sneakier came in and now it doesn't benefit me to have RM up in that room. FRB also made RM fall. Should that go away as well?
Here's a good example of what i'm talking about, i used to use FRB to debuff mobs when training ranged. But i also liked having RM up for training hiding. I'd cast RM, hide, do some other stuff, then prep and cast FRB and shoot. Since RM also debuffed my own ranged it was a great perk of FRB to make the RM go away.
What you guys seem to be saying is that leaving these side benefits of our spells as a part of the spells would make them too costly, but should the climbing boost to SUF really be that costly to warrant a whole spell slot? Making one spell do one thing even if it's doing it better then before seems pretty bland.
ROBERTDH
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 01:30 PM CDT
Oh no I love ALA's messaging. Invisible surgery is the most stylish way to kill something that there is. :(
Speaking of aesthetic, throwing chunks of elements in weird shapes is like siege engines, weapons, people, shards, or lurid green electricity is preferable to throwing raw chunks of elements around.
>I don't even know what the current electric synergy is but I'm going to tentatively say no.
We could... make you a chart?
...are you going to be looking into that system on a whole, actually? Some of the spell/weather interactions are kind of inexplicable. EG: Frost Scythe (not that this is going to be an issue) is penalized indoors, for reasons I can't even imagine.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
Speaking of aesthetic, throwing chunks of elements in weird shapes is like siege engines, weapons, people, shards, or lurid green electricity is preferable to throwing raw chunks of elements around.
>I don't even know what the current electric synergy is but I'm going to tentatively say no.
We could... make you a chart?
...are you going to be looking into that system on a whole, actually? Some of the spell/weather interactions are kind of inexplicable. EG: Frost Scythe (not that this is going to be an issue) is penalized indoors, for reasons I can't even imagine.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
POWERHAUS
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 02:59 PM CDT
I say throw out Earth sense, and we'll all just forget it ever existed...
How about an Aether spell: elemental othersite, maybe boosts arcana(that's lore'ish right?) and maybe something semi-useful or does something (wm recall on artifacts, devices, areas?). It's a spell in our Lore, even though our history is all books of lies right?
on the weather thing:
+/- 2 to the minimum cast amount (or prep, since it prep auto ups to minimum needed, but prepping FS on land then trying to cast in water will get you not enough mana fail message) for water rooms and rising mists with Fire, Water, and electric getting some kind of boost. I guess this changes with raining/snow conditions too. No clue if Muspar'i's sandstorms affect air spells.
And various deepnesses of water has some whacky effects on spells in general, which I think were all documented on the boards recently- cept maybe blackfire(anyone care to try?)
I don't think I've noticed the FRSC indoors thing.
That's why I was curious about less restrictions on are spells and where we can use them. I do like making buildings and caves shake with Tremor, and floors creak with ANC. Rather use them indoors though.
_________________________________
An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
How about an Aether spell: elemental othersite, maybe boosts arcana(that's lore'ish right?) and maybe something semi-useful or does something (wm recall on artifacts, devices, areas?). It's a spell in our Lore, even though our history is all books of lies right?
on the weather thing:
+/- 2 to the minimum cast amount (or prep, since it prep auto ups to minimum needed, but prepping FS on land then trying to cast in water will get you not enough mana fail message) for water rooms and rising mists with Fire, Water, and electric getting some kind of boost. I guess this changes with raining/snow conditions too. No clue if Muspar'i's sandstorms affect air spells.
And various deepnesses of water has some whacky effects on spells in general, which I think were all documented on the boards recently- cept maybe blackfire(anyone care to try?)
I don't think I've noticed the FRSC indoors thing.
That's why I was curious about less restrictions on are spells and where we can use them. I do like making buildings and caves shake with Tremor, and floors creak with ANC. Rather use them indoors though.
_________________________________
An old cranky ogre with no legs says, "Naarg wives all this Naarg wives now."
ROBERTDH
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 04:19 PM CDT
I'd generally suppose Power has a more complete list than I had... but yes for some reason FRS has a +2 indoor penalty.
It's super annoying that the environment effects are on an inconsistent spell-by-spell basis. I mean I suppose it makes sense but it's just hard to keep track of it all. Then apparently some of them (Rimefang?) have their max prep modified instead of their min prep. Add in that some spells have negligible shifts, and some spells (like FOI) have huge swings.
It's hard to explain a rule-of-thumb to novices because there are so many exceptions.
Rising Mists mostly benefits electricity spells, with a few Water interactions like FRS.
I'd be nice if RM had a more complete interaction with such things, and there were other spells that had similar 'environmental control' as an effect.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
It's super annoying that the environment effects are on an inconsistent spell-by-spell basis. I mean I suppose it makes sense but it's just hard to keep track of it all. Then apparently some of them (Rimefang?) have their max prep modified instead of their min prep. Add in that some spells have negligible shifts, and some spells (like FOI) have huge swings.
It's hard to explain a rule-of-thumb to novices because there are so many exceptions.
Rising Mists mostly benefits electricity spells, with a few Water interactions like FRS.
I'd be nice if RM had a more complete interaction with such things, and there were other spells that had similar 'environmental control' as an effect.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
DR-ZEYURN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 05:25 PM CDT
>These types of things are what make our spells useful in different situations, it may be rare but I hate to see these mini perks of our spells go away. Sometimes you figure out tricks based on these other perks to benefit you in combat. See i wouldn't use this to remove my buff, but i could use it to remove another WMs buff, or if i think someone sneakier came in and now it doesn't benefit me to have RM up in that room. FRB also made RM fall. Should that go away as well?
Yes, it probably should, because you're maybe asking that a spell can, without a contest, remove somebody else's spell. Now, if it's a real contest between the spells where you have to actually overpower the other person's spell with yours, maybe there's an argument it could exist as an extremely quirky side effect.
It's also saying 'It's okay to have quirky side effects if I can use them to hinder others even if they have to hinder me using my spells to my fullest by myself' and I don't know if that opinion is widely shared by the majority of the players. (Maybe it is, I'm not claiming to know)
>the climbing boost to SUF really be that costly to warrant a whole spell slot?
Would you think evasion boost is an effect that warrants a slot? If so, you're being inconsistent. If not, you're probably not being fully honest. I understand why you feel that way, though, because we have opinions on which skills are more valuable than others and Evasion is widely regarded as 'valuable' whereas climbing is not.
Our opinions as GMs or players are irrelevant when it comes to skill boosts, Magic 3.0 strives for an objective definition of what is 'slot-worthy' and 'a skill boost' is slot-worthy, regardless of what skill it is.
>...are you going to be looking into that system on a whole, actually?
Yes, weather/placement interactions will continue to exist but I would like them to be things I can stand behind and explain.
-Z
Yes, it probably should, because you're maybe asking that a spell can, without a contest, remove somebody else's spell. Now, if it's a real contest between the spells where you have to actually overpower the other person's spell with yours, maybe there's an argument it could exist as an extremely quirky side effect.
It's also saying 'It's okay to have quirky side effects if I can use them to hinder others even if they have to hinder me using my spells to my fullest by myself' and I don't know if that opinion is widely shared by the majority of the players. (Maybe it is, I'm not claiming to know)
>the climbing boost to SUF really be that costly to warrant a whole spell slot?
Would you think evasion boost is an effect that warrants a slot? If so, you're being inconsistent. If not, you're probably not being fully honest. I understand why you feel that way, though, because we have opinions on which skills are more valuable than others and Evasion is widely regarded as 'valuable' whereas climbing is not.
Our opinions as GMs or players are irrelevant when it comes to skill boosts, Magic 3.0 strives for an objective definition of what is 'slot-worthy' and 'a skill boost' is slot-worthy, regardless of what skill it is.
>...are you going to be looking into that system on a whole, actually?
Yes, weather/placement interactions will continue to exist but I would like them to be things I can stand behind and explain.
-Z
ROBERTDH
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/21/2010 05:41 PM CDT
I think this mentioned AP dispell will be just fine to replace all our quirkly little spell cancels.
Let our spells live in harmony with each other and the environment. One spell that turns any spell off is better than doing the RM->Zephyr->Shockwave combo to clear an RM around bystanders.
...also I could finally cancel a Rimefang. Oy is that ever necessary. You wouldn't think so, but it is.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
Let our spells live in harmony with each other and the environment. One spell that turns any spell off is better than doing the RM->Zephyr->Shockwave combo to clear an RM around bystanders.
...also I could finally cancel a Rimefang. Oy is that ever necessary. You wouldn't think so, but it is.
"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl
ILLIENA
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/22/2010 04:26 AM CDT
Did the concept of spells with a very long prep time (I believe they were called ritual spells) get dropped? Nothing in the list seems to have been flagged as such.
DRUHANL3
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/22/2010 09:33 AM CDT
>>ES: So it has no use for mundane combat (the current version does albeit very weakly)? Also, would it protect from the elemental Magic v. whatever spells?
>It depends if mundane combat includes people who fling fireballs at you. But yes, we wanted to leave this one introductory so we pared down what it did and made it good at it.
Then outside of PvP or very specific situations, ES is less useful than it is now. I see the logic with making it good at one thing, but protecting from only elemental damage doesn’t help in day to day combat, even less so for the lower circle war mage.
As for the splash damage (fireball and perhaps frostbite – unless I’m missing something), this effect should either be “free”, or should allow for an increase in the damage of the “splashing” affects – the cost being transferred to the necessity for ES.
>>AC: Is the no locate/ no perceive fam aspect going away?
>Yes.
Boo.
>>AL: Finally arc light gets some love. Will there be a weaker area affect aspect ala current vert?
>No, nor will there be an area vertigo. If this bothers everyone, remember that you need to pay for such functionality now and we're trying to keep WM spells from all being 3-4 slot monsters.
Understandable, but how about paying for area affects latter via a metaspell? This could be applied to a number of spells to add functionality.
>Weather will still modify the preparation costs / difficulties of WM spells.
As such, and given that it has been stated that WM spell affects will be real elemental manifestations, it seems logical that RM would modify spell difficulty – easier to cast electricity spells in a dense fog, harder to cast fire spells, etc…
>>Im guessing it wont still be the best TM spell in the game given it is a basic spell. Will this concept even exist anymore?
>That concept does not exist anymore.
OK, but given that TM will be in the WMs sphere of influence, will it be that WM TM spells will be inherently (or potentially) more powerful?
>I'm not sure why you'd object to something that uses your TM skill teaching your TM skill but you will probably need to be where your familiar is to use this so you're going to be in combat.
I don’t object to the above situation, I would object to learning TM by sending your familiar out hunting on its own. That being said, I would like for the familiar to be combat capable while on its own (just no learning TM) – have a friend in trouble, send your fam to help.
>It depends if mundane combat includes people who fling fireballs at you. But yes, we wanted to leave this one introductory so we pared down what it did and made it good at it.
Then outside of PvP or very specific situations, ES is less useful than it is now. I see the logic with making it good at one thing, but protecting from only elemental damage doesn’t help in day to day combat, even less so for the lower circle war mage.
As for the splash damage (fireball and perhaps frostbite – unless I’m missing something), this effect should either be “free”, or should allow for an increase in the damage of the “splashing” affects – the cost being transferred to the necessity for ES.
>>AC: Is the no locate/ no perceive fam aspect going away?
>Yes.
Boo.
>>AL: Finally arc light gets some love. Will there be a weaker area affect aspect ala current vert?
>No, nor will there be an area vertigo. If this bothers everyone, remember that you need to pay for such functionality now and we're trying to keep WM spells from all being 3-4 slot monsters.
Understandable, but how about paying for area affects latter via a metaspell? This could be applied to a number of spells to add functionality.
>Weather will still modify the preparation costs / difficulties of WM spells.
As such, and given that it has been stated that WM spell affects will be real elemental manifestations, it seems logical that RM would modify spell difficulty – easier to cast electricity spells in a dense fog, harder to cast fire spells, etc…
>>Im guessing it wont still be the best TM spell in the game given it is a basic spell. Will this concept even exist anymore?
>That concept does not exist anymore.
OK, but given that TM will be in the WMs sphere of influence, will it be that WM TM spells will be inherently (or potentially) more powerful?
>I'm not sure why you'd object to something that uses your TM skill teaching your TM skill but you will probably need to be where your familiar is to use this so you're going to be in combat.
I don’t object to the above situation, I would object to learning TM by sending your familiar out hunting on its own. That being said, I would like for the familiar to be combat capable while on its own (just no learning TM) – have a friend in trouble, send your fam to help.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/22/2010 10:13 AM CDT
>>That being said, I would like for the familiar to be combat capable while on its own (just no learning TM) have a friend in trouble, send your fam to help.
That sounds pretty sweet. Don't Necros have something similar to this or do they have to be in the same room?
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
That sounds pretty sweet. Don't Necros have something similar to this or do they have to be in the same room?
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
DR-ZEYURN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/22/2010 11:47 AM CDT
>OK, but given that TM will be in the WMs sphere of influence, will it be that WM TM spells will be inherently (or potentially) more powerful?
No. TM will also be in the Cleric, Necro, Moon Mage, and maybe Bard sphere of influences. Just like every Magic skill is in the WM sphere of influence.
WMs have a guild thematic focus on TM, which allows them to have 'different' types of TM that we would not give to the other guilds, but they won't be inherently more powerful. We've moved away from 'bigger numbers' as an allowable thing.
You will also get the pathways, which I'm not ready to announce except that they are going to be much more usable.
-Z
BEVERAGEK
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/22/2010 12:22 PM CDT
>>TM will also be in the Cleric, Necro, Moon Mage, and maybe Bard sphere of influences. Just like every Magic skill is in the WM sphere of influence.
Oh dear god please.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
Oh dear god please.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
GCSHADE
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/22/2010 05:17 PM CDT
For what it's worth, while I understand keeping transformations to a 'two only' spell set for purpose of avoiding getting murdered by all the MM, Cleric, Necro, etcs out there...
Earth and Fire as the only transformation elements seems a bit annoying. My character thematically has avoided Earth and Fire outside of SUF, and while in the end he'd probably take one or another (especially given that ALA is moving to Air) if need be, he typically focuses on the storm mage motif. No love for one of those in some transformation-related way?
Here's my vote for more metaspell enhancement options across the entire primary magic guilds, at least for certain spells - Arc Light was mentioned in this thread, but others could count for other guilds - a weak 'group Hypno' for MMs, etc. Would cost a bunch'o slots, of course, and still be weaker than directed casts.
On final note, awesome work - hope it all works out well and integrates with Combat 3.0. Spoken as someone who loves his soon to be debuffed YS.
Earth and Fire as the only transformation elements seems a bit annoying. My character thematically has avoided Earth and Fire outside of SUF, and while in the end he'd probably take one or another (especially given that ALA is moving to Air) if need be, he typically focuses on the storm mage motif. No love for one of those in some transformation-related way?
Here's my vote for more metaspell enhancement options across the entire primary magic guilds, at least for certain spells - Arc Light was mentioned in this thread, but others could count for other guilds - a weak 'group Hypno' for MMs, etc. Would cost a bunch'o slots, of course, and still be weaker than directed casts.
On final note, awesome work - hope it all works out well and integrates with Combat 3.0. Spoken as someone who loves his soon to be debuffed YS.
JULIAN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/22/2010 05:42 PM CDT
>>For what it's worth, while I understand keeping transformations to a 'two only' spell set for purpose of avoiding getting murdered by all the MM, Cleric, Necro, etcs out there...<<
The potential murder is by players of Warrior Mages, because elemental transformation spells can't be used concurrently.
The potential murder is by players of Warrior Mages, because elemental transformation spells can't be used concurrently.
DR-ZEYURN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/22/2010 06:00 PM CDT
We're not really going to make spellbooks so that you can have a complete set of spells by sticking to being a 'Fire Mage' or 'Water Mage' or whatever element is your favorite.
If you want to be a strict Elementalist, you're going to have to accept sacrifice. It's not quite as harsh as a Redeemed Necromancer or a Shocked Empath but...
-Z
If you want to be a strict Elementalist, you're going to have to accept sacrifice. It's not quite as harsh as a Redeemed Necromancer or a Shocked Empath but...
-Z
RAISHI
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/23/2010 12:40 AM CDT
>No. TM will also be in the Cleric, Necro, Moon Mage, and maybe Bard sphere of influences. Just like every Magic skill is in the WM sphere of influence.
This really scare me, If our spell are not anymore powerful than other guild than what the point of being a Warmage? Being a MoonMage I could fight just as well as WarMage plus I can travel great distance, or being a Cleric where i can raise people and if I die I can self raise? I join the guild way back when so I could do war on other with the best damage around. Now I find that i could do the same damage as other guild but with just prettier effect while other guild get special guild ability like MM travel and Cleric raise.
Frosts
This really scare me, If our spell are not anymore powerful than other guild than what the point of being a Warmage? Being a MoonMage I could fight just as well as WarMage plus I can travel great distance, or being a Cleric where i can raise people and if I die I can self raise? I join the guild way back when so I could do war on other with the best damage around. Now I find that i could do the same damage as other guild but with just prettier effect while other guild get special guild ability like MM travel and Cleric raise.
Frosts
RAIST
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/23/2010 12:44 AM CDT
>If our spell are not anymore powerful than other guild than what the point of being a Warmage?
You have a different skillset, different requirements, different guild lore, and different spells.
Barbarians don't get more powerful weapons than everyone else, and we do just fine.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
You have a different skillset, different requirements, different guild lore, and different spells.
Barbarians don't get more powerful weapons than everyone else, and we do just fine.
Magic's Death Caraamon Makdasi, Gor'Tog Barbarian
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
DR-ZEYURN
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/23/2010 12:47 AM CDT
>This really scare me, If our spell are not anymore powerful than other guild than what the point of being a Warmage?
Having an array of abilities that can kill people in a large amount of different ways, as well as a powerful suite of buff spells centered around combat both magical and weaponized.
If the Cleric focus on Metamagic or the Moon Mage focus on Utility tugs your strings, I urge you to roll one. The War Mage book is not about 'better numbers' but it will certainly be about 'better variety'.
-Z
Having an array of abilities that can kill people in a large amount of different ways, as well as a powerful suite of buff spells centered around combat both magical and weaponized.
If the Cleric focus on Metamagic or the Moon Mage focus on Utility tugs your strings, I urge you to roll one. The War Mage book is not about 'better numbers' but it will certainly be about 'better variety'.
-Z
RAISHI
Re: Tentative Magic 3.0 Spell List
09/23/2010 12:57 AM CDT
>If the Cleric focus on Metamagic or the Moon Mage focus on Utility tugs your strings, I urge you to roll one. The War Mage book is not about 'better numbers' but it will certainly be about 'better variety'.
You are right, I am just waiting for what await the Cleric and the MoonMage before I will play my MM and cleric again. Thought the WM guild was my first love the guild philosophy has change so much since I first join it I'll be talking a closer look at my other character to switch over.
Frosts
You are right, I am just waiting for what await the Cleric and the MoonMage before I will play my MM and cleric again. Thought the WM guild was my first love the guild philosophy has change so much since I first join it I'll be talking a closer look at my other character to switch over.
Frosts
