Appreciate the hint. I'll see what I can do.

- Simon

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html

I think I figured it out. I'm doing some tests to see what it actually does.

Iayn had given me the 3rd POV, which is cool. That's all I needed.

Going to give a spoiler here and it'll be posted on Phii's site whenever I see her on IMs. Anywho, feel free to skip this part of the post if you don't want to see answers revealed (which is cool by me).
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This is what I see:

>stomp mammoth
Destruction. Chaos. Blood. Drathrok taught you how to channel your inner fire to bring catastrophe to your enemies. With a focused warrior spirit, none can stand before you. You lash your foot at the ground with knowledge that your victory is assured.
Roundtime: 2 sec.

- Simon

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html

Yeah, I'm doing that now. The inner fire issue is OK (compared to what it used to be, thanks to Iayn's change a while ago with war stomp). It is very comparable to stomp enormous in terms of IF usage. My belief is that all of these inner fire sappings are static in numerical value. (I'll verify this in a day or so, just need to find some 100+ Barbarians in Prime or TF that are willing to help). Meaning, every single Barbarian that is 100th and over and that has learned the War Stomp ability will get the same inner fire sapping per each of these techniques. Also, I'm not gonna repeat what I've already mentioned about war stomps and what each one does because I already listed that on Phii's page (check the war stomp section).

Note that level 1 inner fire means full inner fire. For reference of how I'm explaining this, check out: Http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/InnerFire.html

Stomp Light:

Surrounding your reflection is a brilliant aura of beautiful flames extending nearly twice your height above your body.
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut. (Level 2 inner fire)

Stomp Heavy:

Surrounding your reflection is a brilliant aura of beautiful flames extending a little more than one and half times your height above your body.
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut. (Level 3 inner fire)

Stomp Enormous:

Surrounding your reflection is a brilliant aura of flames that extends over your height again above you.
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut. (Level 4 inner fire)

Stomp Mammoth:

Surrounding your reflection is a brilliant aura of flames that extends nearly your full height again above you.
You feel a jolt as your vision snaps shut. (Level 5 inner fire)

I'll explain what stomp mammoth does from my extremely brief bit of testing. So far, it seems to impact the balance of any opponent at pole and melee range (same as stomp enormous technique). Basically, it is one more inner fire level used up compared to stomp enormous.

I'm really focusing more on the affects of stomp mammoth and how they might differ from stomp enormous. I've tried it on hiders at pole range and melee range, but that didn't knock them out of hiding. Tried it while facing (and the opponent facing) at missile range to see if it affected balance but it doesn't seem to. Perhaps it is better in certain situation as opposed to using stomp enormous, but I'll try to tinker more with it later on.

My hypothesis for the moment is that stomp mammoth technique gives the opponent a 5 to 6 second roundtime if they are affected at melee or pole range, along with them being extremely imbalanced (if they within those two ranges). There could be other benefits to using stomp mammoth as opposed to stomp enormous, but we'll see.

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

=)

- Simon

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html

>>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

Did we ever get told what that means? I know I've had it happen a few times...

Is it just fluff or what?

Hmmmm, I can't remember if Jaedren posted that stomp along with fighting mammoths for a reason or not. Not that many mammoths running around to test it.

I am --- Navak

>>You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde screaming in barbaric approval of your deeds.

>>Did we ever get told what that means? I know I've had it happen a few times...

I got that message after killing Simonyi once. 'twas pleasant.


-Phii
www.phiiskeep.homestead.com

Did a bit more experimenting last night with the stomp mammoth technique to try and understand what I'm working with, so I could try to explain it more clearly to you guys.

I'm very happy for the guild to finally discover something that can potentially help them become more barbaric or possibly aiding in a hunt.

Much of what I've understood about stomp mammoth is already listed on Phii's warstomp page, but there are a few more things to mention. Just so you understand, when your opponent receives a 5 to 7 second roundtime (it is randomly given), that roundtime will not impact the opponent from stopping to advance on the Barbarian. Stopping the enemy from advancing on you just requires a stun, immobolizing, unconscious or dead state of mind and that roundtime given to the opponent will do none of those affects. Roundtime given is just roundtime given and it impacts the opponent from wielding a weapon, getting something from an inventory, moving to another room. Things of that nature. I don't mind that an enemy can still advance/engage on a barbarian who just affected him via the stomp mammoth technique.

As with the other stomps, stomp mammoth affects balance of those within the range of the stomper. The range of the stomp mammoth technique is anyone who is facing the stomping barbarian at pole and/or melee, as well as the stomping barbarian can face his opponent and affect someone, but he must be at least within pole or melee distance from that target.

Undead creatures will be affected by stomp mammoth (or any other stomp, for that matter). Balance is used by any living or non-living creature in this game. The one thing I would like to test when I'm free is if creatures that hover above the ground are affected by stomps (like, Malchata?).

The opponent will not see himself receiving the roundtime in the story screen/main screen. However, the opponent notices a roundtime increase from the timer.

Creatures and characters will be affected if they are hidden and/or invisible, as long as they are within the range of the Barbarian who utilizes the stomp mammoth technique.

I have always believed that most people want to make rationale, appropriate decisions, but it is difficult to do that when you do not fully understand what is going on around you. One purpose of helping you guys understand your abilities is for Barbarian players to lead better rationale and appropriate decisions based on how they want to lead the story of their character. When you have a group of people who actually understand what is going on around them in terms of the choices they make, it is easier to create new ideas that are useful for their character. Certain things cannot be said by GMs because of their NDA contract, and people should understand this. Yet again, another reasoning for creating guides to help those who would like to know (but at the same time, hopefully not completely spoiling the adventure for them, so there is still mysticism in the game for those individuals).

The messaging from the first person perspective of stomp mammoth is pretty damn sweet. Props to the person(s) who came up with it.

As for my consensus of the stomp mammoth technique (I'm trying to be nice here). I believe it is lacking in terms of situations where it can be useful. That's OK, though. Why? Because the Barbarian Team could perhaps add to it and make it a useful tool in combat. Right now, I can roar anger of the earth and death's lullaby (two very easy techniques to pull off and they use up VOICE) and achieve what stomp mammoth does WITHOUT using inner fire. What stomp mammoth does is fine, but it needs something more to make it useful at the cost of the inner fire it uses up, as well as the level it is given.

1. I have a few suggestions for what stomp mammoth can do. If an individual(s) advances to pole and/or melee range or the Barbarian is facing a person at pole or melee range, it can be affected by the stomp mammoth technique. This technique will cost the Barbarian inner fire and take 2 seconds to perform, the person/people within the range of the Barbarian under the stomp mammoth technique will become extremely unbalanced, gain a 5 to 7 second roundtime for them and it will knock out people from hiding and/or invisiblity that are in the range of the stomping Barbarian.

2. Another suggestion. If an individual(s) advances to pole and/or melee range or the Barbarian is facing a person at pole or melee range, it can be affected by the stomp mammoth technique. This technique will cost the Barbarian inner fire and take 2 seconds to perform, the person/people within the range of the Barbarian under the stomp mammoth technique will become extremely unbalanced, gain a 5 to 7 second roundtime for them and
cause them to fall out of hiding and/or invisiblity (they are in a prone position).

3. I've heard suggestions that along with what stomp mammoth does, it should also be seen that the person affected by this should should have their leg limbs destroyed from usage of the stomp mammoth technique. I don't think that's very useful for the guild. I'd rather my weapons kill my target so I learn something out of the situation.

Personally, I prefer the first suggestion as it is more fair to everyone involved, but it would add usefulness to those hunting creatures that ambush via invisibility and/or hiding while retaining the true meaning of what a MAMMOTH stomp should be.

- Simon

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html

We try to make things you guys can both enjoy as a useful skill and as a creative Roleplaying tool. Not all things we make will be devistating, all-powerful, or amazing in all aspects. We want you to be able to enjoy the skill/item/system and learn about it on your own, so that you, as a player, can enjoy that discovery and share it with your peers if you so choose, or horde it for your own benefit if you so choose. All in all we as GMs are here to make your time Fun above all other things. Most systems take alot of tweaking and retweaking to get them to where they are enjoyable and useful, but not unbalancing on a game level, we appreciate you understanding and helping us do that.

Kudos to you.

Stand Tall, Stand Proud,
Rhazah
Team Barbarian

>>I have always believed that most people want to make rationale, appropriate decisions, but it is difficult to do that when you do not fully understand what is going on around you. One purpose of helping you guys understand your abilities is for Barbarian players to lead better rationale and appropriate decisions based on how they want to lead the story of their character. When you have a group of people who actually understand what is going on around them in terms of the choices they make, it is easier to create new ideas that are useful for their character. Certain things cannot be said by GMs because of their NDA contract, and people should understand this. Yet again, another reasoning for creating guides to help those who would like to know (but at the same time, hopefully not completely spoiling the adventure for them, so there is still mysticism in the game for those individuals).



"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
-Albert Einstein

"What's the big deal? So I told a little fib and now people think I'm God." - Peter, Family Guy.

War stomp is fairly different from roars that produce similar looking effects.


Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison

I could elaborate, but I won't. :)


Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison

<<I could elaborate, but I won't. :)>>

Ok.

<<Perhaps the contest uses different things, intimidation vs. reflexes, compared to strength vs. reflexes, or such.>>

That is right.

<<It works on undead where Anger the Earth does not (right?)>>

It does. That is a benefit to stomp that I did note.

<<Perhaps war stomp is much more likely to succeed (we have a bigger bonus vs. the enemy).>>

Could it be? Possibly. That doesn't change the fact it is replicating what another ability a Barbarian can do, but at a greater cost.

Who would use up their overall inner fire pool, if they could use up their overall voice pool? Everything fueled by Barbarian primary abilities (combat dances and berserks) use inner fire as the source of essence involved.

There are very small things that it can do in the vast array of situations. It doesn't feel like a 100th circle ability when (in most circumstances) another thing given at a much lower circle (anger the earth intimidation roar) will work better. Again, in almost every circumstance, anger the earth > any stomp; that should really set off alarms in someone's mind when seeing a 100th circle ability and an ability granted at first potential for 5th circle, where the 5th circle ability is doing a better job in most scenarios you will be faced with. Just trying to be fair to both abilities when evaluating it.

- Simon

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html

>Who would use up their overall inner fire pool, if they could use up their overall voice pool? Everything fueled by Barbarian primary abilities (combat dances and berserks) use inner fire as the source of essence involved.

Are dance durations shortened after using war stomp and have you tried war stomp with the all the available berserks?

---

---

You can lead a mage to mana, but you cant make 'em think.
-Arcane Diluger Rayje

>Ummm... does War Stomp even fail? I'm far from 100th circle, but out of all the times I've seen examples of War Stomp, I've NEVER seen any messaging that suggests it failed. If it doesn't fail then that's pretty damn cool.

That would be interesting. However that begs the question..

By 100th circle could a Barb even fail to affect anyone with the Anger the Earth roar? Or at least, fail to affect anyone other than a 150th+ Barb berserking Nightmare/Everild/Kuniyo/Trothfang while hiding at missile range? Heh.

Dragoonseal

<<By 100th circle could a Barb even fail to affect anyone with the Anger the Earth roar? Or at least, fail to affect anyone other than a 150th+ Barb berserking Nightmare/Everild/Kuniyo/Trothfang while hiding at missile range? Heh.>>

Exactly, bro. To me, this doesn't seem to mean that anger the earth is too easy to pull off. Look at when it is given. 5th circle. That (to me), means it is intended to be fairly easy to pull off successfully because it was targetted for initiates of the Barbarian Guild.

Anyway, I don't want to sound like a broken record of when war stomp is given. Although I have more thoughts on improving war stomp light, heavy and enormous, as well. I want people to first understand why war stomp is not useful in just too many situations to make it a viable 100th circle aspect. Hopefully, I have done that from previous posts in this thread.

In all of this, I feel that I have been very fair and objective when trying to understand and compare these abilities. Not only fair and objective to myself, but to the guild. The guild's integrity and focus is what matters in the end on bettering our Barbarians in combat.

- Simon

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html

Hmmm, another advantage of war stomp is you don't have to worry about crowds and their annoying boost to resist. At least I think.....

---

Caraamon Majerye,
Gor'Tog Barbarian Extrordi...Well somewhat average
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html

Can War Stomp be made to stomp on an opponent if they are prone?

That would seem barbaric to me. Kinda like that cool choke move we have.

Archi

>Holy crow was that Dragoonseal posting? Maybe I've just been a dunce and not paying attention, but I thought you were gone for a while. If so, good ta see ya posting again. If not, then just chalk it up to dense barb syndrome.

Haha joke's on you, I still read the boards every day.

I just haven't logged in or posted for months because Barb and Prydaen development have become so horribly stagnant that I've become too bored with DR to bother.

Oh wait, I've still continued to pay my subscription fee for the last few months, I guess the joke's really on me. Oh well, it's worth it to watch poor Simon still futilely continue to attempt to educate the masses and have rational debate with the GMs about all his outstanding suggestions. Pity that he's one of the few still left that are worth conversing with, too bad that he never IMs me anymore. =/

Dragoonseal

Heyo,

I haven't forgotten some of the questions that have been brought up. Tested out war stomp some more a few days ago for some of the good questions that have arisen.

<<Can War Stomp be made to stomp on an opponent if they are prone?>>

You can use war stomp on an opponent while they are prone, but there is no point to do so. As you guys have read, war stomp will affect the balance of those in the stomper's range (depending on the intensity of the stomp used). When you are prone, you receive an initial balance of "very badly balanced" (some of you may understand this already, others may not).

A better question would be: Why would you use war stomp on an opponent if they are prone? Since you're just changing the balance from very badly balanced to extremely badly balanced in most cases. This leads us to another question brought up.

Will any war stomp intensity deal damage to those affected while standing or kneeling? Same question, but while they are prone?

No to both questions for any war stomp intensity.

<<You know, a cool add on for the barb 100th circle ability would be giving them the same kind of AE knockdown/unbalancing affect that Telga Moradu are said to have (and I think I witnessed it at the Arena fight). Sure, they can still stomp... but if some mage walks in and makes them crash to the ground, then the mage also also ends up on their butt for the effort ;) Just an idea.>>

I know this is a suggestion (others may not), but just so folks understand. There is no knock down function for any situation with war stomp.

Will your weapon affect the war stomp's function?

No. It'll change the messaging for first person and third person perspectives, but that is it.

War stomp as an ability needs work, here are some suggestions to toss out in the pot (I listed the reasoning for war stomp needing improvements in previous posts, so I'm not going to post that again):

Stomp Light - Still has the same requirements as now with only affecting those facing you and at melee range, but can cause a dizzying affect. Balance pulses downward for a few minutes after the affect.

Stomp Heavy - Still has the same requirements as now with only affecting all those at melee range with you, but has a knock down affect if standing or kneeling. If someone is prone while at melee range while using this war stomp intensity, it will deliver slight damage across the entire body.

Stomp Enormous - Still has the same requirements as now with only affecting all those at melee and/or pole range with you, but knocks folks out of hiding and/or invisiblity within that range. Also deals a knock dock affect if they are standing or kneeling and damage throughout the opponents' body if they are prone to a greater degree than stomp heavy.

Stomp Mammoth - Still has the same requirements as now with only affecting all those at melee and/or pole range with you. Due to the requirements (IF cost), it has a combination of all three intensities. Causes a dizzying affect. Balance pulses downward for a few minutes after the affect. Knocks folks out of hiding and/or invisiblity. Also deals a knock dock affect if they are standing or kneeling and damage throughout the opponents' body if they are prone to a greater degree than stomp heavy. It also allows for roundtime to be given to the opponent from a range of 5 to 7 seconds (same as now).

- Simon

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html

A post was hidden.


Gamemaster Iayn
Barbarian Liaison

>There are very small things that it can do in the vast array of situations. It doesn't feel like a 100th circle ability when (in most circumstances) another thing given at a much lower circle (anger the earth intimidation roar) will work better. Again, in almost every circumstance, anger the earth > any stomp; that should really set off alarms in someone's mind when seeing a 100th circle ability and an ability granted at first potential for 5th circle, where the 5th circle ability is doing a better job in most scenarios you will be faced with. Just trying to be fair to both abilities when evaluating it.
>- Simon

Until you're going against an UBER npc like the general or an army and you can't roar him. Then warstomp looks pretty good.

ext imbalance is a nice setup for an aurica IP.

>Ummm... does War Stomp even fail? I'm far from 100th circle, but out of all the times I've seen examples of War Stomp, I've NEVER seen any messaging that suggests it failed. If it doesn't fail then that's pretty damn cool.

yeah. so ext. imbalancing isn't for sure death like immobilize. but if the thing never fails...it would be unbalanced (i'm punny) if you made it never fail and immobilize

No doubt, it never fails at the cost of inner fire. However, I don't see that as beneficial to the guild. The only main point of it is to use against undead.

<<Also, I believe comparing to roars is a bad measuring stick. It would be like a WM comparing to FrB.>>

Incorrect. Both anger the earth and war stomps have the function of unbalancing but use differing essences in which they use (voice vs. inner fire). It has nothing to do with frostbite, whatsoever.

<<Until you're going against an UBER npc like the general or an army and you can't roar him. Then warstomp looks pretty good.>>

If a 100th circle Barbarian cannot succeed on one of the easiest roar techniques to pull off with the tools available to him, than he is not doing a good job of training himself/herself. You're entitled to your opinion, which I think is great.

I believe that war stomp can be better than what it currently is.

- Simon

http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Frontpage.html