I'm going to start a new thread here (Re: Briarmoon Cove Dates) to answer and respond to some of the comments.

>>Re: Where is the info?

Unfortunately, Briarmoon Cove is suffering a tad on the information front because we're in the process of changing how we handle ticket entry for pay events. We're also working with new onsite staff when it comes to how we deploy our marketing, teasing, and promoting of our events. We're in the process in talking this over more, because you're all use to us teasing and promoting the event months out. Especially a new event. Liia and I have been asked to hold off on discussing this event like we normally would for the time being. But trust me, it's something we're working on with the recent changes. It also didn't help that the holidays caused delays with people taking vacations throughout different weeks of the month of November/December.

Going to quote where I can from the other thread from here on out.

>>There is an obvious disconnect between the goals of the volunteer staff and Simutronics corporate, and no one was accusing the GMs of trying to take advantage of the player base. Quite the opposite, the messages were intended for those in charge of the business decisions that there are real consequences to the changes going on. ~LADYFLEUR

You're correct, there is a disconnect between the business side and the GameMaster side. Not many staff members truly get involved in the business side. Liia and I get to heavily influence and guide staff with the business decisions, but we do not make them. But the planning, development, and execution is done completely by offsite staff. Some stuff is peppered in by others involved at the office, and we of course need them to handle the website side (art, billing, etc). But they are not involved on what gets offered at these events, the quantities of what gets offered, and any restrictions we set. That is all handled offsite by several members of our management (ASGMs and SGMs). I think the bigger disconnect is player's understanding of what the offsite staff does and is responsible for. From up at my level, I've got targets, goals, and projects that are handed down to me that are mainly business side. I also discuss and rework areas of management, like POLICY, promoting better values, improving our company culture, and a hodgepodge of general administration. And then, completely separate from all that, is the game's actual direction, things like HSN, new releases, storylines, that have no push or pull from anyone onsite. We try to integrate what we can to incorporate business side goals with game development.

But a disconnect between staff and players is fine. You guys don't need to know everything that goes on with the GameMasters. I promote transparency, but I'm not going to explain every detail of every task we do. I'm trying to push down the walls of secrecy. Yes, we have an NDA, but there is a difference between not discussing game puzzles and mechanics, and just talking with you (like I am doing here). If you're really interested in knowing more, apply. Just be warned, we're fully staffed right now.

>>Lets be honest, this is a cash grab. They are splitting off what has been done at other festivals and giving then its own little cash generator. Lets redo fusion and make a new event surrounding it and offer VERY subpar items for the events. ~MEKK1

We have monthly and yearly targets, which have mostly been the same for a long time now. We typically do two larger pay events a year (Ebon Gate scale or up) and a few micro events. This doesn't include quests, which are mostly new to us in GS, but have been running in DR for a long time.

I'll go back ten years to show you the event schedule to help pave the way here.

*2005
**Wavedancer (runs 4 and 5)
**Ebon Gate (free)
**Foehn's Promise (Limited)

*2006
**Revel of the Anfelt (Limited tickets)
**Ebon Gate (Introduction to Velathae. Limited tickets for the auction only)

*2007
**Ebon Gate

*2008
**Ebon Gate

*2009
**Convocation of Coraesine Field (Limited tickets)
**Ebon Gate (Limited tickets for the auction only)

*2010
**Ebon Gate (Final run of Velathae)

*2011
**Droughtman's Maze Challenge (1000 tickets)
**Ebon Gate (Introduction to Feywrot Mire)

*2012
**Droughtman's Maze Challenge (Platinum run)
**Droughtman's Maze Challenge (Mini runs)
**Ebon Gate

*2013
**Return to Coraesine Field (Limited tickets)
**Ebon Gate
**Droughtman's Maze Challenge (Holiday run)
**Introduction to Quests (Black Swan Castle, Troubled Waters, and Night at the Academy)

*2014
**Cessation of Coraesine Field (Limited tickets)
**Ebon Gate
**Introduction to Micro Events (Albatross Excursions, Sylinar's Spire, Summit Expression Faire)

*2015
**Duskruin Arena and the Ratacombs
**Ebon Gate

Truth be told, we actually have not done as well as we anticipated in some of our older events. We've tried to be more efficient as the years have gone on and offer what people want more of. The micro events were a direct response to player requests, the last CCF run was a response to people wanting something over the top. Most of our pay events are a response to player wants and needs. Obviously, this comes with the understanding you don't always get everything at an event that you wanted or needed.

>>Similarly, Voln armor, Ithzir, broader enchanting services, were all dropped from EG, which collectively made it an undeniably lesser value experience than any other year. ~LADYFLEUR

I've seen the concerns with VolnArmor a number of times now, but this was not debuted at Ebon Gate. VolnArmor was GM Reidyn's project for RtCF in 2013. It was not an EG release, but some unlockings were offered after the RtCF runs at several events. It returned again for the 2014 run of CCF.

Ithzir armor debuted at EG 2012, but then was completely overhauled for EG 2013. Surprisingly enough, this armor was actually a Platinum release before migrating to Prime. The GM who created the script left us last year, and prior to that, his time was severely limited for GS work.

Enhancive permanence was first offered in 2010 by Rolarg, my NPC at Velathae. It was offered in unlimited quantities, but the following years we restricted how much you could get worked on. In 2011, when Velathae was "released," Rolarg was no more, and I stopped offering the service. My priorities shifted to working on Feywrot Mire, as I was co-lead with the design with GM Flannihan. GM Tamuz picked up the service in 2012 and 2013.

>>Liia- There's intention and then there's appearance. EG seemed lacking in new items compared to previous years, we've already had to buy tickets to another event to get something done that we usually got done at EG (enhancive permanence), and now there's another event with EG-like items. Color me jaded, that's how it looks to me. ~VANKRASN39

Some words on EG 2013, because this event is the culprit. It was my first year as SGM of the events team, but as some of you know, Ebon Gate starts being planned at the beginning of the year. It takes us about 9 months to go from planning to preparations before we open the arches. I was promoted December of 2012, but I was also juggling the Platinum guruship and handing over the Host Manager position to GM Kaikala. Planning for EG was also being worked on by another GM briefly, and it was a small disaster around August 2013. Because of this, some services and feeder items slipped into Ebon Gate and created a benchmark for 2014 and now 2015. Some staff gave me warnings about some of the stuff, but we also approved things in an odd manner around that time (we have since moved away from that). So we had one GM approving services and another leading EG, and then thirty GMs all wanting to make EG great. All this under my supervision. I ignored and dismissed some of the concerns, because in my mind, it was approved... But this is my fault. Even though countless items didn't get released in this manner, a small handful did, and we've paid the price since.

But EG 2015 wasn't sold short in any regard. This past EG was our biggest year yet, in terms of shops, inventory, and hours worked. Collectively, Ebon Gate demanded over 800 merchant hours during the two weeks it ran in both Prime and Platinum. That's over 200 more hours than when the Superstorm had us extend the event. We also had over 150 shops this year, that's over 40 new shops from the debut of Feywrot Mire (in quantity) and over 120 shops were completely refreshed with new inventory for 2015. And that's not counting any of the development of any other aspect of EG. The amount staff worked was well over what we generally even allow (since we ask staff to take breaks). Some staff members worked 8 hours just as a merchant and then jumped on for 4 more hours being support in the background in just a single day. I realize no one is criticizing that aspect, but the event wasn't sold short. Ebon Gate is our yearly venue where we debut new stuff. When the area becomes stale, we begin to redesign the grounds. But EG is not an event where we tend to offer and repeat what's offered.

Briarmoon Cove is a brand new event, with new grounds and lore. It's a hybrid event consisting of desired services, a mini quest, and many newly coded items. It also has an intricate storyline that will have a lasting effect on the game. It was designed by GM Galene and heavily worked on by the World Development team. I know her team is very excited to bring this event to the game. It's all packed into a cheaper price point and will hopefully be an experience you can all enjoy.

---

~Wyrom, APM

>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean

We had a few RotFlares items in the feeder, but I did warn that the NerveRot runestaves and the Duskruin high-end sale were it for those.

The enhancive permanence though only started being around in 2010, it's not as old as magic item recharging or scroll recharging. But we're moving a lot of our enhancive services to different venues. Ebon Gate has become a beast though. A runaway train. Look at the size of it. And even look at what you typed. "Quality matters over quantity." Look at everything that comes jammed into the event that you get now, compared, to say, 2004. Some services weren't offered at EG this year, but it wasn't to spread it to a new event. A lot of the services at Briarmoon Cove that you're seeing as "EG services" are actually a response to what you guys wanted that weren't offered recently. The approvals for (the extra) services started after EG, just as a point of reference -- in fact, the email is dated 12/1/15. Prior to that, none of that was even going to be offered. But again, this is part of the area where you guys don't need to know everything that goes on. Point is Ebon Gate is more a hodgepodge of new wares, fun games, and interesting things to do. We are loads more than that now.

Events are completely voluntary to participate in. We're not squeezing anyone, you don't even have to go. You don't need gear beyond the town armory. These events are extra revenue sources. We have targets, but it's up to the offsite staff to make them appealing enough so we can hit those targets. As someone who didn't buy into every event as a player, I can certainly say not all events appeal to everyone. I'm also never going to grab you by the ankles and shake you for anything you have in your pockets. If you don't wish to go, it's okay in my book.

You know how buying the music supports the band? Sure, you can listen to it on YouTube these days, or be an evil pirate, but for bands to keep making the music, it's important to buy the merchandise. Ever see those "buy me a beer" donate buttons on websites? Well, attending pay events helps get the offsite staff compensated. Am I oversharing? Probably.

---

~Wyrom, APM

>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean

>But we're moving a lot of our enhancive services to different venues.

>Some services weren't offered at EG this year, but it wasn't to spread it to a new event.

That's a bit contradictory.

>Look at everything that comes jammed into the event that you get now, compared, to say, 2004.

I only judge 2012-2015, my most recent rounds of participation. I was not subbed 2004, I returned in '06, and I don't remember much from 07-08, when I did go, then I left again in '09 for 2 years. I am posting based on my specific experiences in the immediate past.

>Events are completely voluntary to participate in.

Yes, and I'm notifying you that you may see fewer ticket sales as the quality has fallen, and it appears that Fleurs agrees, as do others, that the EG event was not up to par (comparing only '14 to '15 since '13 was an aberration), and you should be careful about the perception of nickel and diming, as that is what has happened the past few months (i.e. I had to pay more than usual to get done what I had in the two past years).

>>That's a bit contradictory.

I wasn't talking about anything new. Sylinar's Spire is where we've moved enhancive work, which we've already done (mostly).

>>I only judge 2012-2015, my most recent rounds of participation. I was not subbed 2004, I returned in '06, and I don't remember much from 07-08, when I did go, then I left again in '09 for 2 years. I am posting based on my specific experiences in the immediate past.

You're right. People who don't attend many events only have their experiences to judge an event. And we do appreciate the feedback. It helps us align the perception to the reality, which as you can tell, doesn't line up in most cases (staff thinking we're hitting what's wanted).

>>Yes, and I'm notifying you that you may see fewer ticket sales as the quality has fallen, and it appears that Fleurs agrees, as do others, that the EG event was not up to par (comparing only '14 to '15 since '13 was an aberration), and you should be careful about the perception of nickel and diming, as that is what has happened the past few months (i.e. I had to pay more than usual to get done what I had in the two past years).

It's unfortunate that some of you don't see the value offered at Ebon Gate, beyond a few services that weren't offered. But it's always a tough call because each piece has a value associated with it. It's always tough to also point out to staff that what they are doing isn't welcomed by the community, but I can certainly sit down with staff and tell them what they are doing is a waste of time. Because we'd have to shift what they're doing. I cannot add more to their workload.

---

~Wyrom, APM

>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean

>Frankly.. at this rate.. EG won't be worth it for you if you don't get a chance at a 10x DB with spell knowledge for circles 100, 200, 300, 400, 500, 600, 700, 900. Fine.. 1000, 1100, 1200 and 1700 too. Along with a 10x weapon of your choice with bane and blink. -Trainer

>Enchants, padding, weighting, or forging upgrades... seem a little out of char for the event. -Trainer

No, I've already addressed this, EG has offered up a few special slots for improving items, not a lot, not a big variety, but something. But that didn't exist this past EG. At all. Also, my one requested item for the hopper or general sales that I asked for about 5 times has no mechanical benefit whatsoever, so while you think you know me and what I'm asking for, you don't at all.

>I thought Fleurs quit over the wizard issue... so really could care less. -Trainer

No, that was Taverkin. Fleurs and I don't have much in common besides the fact that we both enjoy events, spend our money on them, and encourage others to go as well. I think I convinced four or five people to buy tickets for EG in 2015. I doubt I'll be as enthusiastic next year without some seriously good teasers, and a promise for more signs.

>It's also really nice that you ~ONLY~ judge the years where EG was insane. Yes, Insane. -Trainer

Again, no, the one year Wyrom pointed out as INSANE (EG13) has been specifically disregarded as an aberration, if you read my post instead of assuming what is says, you might get something out of it.

>It's always tough to also point out to staff that what they are doing isn't welcomed by the community, but I can certainly sit down with staff and tell them what they are doing is a waste of time. Because we'd have to shift what they're doing. I cannot add more to their workload. -Wyrom

>EG has needed to be streamlined as far as shops go for years. Way too many shops selling similar items. There's not much point to having multiple shops selling various props that are duplicated over and over and over. More base items with merchants willing to alter and add their unique scripts to items would be the better route in my opinion. The shopping just gets tedious when you start to have 100+ shops and often times next to no information about what the shop is actually selling. -BHTM/Richard

Richard is 100% correct, that would be a good place to start.

I will say that the ticket system vs. junk in the hopper is a step in the right direction. I had an easier time unloading from EG than Duskruin, but I didn't spend a single EG ticket as the ticket shops didn't have anything that appealed to me.

>Number and variety of events over the past 3-5 years has been outstanding if you ask me. I hadn't, to my recollection, purchased anything prior to that because I wasn't intrigued by the offerings, but I've been to nearly everything over the past few years.

I absolutely agree, up until the last quarter.

<long post> -- LadyFleur

In large part, I interpreted Wyrom's <long post> to boil down to, "Mechanical-type benefits is not what EG is about. We deliberately re-focused the event, and if those are what you want, look to other events."

The fact that over the last several years players had come to (very vocally) expect those services at that event bears this out.

>Because we'd have to shift what they're doing. I cannot add more to their workload.

To add to this, nobody is asking staff to add more to their workload. I think shifting services to create more, and more expensive, events is putting more of a strain on both staff and players, because as I said, most players also cannot afford to attend every single event if there are a dozen of them in a year. Similarly, I can't even imagine the amount of work that goes into the planning, venue creation, new QC, etc. related to each new event.

You have a finite player base, that is small and niche. Financially, the extras in this game cost more than any other and while I'm fortunate that it isn't a factor in my personal decision making regarding event attendance, it is for many.

Yes, we can all choose which events to attend. But I always feel bad when I see certain events or services that are poorly attended despite equally hard work put into the planning and execution. I don't think having more events with lower attendance for each helps the GM workload or morale at all, just as it doesn't help the player wallet.

You speak of concern over telling staff that what they are doing is a waste of time. It's not that it's not appreciated; it's more that when it comes to prioritizing value, players also have to make decisions about where to spend their money, time and silvers. So players possibly not attending EG or similar events in the future may not be a case of them being "evil pirates" of GS or not wanting to "press the donate button" to thank staff, but that due to changes in event structure, content, and pricing, they will be forced to make different choices about how to spend their money, time and silvers.

>>So players possibly not attending EG or similar events in the future may not be a case of them being "evil pirates" of GS or not wanting to "press the donate button" to thank staff, but that due to changes in event structure, content, and pricing, they will be forced to make different choices about how to spend their money, time and silvers.

>>If EG is not going to be what it was in 2012 or 2014 (again, skipping 2013), then the price should come down by $10, which is what a service costs at the Spire.

Do you really want service caps at EG if the services were like the Spire?

>>You speak of concern over telling staff that what they are doing is a waste of time. It's not that it's not appreciated; it's more that when it comes to prioritizing value, players also have to make decisions about where to spend their money, time and silvers. So players possibly not attending EG or similar events in the future may not be a case of them being "evil pirates" of GS or not wanting to "press the donate button" to thank staff, but that due to changes in event structure, content, and pricing, they will be forced to make different choices about how to spend their money, time and silvers.

Gotta stop using that comparison wrong. Nothing about evil pirates applied to GS. It wasn't an analogy. My point with saying that was I realize not everyone buys music anymore. It was literally telling you that going to events is like buying a staff member a beer, or dinner, or a pizza, or tossing them some cash for playing the banjo in a busy subway.

---

~Wyrom, APM

>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean

>>Except we do buy music (subscriptions to GS that are WAY more expensive than other RPG games), and the record company (simu) is not paying adequate royalties to the artists (GM's). You're asking us to pay for concert tickets, then throw cash on the stage as they perform.

Huh? It's not an analogy. You're substituting GS for the music industry. I'm point blank saying it's how staff is compensated.

I'm also not telling you to throw cash at us. I'm actually telling you if you don't like something, you're 100% off the hook and don't need to. However, I've asked for a list of what we can do to make EG better, or at least better explanation of where the lowered value of the EG ticket comes from.

---

~Wyrom, APM

>>They call him Wyrom, not afraid to get dirty; work all day, in game by 5:30; loresongs eloquent, item embellishment, double speed development... ~Silvean

<<Then why would Aulis post earlier saying he wanted to do the permanence service at EG15, but didn't have a convenient time to hold it?

I mentioned it because it is generally something I like to do as a service (in general and not just specific to EG). It's quick and easy for me to do since I've done it before. Also, I'm not a coder of scripts. So unlike many GM's that do release awesome and new scripts for items at events I don't have that opportunity, currently. And I like to offer services that are more than just the typical GALD. GALD can be boring, for me personally.


~Aulis
Forums Manager
QC'er

>It's nothing personal. There is no player griefing meetings held where we plot anyone's misfortune. I stopped offering the service in 2012 because I was a lot more busy with what I was working on.

Yes, I've said I understand this the entire time, but it does not negate the fact that we had to purchase tickets to an additional event to get it done. I hark on this one service because this is the one service where the monetary value had been determined, the rest is debatable.

>coming up with more ways to charge for anything beyond standard gear, which.. for many classes is largely unplayable (you can argue otherwise, but.. from a player trying to have FUN, your wrong) while limiting what was once available 15 years ago for free. and adding price tags to it.

My level 75 warrior uphunts, unspelled, with a +18 blessable weapon and +18 armor. He one-hit kills most things he encounters. It's pretty fun!

>>>Off the top of my head:
Ironwright flares
Ithzir unlockings
forged weapon upgrades/enchanting/weighting
Wand creation w/2x cost for mage rechargeable with a fairly wide variety of spells allowed (including raise dead)
Bubble flares
Customized complimenting mirror messaging
Merchant that played a dice game with prizes including enchanting/weighting/flares/etc for weapons bought in his shop.
Heavy padding added to cloth armor
Black and white ora unlocking
Adding banes to weapons
Glamour tattoos
Customized siegery mini's
Unlocking creepy toys
Eahnor Claidhmore and Eahnor katana raffled at EG 2012
Acuity/mana flare upgrades
Kroderine/Adamantine/Zelnorn weapon/armor/shield creation
custom idols
Ensorcelling weapons, runestaves, shields and armor, including those not normally able to be ensorcelled by players. No enhancive, fusion, or holy items.
Customizing haunted or whispering masks
Distributing rare scrying devices using a few methods, including raffles and a fortunetelling contest
Raffling a prophecy mask that can be used once per day
Revel of the Anfelt level raffles


You know.. ~IF~ they offered all these things.. they could NEVER offer anything new. Besides, These are not STANDARD in any way shape or form, or at least not most of them.


Maybe it's just me, but I haven't missed an EG in 10 years. I NEVER go to EG thinking I am going to walk away with something mechanical. EG, for me, is all about the fluff, and the GALD. It's where I get my GALD on. Yeah, there have been raffles, and auctions, and spins for some amazing mechanical things at EG over the years (not counting God Auctions), but I mean, lets face it... Unlimited ticket sales and EXTREMELY limited slots = not gana get it. Unless you are one of the uber rich anyway. Generally, the only mechanical things I have ever gotten out of EG really are hopper pulls.


I was hoping this year was going to be a Mechanical year (2016 in general, not 2015 EG) as in having a mechanical services event. We will see. At least there will be an auction this year.

Honestly.. the only mechanical things I could see being offered at EG yearly to me.. would be NPC ensorcelling and black ora unlocking. Since there are items out there that Sorcs just can not do, period, and always nice to have the chance to upgrade some hopper black ora items. Both of these even fit in with the generally darker side of EG.

I'd rather see ithzir and voln armor at a different event. Granted, I would like to see ensorcell and black ora at a different event too, because of unlimited tickets, but I can live with it.

>Frankly, I long for the days when it was a whole lot more fluff/RP. As a player, I preferred those types of events by far. I have capped 2 characters (of different professions) with 4-5x gear (I got better stuff after I capped because of friends, mostly). I'm not telling you this to say you should do it that way, or that uber gear isn't appealing to a lot of players.

Isn't there a balance that can be reached between the two? It seemed to happen at EG14.

>I'm just saying I never much cared about the mechanical stuff, I had fun in other ways.

To tell you a little more about my GS life as a main complainant since you're boxing people into fluff/RP love or mechanics love, I typically hunt one day on the weekend and almost always play seven. The rest of the time I do CHE stuff (anywhere from hosting/prepping events to 10 page annex designs), and edit the wiki. I prefer to play this way than having a daily hunting grind. There are players who do have fun in other ways, and we still want there to be a touch of mechanical at EG with things like RotFlares/Ithzir unlocking being very limited. We can like both.

As Fleurs and I both mentioned, a lot of people can't afford to go to event after event and it used to be that if a player could only go to one event a year, they could go to EG and get mostly fluff, but also find somewhat mechanically useful things, and have a very small chance at something really cool.

>I'm personally working on expanding Summit Academy for the future. That's my personal project, my labor of love, my baby.

It is obvious when an event is somebody's baby and when it is not. I look forward to the next SEF, I really enjoy what I got in the last run, and whatever else you have planned for that area.

First EG I went to was in 1999, only "mechanical" thing I remember was an automated flare adder that would add flares up to 10x for a set price.

I think EG started getting insane around 2005 onward. Having auctions at it also didn't help, putting shadowdeath weapons in the hopper as well. Same with having weighting and enchanting on player forged items. It just kinda all steamrolled.

Chrism holders/herb bundlers would be more fluff then Mechanical to me I would think.

>Personally, I'd love to make EG a lot less mechanical, add more RP related events/merchants/games, and move a lot of the mechanical merchants/services to a totally different venue

I'd love this myself, but then I've got a lot of nice stuff already, so I can see where others might be coming from if they want more mechanically beneficial stuff too.

--Hal

>Yes, there were a lot of shops, but that strikes me as a wonderful thing and I will be sorry to see fewer next time.

I did about 100 shops on the list and I'll be happy to see a shorter shop list, especially as some GMs like to fancify the shop structure a la Ghule.

Did we need 4 map shops?* Couldn't all the maps have been sold in one shop?

*Maphaven, Maps Galore, Off the Beaten Trail, Questing for Maps

I'm not one for writing essay posts, so I'll leave the map shops as my given example, sorry map lovers.

Also signs. The end.

>Each shop and selection of maps had a different theme of maps.

As you well know, shops can have several containers, or even several rooms. It seemed like filler to have 3 shops selling only maps, and 1 with maps and compasses.

It seems to me like combining niche items into one shop would save a ton of GM time on room design/shop deployment. Besides that, it's more user friendly. When someone asks, "Where is this map found?" What would you tell them without a player-driven shop list? "Oh, go look in 1 of these 4 shops?"

It's the same criticism I have for a document with ~60 different cultural options: there seems to be a lack of editing. If everyone in charge says EG is a monster of an event, then maybe it needs more overseeing. I'm curious of how many items at EG didn't sell anything at all, or even shops for that matter.

I assume you have seen the Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, KFC combo stores? My favorite is the Dunkin' Donut/Baskin Robbins combo.