<<I got tired of fixing bugs and coded the Mend spell up during this past weekend. It still has to go through QC, and will probably be released during HWN.


*cheers Valdrik*

Holding a spell slot open for your spell.

<<I take it the system is still very crude on all fronts besides very basic concepts?>>

From what they said at the Con everything has already been decided and approved they just need to code it

I've still got all of the posted Con notes if anyone wants them, IM me.

Rigek

I have gone to find myself, if I get back before I return keep me here.

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>>Though i would rather not see spells required for enchanting. Or else you would have to follow certain spell lists to be able to do so. Not really allowing for your chariter to be personalized to your favorite elements and spells. I would almost rather it was considered to have a whole new book of Enchanting magic. possible requiring 2 or more spells from two or more books to have acess to the enchanting section.

There will be two spells for enchanting, Mend and the yet to be named but temporarily termed Siphon. Those two will be the only "required" spells at this point. As for which spellbooks they will go into? I'd guess aether on the Siphon spell and perhaps Earth on the Mend but those are just my off hand guesses.

>>I also would like to see this as being skill based instead of circle based. If a circle 10 warrior mage decided he did not like hunting but loved enchanting he could learn the skills needed to enchant. If i was say circle 10 but had 300 magical devices i don't see any reason i could not enchant, just that i might be limited to the few spells i know as to being what i could enchant a weaopn with.

The only circle requirement I can recall Valdrik mentioning was I believe 50th to learn Siphon (I could be mistaken going by memory not notes) beyond that it would be entirely skill bassed off of Elemental Arcana and which ever skills are needed for the actual etching. Keep in mind that the concept is that of putting complex patterns of magic in a working format into a weapon of some sort...One should certainly have to be at least past aprenticeship to do so and if you think about it, we can't title ourself as a true Warrior Mage until 30th circle, 50th isn't all that out of line for enchanting.

>>Another aspect i think would be nice, would be mages of certain attunements being able to enchant those abilities better. Or a better discription being that if i know a tier 6 fire spell i would be better able to enchant fire then say someone with only a lvl 3 tier spell. The more complex things you know, the more able you can control that aspect of the elements.

Actually, the elemental Sigils come in 3 strengths. For the sake of ease I'll refer to them as small, medium and large. If you used siphon to power an electric sigil off a faenrae reaver you might only get a small sigil. Powering up off a Swamp troll's arc light might get you medium and a soerdemore could well get you a large Sigil of Electricity.

Most of this is my interpretation of what Valdrik stated at the Enchanting meeting. I could have easily misunderstood parts and the implimentation could well vary due to coding constraints. However, I think these concepts are at least on the right track and should help answer how it is going to work.

>>Quick question I had, when you cast Siphon exactly what will be the result of the draining. Will we have an <elemental> substance now in our hand, or on the ground, or what?

IIRC, the result of a successful use of the "Siphon" spell would be a mental image, called a sigil, of either a raw elemental form (say an electrical sigil) or, if you already have a raw form, it would give a spell effect sigil, like a projectile (from FS or similar spell).

These mental images are what you would be etching into the weapon in order to enchant it.

~Kyn (Kynevon)

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>>I think what I mean is what are the Elements we use in mixing going to look like? Substance or what?

Umm. Mental images, used to etch a design (or rather, set of designs) on a weapon.

Once etched, the enchantment is set by using the Mend spell to repair the weapon. Best set enchantment would be if you can fully repair the weapon on a single cast of Mend.

But the only physical parts of weapon enchanting will be the weapon itself, and your etching supplies.

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Beginning of reposts from June:

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Section 2 (Weapon Enchanting Seminar Notes)
Date: 06/06/2004
Leader: Valdrik

Proposal has been fully approved.

Goals of the System
Mythbusting
Theories & Premises
Skills, Spells and Abilities Requiresd
The Process

In-depth system for Wms.

Guild-specific method to learn Lore skills

Add more depth via PC made Magic Weapons

Not going to use Alchemy
Too many tertiary skills would be involved
NMUs limited to passive magic weapons enchantments.
Use new Mech lore skills
WM Lore skill Elemental Arcana ? not enchanting only
Two new spells for enchanting
Mend ? Repairs physical damage to items
Siphon ? Moves elemental essence from people/creatures to items.
New ability: Elemental Attunement
Use outside of enchanting
Required to make enchantments

Consistency is good, and maintained.

Polar opposite, related, unrelated, same

Fire, electricity & air; related.
Earth, water, aether; related.
Pattern defines effect.

Para-elements from mixing two+ base elements
Variable difficulty.
Aether needed to mix polar opposites
Para-elements can be mixed with a base element again for a new effect
Eventually, para-elements can be mixed for even cooler effects.

Para-elements are harder to enchant than base elements
Multiple enchantments are harder to enchant
Element mixes affect difficulty, too.

Sigils: magical energy definer
Nexus Runes: describes the behavior of the enchantment

Sigils & nexus runes are temporary basis, by focusing on sources of elemental power.
Base sigils only learnable, para sigils made by mixing base sigils

Pattern Sight ability, part of Elemental Attunement
Study a spell pattern to learn a nexus rune

Weapon, no difference between forged or store-bought.
Etching suppllies for Sigils and Runes.
Elemental essences from the Siphon spell.
Extra ingredients for the specific enchantment.
Etching system ? better is more difficult to use
Etching damages the weapon!

Elemental essence gathered by siphon spell, from items, creatures & people.
Essence power affects enchantment complexity!

Etch as soon as the sigils and runes are memorized!
Undamaged weapon to start!
Optionally pre-mark pattern on weapopn
Etch weapon via one of the three methods.
Clean weapon of etching remains
Etching WILL damage weapon
Add essence separately or storage vessel to pre-mix essences
Essences can leak before final mix into enchantment
Powder and sprinkle other ingredients, as needed.
Infuse pattern into weapon.
Mend spell infuses/repairs weapon.
Complexitiy & method of etching cause the damage.
Single mend is better than multiple
Will affect type of enchantment

Powdered cambrinth or gaethzen

Siphon attunement into weapon with a usage verb

Charge or use verb
Use verb to stop use as well.

Enchantments can fade unless the rare permanent
Returns weapon to normal when gone.
Broken enchanted weapons will cause possible backlash
Enchantment requires a slot, bigger weapons have more slots.

Armor enchanting base is also defined by this system.

Released in stages, so that it doesn?t hit us cold.

Probably spells first
Then Elemental Attunement and Elemental Arcana skill
Additional steps are still being defined.

Elemental Attunement will be switchable.,
Pattern Sight @ 50th circle

Permanent takes a lot of skill
Enchanting targeted to start at 50th circle.

Swappable weapons will work with enchanting.

Valdrik is currently planning to have Mend able to repair armor/weapons that are past the auto-repair shops ability.

---

Section 3 (More Defined Notes)
>>So any word on what kinds of things the enchantments will do? Like exploding arrow heads or lightning swords or something that shock our victim cause nerve dmg?

Sorry about my notes being so incomplete, I don't type as fast as Valdrik was going. I am sure that David/Jolebin will be posting his notes later, but in the meantime, I will try to explain what we learned.

Enchantment will use a new skill (Elemental Arcana) in a similar fashion to how Astrology works for enchantment for Moon Mages. MD will still be involved. So will one (or more) of the creation lore skills, still to be determined, but Valdrik will make sure that we know what skill(s) will be involved in enchanting before the split.

Enchantment uses 2 new spells, Mend and Siphon (real name to be determined later). Mend is fairly straight forward, being used to repair the damage that part of the enchanting process will incur to the weapon being enchanted. As a bonus, Valdrik (who doesn't like lame things like one-shot pony spells only useful for enchanting) will also try to make it so that ths spell can pretty much fix most anything. Siphon (real name to be determined) is a spell that sucks the elemental essence out of creatures, people and/or items into another item. This will be used to both temporarily (single use) learn the required elemental sigil (earth, air, fire, water, electricity, aether or a para-elemental) that provides the "material" for the enchantment, but it also teach (again, single use) the Nexus Runes which will define the form of the enchantment.

So, as an example, using the Water sigil, and a Nexus Rune learned from Fire Shard, you could have a weapon which shoots some form of water bolt. Similarly, using a Mud (Earth and Water para-element) Sigil, and a Nexus Rune from the Paladin Halt spell (yes, Valdrik was saying it would/should work with non-WM spells), you might wind up with a weapon that basically coats your opponent in a coccon of mud.

Sigils will come in three levels of difficulty, simple, medium, and complex; the more complex, the harder to scribe but the more they can do. Similarly, Nexus Runes will have the same levels, and that will affect how much or what they can do from the source that they are based off of. A simple rune from MoF might only have a illumination or outward force ability, but a complex one might give you that flaming sword you always wanted.

Enchantments will basically be of two types, charged and duration. Charged will use a charge to have their effect, sort of like runes; while duration will work as long as the enchantment lasts. Most enchantments will not be permanent, but only temporary. Before you go ballistic, Valdrik was talking real life months for the temporary, not days, so it will be of value; while promoting repeat customers. ;)

Enchantments will also be either passive (which anyone can use) or active, which only MUs can use, just like runes vs self-casting devices. Passive devices may use charges, which can only be re-charged by an MU. When an enchantment ends (talking about the final gasp, after several months, here), the item is not destroyed, it just returns to what it was before being enchanted.

Enchanted items cannot be imbued by MMs without destroying the enchantment (because of the way imbue works); although an imbued item can be enchanted (although that may not be a good idea, since a significant number of the imbuements apparently cause the item imbued to crumble when the imbuement ends).

Enchanting a weapon is performed in three basic steps.
1) Obtain your weapon (make sure it is undamaged to start, as the enchanting process could destroy an already damaged weapon) and any additional ingredients needed (cambrinth powder, for example)
Get your Sigil and Nexus Rune memorized
2) Pre-mark your weapon with the Sigil and Rune ( Optional)
Etch the weapon with the Sigil and Rune using one of three methods:
Simple carving with a simple tool
Carving with a more advanced tool
Acid etching (highest detail, most damage)
3) Mend the weapon to repair the damage and finish the enchantment.
The best final step is to fully repair the weapon usinga single cast of Mend, as that imbeds the magic most firmly.

After the weapon is enchanted, it will not have any visible markings (enchantment effect notwithstanding), but will respond to being perceived for effects.

Simply put, what the enchantments can do depends on the level of the Sigil, and the source and level of the Nexus Rune. Higher level sources (like Ati'ket) will provide more possible results for the enchantment than lower level sources (like maybe goblin shaman).

Especially once you start adding in the possibilities of the para-elementals to the brew.

Earth, Air, Fire, Water, Electricity and Aether base.
Mix any non-polar opposites, related (off the same triangle) easiest, non-polar (off different triangles but not opposing like fire and earth) more difficult. The hardest are the opposing para-elemnt combinations, which actually require three elements in their mix, as you have to add in Aether. Fire + Water + Aether or Earth + Air + Aether. Aether & Electricity, since Aether is already part of the mix, cannot be combined at all.

Pretty much mind-blowing.

---End of reposts from June

~Kyn (Kynevon)

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I really hope Mend is an aether spell otherwise we would be kept out of non-metal/non-earth based weapons and armor.


~Worrclan, Dwarf of the Realms-

<<Actually, it is a Fire spell, and it has the spell Cauterize as a prerequisite. ;)>>

Who said that? Mend is already in QC and there is not Cauterize spell...


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<<I did. But didn't you notice the wink?>>

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Post 822:

>About the only headway made so far is...

> I got tired of fixing bugs and coded the Mend spell up during this past weekend. It still has to go through QC, and will probably be released during HWN.

~V

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Still planned for HWN? just curious, I know you have had alot on your plate lately.

Yeah, my bad, Sir Chakram.

I was talking that an enchantment might perform better for enchanter, which is what you are saying is the case.

Maybe Arcath was asking: does enchantment work better if enchanter is also forger...then I dun goofed.

Thanks for clarification.

How's the sig go...?

Player of Tessaa, Village Idiot

I recently heard that the spells for Enchanting will be a minnimal of 50th circle just to get them. Plus we will also be starting off learning a new Arcana Lore at 0. The premise of starting it at 0 is to give everyone an even playing field. But, it isn't even, let alone fair. Yes, older characters have earned their spot to be able to move experiance faster than younger characters. They also have the ability to afford it.

Moon Mage's can enchant at circle 30, 20 hard to get circles before Warrior Mage's can even begin practicing. For being a Magic Primary guild just like them this just annoys me. How many years have Moon Mage's been able to enchant and profit from their work while Warrior Mage's only can kill. All we do is kill. Sure, we can kill things great with our spells. But if we can learn from our spells at the rate our Guild expects us to be moving. Then the moment we get to melee we get cut into ribbons. That is a wonderful way to learn the parry and multi opponent were expected to learn.

Am I dissapointed? Yep
Am I questioning why I ever became a Warrior Mage as the only character I can afford to play? Better believe it.


Were in the proffession of killing. That is all Warrior Mage's do. We do not even get RPA's for role playing what our guild does.

Please take complaints to the Complaints folder.

Thanks,
Wixs

With any further questions, feel free to contact me (Mod-Wixs@play.net), Senior Board Monitor Annwyl (DR-Annwyl@play.net), or Message Board Supervisor Cecco (DR-Cecco@play.net).

Have there been any suggestions for ways a younger mage might be able to aid an older mage in the Enchanting process?

I have a moon mage prime, and I expect to meet the reqs for the enchanting quest around 30th. Thing is, there is a ton of stuff to enchant, starting with stuff no one would buy. The money comes in with gweths and CJs, this takes consierable more skill than a 30th circle moon mage has.

War Mage is one guild I havent played, probably due to the old WM-MM wars of the old days, heh. I hope to start one soon, and this sounds like a great ability for you guys. A system outside of hunting where you can excel, hope it comes out well.

I have been paying little attention to this ability in its development stages, could someone fill me in on the details? What is proposed for things you can enchant? How long off is it? (soon) And how do you all feel about it?

Thanks,
-Player of Pigelt, straying into enemy folders...

So, the caterpiller has emerged from the cocoon, as a shark, with a gun for a mouth.


You exclaim, "Im a mad skra!"
Tribanin chuckles.
Tribanin gestures at you, asking that you no longer speak freely.
Tribanin says, "The mad skra, is silenced."

>>I have been paying little attention to this ability in its development stages, could someone fill me in on the details? What is proposed for things you can enchant? How long off is it? (soon) And how do you all feel about it?

Briefly, Warrior Mage Enchanting will start with weapons, which is what has been approved and is on Valdrik's ToDo list. At some future time, it is possible that WMs will also get to enchant armor, as well.

The easiest way to let you know what was announced and discussed about Warrior Mage enchanting is to:

A) direct you to my web site (http://www.kynevon.info), where I have posted copies of my notes and the more understandable post I made about what was announced at the Weapon Enchanting seminar held at SimuCon 2004 by Valdrik;

B) suggest that you do a search in this category for posts by both DR-Valdrik and DR-Chakram, as those posts will generally cover the announcements for things like the change to what the Mend spell can do now as compared to what was originally planned for it to do;

C) advise you to check on a couple of sites like Wynder's site (http://dr.warcry.com) and Tyrathia's site (http://www.drfuturepast.com), as they both tend to archive notes from the seminars, as well.

~Kyn (Kynevon)

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well good to know elemental arcana can be trained in combat, wonder how though...

>>A new magic skill that we learn at prim rates.. gee that won't make it easier for us to hit that overall magic requirement any easier...


You never know it may not help at all much like empaths can't include targetted magic to their overalls reguardless of how many ranks it has. They are several instances in which a certain skill is ommitted from the overall req needed for a guild.

The way moon mages have it set up niether astrology, teaching, nor scholarship can apply to their lore reqs.

yeah I thought so too but not being a warrior mage I wasn't going to say anything ( or atleast I haven't played a warrior mage in god knows how many years)

>>I believe elemental arcania is listed as a lore skill, not a magic skill.

According to what Valdrik said at SimuCOn 2004, Elemental Arcana is going to be a Lore skill, and it should be useable as one of the Lore skills for that requirement.

>>If its learnable in combat I bet it's something like you can focus on a creature to see its elemental weakness.

One of the uses for the Elemental Arcana skill is going to be our own ability to set an elemental attunement, reducing the mana cost of spells from one of our six spell books.

This ability is currently something provided by the Fir familiars, but is going to be changed into something that we can do for ourselves instead, so that a Warrior Mage can have any familiar out, but decide for themselves which type of spell they can get a mana savings on.

My understanding of what Valdrik was saying is that, as your Elemental Arcana skill increases, the time that you have to remain attuned to a specific mana type before being able to switch to a different type will shrink.

~Kyn (Kynevon)

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Okay, looked through all the posts and didn't find something relating to my question. It seems that enchanting is first going to be for weapon use, and then possibly armor. Now, if it does go to armor, any ideas on how it might do so? Because truthfully, I'd love to own a set of YS enchanted leathers. Tap it, spell takes affect, and its duration is based on the enchanters skill. Could be rechargable, or after enough uses, the enchant wears off and needs to be redone. Would be a nice way to make plenty of coin for such an enchantment. Anyways, just testing the water

>It'll probably be by the same method warmages enchant weapons. Same runes/etching/mend type deal same combo runes may or may not mean the same for both weapons and armor who knows.

Oh yeah. I wanna be able to set my armor on fire. While I'm wearing it.

Steel.