Everything Rakash has always bizarrely bucked the trend of sensible nomenclature. I doubt it has anything to do with the rest of Dev staff. I assume everything in the village is just so old it predates the mandate.

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"Magic has rules and so does posting on these forums." -Annwyl

The village might be newly released, but I am fairly sure it was suggested that this village has had work put into it sense the race was released all this years ago.


_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

>>Apart from the fact that Kaldar have no real connection to gems besides icesilk anyway (Which is ridiculous itself - A people who focus on a spartan, back to nature lifestyle weave cloaks/dresses/shirts out of GEMS?) It is absolutely this.

I too don't see any particular connection between Kaldar and gems, nor do I have any real understanding of why icesilk exists. With it, I just shrug and assume that any culture can have its crazy-elite class of objects. But yeah, it really doesn't mesh at all with the spartan nature that I see in the rest of the lore for Kaldar.

The only reason I could see for Kaldar having gem-colored eyes is if they were somehow magically connected to stones -- something that would have to be kind of massively retconned into their history, I'm afraid.

Also, just from a personal perspective, I mostly just scratch my head at current gem-colored eyes, for all the reasons stated (running to Wikipedia; most gems come in a variety of colors). I wouldn't want to subject my character to them.

I would, however, love to see some other kind of development for Kaldar along the lines of their focus on returning to nature. Books, areas, clothes, NPCs, events, etc. I wouldn't be opposed to differing feature options, but they would have to make sense.

Another option I'd love to see (best discussed in a different thread) would be the old idea of Racial Feats. Give me cold resistance please!

>I would not use the Rakash anything as a model for anything.

I'd still like to see the room names changed to be english. I don't have any sense of where I am or what the setting is like without reading the entire room text. For that matter, why isn't the room text in gibberish too. If you're going to jump the shark, why not jump 10 sharks?

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>describe boar
It's a boar. It doesn't like you.

On icesilk/gem eyes, etc...

You know, there just MIGHT have been more than one tribe/sect of Kaldaran peoples, and not all of them might have been the tree huggin stereotype.

Some, for instance, might have been mariners since the beginning of time. Hardy and true of spirit, and quite rugged, given their environment.

Some else might have been mystics, who dwelt near and delved into the mysteries of the arcane, including the misty borders and the Ocular.

Some could have been rooted farmers and villager types, depending upon the meager living they could raise from the bare land they stood on.

And some yet might also have been nomadic, known for bonding with mammoths as a rite of passage, carriers of news and dealings amongst the tribes, looked upon for judgement in times of question.

And still, some more might have been mountain dwellers, who indeed delved their depths and made the most fabulous things from the mineral deposits they found therein.

But...who knows?


~Mammoth Rider Maulem Akavame, Death Dealer of Therengia

Telfogli says, "It is the Barbarian who refuses to continue to die who has failed their duty."


The Barbarian Guildleader Les says, "Kill. Don't care what. Make dead.">

<<The Kaldar are a sect of the Gorbesh. As a whole, they espouse the back-to-nature lifestyle. Decades in Kermoria, of course, means that young Kaldar have grown up Kermorian and aren't necessarily bound to that. But Kaldar ancestral items and cultural mores would and should reflect that original outlook.>>

This is a very Gorbesh/intellectual centric point of view, that while technically correct from a strictly scholarly standpoint, fails to take in to account how both time and distance have shaped and changed the Kaldarian cultural and perspective.

Taking players out of the mix I would be very surprised if most Kaldar (read: mass of faceless/nameless Kaldar NPCs) who live the northern half of the world have a strong if any connection to their Gorbesh roots. Those who came here were political/religious refugees and less likely to have had a positive outlook on their lives in Alberia; and would have been less likely to have shared their Gorbesh roots with their children, and now their children's children. Many I suspect might be ignorant of what the word Gorbesh even means.

Modern Kaldar, has a whole I would argue would have developed a very Kaldar centric culture which reflects their standing and place within the new societies they live in.

All that being said however; the "tree hugging stereotype" is critical to any sort of categorization of Kaldar society within Albaria itself. In the original splintering by definition to be Kaldar was to want to get back to ones cultural roots (read: tree huggers) If you did not fit within that category you could be any number of things however what you were not was Kaldar.

As time went on, it is possible (although no GM has stated this to be true) that one could be identified as Kaldar based exclusively on a religious schism in which some of the Kaldar came to worship the 13. However, that is a very dangerous path to walk because the PC and NPC Kaldar that we deal in game are ones that came here as result of that religious schism. As players for all we know 1% of 1% of Kaldar follow the 13 however, because 99.9% of the Kaldar who followed Trimbolt were follows of the 13 we all simply assume that most or all Kaldar also worship the 13.

>>Modern Kaldar, has a whole I would argue would have developed a very Kaldar centric culture which reflects their standing and place within the new societies they live in.

I agree with this. Any newly rolled up Kaldar is essentially a second-generation immigrant, and so there is a lot of flexibility for adapting to the Kermorian culture. Some will come from families with stronger ties to Albaria than others, depending largely on how strongly their parents tried to preserve this culture.

However, to get back to the thrust of the argument, regardless of the different types of Kaldar there may be, I still see no particular reason that we should change them genetically to reflect gem-colored eyes.

Even though it's certainly possible that there is some sort of gem connection within the culture that exists, to me it's akin to saying they should have bark-colored skin because of their back-to-nature attitude. Not saying it would be impossible to retcon (we've seen stranger things), just saying that it's a bit out of left field.

A couple of asides:

>>The Kaldar are a sect of the Gorbesh.

Isn't it true that technically the Kaldar are totally separate from the Gorbesh? (Other than physiologically of course.) I.e., a Kaldar isn't a part of the Gorbesh culture; they specifically rejected that culture. So they are in no way a sect or subset, yes?

>>...because 99.9% of the Kaldar who followed Trimbolt were follows of the 13...

Where are you getting this info, out of curiosity? I've read what I could find on the Kaldar, but I couldn't find anything that specifically said that they all came north for religious reasons. Some, yes, but isn't it possible that others came along for different reasons?

>>This is difficult to explain but consider that teenagers frequently reject the culture of their parents and their youth. They don't cease to be what they are, of course, despite this rejection.

How many generations out of France do your ancestors need to have been before you are no a longer Frenchmen?

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>>Not only did I not dispute this, I actually presented the same point earlier.

Yes, I know. That's why I said, "I agree with this" before expanding on your point.

>>This is difficult to explain but consider that teenagers frequently reject the culture of their parents and their youth. They don't cease to be what they are, of course, despite this rejection.

But we aren't talking about teenagers; we're talking about a race/nation. A more apt comparison might be the U.S. rejecting the British. Sure, for a little while some people in the U.S. may have still identified as British, but as a whole they became an entirely new country, and new people, and would likely take (extreme?) offense to being called British.

Yes, of course they are physiologically identical still. All we're talking about is what words they will use and want applied to them, and I'd argue that most Kaldar (who identify as Kaldar) would probably hate being called Gorbesh.

If you have time, would you answer my question about your information on religion? I am still very interested in knowing about how many migrating Kaldar worshipped the 13.

Gem colored eyes is a poor example because Kaldar do not have a reputation for having anything to do with gems except for icesilk which everyone hates.

I could see it for Dwarves, but we can do better.

Yeah, all 4 of the late-arrival races have text out of character creation that is outdated at this point.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

Belladzia hasn't posted anything since the contest she hosted in Sept. 2009.

Armifer hasn't said anything about becoming our champion.

In general, no one has responded when we've asked what's up. Presumably Belladzia is either gone and taking time off, and they are aware of the situation and dealing with it.

As a newish Kaldar, I'm interested in developing stronger Kaldar rp and meeting other Kaldar players. Are there any in game Kaldar gatherings, or is anyone interested in organizing any? Does anyone have any suggestions for library volumes that an aspiring Kaldar rp-er should read? Info about what libraries they are located in would also be appreciated. Thanks! Look forward to meeting you all! Tenebra

If you haven't already, check out Elanthipedia. The Albarian timeline is particularly helpful for getting a lot of concrete clues about what was going on between the Gorbesh, Kaldar, Gnomes, and other Albarian races. There are some good books listed under their "Gorbesh" search too -- the Gorbesh Calendar, Dictionary, and especially Religion are all really helpful.

I've never done any meetings or the like, but if you're ever interested in meeting in game for some RP feel free to drop me a line. My IM is Eyuve.

You're probably going to hate me for these answers but whatever!

>>What makes a Kaldar different than a Human?

The same thing that makes a Russian different than a Brazilian.

>>What makes a Kaldar different than a Gorbesh?

The same thing that makes a Protestant different than a Roman Catholic.

If those sound vague, I don't mean them to be. It's just that I kinda see Kaldar as the "Humans" of a different continent, and due to being in that other location they just slightly evolved in a different manner. When comparing Kaldar to Human, the differences seem to be minor evolutionary quirks based on their initial locations moreso than a heavily different genetic structure (like Prydean or S'kra or Elves etc etc etc).

And, when it comes to Kaldar vs Gorbesh, it seems to be more a philosophical/religious thing than something notably racial. Another comparison would be that the Kaldar are Amish while the Gorbesh are everyone else living in Pennsylvania.

First off, welcome and yay for taking on this responsibility.

Second, please tell me you have the stuff that Belladzia worked on with myself and several other long-time Kaldar. It really answers the question you just posed quite well. If you do I won't burden the forums with a long winded post. If you don't have any of that... I'll cry a little at the lack of communication when GMs disappear, but I'll dig around my hard drive and send you the logs of those meetings (I might do that anyway).

~Hunter Hanryu
http://drplat.com/CombatEquipmentCompendium.xls
http://tinyurl.com/HanryuTanning

1) What makes a Kaldar different than a Human?

Kaldar are more adapted to the cold, have more muscle mass, and are taller. Sort of like Neandertal vs. Cro-Magnon.

Culturally, Kaldar/Gorbesh are different than Humans as they seem to be more centralized with their beliefs. Humans are more diverse in beliefs, opinions, and organizations. There is less diversity in Gorbesh/Kaldar society but more unity.

I've only been playing Risty for two months, but one thing I noticed is that Kaldar stick together and help each other out. Whether this is the lack of clans, the relatively small size of Kaldar, or the type of person who is more likely to go with Kaldar, I'm not sure.

I think Kaldar like to think of themselves as more noble, disciplined, and generally capable of greater things verses the average Human. A Human might see this as arrogance or self-glorification. I think a Kaldar is puzzled why a Human would be willing to some how settle for less. I think Kaldar feel a greater feeling of weight on their shoulders.

One thing that is interesting about Kaldar is according to Simu's data tend to be overwhelmingly combat oriented. You look at all those professions and they are positions of importance and/or responsibility.

2) What makes a Kaldar different than a Gorbesh?

Kaldar value the individual and individual achievement. A Kaldar is more likely to embrace a passivist male empath who is from a war heavy family and encourage him in his path. A Gorbesh is more likely to push him to be like the rest of his family for the sake of the nation and possible embarrassment for the family. I believe that the Kaldar helped Gnomes gain more independence this way (a Kaldar would help his Gnome friend who wants to become a Paladin even though he may not be allowed to in the Gorbesh empire).

The Kaldar movement was because of the fear that their more fickle Gods would no longer favor them and they would die like the Luethra. Oddly enough, I think these harsh Gods helped the Thirteen spread among certain groups of Kaldar and Gnome. The plethora of Gods and different aspects (which embrace the individual) were more attractive.

The individual glory of Xin'Alaudas and Lanival appeal to the Kaldar and ideally hope to gain a bit of such greatness. I think some Gorbesh may consider it blasphemes to think someone could achieve the greatness of God Emperor Xin'Alaudas.

Risty believes in an odd intermingling of both religions. She worships Chadatru, Everild, and Orisas. She hopes to enter the Kaneija (snow globe) when she dies. Her beliefs in both religions make her certainly unusual among Gorbesh and possiblily Kaldar still in Albaria.

Gorbesh prefer a more regimented city life with the importance centered on the community. The Kaldar community has some very mixed feelings regarding the Gorbesh as the split between Gorbesh and Kaldar isn't very clean. In the book Remembrance it seems to be friendly, but this also seems to predate the popularity of the Thirteen. On Trimbolt's card it mentions Gorbesh demolished Gnome and Kaldar lands, yet we don't see this mentioned anywhere else, and if it was on a systematic scale it doesn't make sense to me for there to be an Albarian Imports shop at various fests.

I think Kaldar have the specter of the Luethra over them. They thank Xin'Alaudas, yet have lingering feelings of wondering if he went too far or were the Luethra destined to be destroyed. Returning to nature was to try to prevent that happening to them. Gorbesh have no problem sleeping in cities that weren’t built by them. I think Kaldar feel their position in life is more precarious, they helped kill a civilization, could potentially do it again, or die the same way. I think Gorbesh believe their Gods are stronger and as long as they continue worshiping them and maintaining their way of life is enough. Some may fear that those worshiping the Thirteen could hurt their position with the Gods.

I've seen good comparisons between Gorbesh and Kaldar as Roman Empire vs. Viking/Celts or China vs. Taiwan. Another comparison could be The Soviet Union vs. Russia. Kaldar believe the Gorbesh (or Soviet) way of life is a dead end and choose to go to a life style based more on Xin'Alaudas (in this case it would be like going back to more of a Russian Empire model which modern Russia has sometimes been accused of). Kaldar acknowledge their Gorbesh heritage, take credit for the empire's past achievements, are more likely to be more critical of the empire's recent past actions, and want little to do with the current empire.

Another analogy could be Korea. What does it mean to be South Korean or North Korean? They have mythology, language, and past, but have an ideological split. Pre Kaldar revolution (Old Gorbesh) is Korean, current Kaldar are South Korean, and Gorbesh are North Korean. The difference is that North Korea in this case caries the name Korea and the traditions of the past, and South Korea is made mostly of refugees.

That's really the best I have at the moment. I'm also a noob. This is just what I've been able to pick up in two months. I know the players of Hanryu and Maulem have a lot of information and worked with past GMs. So if my impressions are different then theirs I'd go with theirs. I look forward to meetings.

Thanks for the reply and enjoy your trip!

I found 2 logs, but I swear there was a third meeting I attended. I would suggest that if anyone else that was there has logs, send em as well.

I also sent you logs of 3 of the IC Kaldar meetings Belladzia organized. These were very nice for community building and required 0 coding effort so they had a great return on on investment.

P.S. Please, no more silk and enough with the silver fists.
~Hunter Hanryu

>>I can take another pass through the staff documentation, but aside from some posts in this forums and other public documentation what I have as far as old staff notes could be contained in a fortune cookie.

:(

Also, around September of last year Belladzia started a title contest for Kaldar. I spent rather a long time coming up with some and it would be great if those notes could be found. I'm happy to post/email my ideas but I'm sure there were lots of other entries from others.

Just as an aside, Belladzia wanted to translate these titles into Gorbesh, which is not really something I support. Perhaps one or two Gorbesh titles might be nice, but in general I think titles work best when they are in the language everyone can understand.

I see the Kaldar view on life much like the Qunari of Dragon Age -- pragmatic, frowning on "soft" human society, uninterested in idle chatter, and appreciative of the strength in work, craftsmanship, and battle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RwBuxRVJHs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfrMr42UFTk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqjmhZYn3kI

I see them branching away from the Qunari in the same way that they are different from the Gorbesh -- they focus more on individualism than establishing a tiered society with them in control.

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>
You're not used to life as a fish, are you?