From start, most everyone had already concluded the Necromancy guild was to be evil. How evil, or not quite as evil as, for my RP dollar, is a seperate issue. Evil is evil, dont matter how little it is. What I have been hoping to spark within anyone, is there reason why I shouldnt consider their Necro RP as evil.

I understand why folks (myself included as an extra character) would want to become unto that guild. Its very loreing. Most everyone wants to explore that side and see how far it can go. Prehaps it would be easier to answer my question if I reversed polarity somewhat as such.."My goals of being a necroguild member are this...." or, "Necromungers are evil because......."

We can debate the evil parallels between the real world and our Elanthian world (numerous in count)at length (and in another folder Im sure) until the end of time, and even then, the matter would not likely resolve. Here in the RP folder, I remain looking, and almost begging, for anyone to give me reason on why I should not consider and belive that even the very newest of necromongers (again, the guild members is who Im pointing this question at) should not be considered evil.

On the flip side, if this cannot be answered, would it not be a failing of those within said guild to RP evilly?


""A reflection on a pool of water does not reveal its depth."
Do, or do not, there is no try." -Yoda

The "I" is someone who is a non-necro, and non-clerical. If my question upsets you so, then prehaps it doesn't pertain to you so much. I, by no means, am handi-capped in my abilities to research for answers using a vast array of media. What I am hoping to do here though, is to get a first hand answer by someone who plays the role.


""A reflection on a pool of water does not reveal its depth."
Do, or do not, there is no try." -Yoda

DUFFB you just don't know who IDONS-BUDDY is.

Her manner of writing is very matter-of-factly, and can come off as hostile sometimes. Sometimes it is, most the times it isn't.

No offense to either party.

_______________________

I want to confess all my sins. But my heart is empty. That emptiness is a Mirror and when I stare into it I only see my reflection and feel insolence and rage.
-The Seventh Seal

>> Her manner of writing is very matter-of-factly, and can come off as hostile sometimes. Sometimes it is, most the times it isn't.

this is fair imo

I guess I just don't understand what kind of answer is being sought here. I DO play a Necromancer so I'm not just posting as random joe moonmage. Are you looking for individual backstories? Something to make the whole experience more personal? Or are you looking for reasons that haven't already been hashed and rehashed on the boards?

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Rev. Reene

Xalahai says to you, "Don't you know me? I'm Jhipicalain, the awesomest warrior mage ever."
Xalahai says, "Then I will go hide in my tower where nobody can get to me. Because I am the greatest. Ever."

if you have ever read some of the starwars books, "dark apprentice" series, there is a "scientist" character named Qwi, who develops a weapon called a "suncrusher" <she had been captured, effectively brainwashed as a child and forced to basically develop weapons of mass destruction for the Empire>. She looked upon the whole thing as a scientific exercise, not thinking beyond what the "scientifically possibilities" of such a thing were, although she was carefully "brainwashed" to think that the weapons themselves were only being used on uninhabited worlds, etc, until her eyes were opened to reality by Luke et al. <a la redemption>.

For my character, I base her "world-view" or "gestalt" much on the same type of premise -- enthusiastic acquisition of the "knowledge". Not knowingly "evil". She is somehow hoping that the Great Work would actually come true. Although she is beginning to have some doubts, she is still enthusiastically pursueing her "studies".


For one of my non-necro characters, specifically my traders, necromaners are considered a hazard mainly because at least Lyras's "creations" "interfere with business" - <mainly the critters that inhabit the roads in theren, ilithi and zoluren>. As such, the trader wishes they would all just "go away", although he or she wouldn't be adverse to selling gems, furs, etc for one if it weren't known by that character that they were a necro. Business is business, money comes before everything else, although If he or she saw one casting necromantic spells while running routes or while out hunting, they would certainly think about accusing if they saw such a necro in town - not to get rid of that person, but to put coins in ones pocket. :-) Traders are true evil. Hail Kertigen.

---

Lileyew smiles kindly, "I'm afraid it's too late for you, my friend. Your fate is to be a Necromancer." Lileyew pats you on the back.

To me, it does seem like the Inquisition (and the purging) is counterproductive, but not for any direct effect on innocents. By galvanizing the zealous and alienating Necromancers as heretics, it actually pushes Necromancers to lift the veil of the immortals earlier and open themselves up to demonic influence when their will is weaker. After all, why bother to keep up appearances when there are people publicly hunting you by name?

Galvanizing the zealous punishes the Necromancers who are blending in and not dabbling in blasphemy and heresy, pushing them toward the point of no return. Covering up novice Necromancers and letting them blend in with society seems much more effective at keeping them within the veil. After all, there's something significant to lose by losing your passive camouflage if it's still intact.

My Necromancer didn't lift the veil until he had Spiteful Rebirth for a good while, and it was a conscious decision on my part. There are Necromancers that I'm sure have risked it after only days because of "outings."

---

>
The guard stares at you and swears. The guard says, "I do not see why you even bother living."

But that's the thing -- using Preserve to train Than is about as evil as being a taxidermist. Once you start routinely eating corpses and raising the dead, you start being evil, both personally and cosmically.

Redeemed (and Unsullied, although to a lesser extent) aren't perverse enough to risk demon infiltration as far as I am aware, as they still have the protection of the Immortals. Hence my thought that the best way to accomplish the Temple's goals is to encourage them to actively worship the Immortals and keep quiet, fostering idleness and non-cosmic-evil across the board.

---

>
The guard stares at you and swears. The guard says, "I do not see why you even bother living."

>I don't think you understand the Temple's/Inquisition's goals here. If you kill all the Necromancers, then there aren't any Necromancers anymore, so you don't have any trouble controlling your Necromancer problem.

No, I didn't misunderstand his goals at all -- but until Necromancers are 100% gone, his methods are helping usher in the end of the world by pushing the weak-minded out from the protection of the Immortals. My apologies if my point was unclear.

---

>
The guard stares at you and swears. The guard says, "I do not see why you even bother living."

>No one said it was the best way to deal with the problem or even the most efficient in terms of risk/reward balance.

That's what happens when it's a priest of Aldauth making the call.

---

>
The guard stares at you and swears. The guard says, "I do not see why you even bother living."

>The phrase "guilt by association" is to imply that it is possible to join the Philosophers of the Knife before incurring the stain of evil?

The gods certainly don't mind it until you start eating flesh, raising the dead, and bringing yourself back.

It is quite possible to play a Necro and never incur DO except through circling -- so sandbagging might very well leave you with less stain than, say, ALIGN THAN or using sorcery. Either of these are frowned upon, but aren't enough to cause the gods to deem you irredeemable.

Knowingly hanging out with Book isn't enough to damn someone to the Red Spiral. It is possible to be a guild member without knowing or practicing any spell or ritual that would be considered blasphemous.

It's just not possible for long.

---

>
The guard stares at you and swears. The guard says, "I do not see why you even bother living."

Keep in mind too the only way to train thanatology without gaining DO is through preserve (and that's only because without that Redeemed wouldn't even be slightly playable).

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SEND[Abasha] It warms my heart to see three people die for a cupcake.

>The assumption that every single Necromancer is inherently an irredeemable evil blasphemer who spits in the face of the gods is a bit of an overstatement, given that there are still ones who rub favor orbs, pray fervently, and don't go out of their way to generate DO.

This was a good statement that brought home a point I've been trying to emphasize. My necromancer isn't the god hating type. He's a tragic case that feels he made a mistake but has already gone too deep. He kept getting favors until he no longer could and still goes to the shrine to pray.

It's up to everyone to put their own personal spin and take on this. Don't feel like you have to follow a guidebook. Take the lore and weave it into your own story without contradicting things. Nothing says you have to be the mustache twirling deep laughing villain with oiled hair.

I don't think Dr. Frankenstein was all that bad a guy. If you read the story of Dracula, he had tragic elements to his character that made you sympathize. Hannibal Lector from Silence of the Lambs, Gerald Tarrant from the Coldfire Trilogy, Lord Soth from DragonLance are some examples (some good, some bad) of undeniably evil beings who had qualities that were at times "good" and even heroic.

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"You seek for knowledge and wisdom, as I once did; and I ardently hope that the gratification of your wishes may not be a serpent to sting you, as mine has been." -Mary Shelley's Frankenstein

<<his methods are helping usher in the end of the world by pushing the weak-minded out from the protection of the Immortals>>
exactly. never send a tog to something that would require actual intelligence.

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Lileyew smiles kindly, "I'm afraid it's too late for you, my friend. Your fate is to be a Necromancer." Lileyew pats you on the back.

heck, even darth vader got redeemed at the end.

---

Lileyew smiles kindly, "I'm afraid it's too late for you, my friend. Your fate is to be a Necromancer." Lileyew pats you on the back.

It already happened, we're just reliving it through a fleeting hallucination of existence in the fractured and half-dead mind of Kerenhappuch, floating through a bleak cosmos with the corpses of the rest of the immortals littered about the sky. There are no consequences to anything we do.

::hums::

>> Feed the poor? No, EAT THE POOR.

best line in the whole thread imo

---

Rev. Reene

Xalahai says to you, "Don't you know me? I'm Jhipicalain, the awesomest warrior mage ever."
Xalahai says, "Then I will go hide in my tower where nobody can get to me. Because I am the greatest. Ever."

i really don't think so. You have to keep in mind that this is from the philosopher perspective, but . "The Redeemed are Necromancers who lost the stomach for the Great Work or whatever they occupied their time with originally. The sought and gained the grace of the Immortals, so they can have the privilege of walking the Starry Road. The Redeemed have a patron on Elanthia who they simply call the Old Man. Can't say I've ever seen him."

Although Book says a little different ... ZB shakes his head. "Pitiable creatures that were given ample warning, but still for one reason or another come to regret the actions they have taken and seek to rectify them." Looking thoughtful, Z continues "those who call themselves "redeemed" will escape neither the wrath of the gods nor will they be taken back into society, and they have missed the point of what we do entirely."

I have also asked Markat about the old man.

"Markat says, Hrmph. Never met him, doubt I'd like to. The stories surrounding him stink of manipulation, even more so because those ever-so friendly "redeemed" are usually the ones telling them. Nobody is going to do you charity, let alone some seemingly omnipotent, kind stranger. Whatever his game is, it isn't going to be for your benefit."

the following particular gentleman also gives you valuable information about the soul:
Brother Tynick wrings his hands.
"Now, at some point, a soul will slip past the point of mortal help, and back into the care of the gods."
He ponders, chewing on the end of a long stalk of grass.
"When this happens, a person "walks".
Now, at that point, a few things can happen. First, the soul is released to Urrem'tier,
and goes to the Void, where it's wiped clean of identity."
>
Brother Tynick continues his lecture.
"In other cases, the soul is sent to what is known as the Red Spiral,
which is basically a crucible of the gods. The tainted soul's sins are burned away in a dark scourge.
This is basically the fate for evil people,
those who are unrepentant and for the truly deranged or otherwise damaged."

>
Leaning lightly against a tree, Brother Tynick continues speaking.
"In either case, the soul is completely cleansed and then sent to be one with the gods.
Now, there are exceptions.
For example, the Prydaen deities seem to do something entirely different;
at least, their souls don't go through the Starry Road.
They do something that lets them remember past lives, or at least a portion of them."
>
Brother Tynick grins.
"Of course, we can't really confirm for certain what goes on in the afterlife, since well,
if you experience it first hand, you're dead and can't come back."
He pauses.
"But there have been enough divine revelations from the gods to show us a general sense of what's going on."
>
Brother Tynick nods slightly.
"Now, there are some other exceptions.
A select few win over the true favor of the gods, and are turned into immortal spirits.
These become the spirit helpers of the immortals, with their individual identity intact."
His face falls a little. "And then there are the undead...
the souls that aren't willing to let go of this life and remain here even though their body is long gone."
>
Brother Tynick suddenly frowns a little. "I'm sorry...
I've probably gotten a little carried away here. If you take care of yourself and keep faith,
then you won't have to worry about the true afterlife for quite some time."
Brother Tynick sits back a bit, apparently finished with his lecture.


This is currently all the information we have to go on until such time as the redeemed quest goes "live".

---

Lileyew smiles kindly, "I'm afraid it's too late for you, my friend. Your fate is to be a Necromancer." Lileyew pats you on the back.

The Redeemed suffer Troll's Remorse and can't shake it.

i have a question been thinking of rolling up a necromancer but not sure how to go about it. being its so hush hush dont know who to ask. could someone lead me in the right direction please and thanks.

consider very,very carefully before you make your choice.

make preparations beforehand. <acquire some skills as a commoner, know the lay of the land, get some cambrinth <non-tuned> and otherwise equip yourself beforehand, <you can get a belt knife in shard before you join up> have money in the bank in case of future accusations, etc. Don't lock yourself into 1 type of "equipment", whether you'll be assigned life, elemental, or lunar mana as your "fake" prep is totally random.

Once you're in, don't hang out in town, don't hang out with those who use the same "type" of <fake> mana, etc.

Don't hang out with empaths, clerics or Moonmages.

Good luck on your pursuit of the Great work.

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You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath