Beyond the initial "hey, you're crazy now!" messaging, there's very little that keeps hammering in the fact that necros are forever damaged goods. Not that I want continual atmos triggering to remind me, but I feel like there's a notable lack of Cthulhuean horror.

IMO, and once again not to shoot myself in the foot, I feel like for a guild based on insanity, every character is completely in control of their facilities except when the player decides for that to not be the case. I feel like it would help stress the guild's entire thematic backing when it comes to arcane attunement causing insanity if there was more stuff stressing the point that didn't come directly from the player in charge.

Just as some examples, I think the abandoned building outside crossing's west gate is amazing when it comes to the game itself pushing insanity upon your character. The way the Moon Mage spell Tenebrous Sense occasionally pulses a message to you is another nice example of players being the opportunity to respond to their characters experiencing something they have little control over, as opposed to players building all that stuff up themselves.

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When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/

> Necromancers are all mass murders

Like Tev pointed out, pretty much any character that hunts is a mass murderer. Necros just study the corpses after. My "good" necro actually avoids hunting humanoids for that reason. I hope that when necros can choose to be a Lich, Redeemed, or Philosopher, that Liches are absolute evil and the other two are more gray area.

>>The process of becoming a necromancer fundamentally breaks you.

>It would be nice to see this bubble up more often time to time.

Maybe it's just because I'm S'kra or observational bias or because I'm higher circle, but I swear I get a 10 second roundtime from my tail being pulled quite often, and other random "you're going crazy" messages too.

>>That's an area-based thing S'kra get, not a guild-based thing.

And one more reason I'm trying to milk as much as I can from Zombies in Boar clan before being exiled to the islands. That's really just a sucky mechanic.

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TG, TG, GL, et al.

"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh

>perform entry

A giant tentacle arm suddenly burst through your chest , bringing you to near death . You suspect your current vessel can't withstand the Hunger using it to break into this plane. The arm waves while you hear, "Better luck next time".

>>I am not a fan of Necros all being forced to be off the wall insane.

All Necros being insane does not immediately mean all are off the wall. Maybe one is just your garden variety psychopath, doing whatever he needs to do to prosper, holding no regrets or remorse unless (until) caught, then putting on a show with crocodile tears while spouting apologies and promising redemption.

And others might keep their toenail clippings in a box, and talk to spots of light on the wall. You never can tell...

Killing you softly with his song,
- Stormsinger Shavay

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"We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of dreams"
- Arthur O'Shaughnessy

<<but I swear I get a 10 second roundtime from my tail being pulled quite often>>

that's a mechanic that only happens on M'riss or Mer'kresh. See the library on the island for the lore behind it. <short story, s'kra consider the island to be haunted for good reason. The RT is annoying>


Necros seeing "cracks between reality" -

this was more evident during the Lyras invasion, as periodically you would get messages having to do with the hunger, and it calling to you.

Aside from the attunement thing, you also have certain things that happen during the "forsaken" event in which the things that the gods proportately "protected" you from - you see them, but they also see you. Perhaps this sort of thing could be expanded upon.

Anyone going off-the-wall insane during attunement was stated to be disgarded and used for parts. The basic unstated intent is manufacturing a functional sociopath. Keyword being functional.

This doesn't mean that they're "altogether" sane. You have your Hannibals, that collect harvested body parts in their vaults as part of their striving to make the "great work". But they can still walk and chew gum at the same time.

On the other hand, you have adventurers of all stripes <guilds> that kill humanoids without batting an eye.

An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>

... or every 10 circles you have to walk into the Crossing cleric's guild and insult someone's mother. With all your Trans buffs up. = p

<<I keep hoping that eventual quest development would help hammer this in, especially for stuff like Risen, Redeemed, Lichdom, etc. We've just been without anything beyond the initiation for the past 3 years, and that's what we really need. Maybe, every few circles, a quest could be demanded of each character to continue circling. Something akin to the initial tuning, or maybe showing progress with the Great Work. Perhaps even performing the attuning on 'new initiates'....

So you're suggesting a quest to circle for no reason other than to gain lore? I don't know how that would fly for modt players, but I think it's kinda cool.

To play Devil Advocate, do you think this lore information might just be better served by producing a book? Some might say, let the people who want the lore go find it, while the people who just want to circle, pick up a magic spell, and move on can do so. I ask because I've hear complaints about some quests that prevent you form circling before.

Mostly I'm asking. How important do you fell is it to include the ideologies of being a necromancer while playing. Do you want a forced set of feedback, which might pigeonhole you somehow. Or do you prefer a system that allows you more customization, at the loss of imersion?

Nikpack

basically, I'd like to see both.

more in-game lore -quests are good, as long as its not an extremely hard syntax puzzle <G>. And an in-guild library where we could read in the guild would be great. 2 or 3 years ago there were issues that came up that GM-Abasha responded to by saying - "well, that will be cleared up once you guys have an in-guild library". Which is great, but... we're still waiting for that response....

<blames 3.0>




An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>

Since i saw a bit of you speaking of quests, I seen that Universal Solvent in 3.0 seems to be posted as a scroll spell, I was hoping that maybe this could be changed and it could be a spell that required a quest to receive. Other than that I didn't really put to much thought into it, but maybe it could be located somewhere in or around the new perverse guild hall that will be located somewhere in p4. I just don't like the idea of the spell coming from a scroll.

I could be mistaken and the information on sebeni could be wrong, any thoughts?

> I seen that Universal Solvent in 3.0 seems to be posted as a scroll spell,

It is?? That's kinda messed up. Any of our spells being on scrolls is not good imo, but yeah I agree that usol in particular shouldn't be a scroll spell.

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Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."

>The more ways for people to get falsely accused of Necromancy, the better. Also, I wouldnt be surprised if using Arcane spells tainted the user in some detectable way.

Has any GM actually said that's the case? Bc it seems that the worst that would happen unless they're casting a DO spell is that they'll get a forbidden practices warrant. If people are given access to our lolhardmode guild spells, there should be severe consequences imo. But as it is, clerics can steal and cast our spells and it's meh, lose devotion, nbd. Blows my mind a bit.

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Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."

You're talking about an inconvenience, and yeah, there should be a huge inconvenience for clerics using necro spells, so great. But I'm talking about the logical mind!%#$ of a cleric casting a necro spell without the gods getting seriously pissed off about it. Given how extremely OP cleric abilities are against us, and that generally everything they are is the anti-us, it really doesn't seem appropriate that the worst thing that happens when they use our abilities is an inconvenience.

You could argue that losing devotion is the gods getting pissed off, but that's pretty minor compared to what we deal with. A cleric casting a necro spell should be like an empath attacking someone, only imo it's a much bigger deal. There should be dire consequences.

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Markat says, "Pleasant people without moral faults, going to church every week and abstaining from sins such as vanity and zombies. Feh...."

>A cleric casting a necro spell should be like an empath attacking someone, only imo it's a much bigger deal. There should be dire consequences.

Agreed . As counter-intuitive as a Cleric casting Necromancer spells is , there should be Kigot like consequences .

>But I'm talking about the logical mind!%#$ of a cleric casting a necro spell without the gods getting seriously pissed off about it.

Spell patterns are, to some extent, spell patterns. Now, the big nasty ones are, I agree, candidates for something bigger and nastier to happen to a cleric, because he should probably know better.

>Given how extremely OP cleric abilities are against us

You know, I've never actually seen a Necro get HE'd, and that's about all I could imagine cleric stuff being 'OP' vs. Necros would entail (turning on the 'is it cursed/evil' check for extra damage from holy mana). I didn't think it was even actually turned on. Is it? Cause that's news to me. Or could you explain to me how cleric spells are OP vs. necros? Cause I never PvP.

> it really doesn't seem appropriate that the worst thing that happens when they use our abilities is an inconvenience.

Again, it depends on how much devotion the cleric is losing. If they lose all of it, 0 devotion state locks them out of 90% of their spells, and they have to get back to half or better (I suspect it's higher than half) status in the pool to use any supernatural abilities. And refilling this pool to the top is a process that could take days, if you're in a good location to do it and are willing to do nothing but that. I think you're really underestimating how nasty a tanked devotion can be.

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Adding nothing to the conversation since 1834.

you really get stuck with bad mojo if you cast it as a cleric, I tried it in test with gm-supplied Ivory mask devices. all devotion, and stuff. Although no, it didn't burn my arms off. <although that should, imho, be a consequence if either a paladin or a cleric try to cast a necro spell - after all, the reverse is true. If i even tried to drink aome free booze from Gg, I got my arms blown off as a necro!

However, there's other guilds out there that can use magic as well. I'm not sure what the consequences would be for a WM or MM to cast Necro spells <not in town of course>. I know MMs get some bad mojo when they try to predict on thanatology, to me, casting an actual necromantic spell would be far more severe. The only necromantic spell scroll I've found so far has been K-S. I'm still on the lookout though!


Oddly enough, I seem to find spell scrolls with my barbarian far more than any other of my characters. JUst like I manage to find more boxes with paladins or others that don't train locksmithing as much. :-)



An arisen dummy zombie bellows, "You will all be ssslaughtered!"
>

>>The MM alignment to Thanatology is an issue because thanatology requires a fundamental schism from reality that non-necros cannot comprehend. It's not 'necro stuff bad for MM' any more than any other non cleric guild.

The gist here is correct. Moon Mages have fiddled with necromancy for decades without any dramatic problems. There's something specific to the thanatological link that causes Moon Mages to wig out.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>>And any non-cleric guild casting necro magic just gets SC, as far as I know. There's no lore reason they should have anything else happen, and SC is a penalty enough.

You might mean DO/DC here, since SO/SC is a bit situation-based.

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When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/

It's not something that the Moon Mages who practice sorcery come into contact with. The ones who go too far and begin to exercise it... stop being Moon Mages.

With a few noteable exceptions, Thanatology isn't necessary for practicing necromancy-as-a-spell-discipline, in the same sense that there's plenty of Lunar spells that don't require access to the PoP. The deeper mysteries of both have their metaphysical commitments and are deeply incompatible, but nothing stops either side from playing in the shallow end of the pool.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

1) Many necro spells are, for all intents and purposes, just sorcery spells that Philosophers decided to lay claim to. They have no connection to divine outrage, at least for now.

2) Spells that cause Divine Outrage for Necros already cause Divine Corruption for everyone else, which has all the things necros get connected to it, including Social Outrage/Corruption. It would be interesting if non-Necromancers could be at higher risk for an accusal of Forbidden Practices while under the effects of Divine Corruption, though.

3) Spells that cause someone to become Forsaken, mainly CFB and SRE, are most likely (read: definitely) signature spells for the Necromancer guild, which in turn means non-Necromancers can't learn them from a scroll, anyway. So any discussion about what would happen if a Cleric/Paladin/anyone-not-a-Necromancer cast those spells is strictly conceptual, theoretically, and fun-lore-facts.

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When in doubt, http://elanthipedia.org/