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Stolas,
We all know BMR is broken. Despite your frustrations, could you please refrain from using the word barbie? You diminish yourself when you use that term. Honestly, could you put some real effort into not being annoying or complaining about barbarians every time you post? Thanks.
JMF90
ODEC
Re: Barbie talk
06/20/2008 05:57 PM CDT
Hmmmm ... why dont you say something when moonie is used or loonie? I understand you have a problem with being treated the same way you treat people, but I prefer it if all things are equal. Moonie seems to be ok, but barbie is not ... it will even get posts yanked if you use the term, especially on the barbie boards. Have you ever heard of a post on the MM boards being removed because it used the word "moonie"? lol
My problem with barbies is not just BMR. That class gets the best magic, abilities, supernatural whatever you want to call it, especially where it counts ... combat. Are combat equations "fair" to all classes? Barbies are given a distinct advantage of skillset and their magic makes them even better. What does magic do for a MM? It used to make us comparable, as long as we got a jump on our opponent. MMs have always been a very niche oriented class with a severe disadvantage in combat and in the past few years that disadvantage becomes greater and greater.
You can say a lot of things but I would argue that any player who wanted to make a pvp character would not make a MM these days. MMs have gone the way of support for true combat characters. So you will have to understand if I am upset to have the pvp effectiveness of less than an empath. Gone are the days of attacking while in RF, or when Burn was considered over powered and Mental Blast actually scared a well made pvp character. lol These days, magic isnt even the best defense against magic ... but you know it wouldnt be fair to the barbies if every other class in the game got neat bells and whistles in the combat arena. lol If you want a laugh go read the barbie boards and listen to them cry about the new thief khris and how it is so unfair that someone has an ability that might be better than something they have or that another class got something before them.
And I am not complaining that they have all of those things, I would just like to be able to go ... Ok, so that barbie chain stunned me and then killed me, it is ok I have X. Ok, that barbie roared me out of hiding and then killed me, I can use X. Ok, that barbie pressed one button to get the best buff in the game, but I have to use 4 or 5 different spells to be weaker in combat.
But at least my super awesome cosmic magically powerful abilities let me get somewhere a few seconds faster than your travel script.
Pelag ai Aldam Stolas
Galren says, "Oh you know me Stolas"
>
Galren says, "I just love necros"
My problem with barbies is not just BMR. That class gets the best magic, abilities, supernatural whatever you want to call it, especially where it counts ... combat. Are combat equations "fair" to all classes? Barbies are given a distinct advantage of skillset and their magic makes them even better. What does magic do for a MM? It used to make us comparable, as long as we got a jump on our opponent. MMs have always been a very niche oriented class with a severe disadvantage in combat and in the past few years that disadvantage becomes greater and greater.
You can say a lot of things but I would argue that any player who wanted to make a pvp character would not make a MM these days. MMs have gone the way of support for true combat characters. So you will have to understand if I am upset to have the pvp effectiveness of less than an empath. Gone are the days of attacking while in RF, or when Burn was considered over powered and Mental Blast actually scared a well made pvp character. lol These days, magic isnt even the best defense against magic ... but you know it wouldnt be fair to the barbies if every other class in the game got neat bells and whistles in the combat arena. lol If you want a laugh go read the barbie boards and listen to them cry about the new thief khris and how it is so unfair that someone has an ability that might be better than something they have or that another class got something before them.
And I am not complaining that they have all of those things, I would just like to be able to go ... Ok, so that barbie chain stunned me and then killed me, it is ok I have X. Ok, that barbie roared me out of hiding and then killed me, I can use X. Ok, that barbie pressed one button to get the best buff in the game, but I have to use 4 or 5 different spells to be weaker in combat.
But at least my super awesome cosmic magically powerful abilities let me get somewhere a few seconds faster than your travel script.
Pelag ai Aldam Stolas
Galren says, "Oh you know me Stolas"
>
Galren says, "I just love necros"
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Barbie talk
06/20/2008 06:05 PM CDT
>>My problem with barbies is not just BMR. That class gets the best magic, abilities, supernatural whatever you want to call it, especially where it counts ... combat.
If you wanted to be so awesome at combat, with tons of combat boosters and a great combat skillset, maybe you should have joined a combat guild.
>>You can say a lot of things but I would argue that any player who wanted to make a pvp character would not make a MM these days.
Ironically, for being non-combat, Moon Mages are ridiculously powerful.
****
Seeing as a fully spelled-up Cleric is lit up like the bloody Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center, I really don't think anyone want to see more realistic stealth penalties applied to every spell that gives off some kind of light.
-IDONS-BUDDY
If you wanted to be so awesome at combat, with tons of combat boosters and a great combat skillset, maybe you should have joined a combat guild.
>>You can say a lot of things but I would argue that any player who wanted to make a pvp character would not make a MM these days.
Ironically, for being non-combat, Moon Mages are ridiculously powerful.
****
Seeing as a fully spelled-up Cleric is lit up like the bloody Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center, I really don't think anyone want to see more realistic stealth penalties applied to every spell that gives off some kind of light.
-IDONS-BUDDY
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Barbie talk
06/20/2008 06:06 PM CDT
>>Ironically, for being non-combat, Moon Mages are ridiculously powerful.
Addition: when trained correctly.
****
Seeing as a fully spelled-up Cleric is lit up like the bloody Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center, I really don't think anyone want to see more realistic stealth penalties applied to every spell that gives off some kind of light.
-IDONS-BUDDY
Addition: when trained correctly.
****
Seeing as a fully spelled-up Cleric is lit up like the bloody Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center, I really don't think anyone want to see more realistic stealth penalties applied to every spell that gives off some kind of light.
-IDONS-BUDDY
CHEESESTRING
Re: Barbie talk
06/20/2008 06:08 PM CDT
>>
And I am not complaining that they have all of those things, I would just like to be able to go ... Ok, so that barbie chain stunned me and then killed me, it is ok I have X. Ok, that barbie roared me out of hiding and then killed me, I can use X. Ok, that barbie pressed one button to get the best buff in the game, but I have to use 4 or 5 different spells to be weaker in combat.
Yeah, that's the problem with being a non-combat guild in an RP game. You're weaker in combat. What's the problem here again?
And if you try to tell me that because you get offensive spells that makes you a combat guild...yeah, ok there sunshine. Your guild requirements are Magic, Lore, Survival. Barbarians guild requirements are Weapons, Armor, Survival. See a difference?
You want to be the best at combat? Join a combat guild, IMO. You want to be a utility mage? Join the Moon Mage guild.
~Zaktraw
PS I enjoy playing a MM.
And I am not complaining that they have all of those things, I would just like to be able to go ... Ok, so that barbie chain stunned me and then killed me, it is ok I have X. Ok, that barbie roared me out of hiding and then killed me, I can use X. Ok, that barbie pressed one button to get the best buff in the game, but I have to use 4 or 5 different spells to be weaker in combat.
Yeah, that's the problem with being a non-combat guild in an RP game. You're weaker in combat. What's the problem here again?
And if you try to tell me that because you get offensive spells that makes you a combat guild...yeah, ok there sunshine. Your guild requirements are Magic, Lore, Survival. Barbarians guild requirements are Weapons, Armor, Survival. See a difference?
You want to be the best at combat? Join a combat guild, IMO. You want to be a utility mage? Join the Moon Mage guild.
~Zaktraw
PS I enjoy playing a MM.
SHYGOAT
Re: Barbie talk
06/20/2008 06:12 PM CDT
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Barbie talk
06/20/2008 06:18 PM CDT
You're all wrong.
Moon Mages are a magic guild. Other categorizations, despite the bleating insistence of past generations of GMs, have become obsolete and inaccurate.
And Stolas, your sub-250 evasion is no one's fault but your own. QQ less and l2crossbow if you can't hit them with magic, good lord.
Rev. Reene
"Even if you are a 1,000 year old Necrolord who is so steeped in blasphemy that your words cause the ground to shake and the sky to darken, you do not tick off Kssarh." - Armifer
Moon Mages are a magic guild. Other categorizations, despite the bleating insistence of past generations of GMs, have become obsolete and inaccurate.
And Stolas, your sub-250 evasion is no one's fault but your own. QQ less and l2crossbow if you can't hit them with magic, good lord.
Rev. Reene
"Even if you are a 1,000 year old Necrolord who is so steeped in blasphemy that your words cause the ground to shake and the sky to darken, you do not tick off Kssarh." - Armifer
DIVINEWIND
Re: Barbie talk
06/20/2008 06:24 PM CDT
10/10 on the trolling Stolas.
Listen man, I'm going to keep it really simple. Locate? Riftal Summons? Moon Gates? DFA? Mental blast?
I can't chain stun anyone man. How many times did you mental blast me in our last spar where I couldn't move for a good 45 seconds.
Your only weakness is Barbarians. Any other guild crumbles at mental blast. A prepared WM might put up a decent fight but AC doesn't protect against mental blast.
Moon Mages are build for PvP if and only if you train defenses seriously. 300 evasion at 100th doesn't cut it against any guild. You guys are survival secondary. It's not -that- hard.
I even taught you and a few other moon mages how to get past my BMR. I don't understand the extreme dislike of Barbarians. You know what my weakness is? Thieves.
- Galren
>>The Rippentropps are a mysterious collective of well-known individuals whose primary charge is to initiate the advancing task of not stopping.
Listen man, I'm going to keep it really simple. Locate? Riftal Summons? Moon Gates? DFA? Mental blast?
I can't chain stun anyone man. How many times did you mental blast me in our last spar where I couldn't move for a good 45 seconds.
Your only weakness is Barbarians. Any other guild crumbles at mental blast. A prepared WM might put up a decent fight but AC doesn't protect against mental blast.
Moon Mages are build for PvP if and only if you train defenses seriously. 300 evasion at 100th doesn't cut it against any guild. You guys are survival secondary. It's not -that- hard.
I even taught you and a few other moon mages how to get past my BMR. I don't understand the extreme dislike of Barbarians. You know what my weakness is? Thieves.
- Galren
>>The Rippentropps are a mysterious collective of well-known individuals whose primary charge is to initiate the advancing task of not stopping.
DR-ARMIFER
Re: Barbie talk
06/20/2008 06:30 PM CDT
Moon Mages are a magic guild. They do magic. They do it really well. While combat magic is not my focus as the architect of your misery, sometimes lunar magic involves teleporting your enemy's spleen into the next province over.
Nothing stops a competent Moon Mage who wishes to invest the time in the appropriate skills from using CoL and Seers to deflect your blow, using an anime-sized moonblade to take your legs off, and then smashing you in the face with an orb of frigid starlight. It simply means the Moon Mage needs to chase more than circles to make adequate use of these tools.
-Armifer
"It is no longer possible to escape men. Farewell to the monsters, farewell to the saints. Farewell to pride. All that is left is men."
- Jean-Paul Sartre
Nothing stops a competent Moon Mage who wishes to invest the time in the appropriate skills from using CoL and Seers to deflect your blow, using an anime-sized moonblade to take your legs off, and then smashing you in the face with an orb of frigid starlight. It simply means the Moon Mage needs to chase more than circles to make adequate use of these tools.
-Armifer
"It is no longer possible to escape men. Farewell to the monsters, farewell to the saints. Farewell to pride. All that is left is men."
- Jean-Paul Sartre
GRANGERSITE
Re: Barbie talk
06/20/2008 06:39 PM CDT
"If you wanted to be so awesome at combat, with tons of combat boosters and a great combat skillset, maybe you should have joined a combat guild."
Of course, joining a guild is a moving target since at certain points in time, one or another has a net advantage over the rest. 10 or 12 years ago the moon mage guild was the guild to be in if you wanted to dominate PvP. 10 years from now it may be the Trader guild (by then they will be rich enough to buy GMs as bodiguards).
"You can say a lot of things but I would argue that any player who wanted to make a pvp character would not make a MM these days."
Well, that depends how you want to PvP. In tournaments, sure non-MMs have an edge. On the other hand, in no holds barred, ruthless, kill without warning or provocation, a MM with decent weapons skills is an excellant assasin or first strike weapon: hit (with magic and mundane skills) and run (magically to locations no travel script can get to), hide in remote safe spots, then hit again without warning. The frustration alone will kill most barbs if you keep it up long enough. That is why in the other folder I made the comment about what kind of "evil" someone was roleplaying made a difference in which guild to join.
"Ironically, for being non-combat, Moon Mages are ridiculously powerful."
I would have thought by now it was clear, Moon Mages are not usually non-combat. We are instead combat tertiary, magic primary.
The other thing to keep in mind tho, is that apart from artificial tournament rules for PvP, PvP in everyday events is not balanced combat between folks of the same or near same skill level or circle. It is you vs. her, regardless of skill/circle. Combat ability is more determination, cunning, planning, determination, scripts, and fast buttons. There will always be an opponent of greater and lessor combat ability than you. I remember, for example, a young Ragran.
In the end, no one is invincible, it may just take more work to do them in.
Of course, joining a guild is a moving target since at certain points in time, one or another has a net advantage over the rest. 10 or 12 years ago the moon mage guild was the guild to be in if you wanted to dominate PvP. 10 years from now it may be the Trader guild (by then they will be rich enough to buy GMs as bodiguards).
"You can say a lot of things but I would argue that any player who wanted to make a pvp character would not make a MM these days."
Well, that depends how you want to PvP. In tournaments, sure non-MMs have an edge. On the other hand, in no holds barred, ruthless, kill without warning or provocation, a MM with decent weapons skills is an excellant assasin or first strike weapon: hit (with magic and mundane skills) and run (magically to locations no travel script can get to), hide in remote safe spots, then hit again without warning. The frustration alone will kill most barbs if you keep it up long enough. That is why in the other folder I made the comment about what kind of "evil" someone was roleplaying made a difference in which guild to join.
"Ironically, for being non-combat, Moon Mages are ridiculously powerful."
I would have thought by now it was clear, Moon Mages are not usually non-combat. We are instead combat tertiary, magic primary.
The other thing to keep in mind tho, is that apart from artificial tournament rules for PvP, PvP in everyday events is not balanced combat between folks of the same or near same skill level or circle. It is you vs. her, regardless of skill/circle. Combat ability is more determination, cunning, planning, determination, scripts, and fast buttons. There will always be an opponent of greater and lessor combat ability than you. I remember, for example, a young Ragran.
In the end, no one is invincible, it may just take more work to do them in.
INSOLENTWRAITH
Re: Barbie talk
06/20/2008 07:23 PM CDT
<<"You can say a lot of things but I would argue that any player who wanted to make a pvp character would not make a MM these days.">>
Heh.
You say that from your experience PvPing as characters from other guilds I'm sure?
<<It simply means the Moon Mage needs to chase more than circles to make adequate use of these tools.>>
This.
I remember the days of war mages screaming and crying about rangers too, before a couple smart war mages took advantage of their tools and trained shield.
Bottom line, you don't get to train poorly, as any guild, and PvP at level well.
Heh.
You say that from your experience PvPing as characters from other guilds I'm sure?
<<It simply means the Moon Mage needs to chase more than circles to make adequate use of these tools.>>
This.
I remember the days of war mages screaming and crying about rangers too, before a couple smart war mages took advantage of their tools and trained shield.
Bottom line, you don't get to train poorly, as any guild, and PvP at level well.
DEVAN
Re: Barbie talk
06/21/2008 12:17 AM CDT
The reason "loonie" is acceptable while "barbie" is not is because "loonie" is a word vaguely in agreement with the Moon Mage ethos, while "barbie" suggests the exact opposite of the Barbarian ethos.
And plenty of people object to both "moonie" and "loonie".
---
"Close your eyes -
For your eyes will only tell the truth..
And the truth isn't what you want to see.
In the dark, it is easy to pretend
That the truth is what it ought to be." - Erik Claudin
And plenty of people object to both "moonie" and "loonie".
---
"Close your eyes -
For your eyes will only tell the truth..
And the truth isn't what you want to see.
In the dark, it is easy to pretend
That the truth is what it ought to be." - Erik Claudin
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Barbie talk
06/21/2008 02:10 AM CDT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonies
Personally, I think it's hilarious.
Rev. Reene
"Even if you are a 1,000 year old Necrolord who is so steeped in blasphemy that your words cause the ground to shake and the sky to darken, you do not tick off Kssarh." - Armifer
Personally, I think it's hilarious.
Rev. Reene
"Even if you are a 1,000 year old Necrolord who is so steeped in blasphemy that your words cause the ground to shake and the sky to darken, you do not tick off Kssarh." - Armifer
FERDONC
Re: Barbie talk
06/21/2008 05:08 AM CDT
MMs actually have a better combat skillset than all but barbarians, rangers, and thieves: tm(weapon) primary, evasion, hiding, and perception secondary. WMs just make up for it with tert buffs, which by diminishedangel's arguements are just as unreasonable as offensive magic for a MM or crafting expertise for a barbarian.
THIS IS A FUN GAME
-Strk
THIS IS A FUN GAME
-Strk
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Barbie talk
06/21/2008 05:59 AM CDT
>>WMs just make up for it with tert buffs, which by diminishedangel's arguements are just as unreasonable as offensive magic for a MM or crafting expertise for a barbarian.
Huh?
I'm not sure what MM offensive magic or Barbarian crafting has anything to do with anything I said.
****
Seeing as a fully spelled-up Cleric is lit up like the bloody Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center, I really don't think anyone want to see more realistic stealth penalties applied to every spell that gives off some kind of light.
-IDONS-BUDDY
Huh?
I'm not sure what MM offensive magic or Barbarian crafting has anything to do with anything I said.
****
Seeing as a fully spelled-up Cleric is lit up like the bloody Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center, I really don't think anyone want to see more realistic stealth penalties applied to every spell that gives off some kind of light.
-IDONS-BUDDY
GODBANE
Re: Barbie talk
06/21/2008 07:36 AM CDT
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moonies
>>Personally, I think it's hilarious.
Shocked, shocked that I never looked this up before! Oh man, the External Links are great.
"An essay on the use of the term 'Moonie' by a Unificationist"
"News stories from the early 1990s liberally using the 'M-word'"
"Page from anti-Unification site asserting that the term 'Moonie' was once acceptable to Unificationists including a photograph near the bottom of the page showing a coffee mug bearing the slogan 'I'm a Moonie and I [heart symbol] it!'"
>>Personally, I think it's hilarious.
Shocked, shocked that I never looked this up before! Oh man, the External Links are great.
"An essay on the use of the term 'Moonie' by a Unificationist"
"News stories from the early 1990s liberally using the 'M-word'"
"Page from anti-Unification site asserting that the term 'Moonie' was once acceptable to Unificationists including a photograph near the bottom of the page showing a coffee mug bearing the slogan 'I'm a Moonie and I [heart symbol] it!'"
PIRATEKING
TYCH
Re: Barbie talk
06/21/2008 11:24 AM CDT
As a Barb I don't care what I am called. I've been called a lot worse then barbie.
Drevid
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html
Cylons... why debugging matters.
Drevid
http://www.phiiskeep.homestead.com/Barbarian.html
Cylons... why debugging matters.
FERDONC
Re: Barbie talk
06/21/2008 12:04 PM CDT
You defined combat guild and thus what people should be good at based on skill set placements. This would indicate that barbs would be bad at crafting and WMs would be the biggest glass cannons in the game.
-Strk
-Strk
JMF90
Re: Barbie talk
06/21/2008 02:30 PM CDT
>In the end, no one is invincible, it may just take more work to do them in.
In fairness, 150th barbarians are immune to moon mages. Hopefully that'll get fixed. But the barbie talk is still annoying.
In fairness, 150th barbarians are immune to moon mages. Hopefully that'll get fixed. But the barbie talk is still annoying.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Barbie talk
06/22/2008 12:11 AM CDT
>>Barbs would be bad at crafting
They will be very soon, and...
>>WMs would be the biggest glass cannons in the game.
They are. They might not be the most glassy, but they are certainly the biggest cannons made of glass.
Fixed combat buffs can only carry tertiary survival and armor so far.
****
Seeing as a fully spelled-up Cleric is lit up like the bloody Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center, I really don't think anyone want to see more realistic stealth penalties applied to every spell that gives off some kind of light.
-IDONS-BUDDY
They will be very soon, and...
>>WMs would be the biggest glass cannons in the game.
They are. They might not be the most glassy, but they are certainly the biggest cannons made of glass.
Fixed combat buffs can only carry tertiary survival and armor so far.
****
Seeing as a fully spelled-up Cleric is lit up like the bloody Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center, I really don't think anyone want to see more realistic stealth penalties applied to every spell that gives off some kind of light.
-IDONS-BUDDY
GRANGERSITE
Re: Barbie talk
06/22/2008 08:43 AM CDT
"In fairness, 150th barbarians are immune to moon mages. Hopefully that'll get fixed. But the barbie talk is still annoying. "
They may be immune to lunar magic, but not to moon mages. A while back I killed a barb of twice my circles (yeah, it was a quite a while back) using lunar magic to protect myself, elemental magic to stun him, and mundane weapons to finish the job. I recently retested that approach between younger barbs and moon mages (since I have found no 150 cir barb willing to be experimented upon by me and in any event the usual PvP issue is not between a 150th and someone else). It can be done, but it is not always easy.
On the other hand, I agree with your sentiment that it would be better to have 150th circle players "balanced" between themselves. The problem is, of course, that what balances such players vastly overpowers others, and all the critters in the realms.
Wulfcat
They may be immune to lunar magic, but not to moon mages. A while back I killed a barb of twice my circles (yeah, it was a quite a while back) using lunar magic to protect myself, elemental magic to stun him, and mundane weapons to finish the job. I recently retested that approach between younger barbs and moon mages (since I have found no 150 cir barb willing to be experimented upon by me and in any event the usual PvP issue is not between a 150th and someone else). It can be done, but it is not always easy.
On the other hand, I agree with your sentiment that it would be better to have 150th circle players "balanced" between themselves. The problem is, of course, that what balances such players vastly overpowers others, and all the critters in the realms.
Wulfcat
ILBB132002
Re: Barbie talk
06/22/2008 02:45 PM CDT
what kind of elemental magic and what's the difference between elemental and lunar with regards to BMR?
GRANGERSITE
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Barbie talk
06/22/2008 03:41 PM CDT
MR/BMR isn't affected by mana type, nor does any guild have any particular advantage to punching through it to my knowledge.
There are other tools you can indirectly utilize but it being an elemental spell doesn't have anything to do with it.
Rev. Reene
"Even if you are a 1,000 year old Necrolord who is so steeped in blasphemy that your words cause the ground to shake and the sky to darken, you do not tick off Kssarh." - Armifer
There are other tools you can indirectly utilize but it being an elemental spell doesn't have anything to do with it.
Rev. Reene
"Even if you are a 1,000 year old Necrolord who is so steeped in blasphemy that your words cause the ground to shake and the sky to darken, you do not tick off Kssarh." - Armifer
FERDONC
Re: Barbie talk
06/22/2008 04:36 PM CDT
>elemental magic to stun him
this is where your method breaks down at a certain point
-Strk
this is where your method breaks down at a certain point
-Strk
JMF90
Re: Barbie talk
06/22/2008 05:45 PM CDT
>>...magic to stun him
>this is where your method breaks down at a certain point
True.
Also, you can't really expect to train a tertiary weapon up high enough to make it past 2 secondary or better defenses. At low circles it may seem possible, but it just doesn't keep scale.
My best tert skill is at 550ish ranks, but my secondary skills are as high as 800 and primary skills as high as 1250. Dealvo is a WM in TF that spends all his time in combat. His highest skills are magics in the 1500-1700s, and his highest tert skill is like 1000 ranks.
Hitting a barbarian (even stunned, although it is not possible to stun them with magic) that has 800+ evasion and shield just isn't realistic. Plus you have to figure that you'll likely be at a stat disadvantage once buffs are calculated. Sure you can use a CJ but 100 ranks is pretty meaningless by that point.
A BMR rewrite would fix all that. If memory servers, dragon dance multiplies your base BMR by like 6, so that even with capped stats you cannot hope to get past the BMR.
>this is where your method breaks down at a certain point
True.
Also, you can't really expect to train a tertiary weapon up high enough to make it past 2 secondary or better defenses. At low circles it may seem possible, but it just doesn't keep scale.
My best tert skill is at 550ish ranks, but my secondary skills are as high as 800 and primary skills as high as 1250. Dealvo is a WM in TF that spends all his time in combat. His highest skills are magics in the 1500-1700s, and his highest tert skill is like 1000 ranks.
Hitting a barbarian (even stunned, although it is not possible to stun them with magic) that has 800+ evasion and shield just isn't realistic. Plus you have to figure that you'll likely be at a stat disadvantage once buffs are calculated. Sure you can use a CJ but 100 ranks is pretty meaningless by that point.
A BMR rewrite would fix all that. If memory servers, dragon dance multiplies your base BMR by like 6, so that even with capped stats you cannot hope to get past the BMR.
GRANGERSITE
Re: Barbie talk
06/22/2008 06:57 PM CDT
Tell you what, find me a high circle barb in prime that would like to be the subject of an experiment. Maybe your analysis is correct in actual practice. So far, everyone I have asked seems too busy or uninterested.
Wulfcat
Wulfcat
HIGHWOOD
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 10:02 AM CDT
Looking to spar 150th circle barbs? What have you been up to while I've been gone?
Hopeless Ithlia, Bad Moon Mage of Ilithi
Hopeless Ithlia, Bad Moon Mage of Ilithi
CAROLINT
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 12:06 PM CDT
>So you will have to understand if I am upset to have the pvp effectiveness of less than an empath.
Just because an Empath beat you doesn't drop MMs below Empaths on the combat-effectiveness scale, it just means that you're not a very well-trained Moon Mage.
>but you know it wouldnt be fair to the barbies if every other class in the game got neat bells and whistles in the combat arena
Like DFA, Backstab, Sniping, the ability to boost Perception and anything-other-than-a-ranged-weapon at the same time, invisibility, single-target disabling abilities, etc?
>go read the barbie boards and listen to them cry about the new thief khris and how it is so unfair that someone has an ability that might be better than something they have or that another class got something before them.
Perhaps you should read the Barb boards more often. Shadowstep is a khri that actually puts into use an ability that certain berserks + dances are supposed to have. As such people were wondering if Barbs were going to get that ability finally.
>Ok, so that barbie chain stunned me and then killed me
It's pretty much impossible for a Barb to chain stun anything remotely close to at-level. This just shows what part of your anatomy you are talking out of.
________
"I for one welcome our new Lithping Overlordth."
________
Just because an Empath beat you doesn't drop MMs below Empaths on the combat-effectiveness scale, it just means that you're not a very well-trained Moon Mage.
>but you know it wouldnt be fair to the barbies if every other class in the game got neat bells and whistles in the combat arena
Like DFA, Backstab, Sniping, the ability to boost Perception and anything-other-than-a-ranged-weapon at the same time, invisibility, single-target disabling abilities, etc?
>go read the barbie boards and listen to them cry about the new thief khris and how it is so unfair that someone has an ability that might be better than something they have or that another class got something before them.
Perhaps you should read the Barb boards more often. Shadowstep is a khri that actually puts into use an ability that certain berserks + dances are supposed to have. As such people were wondering if Barbs were going to get that ability finally.
>Ok, so that barbie chain stunned me and then killed me
It's pretty much impossible for a Barb to chain stun anything remotely close to at-level. This just shows what part of your anatomy you are talking out of.
________
"I for one welcome our new Lithping Overlordth."
________
GRANGERSITE
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 12:55 PM CDT
"Looking to spar 150th circle barbs? What have you been up to while I've been gone?"
Nothing socially redeeming. Well, not as that phrase would be understood in another realm. On the other hand, DP blood is a somewhat effective rust retardant for a wide range of metal weapons.
Nothing socially redeeming. Well, not as that phrase would be understood in another realm. On the other hand, DP blood is a somewhat effective rust retardant for a wide range of metal weapons.
VROTSOSJ
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 01:41 PM CDT
>>A BMR rewrite would fix all that. If memory servers, dragon dance multiplies your base BMR by like 6, so that even with capped stats you cannot hope to get past the BMR.
And there are still spells that can beat capped BMR as it stands right now.
It's not like anyone in TF has anything in the same range as max BMR.
I am --- Navak
And there are still spells that can beat capped BMR as it stands right now.
It's not like anyone in TF has anything in the same range as max BMR.
I am --- Navak
JMF90
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 02:41 PM CDT
>And there are still spells that can beat capped BMR as it stands right now.
Frostbite and what else? Nothing that I'm aware of. Certainly no TM spell.
>It's not like anyone in TF has anything in the same range as max BMR.
Except that even if the mage has capped stats, the barbarian is immune to magic while dancing dragon. Navak, we've gone over all this before, don't start please.
Frostbite and what else? Nothing that I'm aware of. Certainly no TM spell.
>It's not like anyone in TF has anything in the same range as max BMR.
Except that even if the mage has capped stats, the barbarian is immune to magic while dancing dragon. Navak, we've gone over all this before, don't start please.
DIVINEWIND
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 02:50 PM CDT
I'm only 100th but I'll test with you. To be honest I'm not impressed with my BMR even when dancing dragon and I have some pretty decent stats.
Find me in Shard - I'm usually in malchata.
- Galren
>>The Rippentropps are a mysterious collective of well-known individuals whose primary charge is to initiate the advancing task of not stopping.
Find me in Shard - I'm usually in malchata.
- Galren
>>The Rippentropps are a mysterious collective of well-known individuals whose primary charge is to initiate the advancing task of not stopping.
JULIAN
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 03:46 PM CDT
>>I'm only 100th but I'll test with you. To be honest I'm not impressed with my BMR even when dancing dragon and I have some pretty decent stats.<<
IDK. There are probably two non-TM spells in my entire arsenal I can even get to go off in your presence while you're dancing dragon. Grab me and we'll test.
- Mazrian
IDK. There are probably two non-TM spells in my entire arsenal I can even get to go off in your presence while you're dancing dragon. Grab me and we'll test.
- Mazrian
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 04:00 PM CDT
I'll always be a Barbarian at heart, but I have to agree that BMR is just way too monstrous at upper levels. They could almost cut the maximum potential of BMR in half and it would still be terrible to behold in combination with Dragon Dance.
****
Seeing as a fully spelled-up Cleric is lit up like the bloody Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center, I really don't think anyone want to see more realistic stealth penalties applied to every spell that gives off some kind of light.
-IDONS-BUDDY
****
Seeing as a fully spelled-up Cleric is lit up like the bloody Christmas tree at Rockefeller Center, I really don't think anyone want to see more realistic stealth penalties applied to every spell that gives off some kind of light.
-IDONS-BUDDY
GRANGERSITE
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 04:15 PM CDT
Will do Galren. You are not there now, but I have seen you about when I am usually in. We will connect.
Wulfcat
Wulfcat
KOUGEN
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 10:14 PM CDT
Galren and I have pretty comparable circle and stats and things seemed to be in the same ballpark if not "fair" by all standards when we tested with Mental Blast recently. A mid-power MB landed an effective stun, but it took a capped MB with a capped IoE up to acheive full success.
We didn't test vs. dancing, though.
~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact
Ruea says, "I swear, I'm forsaking Damaris and building an altar to you."
"I am Captain America (and so can you!)" - http://i25.tinypic.com/157m7a1.jpg
We didn't test vs. dancing, though.
~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact
Ruea says, "I swear, I'm forsaking Damaris and building an altar to you."
"I am Captain America (and so can you!)" - http://i25.tinypic.com/157m7a1.jpg
IDONS-BUDDY
Re: Barbie talk
06/23/2008 10:23 PM CDT
>> We didn't test vs. dancing, though.
Dragon dance is sick.
You would fail if he was dancing, I'm about 99% sure on that.
Rev. Reene
"Even if you are a 1,000 year old Necrolord who is so steeped in blasphemy that your words cause the ground to shake and the sky to darken, you do not tick off Kssarh." - Armifer
Dragon dance is sick.
You would fail if he was dancing, I'm about 99% sure on that.
Rev. Reene
"Even if you are a 1,000 year old Necrolord who is so steeped in blasphemy that your words cause the ground to shake and the sky to darken, you do not tick off Kssarh." - Armifer
JULIAN
Re: Barbie talk
06/24/2008 06:48 AM CDT
>>You would not even get the spell to go off if he was dancing, I'm about 99% sure on that.<<
- Mazrian
- Mazrian
