This is the post I was referencing in my previous:


> I'm not sure off hand if we're going for a literally 1:1 conversion between TM and combat pet skill. So I'm only comfortable saying "if it's Cyclic, it'll be on par. If it's not, it'll be about 2/3rds that." [Armifer]

the " " surrounding the on par scared me significantly. Any chance for clarification on it? Nevertheless, I'd still prefer #3 over either of the other 2.

>Finally, yes, the shock rewrite, which will allow Empaths to just shoot someone if they become aggravated enough, which forcing them to lose their abilities forever.


I'm hoping you meant "without" forcing them and this was a typo, right?

>The cyclic option will be about par (with some variance based on casting power) with your TM in offense.

Sign me up for cyclic, please!

<<You mean... like the myriad of healing spells at the top of the list? :P>>

<<And the magic barrier.>>
<<And the damage barrier.>>
<<And the vitality regen.>>
<<And the reactive poison/disease curing.>>
<<And the disabler.>>

Clearly I've failed to adequately communicate what I mean. Let me try again here...

All that stuff is great, and will certainly enhance one's survivability, but it doesn't have the "feel" of what I'm referring to. Those sorts of things are fine for keeping oneself from reaching the point of death, but I was more hoping for something that reacts in a life-saving way once you've actually gotten there. At this point I'm not even talking about saving my own life, but rather that of someone else.

Until I actually see the new combat system, I can still imagine a situation where someone I'm trying to keep alive suddenly gets clobbered so fast that there's no possible way I can save them...that should not be the case unless I'm particularly ill-prepared. Rather than go on about trying to explain it, though, I'll just throw out a couple suggestions.

1. A metaspell that causes Innocence to auto-cast when I enter the dying state.

2. Let Heart Link use my vitality to sustain someone through the dying state even if it doesn't pulse fast enough to pump some into them. If they're linked the only way they'll be losing vitality is getting hit anyway, and I'd like to be able to keep that from finishing them off

3. A spell to make vital area destruction knock someone (self included) into a dying state instead of outright killing them.

4. A one-shot attack nullifier (think Veil of Ice, but not just for magic) that only works if the target is in a vulnerable state (unconscious, etc.).

5. Assuming I understand the "you take less bodily damage if you get hit when you have high vitality" concept correctly, I'd like a spell that allows my vitality to contribute to someone else's damage resistance (damage is still applied solely to them though) if it's greater than their current vitality.

6. Maybe a blatant "as long as I'm alive, the person I cast this spell on can't be killed" spell. I should probably have to stay pretty close by for this one to remain active.

I apparently am sort of counting on the dying state coming into play much more often. And if it doesn't, I'd like to be able to force it to rather than having to stand there and watch someone die. At least then I theoretically get a chance to try and save them.

Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor

Option #3, Cyclic. Thanks.


________________________________________

NMUs are not people. -GM Armifer

Interesting spell list there, thanks for posting it! I'm pleased overall with what's been listed and look forward to seeing them go live.

In response to the last part (the poll), from the brief overviews of the 3 options, I was only interested in #1:
>1) Esoteric utility. Offenses will be capped at a little under two thirds of the Empath's TM skill. Defensively, it will be capped at a bit better than the Empath's TM skill. The GS will be able to "taunt" enemies -- to keep them from attacking the Empath and force them to attack the GS instead. This will work better than the current "guard" mechanism does now.

I have never really used my GS for a defensive stance, preferring to rely on my own skills to survive rather than something less adept than I am that can be killed while I watch. I'm not too big on "meat shields", so #2 has no appeal to me and I would be unlikely to use it other than to goof around with the spell and torment my friends with scroll...:P.

And, I would need to see the spell in action of course, but making the spell a channeled spell seems problematic on a defense stance. I would assume that if the empath was stunned, they would drop the channel, so then anything that was on the avenger would come to attack the empath once the spell went down too. And while it makes sense that a damage spell would have a channel, if the avenger is only going to do a % of your TM skill in damage, why would you use the avenger and not a proper TM spell where you would use 100% of your skill?

Anyhow, looks good. I would say, don't drop Sprout but fix it! If the spell would make a permanent boost to herbs instead of temporary, it would certainly pull it's weight, at least in my spellbook...:)

Kythryn
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain

>My concern with this is that it will make it exponentially more difficult to find a new target for Paralysis.

I wouldn't worry overmuch about this. The TM calcs for Paralysis will probably be a lot less punitive in M3.0

-Z

Vote for #3

>75th circle "fighter" with a 35th circle avenger

I must be reading the 3:2 ratio totally wrong. I thought a 3:2 ratio was as follows:
(base/3)x2

So a base of 100 TM ranks would give you (100/3)x2= 66.7 effective ranks for your avenger to use.

Anyhow, after reading through more of the posts, unless I am totally off on the 3:2 ration thing, I am more receptive to the 3rd avenger option but am still inclined to 'vote' for the first option. I have found it a luxury to be able to hunt at level with my avenger, however in the global scheme of things, I would expect my player skills, not my pet skills, to be able to make the pet useful at level. A reduced pet would still allow me the ability to go back and help with backtraining of gathering boxes, skins, etc.

Kythryn
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain

> I must be reading the 3:2 ratio totally wrong. I thought a 3:2 ratio was as follows:(base/3)x2 [KYTHRYN]

You are correct with that calculation. And while it would help with backtraining - I don't really ever backtrain except for now with TM. My response stems from the fact that I don't need a pet for backtraining. I use my GS as a helper for training at-level stealths and TM (as in, killing them so I have new ones), so for me, it defeats any use for having the GS at all.

And also, that 2:3 ratio won't be very noticeable in the first few hundred ranks. Once you get to a 100 rank gap in TM and avenger ability due to that ratio, it will be a much more noticeable affect.

My question is in regard to the new spell "compel", as to its usage on players.

Will this be an automatic if the empath has it up, or is it going to have to be directly cast on the person?

IF area spell, will it trigger against a trader on the road when they are wandering by, preventing them from getting back to their caravan?

How will this work in Maze areas <i.e. black leucros, where you wander aimlessly til you find your way out... <well, I do ;-)>

IF it is something that has to be cast on a character...

what are the defenses? WvW? Does it provide consent if empath casts it on someone in a hunting area? Is it considered an aggressive act if empath casts it on a person?

Thanks.

---

You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath

<<Lethargy will be charm vs. fortitude>>

Are you sure? "The user is trying to lure or befuddle the target in a subtler attack, or instead awe the target through sheer presence" doesn't really sound like it describes Lethargy...I would have expected magic vs. fortitude. Or is the new version going to be less "smack them with glowing energy-things that sap their energy" and more "lull them into a drowzy state"? For what it's worth, I like the energy-things.

Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor

>>doesn't really sound like it describes Lethargy...I would have expected magic vs. fortitude.

I don't think it fits particularly well in any of the contests, really. Considering its prereqs (and the fact that it currently angers undead), it does seem to involve Empathy in some way, which to my mind is more of a charm thing than a magic thing.

I don't think it's the red tendrils that do the work, they're just the manifestation of the hoo-doo to my mind. I don't have strong feelings about its placement really, but that doesn't mean it will change.

What reason do you have for wanting it to be a magic contest, other than the messaging?

Melete

---

[Turmis] I'm about to shoot beards in the face

<<What reason do you have for wanting it to be a magic contest, other than the messaging?>>

Well I didn't think it fit particularly well into any of them either, so my brain just defaulted to "so it must be magic then" as the catch-all. I never imagined Lethargy being even loosely related to Empathy; I always figured the undead reaction was just because undead are supposed to be immune to fatigue altogether, so a spell to fatigue them would naturally not be expected to work right.

I don't have strong feelings on it either, it just surprised me is all.

Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor

>We're gonna get to completely re-choose our spells after the change right?

Yes.

---

Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Blunts for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Combat Balance Sheet:
http://angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/balance2.xls

How about different types of critters for the different options. The avenger is more offensive, the defender is more defensive, a guardian knight as another option. I would like to see a wide variety for guardian spirit, even for noncombat things.

Player of Frediwyn

PS

Really Excited about the changes. Looking forward to play with new spells.

<<How about different types of critters for the different options. The avenger is more offensive, the defender is more defensive, a guardian knight as another option. I would like to see a wide variety for guardian spirit, even for noncombat things.

I forget if it was A. or Z., but one of them shot this down. The reason was that awhile back they had two paths they could take the guild: great pets or construct hunting.

> Staying but being functionally the same as the alfar avenger. This is one way that will make it easier for Empaths to differentiate their GS's, since they will all attack and have the same capabilities.

This is kinda random, but any chance they can have a dedicated name to each empath? Like...Wigglesworth always will be my avenger sorta deal?

Do we have any clarity on how the functional effects of lethargy will be changing?


~ Purehand

>collect coin
You manage to collect a pile of coin.
Roundtime: 30 sec.

... Jackpot.

thanks, sorry for missing that


~ Purehand

>collect coin
You manage to collect a pile of coin.
Roundtime: 30 sec.

... Jackpot.

I vote for option #3.

Magus Adakin of Prime
A continually player of Empaths in adjacent to his paladin career.

>cast
Your body already swells with the enhanced strength of a hero.