Didn't we just do this thread like a week ago?

-Evran

Crackling with unspent rage since 386AV.

For 5 plat I'll go ask them to stop.

-Evran

Crackling with unspent rage since 386AV.

May I suggest using the autohealer instead, then?

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Rev. Reene

Reene: tie a scimitar to your fist.
Kystrk: that would just be unrealistic
Reene: because jump kicking someone from hiding and vaporizing their skull is super realistic
Kystrk: I was wearing footwraps

Empaths can request payment based on whatever criteria they choose, and their patients can likewise choose to pay it, or not. Requesting a certain price up front is not a demand.

If you're immature enough to take issue with it OOC'ly, well. That's all you I guess!

Way to take a roleplay opportunity and turn it into an OOC vendetta!

Also, I don't think it was even me this time. Empath union for the win. <3!

-- Player of Szrael --

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You grip the oversized book hanging from your leather belt and survey the area with a hint of malice in your eyes.

With a violent cross-body motion, you draw your oversized book.

I'm not sure how needed my voice is here but I'd like to throw in my own view on the Empath payment debate. A lot of good things have been said, so I'm going to refrain from writing anything lengthy (I hope).

I wholeheartedly agree with the idea of an Empath charging for their healing services.

Story time: think back long ago, through the mists of time, when this game first began. The basic model of making money for any class was to hunt (with the exception of the Traders who are still an enigma to me, I'll admit). Almost everyone hunted except, of course, Empaths. And they basically learned to survive through the kindness of others (tipping, gifts, etc).

I can't think of a single Empath who tried to charge back then, and I seriously think it's a shame because this seriously crippled the possible income for the class and, I'm afraid, relegated Empaths to a menial position. Empaths were no better than servants -- free healers.

(ps: with the exception of empaths who refuse to charge, the only way you can get healed for free in this game is to 1) die or 2) forage or steal your own herbs.)

Anyway - what I'm getting at here is that every class has a way to make some SERIOUS money. Some people hunt, some trade, some craft things, some steal. Empaths .. how do they make the serious money?

- Please don't say they shift or hunt because you know this isn't true. -

I think it's well within an Empath's right to charge for their services, especially as the patient grows in power. Earlier someone mentioned charging based on skills, which seems like a Good Thing, considering the higher your circle, the more likely you are to be swimming in cash.

The other option is charging based on the Empath's skill. I know that higher-level Empaths can clean all but the most devastated character (read: mis-teleport) in less than a minute. If you're wounded head to toe, how long does it take you to get healed at the auto-healer?

I don't have a money model to offer, but I firmly support the creation of one. This "tipping" thing has got to go.

- player of Tyler.

This "good Ole Day's" Empath player moved from crossing, because of the good old days. Players either thought a nod or a hug was good enough or that nice, little half silver piece of junk gem. Worse of all, the path in the can kept getting mistaken for being female.

And as I started out with, I'm not saying we shouldn't charge for our services, I'm just complaining about the extortionistic playing teqniks of a few. Especially those who claim RP yet don't RP the gear properly. Basing the price of healing on the OOC price of the item, verses the "visible condition" of an item is hardly RP. Surely a more fair awnser could be come up with. Maybe someone could continue the petition to find out what the "official" price list is for kiva, when is she going to graduate to a real healer anyway?

Something with a "home made", "used," "home spun" look is something surely a poor person could afford.

Gleaming gems, golden armor, and state of the art weapons, and jewelry, sure, they're rich. Even if a KC dye job is only a gold.

Not to mention the simple fact that these things do tend to be expensive which can wipe a character out. Maybe they've just gotten the stuff and are actually broke, maybe they've had the stuff since it was only 2 silver to four gold per piece and have been sleeping since and haven't had a chance to recover their money from that expensive festival?

Rp if you want to, how you want to. But don't RP with OOC info and expect people to understand you're just rping.

---

If there were no cost or sacrifice involved, there wouldn't be any benefits worth learning, and the entire system would be pointless. --GM Wythor

These statements were not endorsed or made by a GM and may be completely irrealavent to game play.

ps I accept paypal

-- Player of Szrael --

---

You grip the oversized book hanging from your leather belt and survey the area with a hint of malice in your eyes.

With a violent cross-body motion, you draw your oversized book.

p.s. remind me to pay you those plats I owe you, this morning was kind of nuts.

---

Rev. Reene

Reene: tie a scimitar to your fist.
Kystrk: that would just be unrealistic
Reene: because jump kicking someone from hiding and vaporizing their skull is super realistic
Kystrk: I was wearing footwraps

>Knowing that something sold at a festival and knowing its current market value is OOC how, exactly?

Two ways... and brings forth another issue.

First, fests tend to be festivals. Not everyone gets to go to some fests, and thusly wouldn't know what they cost back when they were bought.

Secondly, how is the player who bought them directly from the fest with no intent to sell them to know what some trader has them currently marked up to since they've no intent of selling?

The new issue, goes in conjunction with the second. Bought the stuff directly. No intent to sell them, haven't Bothered to look at the "CMV".

>>OOC price of the item

>No one was trying to charge you dolllars I don't think. If you're the guy I'm thinking of (maybe it was me after all!) then if you really want to get down to OOC coinage, I tried to charge you 2.5 cents, USD.

Again, an "OOC" price doesn't have to be RWD, it can infact be something that requires intentional research with intent to have a price.

> -- Player of Szrael --

And yes, that's the instance I'm complaining about.

You can play a trader view of healing, and my commoner is more than happy to rp a street rat and feign poorness.

I have studdied the trading actions in the real world. Feigned indolence is often the first step of a truely skilled barterer.(Oh, well that's much too much for me.) or (Ahh, well I don't have that much just now.) tend to be common phrazes, followed, less commonly and more often from actual poor people (who do you take me for? <insert famous rich person or accolade here>). As a mater of point my commoner's main money happens to be in shard, and still only has 2 gold, since he actually had to repair his armor from the invasion attack before the damage was turned off.

And has been turned off for about a year.

Sometimes the player may be feigning indolence is infact RPing Their style. Assuming they're just being a snit, just takes it a little far on the opening of a barter.

---

If there were no cost or sacrifice involved, there wouldn't be any benefits worth learning, and the entire system would be pointless. --GM Wythor

These statements were not endorsed or made by a GM and may be completely irrealavent to game play.

>> Two ways... and brings forth another issue.

Neither of the ways you're describing are remotely OOC in any way shape or form, they are merely potentially inconvenient for your character.

>> You can play a trader view of healing, and my commoner is more than happy to rp a street rat and feign poorness.

People are also free to reject your commoner's assertions and tell them to pay up or find another healer. This is still not OOC.

For the curious, this is the commoner's inventory:

He is wearing a copperwood longbow, a thigh quiver dyed in a brown and green camouflage pattern, a well-worn harness bearing a faded design of a dragon with missing scales, a polished leather belt with a darkly-tinted oben hanging from it, an oilcloth rucksack, some black leather elbow wraps affixed with dagger blades, some rough suede knee wraps affixed with sharpened peccary tusks, a sapphire blue tail pouch, a pair of black calfskin hipboots, a gold tailband engraved with a sinuous dragon grasping a cambrinth orb, some steel-toed footwraps with silver buckles, a light crossbow, a silver nose ring, an iron-banded parry stick with brown leather straps, some satin leggings, some jagged rock crystal knuckleguards, a scarlet canvas-backed bone breastplate, a tiger-faced bone mask, a leather targe painted with a battle scene, some bone greaves etched with grimacing skulls, some bone vambraces with silver skull clasps and some painted bone gauntlets.

---

Rev. Reene

Reene: tie a scimitar to your fist.
Kystrk: that would just be unrealistic
Reene: because jump kicking someone from hiding and vaporizing their skull is super realistic
Kystrk: I was wearing footwraps

>>there is a place for it, it just needs uptweaking the price a bit

You may be right, and this is certainly true for remote places (islands, P5 and Muspari), but Zoluren would need a BIG uptweak as an alternative to removal.

The unresponsiveness of the empaths to healing requests is troublesome, but that result is not entirely independent from the fact that empath's aren't tipped well on average. If healing is not very rewarding, and you don't feel like putting on a smile, and spending the effort to type accept and stow with the 70 kronar nugget that you usually get tipped, then you probably won't be ready to jump on the next patient that walks in.

To be fair, the unresponsive empaths there are probably pet empaths anyways, who's owners are busy elsewhere, making real money, so the service may not necessarily improve with the total removal of NPC healers. But still, a price increase of NPC puffs will be helpful.


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"All models are wrong, some are useful." -George C. Box

>>Are you insinuating I should abuse Mechanics just so one character has 50 golds on him at all time? Are you going to transfer it for me when all my friends are sleeping?

...what?

~Arwinia

The Empath spellbook is a riddle trapped in an enigma hidden inside a lot of suck.-Armifer

You're complaining about 5 gold?

~Player of "One of the Caels."
Spiritual Adviser to the Heretics

>You're complaining about 5 gold?

No, I'm complaining about the logic of the competing and false statements of.

5 gold for your 2 gold worth of auto healer wounds or go find an auto healer that will charge you more than 5 gold for your 2 gold worth of auto healer wounds.

(Which is why I would like a price list set by kiva, if for nothing else than to point out minor errors in logic such as that.)

and

I'm RPing using OOC information based on assumed value of old materials that I can't prove the player of the character I'm trying to make a fool of didn't buy in person for the OC or get for free instead of the non existant elanthian blue book, which makes any such assumption purely ooc for said items.

That's like assuming the drunk in the 50,000 wrecked Cadalac sleeping in the back alley really has 5 grand in their back pocket and just likes sleeping in torn rags in a totaled car. And while this person may never see the inside of a dentist office, they still get band aides for minor leaks.

---

If there were no cost or sacrifice involved, there wouldn't be any benefits worth learning, and the entire system would be pointless. --GM Wythor

These statements were not endorsed or made by a GM and may be completely irrealavent to game play.

>the auto healer doesn't have to spend 20 minutes repairing themselves from your wounds before moving on to another person or trying to train something else, assuming they're a low level empath.

>~Arwinia

Doesn't change what they charge you either. If your going to quote another empaths prices, including auto empaths, it's courtesy to get them close to reasonibly correct.

---

If there were no cost or sacrifice involved, there wouldn't be any benefits worth learning, and the entire system would be pointless. --GM Wythor

These statements were not endorsed or made by a GM and may be completely irrealavent to game play.

>>Doesn't change what they charge you either. If your going to quote another empaths prices, including auto empaths, it's courtesy to get them close to reasonibly correct.

The point? You're missing it.

Szrael does overcharge, or at least she starts her prices artificially high. Why would she do such a thing?

Think about that for a while and then get back to me.

You're also making a huge assumption in thinking that she was there to heal people at all. The fact that you stood there asking for five minutes and no one stirred to help you until you nearly bled to death might also have tipped you off.

-- Player of Szrael --

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You grip the oversized book hanging from your leather belt and survey the area with a hint of malice in your eyes.

With a violent cross-body motion, you draw your oversized book.

Also, I should clarify that I mean overcharge in the sense that Szrael charges more than other Empaths and more than what most people are willing to pay.

Whether or not 5 gold is actually too much is a totally different discussion.

-- Player of Szrael --

---

You grip the oversized book hanging from your leather belt and survey the area with a hint of malice in your eyes.

With a violent cross-body motion, you draw your oversized book.

>>I believe she even used the OOC term for them, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Nobody that knows her is going to believe this for a second

>>Sophorana for Empath Union Presidant in 394!

You could at least get her name right

~Arwinia

The Empath spellbook is a riddle trapped in an enigma hidden inside a lot of suck.-Armifer

Please do. But in the Entirety, not with the creative cutting that the other one has done. No comments, no cutting out the part where she says "I ask for money and people attack me for it."

But if you want to play CNN with the log, please keep it to yourself.

>You did a poor job conveying this. If I remember correctly it was about 5 minutes or so before Szrael even acknowledged your presence. For someone who can't stand the sight of blood, I'd also think going into a place where blood flows constantly would be very OOC.

You mean over reacting and paranoia of blood are now the exact same thing suddenly? He's not Afraid of blood, he Over Reacts to blood.

---

If there were no cost or sacrifice involved, there wouldn't be any benefits worth learning, and the entire system would be pointless. --GM Wythor

These statements were not endorsed or made by a GM and may be completely irrealavent to game play.

>>If she had stopped there, instead of even mentioning the auto paths IG, I believe she even used the OOC term for them, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

The only way Szrael referred to the "auto-path" was as "The Martyr" which is not OOC.

>>His vitality never dropped below 99

You close your eyes, drawing all your thoughts inward, and then slowly reach out to sense the life essences of those around you...

You sense:

The presence of Myrlyngs, whose life essence is wavering.

Uh huh.

http://cl1p.net/poorman/

That's the entire log right there. I guess at one point Szrael drew forth a dictionary, which might have been construed as slightly threatening.

-- Player of Szrael --

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You grip the oversized book hanging from your leather belt and survey the area with a hint of malice in your eyes.

With a violent cross-body motion, you draw your oversized book.