>>Isn't tenacity already changing though, since you can't have a general defensive buff like it is now?

That's Contemplation. Tenacity is a damage barrier.

---

Ogdaro
"Take chances and see what you can get away with, it only costs you a favor or two if you mess up." -Issus

>Tenacity is the best thing we have going for us, IMO. Shortening its duration is a horrible idea.

Interesting. I'm not presenting these as disagreements, but as questions;
1 ) Why do you say it's the best thing? I haven't tested it very extensively, but I feel Monkey Piranha and Python all put up pretty substantial defensive boons. Are you saying Tenacity is better?
2 ) I find meditations to presently be more inconvenient and less usable than berserks. I use berserks more frequently than meditations. Do you feel otherwise?
3 ) I asked about implementing a general physical barrier, because I wasn't aware this is actually what Tenacity was doing. Is Tenacity similar to, say, CH (minus the Stam boost of course) with no messaging?

>>1 ) Why do you say it's the best thing? I haven't tested it very extensively, but I feel Monkey Piranha and Python all put up pretty substantial defensive boons. Are you saying Tenacity is better?

Tenacity reduces physical damage. It's not a defensive boost. I think our defensive suite is very good.


>>2 ) I find meditations to presently be more inconvenient and less usable than berserks. I use berserks more frequently than meditations. Do you feel otherwise?

A meditation lasts like 30-40 mins, a berserk a handful of minutes. A meditation has an upfront IF cost, but nothing to maintain it, berserks consume IF like fat kids at an all-you-can-eat donut buffet. There will be a mastery that will allow you to use meditations in combat, standing. It is rather easy to move a few rooms away and restart a meditation, regardless.

>>3 ) I asked about implementing a general physical barrier, because I wasn't aware this is actually what Tenacity was doing. Is Tenacity similar to, say, CH (minus the Stam boost of course) with no messaging?

I know nothing of your magic. But since you now know what Tenacity does, then I guess that is that.

---

"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade

It's best to just ignore the obvious guild vs. guild trolls before they completely derail the thread.

About our defensive stuff, I was pretty much responding to your piranha and monkey thing. I hate having a berserk being our shield buff, as I said several times.

>>Excellent, thanks for the clarification. I asked for a clarification for a reason, but I'll drop this now.

Huh? If this is sarcasm, then... okay. You didn't initially know what Tenacity was, but then you did after further clarification, so I figured that you understood it and didn't need to further explain. If it wasn't sarcasm, no problem.

I think it's critical that if you're going to comment on things, you know what they are and what they do.

---

"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade

Don't barbarians have a better defensive suite of skills than most guilds? I'm just wondering I figured they would but don't really keep up. I know I only have a evasion and reflex buff, and magical defense for the most part unless you include damage reducers and stamina on the list. I was more thinking parry, evasion, shield, balance and reflex. Some might argue balance but its probably a better boost than you would think.

Barbarians are uncouth, hoary creatures that always think they deserve more than you give them kodius. Come work for the Necromancer team and i'd be happy.

<<<Is it so mind numbingly difficult to think 'hey, he thinks the current defense setup is good, but could be better. By, you know, making the only shield buff barbs get last more than 5 minutes. By making it something besides a berserk'?

Tenacity is great, it's the only barrier spell barbs get, and those have proven to be omgwthbbq overpowered in 3.0, so of course everyone wants to keep it. It's ALSO a standard hunting buff which wouldn't remotely make sense to have as a 'panic button'. Barrier spells work in conjunction with armor and vit-barrier mechanics. Once you've started taking big chunks of damage and 'need' a barrier spell it's going to do you significantly less good, since the reason they're so powerful is they allow vit to stay untouched.

And if I need to explain why vit-barrier mechanics are so important you're just being deliberately trollish.
>>>



And there it is, all wrapped up with a pretty pink bow and spelled out for you. Pretty much spot on.

I do not see Tornado changing. Barbarians nearly failed to get any shield buff at all, and it is not possible to have every type of buff in every category.

Many Berserks are panic buttons. Not all of them are, and their function has evolved in the year since the rewrite.

Avalanche and Famine are two very good panic abilities.

Wildfire is well, more on the offensive side.

Flashflood offers complete crowd-control immunity instantly.

Cyclone is not a panic button. Unless you find your voice hoarse and in need of some help.. but still, not very panic-like.

Volcano is a panic button when you know you are in over your head.

Tsunami is not a panic button. Useful for increasing your damage like the old Wildfire did.

With all the new ways to earn IF, it should be no problem working a berserk into your routine every 5-8 minutes. They have evolve. Please, let's move on to more fruitful discussions.


Some random 1-slot ideas for Contemplation -

What if it removed the 60-second startup-time on Forms while in effect?

Offhand buff?

Mastery skill buffs?

While Contemplation is up, meditations take effect in 1-pulse. (sitting/combat requirement still depends on Yogi Mastery).

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

RE contemplation
<<Mastery skill buffs?>>

I like this personally.

<<With all the new ways to earn IF, it should be no problem working a berserk into your routine every 5-8 minutes. They have evolve. Please, let's move on to more fruitful discussions.>>

Gotcha.

<<Some random 1-slot ideas for Contemplation ->>

What if contemplation removed certain combat penalties? Like say removed the penalty against 2HE/bow when used with a shield, the penalty against shields when using a bow/2HE?

Or what if it remained an armor booster, but also eliminated (1000 Paladins just screamed out in horror) or reduced the penalty for mixing armors?

>>Contemplation

What about armor hindrance reducer?

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons

Toad owns burn pretty hard (burn is a lot of fire damage).

<<1. Armor skill buff including defending (but not shield)
2. Armor hindrance reduction>>

Both of these ideas are great.

>>What about armor hindrance reducer?

Those no longer exist.

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

>>Some random 1-slot ideas for Contemplation -

Kodius, what about making it buff the lower damage stats of a held weapon and the suitedness? Maybe make it a 2 slot ability?

---

"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade

>Kodius, what about making it buff the lower damage stats of a held weapon and the suitedness? Maybe make it a 2 slot ability?

+1 please

>>Armor ranks with the elimination of the penalty for using weapons (2HE/Bow) with an arm worn shield would be pretty nice.

I could definitely go for this.

---

"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade

I would have to discuss the 2HE penalty removal with others. Paladins would need something comparable, as they are technically best-suited for using shields of all the Guilds.

Yes, buffing Armor does quite a bit. It just isn't easy for you to see/notice/measure it.

It is mechanically hard for a meditation to buff a weapon stat. Forms and Berserks "cycle" periodically which is a convenient place to handle the weapon boosting effect and changing of weapons. I'd have to implement a custom system to do such a thing with a meditation. So we'd have to see.

Seeing potential for a few new abilities in this thread :)

---

"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

How bout raising the lower and upper protection range of a shield? Not sure if Paladins have something like that either, AND I am also not even sure how much of a help that is honestly so just throwing that out there.

Codiax.
Forged Weapons:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Codiax#Codiax-Forged-Weapons