Previous
To circle back a little bit, I want to add a voice in support of the feeling that clown suits and back training for TDPs instead of flexibility are symptoms of a problem. I've heard it repeated that you're not forced to do anything, but game design over the years has shown again and again that players will seek optimal routes even when they're not fun. I am interested in seeing what the Devs can come up with that stops rewarding this behavior while not feeling overly punitive to people who have been operating under the system as is for years. I'm eagerly awaiting being able to wear my favorite armor out in the field in addition to pvp.
SEPED
SQUANTO
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 11:51 AM CST
Out of curiosity, what is unfun about training 4 armor types? It's completely passive. You put it on and it trains. You can put on whatever armor you want whenever you want. The more you combine, the more penalties are stacked on you (this leads to balance).
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
DISCOTEQ21
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 11:56 AM CST
<<Out of curiosity, what is unfun about training 4 armor types? It's completely passive. You put it on and it trains. You can put on whatever armor you want whenever you want. The more you combine, the more penalties are stacked on you (this leads to balance).>>
You still will have to train all armor types. I'd never suggest not doing so because as the game changes you might regret not having ranks in something.
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
You still will have to train all armor types. I'd never suggest not doing so because as the game changes you might regret not having ranks in something.
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 12:02 PM CST
>>Out of curiosity, what is unfun about training 4 armor types?
I think the general expectation that it should be standard to do to not fall "behind" on TDP gains. I think the argument is that the only "real" advantage that someone training multiple armors should have is being able to effectively wear more armors, not having X more stats because of it. Someone is arguably "worse" off if they wear one armor class, not because of that armor class's inherent disadvantages, but because they won't have as many stats as the other guy.
As a more specific/explicit example: Paladins are effectively penalized stat-gain wise if they wear the most protective/heavy/slow armor they have, vs wearing a bit of that, then some lighter stuff, then some middle stuff, etc.
As a disclosure, I currently train light/chain/brig. Light because I might someday want to be more stealthy than I am now, chain because it's my favorite pick, and brig because I just have some gloves I like that happen to be brig.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I think the general expectation that it should be standard to do to not fall "behind" on TDP gains. I think the argument is that the only "real" advantage that someone training multiple armors should have is being able to effectively wear more armors, not having X more stats because of it. Someone is arguably "worse" off if they wear one armor class, not because of that armor class's inherent disadvantages, but because they won't have as many stats as the other guy.
As a more specific/explicit example: Paladins are effectively penalized stat-gain wise if they wear the most protective/heavy/slow armor they have, vs wearing a bit of that, then some lighter stuff, then some middle stuff, etc.
As a disclosure, I currently train light/chain/brig. Light because I might someday want to be more stealthy than I am now, chain because it's my favorite pick, and brig because I just have some gloves I like that happen to be brig.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
SQUANTO
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 12:21 PM CST
That doesn't explain why it is not fun. How is it any less fun than training 1 armor? How is training armor fun or not fun?
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
2DUMBARSE
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 12:33 PM CST
>That doesn't explain why it is not fun. How is it any less fun than training 1 armor? How is training armor fun or not fun?
It's like if evasion were split into evasion tumble, evasion sidestep, evasion run and evasion jump when any one of them will prevent damage the same way. Your shoes determine which one you train. After a while, the novelty would wear and probably just stick to one pair of shoes for a serious hunt, but you'd be left with the nuisance of having to remember to change into the right kind of shoes every time you train just because the skills exist.
It's like if evasion were split into evasion tumble, evasion sidestep, evasion run and evasion jump when any one of them will prevent damage the same way. Your shoes determine which one you train. After a while, the novelty would wear and probably just stick to one pair of shoes for a serious hunt, but you'd be left with the nuisance of having to remember to change into the right kind of shoes every time you train just because the skills exist.
SEPED
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 12:34 PM CST
<Out of curiosity, what is unfun about training 4 armor types? It's completely passive.
It's not about the mechanics of training, that's hand waved away almost completely because of scripts, you just need a warm body in the seat for N years paying enough attention to notice afk checks. It's unfun in the roleplay sense, I don't want a ranger who's trained in brig and plate. As you pointed out though they train for almost effectively free(some effort in armor swapping to stealth) so ignoring 2 major skills in my secondary skillset is a hefty mistake under the current system, one which I do make.
<You can put on whatever armor you want whenever you want. The more you combine, the more penalties are stacked on you
This has not been my experience, the armor stacking penalty hasn't been noticeable to me after training single, double, and quad armor setups. It's there, but right now if I'd used quad armor setup instead of a duo I'd have enough tdps to raise my highest stat (reflex) 5 more points, more than offsetting the penalty.
<I'd never suggest not doing so because as the game changes you might regret not having ranks in something.
But that's the benefit you should gain in training everything, this flexibility and adaptability, not being handicapped through tdps. I'd rather not train armors that don't fit my character concept and just deal with the fact that some day the game may shift in such a way that rangers are optimal in plate armor, I'm still going to be an evasion focused leather/chain wearer.
I think we're into the weeds here though armor is hardly the only place it manifests. Why am I playing zills everywhere I go? Is it because my years of stealth and silence stalking the woodlands have left a bottled up need to express myself and bring song to the crossing? No it's a side effect of the system rewarding training everything unrelated to your core character concept.
And since it feels like this is going to dovetail right back my previous point, 'You don't have to.' isn't really a valid response when all experience has shown otherwise re: optimal paths and players pursuing less interesting courses of action. Yes some people (myself included) will make strictly sub optimal decisions for the sake of a character concept, but many don't and it's a bad experience for both sides. There's no reason these systems have to work in opposition when they could instead be complimentary.
It's not about the mechanics of training, that's hand waved away almost completely because of scripts, you just need a warm body in the seat for N years paying enough attention to notice afk checks. It's unfun in the roleplay sense, I don't want a ranger who's trained in brig and plate. As you pointed out though they train for almost effectively free(some effort in armor swapping to stealth) so ignoring 2 major skills in my secondary skillset is a hefty mistake under the current system, one which I do make.
<You can put on whatever armor you want whenever you want. The more you combine, the more penalties are stacked on you
This has not been my experience, the armor stacking penalty hasn't been noticeable to me after training single, double, and quad armor setups. It's there, but right now if I'd used quad armor setup instead of a duo I'd have enough tdps to raise my highest stat (reflex) 5 more points, more than offsetting the penalty.
<I'd never suggest not doing so because as the game changes you might regret not having ranks in something.
But that's the benefit you should gain in training everything, this flexibility and adaptability, not being handicapped through tdps. I'd rather not train armors that don't fit my character concept and just deal with the fact that some day the game may shift in such a way that rangers are optimal in plate armor, I'm still going to be an evasion focused leather/chain wearer.
I think we're into the weeds here though armor is hardly the only place it manifests. Why am I playing zills everywhere I go? Is it because my years of stealth and silence stalking the woodlands have left a bottled up need to express myself and bring song to the crossing? No it's a side effect of the system rewarding training everything unrelated to your core character concept.
And since it feels like this is going to dovetail right back my previous point, 'You don't have to.' isn't really a valid response when all experience has shown otherwise re: optimal paths and players pursuing less interesting courses of action. Yes some people (myself included) will make strictly sub optimal decisions for the sake of a character concept, but many don't and it's a bad experience for both sides. There's no reason these systems have to work in opposition when they could instead be complimentary.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 12:35 PM CST
>>That doesn't explain why it is not fun. How is it any less fun than training 1 armor? How is training armor fun or not fun?
The same reason a game-culture that expects and encourages players to train everything for the sake of meeting a specific metric is not fun. Because, as Armifer pointed out, it becomes work.
The fact that armor is a passive gain is immaterial to the point. In the end, going "just wear some of everything for the TDPs" shows there's a major flaw in the system. And, if you don't buy the "it's not fun to do X", then there's always the backup of "letting players passively gain that many skills at once is bad design because why would we do that."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
The same reason a game-culture that expects and encourages players to train everything for the sake of meeting a specific metric is not fun. Because, as Armifer pointed out, it becomes work.
The fact that armor is a passive gain is immaterial to the point. In the end, going "just wear some of everything for the TDPs" shows there's a major flaw in the system. And, if you don't buy the "it's not fun to do X", then there's always the backup of "letting players passively gain that many skills at once is bad design because why would we do that."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 12:40 PM CST
>>But that's the benefit you should gain in training everything, this flexibility and adaptability, not being handicapped through tdps.
Exactly. My character trains two armors because I can see wanting to sometimes be sneaky and sometimes be not so sneaky but still kinda sneaky. My character trains a third because I got a thing that I like wearing that happens to be a third armor type. Are the TDPs I get from all three better than if I was getting from two or one? Sure. But I shouldn't be at a stat-based advantage because I'm wearing three types of armor vs two or one, nor should I be at a disadvantage because my light armor hood isn't a light armor cowl and I'm not wearing a heavy plate mask.
My character trains a few weapons (SE/SB/LT/Staves/Brawling/Sling) because they seem like fun things to train and I want to be good at all of them. At the same time, it's bad gameplay to go "well you should really train every weapon, or else you're at a disadvantage because game systems are going to expect your stats to be at X+10 because the game has to acknowledge there are people doing things this way by a certain point."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Exactly. My character trains two armors because I can see wanting to sometimes be sneaky and sometimes be not so sneaky but still kinda sneaky. My character trains a third because I got a thing that I like wearing that happens to be a third armor type. Are the TDPs I get from all three better than if I was getting from two or one? Sure. But I shouldn't be at a stat-based advantage because I'm wearing three types of armor vs two or one, nor should I be at a disadvantage because my light armor hood isn't a light armor cowl and I'm not wearing a heavy plate mask.
My character trains a few weapons (SE/SB/LT/Staves/Brawling/Sling) because they seem like fun things to train and I want to be good at all of them. At the same time, it's bad gameplay to go "well you should really train every weapon, or else you're at a disadvantage because game systems are going to expect your stats to be at X+10 because the game has to acknowledge there are people doing things this way by a certain point."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
NINEVAH1
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 12:57 PM CST
All I'm seeing presented here is a bunch of theories and statements about what other people feel/train without anything to back it up. What I've gotten from a lot of people amounts to "the power-gamers are too powerful and it ruins my game experience to try and keep up with them because I feel like I have to.".
SHADOWCHIEF2
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 01:08 PM CST
<Out of curiosity, what is unfun about training 4 armor types? It's completely passive. You put it on and it trains. You can put on whatever armor you want whenever you want. The more you combine, the more penalties are stacked on you (this leads to balance).
This statement basically.
I know ALOT of people that play the game, and they purposely train a lot of things, not for any factor of stats in PVP or what not, but because its what they like to do. Watch the numbers go up, train a lot of things and be rewarded. You would be surprised how many people find enjoyment out of just that. Some people may not find it to their playstyle but plenty of people do.
This statement basically.
I know ALOT of people that play the game, and they purposely train a lot of things, not for any factor of stats in PVP or what not, but because its what they like to do. Watch the numbers go up, train a lot of things and be rewarded. You would be surprised how many people find enjoyment out of just that. Some people may not find it to their playstyle but plenty of people do.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 01:24 PM CST
>>All I'm seeing presented here is a bunch of theories and statements about what other people feel/train without anything to back it up.
Fact 1: Skills generate TDPs
Fact 2: The counter for TDP generation is set at every 200 "points"
Fact 3: This counter was set at a time when having 200 (or 300!) ranks was considered a lot
Fact 4: This was also created at a time where you couldn't have every weapon/armor moving at once, due to mindstates
Fact 5: In addition to being created at a time where the game culture wasn't as "grindy"
Fact 6: Due to the nature of how most RPGs are played these days (eg: Skyrim), you're generally encouraged to be great at everything than good at some things, because there's no reason not to
Fact 7: With all these things in mind, the game never, in its original design, expected TDP gain via skills to be this notable in comparison to TDP gain via circles
Fact 8: GMs have to design things to keep them reasonably "challenging" in relation to how players are set up at certain points in the game
Sidenote to Fact 8: This is why there are limitations/buffers to releasing weapons/armor of specific tiers. Because if everyone had a tyrium katana with ice flares by circle X, critters would have to be adjusted accordingly.
Fact 9: Connecting Fact 7 and Fact 8, if GMs look at the writing on the wall and see the strong trend toward "train everything for the TDPs," they will have to set up systems to expect this.
Fact 10: This would then force players who do not do this to also do it, in order to keep the pace.
Fact 11: Grinding everything just for the sake of TDPs is seen by some GMs (like Armifer) as too much "work" for the game.
Sidenote to Fact 11 1: This is regarded as a bad thing, and a warning sign of bad game design.
Sidenote to Fact 11 2: Skills should be trained because they offer something of value inherent in those skills, not because they let you boost your stats more.
Conclusion: Given that skill-based TDP generation was made two decades ago and has not factored in the difference in skill-range expectations and/or how people can learn skills faster (aka: no wall ranks, no frozen mindstates, offline exp drain, etc), it stands to reason that maybe TDPs need to be looked at again.
Supporting View for Conclusion 1: Similar to how combat damage didn't scale properly past a certain point, and why high level PvE/P fights are no longer "who lands the first hit that explodes everything"
Supporting View for Conclusion 2: Similar to how magic was re-scaled/reassessed so everyone didn't cap their spells around 400-500 ranks
Supporting View for Conclusion 3: Similar to how crafting scales into the low 1k range
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Fact 1: Skills generate TDPs
Fact 2: The counter for TDP generation is set at every 200 "points"
Fact 3: This counter was set at a time when having 200 (or 300!) ranks was considered a lot
Fact 4: This was also created at a time where you couldn't have every weapon/armor moving at once, due to mindstates
Fact 5: In addition to being created at a time where the game culture wasn't as "grindy"
Fact 6: Due to the nature of how most RPGs are played these days (eg: Skyrim), you're generally encouraged to be great at everything than good at some things, because there's no reason not to
Fact 7: With all these things in mind, the game never, in its original design, expected TDP gain via skills to be this notable in comparison to TDP gain via circles
Fact 8: GMs have to design things to keep them reasonably "challenging" in relation to how players are set up at certain points in the game
Sidenote to Fact 8: This is why there are limitations/buffers to releasing weapons/armor of specific tiers. Because if everyone had a tyrium katana with ice flares by circle X, critters would have to be adjusted accordingly.
Fact 9: Connecting Fact 7 and Fact 8, if GMs look at the writing on the wall and see the strong trend toward "train everything for the TDPs," they will have to set up systems to expect this.
Fact 10: This would then force players who do not do this to also do it, in order to keep the pace.
Fact 11: Grinding everything just for the sake of TDPs is seen by some GMs (like Armifer) as too much "work" for the game.
Sidenote to Fact 11 1: This is regarded as a bad thing, and a warning sign of bad game design.
Sidenote to Fact 11 2: Skills should be trained because they offer something of value inherent in those skills, not because they let you boost your stats more.
Conclusion: Given that skill-based TDP generation was made two decades ago and has not factored in the difference in skill-range expectations and/or how people can learn skills faster (aka: no wall ranks, no frozen mindstates, offline exp drain, etc), it stands to reason that maybe TDPs need to be looked at again.
Supporting View for Conclusion 1: Similar to how combat damage didn't scale properly past a certain point, and why high level PvE/P fights are no longer "who lands the first hit that explodes everything"
Supporting View for Conclusion 2: Similar to how magic was re-scaled/reassessed so everyone didn't cap their spells around 400-500 ranks
Supporting View for Conclusion 3: Similar to how crafting scales into the low 1k range
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 01:27 PM CST
Oh, and that doesn't even enter the discussion of how everyone being able to eventually hit 100 x8 in all stats promotes uniformity in the long run. GMs want to discourage this. This is why there is a desire to provide more feats/spells than slots allow: so players actually have to choose more than "what do I get first" and instead "what do I want to do, as a whole".
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
BLUEFROG99
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 01:47 PM CST
I don't feel like stats specifically have to be the place to show heterogeneity. There are so many things that make characters distinctive. It's not just stat numbers.
If it were just numbers, we wouldn't mock the new person driving ultra-HLC-character-number-5 they just bought. Haha, they didn't even know about some-guild-skill. Haha, they did such-and-such that the previous player never would have done. Oh my gosh, they don't even know how to blah. Yeah, I bet you can take down ultra-HLC-character-number-5 right now, he's got a new player driving him.
If it were just numbers, we wouldn't mock the new person driving ultra-HLC-character-number-5 they just bought. Haha, they didn't even know about some-guild-skill. Haha, they did such-and-such that the previous player never would have done. Oh my gosh, they don't even know how to blah. Yeah, I bet you can take down ultra-HLC-character-number-5 right now, he's got a new player driving him.
2DUMBARSE
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 02:02 PM CST
The topic was started when Armifer stated that TDP gain is a runaway problem that hurts the game overall, which I read as feedback elicitation. A lot of times, feedback is just opinion. I think it's fair to try and read opinions from posters as though they have the game's best interest in mind rather than their characters'. The self-serving posts usually stand out anyway.
I for one would probably lose, if we call it that, with a change like this but I'm totally on board if it makes the game better. On the other hand, if we're talking about reducing TDPs with no significant end goal other than changing stat distribution, then I bow out apathetic. I only care if the end goal is balance and new engaging content, stuff that adds fun. A TDP change alone probably won't measurably change the way I play; it'll still be a grind, work for no reason other than watching numbers go up since I can already cap all my spells and abilities, and I've already sparred enough times over the years with the same challenging opponents who have an interest in PvP.
I for one would probably lose, if we call it that, with a change like this but I'm totally on board if it makes the game better. On the other hand, if we're talking about reducing TDPs with no significant end goal other than changing stat distribution, then I bow out apathetic. I only care if the end goal is balance and new engaging content, stuff that adds fun. A TDP change alone probably won't measurably change the way I play; it'll still be a grind, work for no reason other than watching numbers go up since I can already cap all my spells and abilities, and I've already sparred enough times over the years with the same challenging opponents who have an interest in PvP.
TOTLIIO
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 02:05 PM CST
<<All I'm seeing presented here is a bunch of theories and statements about what other people feel/train without anything to back it up. What I've gotten from a lot of people amounts to "the power-gamers are too powerful and it ruins my game experience to try and keep up with them because I feel like I have to.".>>
That's all this entire thread is. Don't kid yourself. It's a sad and transparent attempt, at that.
Sadly it seems like most of the people in this thread glossed over the post where Armifer said this was put on hold for a year, and possibly indefinitely depending on some other changes coming down the pipe. I for one am grateful.
That's all this entire thread is. Don't kid yourself. It's a sad and transparent attempt, at that.
Sadly it seems like most of the people in this thread glossed over the post where Armifer said this was put on hold for a year, and possibly indefinitely depending on some other changes coming down the pipe. I for one am grateful.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 02:07 PM CST
>>I don't feel like stats specifically have to be the place to show heterogeneity. There are so many things that make characters distinctive. It's not just stat numbers.
I don't think it's the one place to show it, but it's definitely a place to show it.
I like the idea of super fast/strong/smart characters just as much as I like the idea of a light weapon user, a heavy weapon user, someone who uses fists and staves, someone who likes to do a lot of crafting instead, etc.
Plus, if the end goal on the horizon is essentially 100x8, the only place for diversity is the route there, which seems a bit hollow.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I don't think it's the one place to show it, but it's definitely a place to show it.
I like the idea of super fast/strong/smart characters just as much as I like the idea of a light weapon user, a heavy weapon user, someone who uses fists and staves, someone who likes to do a lot of crafting instead, etc.
Plus, if the end goal on the horizon is essentially 100x8, the only place for diversity is the route there, which seems a bit hollow.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
DISCOTEQ21
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 02:15 PM CST
>>Plus, if the end goal on the horizon is essentially 100x8, the only place for diversity is the route there, which seems a bit hollow.<<
diversity is an old wooden ship
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
BADGOPHER
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 02:20 PM CST
I've never heard the 'old wooden ship' one. Care to explain? All I can think of is it creaks a lot.
DISCOTEQ21
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 02:41 PM CST
It was used in the civil war era.
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Don't forget to vote for dragonrealms:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: Development update request
02/18/2016 02:56 PM CST
> "the power-gamers are too powerful and it ruins my game experience to try and keep up with them because I feel like I have to.".>>
I would be strongly in favor of this change in a single-player game. I don't avoid PVP in DR because I have some kind of grudge against the PVP players -- heck I used to run a spar night -- it's just a terrible experience. Maybe your PVP game is strangely rewarding? I just don't find DR compares well at all to the better PVP muds out there, or even the middling ones.
> Out of curiosity, what is unfun about training 4 armor types? It's completely passive. You put it on and it trains.
I don't think an example say, 4 armors or all weapons, or whatever is intrinsically unfun. I'm really enjoying my moon-mage's wacky three armor setup because it looks cool and it makes being a tert in plate... I'm not going to say it WORKS but it's playable and fun. That flexibility is neat in DR, you can do a lot 'outside the box' and the game allows that.
>It's like if evasion were split into evasion tumble, evasion sidestep, evasion run and evasion jump when any one of them will prevent damage the same way. Your shoes determine which one you train. After a while, the novelty would wear and probably just stick to one pair of shoes for a serious hunt, but you'd be left with the nuisance of having to remember to change into the right kind of shoes every time you train just because the skills exist.
Ha. I remember when they split Primary Magic and an actual development argument was that people would diversify their strengths and weaknesses in magic. It was like, are you crazy? People will just shuffle spells. This is the game DR is right now: the only development is new and less interesting ways to grind.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
I would be strongly in favor of this change in a single-player game. I don't avoid PVP in DR because I have some kind of grudge against the PVP players -- heck I used to run a spar night -- it's just a terrible experience. Maybe your PVP game is strangely rewarding? I just don't find DR compares well at all to the better PVP muds out there, or even the middling ones.
> Out of curiosity, what is unfun about training 4 armor types? It's completely passive. You put it on and it trains.
I don't think an example say, 4 armors or all weapons, or whatever is intrinsically unfun. I'm really enjoying my moon-mage's wacky three armor setup because it looks cool and it makes being a tert in plate... I'm not going to say it WORKS but it's playable and fun. That flexibility is neat in DR, you can do a lot 'outside the box' and the game allows that.
>It's like if evasion were split into evasion tumble, evasion sidestep, evasion run and evasion jump when any one of them will prevent damage the same way. Your shoes determine which one you train. After a while, the novelty would wear and probably just stick to one pair of shoes for a serious hunt, but you'd be left with the nuisance of having to remember to change into the right kind of shoes every time you train just because the skills exist.
Ha. I remember when they split Primary Magic and an actual development argument was that people would diversify their strengths and weaknesses in magic. It was like, are you crazy? People will just shuffle spells. This is the game DR is right now: the only development is new and less interesting ways to grind.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
ALLIZAR2012
Re: Development update request
04/17/2016 12:32 PM CDT
I would still end up training pretty much everything, because I am in a combat guild that relies on tertiary defenses(evasion). Most guilds really learn combat at a tertiary rate because there is always some important tertiary defense or skill that is dragging well behind the others. I would rather train extra weapons than sit there and wait for that one tertiary skill to tick upwards so I could move to the next critter. At least I'm currently rewarded with bonus stats for this process which speeds it up a bit.
