Previous
I've just pushed some tweaks to EXP for shoplifting into Test. If you get some time, please take the time to try it out.
Change include:
- General increase in the target difficulty of an item. This did not change the triviality rank, just made the target difficulty for optimal learning a little higher
- General decrease in the chance to get caught
- Decreased the repeat steal penalty, mostly on the upper ends
- Switched the method of determining how much EXP is granted (this should be a general boost)
Please take a look, and let me know how things look across skill levels. Are you still stealing far too many things, or is it going too fast now? Are you getting caught too much, or never?
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
DR-JAVAC
GABRIEL4
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/13/2016 09:40 PM CDT
Typo discovered while testing to see if water still had newbie protection (which it still appears to have, including if using either 'steal water' or 'steal water in vat').
HR>
Learned: Stealth
skill thieve
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Thievery: 0 00.00% clear (0/34)
Time Development Points: 311 Favors: 0 Deaths: 0 Departs: 0
Overall state of mind: clear
EXP HELP for more information
H> steal water in vat
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab some water right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learning exceptionally well from this nearly impossible theft.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
HR>
Learned: Stealth
steal water
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab some water right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learning exceptionally well from this nearly impossible theft.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
The typo is that it's you're not you.
THIRESDR
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/13/2016 09:45 PM CDT
I like the messages when the item is stolen.
I didn't have to leave the Crossing to get to mind locked with mainly stealing 1 of each item in my list for there.
Certain things were confusing, like
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing a chasuble.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it would be taking candy from a baby.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a chasuble right from underneath the Brother Durantine's very nose.
You learned rather well from this difficult theft.
Then this...
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing an old and bloody cloth bandage pinned together with a small cambrinth sewing needle.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should not prove difficult for you.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a cambrinth needle right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
That being said, I like this kind of setup.
SEND[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
SEND[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
I didn't have to leave the Crossing to get to mind locked with mainly stealing 1 of each item in my list for there.
Certain things were confusing, like
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing a chasuble.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it would be taking candy from a baby.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a chasuble right from underneath the Brother Durantine's very nose.
You learned rather well from this difficult theft.
Then this...
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing an old and bloody cloth bandage pinned together with a small cambrinth sewing needle.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should not prove difficult for you.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a cambrinth needle right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
That being said, I like this kind of setup.
SEND[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
SEND[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
GABRIEL4
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/13/2016 09:45 PM CDT
Here's my basic data point.
I was able to steal 11 water with 0 ranks from Chizili's before getting the message about being watched and backing off, and this got me to 20/34. I don't have the exact timeframe this took because I spent some time posting the above bug, but based on the RT of stealing twice and hiding once every 2 items stolen it would take about 2 minutes to do that.
I was able to steal 11 water with 0 ranks from Chizili's before getting the message about being watched and backing off, and this got me to 20/34. I don't have the exact timeframe this took because I spent some time posting the above bug, but based on the RT of stealing twice and hiding once every 2 items stolen it would take about 2 minutes to do that.
BADGOPHER
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/13/2016 10:07 PM CDT
Both stoves and cutlass' mark as 'more likely liftable than not', and when stolen give the 'you've learned quite badly from the nearly trivial theft' message.
Silver vials mark as easy and give the 'acceptable' steal.
Basically anything that's difficult to grab as far as mark is concerned seems to teach very badly.
Stealing things that messaged as 'you learned somewhat poorly from this simple theft' gave roughly 2 mindstates. Stealing things which messaged as 'you've learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft' gave 1-2. Note that the items in the latter category are the more difficult ones, for some reason?
I went through my normal routine. I was at 30/34 about 4/5 through it. The only item I found which messaged 'positively' on steal was silver vials.
I emailed you my general Crossings list at one point Javac, as well as my stats/etc. so you can probably just compare that data directly without me reposting it all here.
Overall, it already looks like a vast improvement. I think it'll get even better once the goofy gets ironed out.
Silver vials mark as easy and give the 'acceptable' steal.
Basically anything that's difficult to grab as far as mark is concerned seems to teach very badly.
Stealing things that messaged as 'you learned somewhat poorly from this simple theft' gave roughly 2 mindstates. Stealing things which messaged as 'you've learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft' gave 1-2. Note that the items in the latter category are the more difficult ones, for some reason?
I went through my normal routine. I was at 30/34 about 4/5 through it. The only item I found which messaged 'positively' on steal was silver vials.
I emailed you my general Crossings list at one point Javac, as well as my stats/etc. so you can probably just compare that data directly without me reposting it all here.
Overall, it already looks like a vast improvement. I think it'll get even better once the goofy gets ironed out.
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/13/2016 10:57 PM CDT
I was dividing the wrong direction, so the messaging was super backwards. Please give it another try and see if the messaging makes more sense now.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/13/2016 11:05 PM CDT
I also just found an issue with people getting caught far less often than they should. I didn't mean to reduce it that far, so please try some runs to see how the frequency of getting caught is.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
THIRESDR
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/13/2016 11:54 PM CDT
Certainly getting caught more often. On a run I was nabbed 10 times, where I would not even have been.
Seems to happen more so on items you steal more than once. You are pretty much guaranteed to be caught then.
That is on easy items too.
The messages are still a little out of whack.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should be an easy target for you.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a belled jester's hat right from underneath the weaver Sinysa's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should not prove difficult for you.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a lever-drawn light crossbow right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it would be stealable even with your eyes closed.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a rugged jerkin right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
SEND[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
SEND[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
Seems to happen more so on items you steal more than once. You are pretty much guaranteed to be caught then.
That is on easy items too.
The messages are still a little out of whack.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should be an easy target for you.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a belled jester's hat right from underneath the weaver Sinysa's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should not prove difficult for you.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a lever-drawn light crossbow right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it would be stealable even with your eyes closed.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a rugged jerkin right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
SEND[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
SEND[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 12:05 AM CDT
Grumble grumble order of operations grumble grumble...
I should not make changes late at night. Can you try again? I tweaked it again (hopefully correctly this time).
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
I should not make changes late at night. Can you try again? I tweaked it again (hopefully correctly this time).
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
THIRESDR
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 12:33 AM CDT
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should not prove difficult for you.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a mahogany bodhran right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
A sales clerk notices you attempting to make the grab and begins to shout for help.
First attempt on that.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should be trivial for one of your skills.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a spiked mace right from underneath Othien Ironhill's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
Othien Ironhill notices you attempting to make the grab and begins to shout for help.
First attempt on that.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it would be taking candy from a baby.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a hooded cloak right from underneath Ahnglor Tinrael's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
Ahnglor Tinrael notices you attempting to make the grab and begins to shout for help.
Second attempt on that one.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it would be stealable even with your eyes closed.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a steel-rimmed monocle right from underneath the merchant Rufus's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
The merchant Rufus notices you attempting to make the grab and begins to shout for help.
First attempt on that.
Still seems a little too sensitive. Looking good though.
Caught around half the amount on this run.
SEND[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
SEND[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a mahogany bodhran right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
A sales clerk notices you attempting to make the grab and begins to shout for help.
First attempt on that.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should be trivial for one of your skills.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a spiked mace right from underneath Othien Ironhill's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
Othien Ironhill notices you attempting to make the grab and begins to shout for help.
First attempt on that.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it would be taking candy from a baby.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a hooded cloak right from underneath Ahnglor Tinrael's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
Ahnglor Tinrael notices you attempting to make the grab and begins to shout for help.
Second attempt on that one.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it would be stealable even with your eyes closed.
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a steel-rimmed monocle right from underneath the merchant Rufus's very nose.
You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
The merchant Rufus notices you attempting to make the grab and begins to shout for help.
First attempt on that.
Still seems a little too sensitive. Looking good though.
Caught around half the amount on this run.
SEND[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
SEND[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 01:22 AM CDT
Made a couple more tweaks...
- Mark is now updated to consider these changes
- Difficulty of stealing individual items went up the same amount its target difficulty for EXP did
- Messaging difficulty should actually be correct now. Forgot to talk about this in the initial post, but it's to help non-guilded thieves understand where they are relative to that item.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
- Mark is now updated to consider these changes
- Difficulty of stealing individual items went up the same amount its target difficulty for EXP did
- Messaging difficulty should actually be correct now. Forgot to talk about this in the initial post, but it's to help non-guilded thieves understand where they are relative to that item.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
THIRESDR
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 01:27 AM CDT
Might want to change the message so it is like the rest, You learning exceptionally well from this nearly impossible theft. to You learned exceptionally well
The other 6 are all You learned, that is the only learning one.
SEND[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
SEND[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
The other 6 are all You learned, that is the only learning one.
SEND[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
SEND[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
THAYET
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 01:45 AM CDT
For giggles, I ran the infamous progressive stealing script to see how it compares now. In Test I have 138 Thievery, 394 Stealth, and I'm using Obfuscation and Eyes of the Blind.
I hit 10 shops and stole 22 items before locking which is much, much faster (to the tune of like 3-4 minutes) and I didn't even have to cut over to Crossing -- though relatively speaking the Stealth exp was very anemic, which I wish wasn't the case. I ended up getting caught twice before I locked my Thievery. These are the items I got caught on:
1st grab:
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a cotton rag right from underneath the True Bard Barley Bulrush's very nose.
You learned somewhat poorly from this simple theft.
The True Bard Barley Bulrush points to where you lie concealed and begins to shout loudly for help.
You come out of hiding.
You fade to visibility.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
3rd grab (expected, also can't hide here, not sure if that matters if I'm invisible):
I> steal wayfarer cheese
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a wax-covered wayfarer cheese right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned rather well from this difficult theft.
A sales clerk points to where you lie concealed and begins to shout loudly for help.
You fade to visibility.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
Because I'm not hitting literally every shop in the city, I can also go back and re-lock it once it drains a bit without waiting for all my timers to expire which is great. I also LOVE the difficulty line. It was SO hard to figure out what was teaching well or what was just borderline or what was too hard if you didn't have MARK. Thank you for adding that.
I'll have to do more runs on my own later without leaning on the script so I'm not grabbing those more difficult items and see how much I get caught then.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
I hit 10 shops and stole 22 items before locking which is much, much faster (to the tune of like 3-4 minutes) and I didn't even have to cut over to Crossing -- though relatively speaking the Stealth exp was very anemic, which I wish wasn't the case. I ended up getting caught twice before I locked my Thievery. These are the items I got caught on:
1st grab:
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a cotton rag right from underneath the True Bard Barley Bulrush's very nose.
You learned somewhat poorly from this simple theft.
The True Bard Barley Bulrush points to where you lie concealed and begins to shout loudly for help.
You come out of hiding.
You fade to visibility.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
3rd grab (expected, also can't hide here, not sure if that matters if I'm invisible):
I> steal wayfarer cheese
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a wax-covered wayfarer cheese right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned rather well from this difficult theft.
A sales clerk points to where you lie concealed and begins to shout loudly for help.
You fade to visibility.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
Because I'm not hitting literally every shop in the city, I can also go back and re-lock it once it drains a bit without waiting for all my timers to expire which is great. I also LOVE the difficulty line. It was SO hard to figure out what was teaching well or what was just borderline or what was too hard if you didn't have MARK. Thank you for adding that.
I'll have to do more runs on my own later without leaning on the script so I'm not grabbing those more difficult items and see how much I get caught then.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
FENRUS-KOR
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 03:08 AM CDT
After a non-scientific first run in Crossing & Arthe, I'm definitely bagging more experience overall. In the ballpark of 2x more than usual. I did get caught more than usual as well, but I think that was due to my timer not being all the way run down when I entered Test.
Some messaging does seem inaccurate:
(Starting at 0/34 after hugging an orb)
> steal greataxe
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a double-bit greataxe right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned very well from this extremely difficult theft.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>steal greataxe
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a double-bit greataxe right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned very well from this extremely difficult theft.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
skill thievery
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Thievery: XXX 42.34% thoughtful (4/34)
2 grabs messaging "very well" learning gets 4 pulses of EXP, seems about right!
But later:
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Thievery: XXX 44.69% cogitating (24/34)
>steal anlibues cheese
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a wax-covered anlibues cheese right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned somewhat poorly from this simple theft.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>steal anlibues cheese
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a wax-covered anlibues cheese right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned somewhat poorly from this simple theft.
A sales clerk notices you attempting to make the grab and begins to shout for help.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>skill thievery
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Thievery: XXX 44.69% riveted (28/34)
Two grabs that messaged "somewhat poorly" also equated to 4 pulses worth of EXP, which sounds rather great to me as far as learning goes!
Some messaging does seem inaccurate:
(Starting at 0/34 after hugging an orb)
> steal greataxe
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a double-bit greataxe right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned very well from this extremely difficult theft.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>steal greataxe
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a double-bit greataxe right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned very well from this extremely difficult theft.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
skill thievery
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Thievery: XXX 42.34% thoughtful (4/34)
2 grabs messaging "very well" learning gets 4 pulses of EXP, seems about right!
But later:
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Thievery: XXX 44.69% cogitating (24/34)
>steal anlibues cheese
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a wax-covered anlibues cheese right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned somewhat poorly from this simple theft.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
>steal anlibues cheese
Moving nonchalantly, you manage to grab a wax-covered anlibues cheese right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
You learned somewhat poorly from this simple theft.
A sales clerk notices you attempting to make the grab and begins to shout for help.
Roundtime: 8 sec.
>skill thievery
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Thievery: XXX 44.69% riveted (28/34)
Two grabs that messaged "somewhat poorly" also equated to 4 pulses worth of EXP, which sounds rather great to me as far as learning goes!
BADGOPHER
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 08:09 AM CDT
>Difficulty of stealing individual items went up the same amount its target difficulty for EXP did
Could you expand on this a bit? You mentioned it in your original post but I didn't quite catch it then either. Has stealing 1 item gone up in difficulty across the board? But all stealing now rewards more exp per theft?
>Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a cotton rag right from underneath the True Bard Barley Bulrush's very nose.
For whatever reason the True Bard NPCs seem to have some stupidly high perception, and in general behave very strangely for Stealth. I assume it's because they're actual NPCs rather than being 'generic shop owners' in the room description. So while your 100+ stealing was probably just a snake-eyes issue, I think there's something odd there anyway. I think I usually need 30-50 ranks in hiding to hide in the Crossings music shop.
Could you expand on this a bit? You mentioned it in your original post but I didn't quite catch it then either. Has stealing 1 item gone up in difficulty across the board? But all stealing now rewards more exp per theft?
>Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a cotton rag right from underneath the True Bard Barley Bulrush's very nose.
For whatever reason the True Bard NPCs seem to have some stupidly high perception, and in general behave very strangely for Stealth. I assume it's because they're actual NPCs rather than being 'generic shop owners' in the room description. So while your 100+ stealing was probably just a snake-eyes issue, I think there's something odd there anyway. I think I usually need 30-50 ranks in hiding to hide in the Crossings music shop.
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 08:27 AM CDT
>You learning
Fixed now, thanks.
>For giggles, I ran the infamous progressive stealing script to see how it compares now.
Like I said, I adjusted what the "target difficulty" is to be higher. This means things should teach better, but it also means if you're below it you might get caught more. Because I also adjusted how often you're caught, you might not get caught more depending on how far below it you are.
>though relatively speaking the Stealth exp was very anemic
>In Test I have 138 Thievery, 394 Stealth
Your stealth uses the same difficulty as your Thievery to determine how much you learn. Things that are at level for your Thievery are way below your Stealth.
>Two grabs that messaged "somewhat poorly" also equated to 4 pulses worth of EXP, which sounds rather great to me as far as learning goes!
Without more info, like your actual skill and being able to see the item, it's hard to say what the numbers involved were. I'll take a look, the ranges almost certainly need tweaked a bit, which is why it's in Test.
Many thanks to everyone testing this. It saves me a lot of time. And if there's info you don't feel comfortable sharing here, you can always e-mail it to me directly at DR-JAVAC@PLAY.NET.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Fixed now, thanks.
>For giggles, I ran the infamous progressive stealing script to see how it compares now.
Like I said, I adjusted what the "target difficulty" is to be higher. This means things should teach better, but it also means if you're below it you might get caught more. Because I also adjusted how often you're caught, you might not get caught more depending on how far below it you are.
>though relatively speaking the Stealth exp was very anemic
>In Test I have 138 Thievery, 394 Stealth
Your stealth uses the same difficulty as your Thievery to determine how much you learn. Things that are at level for your Thievery are way below your Stealth.
>Two grabs that messaged "somewhat poorly" also equated to 4 pulses worth of EXP, which sounds rather great to me as far as learning goes!
Without more info, like your actual skill and being able to see the item, it's hard to say what the numbers involved were. I'll take a look, the ranges almost certainly need tweaked a bit, which is why it's in Test.
Many thanks to everyone testing this. It saves me a lot of time. And if there's info you don't feel comfortable sharing here, you can always e-mail it to me directly at DR-JAVAC@PLAY.NET.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
THAYET
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 08:32 AM CDT
>> Your stealth uses the same difficulty as your Thievery to determine how much you learn. Things that are at level for your Thievery are way below your Stealth.
I suppose that's fair, but sad, since there isn't really a feasible way for me to catch my Thievery ranks up to my Stealth at this point. I suppose I'm not sure why learning for both can't be based on the final difficulty of the grab though; I'm still risking getting caught, paying fines, etc that way, right?
An aside: after playing with it, I have to kind of wonder if the Thievery experience was tweaked too high, as I really am locking in like 3-4 minutes. But I'd give more weight to those with more than a handful of Thievery ranks.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
I suppose that's fair, but sad, since there isn't really a feasible way for me to catch my Thievery ranks up to my Stealth at this point. I suppose I'm not sure why learning for both can't be based on the final difficulty of the grab though; I'm still risking getting caught, paying fines, etc that way, right?
An aside: after playing with it, I have to kind of wonder if the Thievery experience was tweaked too high, as I really am locking in like 3-4 minutes. But I'd give more weight to those with more than a handful of Thievery ranks.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 08:36 AM CDT
>Could you expand on this a bit?
What the system considers "at-level" has changed. It has increased for most, if not all, items. This means that all of those items will teach better than they used to. However, if you stick with your old routine, it is possible (likely?) you'll get caught stealing something that has jumped to above you. However, I also reduced the risk of getting caught for "at-level" things, so it's possible the change isn't as noticable, depending on the specific items and skill levels involved.
>For whatever reason the True Bard NPCs seem to have some stupidly high perception
I didn't modify the NPC stats work. I'd have to double check if they even act differently or not, because I only glanced over that code.
>So while your 100+ stealing was probably just a snake-eyes issue
There is still a snake-eyes built in. Can you give some more info on why you think there's something odd going on? One attempt isn't really enough info.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
What the system considers "at-level" has changed. It has increased for most, if not all, items. This means that all of those items will teach better than they used to. However, if you stick with your old routine, it is possible (likely?) you'll get caught stealing something that has jumped to above you. However, I also reduced the risk of getting caught for "at-level" things, so it's possible the change isn't as noticable, depending on the specific items and skill levels involved.
>For whatever reason the True Bard NPCs seem to have some stupidly high perception
I didn't modify the NPC stats work. I'd have to double check if they even act differently or not, because I only glanced over that code.
>So while your 100+ stealing was probably just a snake-eyes issue
There is still a snake-eyes built in. Can you give some more info on why you think there's something odd going on? One attempt isn't really enough info.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
BADGOPHER
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 10:28 AM CDT
>I didn't modify the NPC stats work. I'd have to double check if they even act differently or not, because I only glanced over that code.
I didn't mean to imply you had, sorry. I was just mentioning, for those who might not know, that since the bard shops have actual NPCs they tend to be harder. Not 'fail stealing a rag at 100+ ranks' harder, mind.
I didn't mean to imply you had, sorry. I was just mentioning, for those who might not know, that since the bard shops have actual NPCs they tend to be harder. Not 'fail stealing a rag at 100+ ranks' harder, mind.
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 11:19 AM CDT
>I didn't mean to imply you had, sorry.
No need to apologize, I was just saying I'm not super familiar with how NPCs work here.
>Not 'fail stealing a rag at 100+ ranks' harder, mind.
This was probably a snake eyes. Snake eyes are pretty unlikely, but they do happen.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
No need to apologize, I was just saying I'm not super familiar with how NPCs work here.
>Not 'fail stealing a rag at 100+ ranks' harder, mind.
This was probably a snake eyes. Snake eyes are pretty unlikely, but they do happen.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
DEFOL
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 12:38 PM CDT
So, this happened.
>steal gold anklet
You notice a appraiser watching you very closely right now, and you decide to wait a while before trying again.
>steal gold anklet
A appraiser is giving you fishy looks. You decide not to risk it right now.
>steal gold anklet
A appraiser looks to the side and gives a meaningful nod; you snicker as a motherly Halfling comes from behind the counter, but she pushes you from where you're hidden and kicks you just below the knee, dropping you to the floor in sudden agony. The silver-haired old lady curtsies to a appraiser and goes back behind the counter.
>
Your wooden wristcuff warms in response to your danger. A dark glow radiates from the piece, completely enveloping and concealing you from view.
>stand
You are still stunned.
I have a couple of followup questions. What does this mean exactly? It seems like im able to only take one those items in that particular shop. Is there some kind of a timer involved in this or a hard item limit of some sort?
>steal gold anklet
You notice a appraiser watching you very closely right now, and you decide to wait a while before trying again.
>steal gold anklet
A appraiser is giving you fishy looks. You decide not to risk it right now.
>steal gold anklet
A appraiser looks to the side and gives a meaningful nod; you snicker as a motherly Halfling comes from behind the counter, but she pushes you from where you're hidden and kicks you just below the knee, dropping you to the floor in sudden agony. The silver-haired old lady curtsies to a appraiser and goes back behind the counter.
>
Your wooden wristcuff warms in response to your danger. A dark glow radiates from the piece, completely enveloping and concealing you from view.
>stand
You are still stunned.
I have a couple of followup questions. What does this mean exactly? It seems like im able to only take one those items in that particular shop. Is there some kind of a timer involved in this or a hard item limit of some sort?
FENRUS-KOR
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 02:31 PM CDT
<<>Two grabs that messaged "somewhat poorly" also equated to 4 pulses worth of EXP, which sounds rather great to me as far as learning goes!
<Without more info, like your actual skill and being able to see the item, it's hard to say what the numbers involved were. I'll take a look, the ranges almost certainly need tweaked a bit, which is why it's in Test.
Thievery is at 404, the items that gave the messaging for "You learned very well from this extremely difficult theft" were 2 double-bit greataxes from Crossing Milgrym's, and the items that gave the messaging "You learned somewhat poorly from this simple theft." were 2 anlibues cheeses from Arthe Dale Feta's Kitchen. Each shop gave 4 pulses of exp total.
<Without more info, like your actual skill and being able to see the item, it's hard to say what the numbers involved were. I'll take a look, the ranges almost certainly need tweaked a bit, which is why it's in Test.
Thievery is at 404, the items that gave the messaging for "You learned very well from this extremely difficult theft" were 2 double-bit greataxes from Crossing Milgrym's, and the items that gave the messaging "You learned somewhat poorly from this simple theft." were 2 anlibues cheeses from Arthe Dale Feta's Kitchen. Each shop gave 4 pulses of exp total.
DEFOL
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 03:57 PM CDT
Having to wait out timers didn't make it easy for repeat testing but i think i managed to get the gist of it in a few runs already. It seems like the new sweet spot is 2 or 3 items in the "even odds" range, which equates to around 4/34 per and 8 shops to lock.
I hate to be that guy, but the time to lock seems a bit too generous now? I didn't manage to find perfectly fitting items in every shop but i was still able to max out exp in around 10-12 shops and in a 6 minute time frame. For someone who hasn't surpassed as many shops as i have, it should be even faster. I'll probably do some more testing but it definitely feels like the fastest achieved lock compared to any other skill that i know of.
I know that all of this was done towards easing the training process but with the increased item difficulty i'm afraid the money earned is going to be even less than it is now. At some point people will have to pay more money on fines than they earn from pawning and they will complain about it, so .. might as well do it now. It there anything that could be done to help the situation with the earnings a little bit as well?
I hate to be that guy, but the time to lock seems a bit too generous now? I didn't manage to find perfectly fitting items in every shop but i was still able to max out exp in around 10-12 shops and in a 6 minute time frame. For someone who hasn't surpassed as many shops as i have, it should be even faster. I'll probably do some more testing but it definitely feels like the fastest achieved lock compared to any other skill that i know of.
I know that all of this was done towards easing the training process but with the increased item difficulty i'm afraid the money earned is going to be even less than it is now. At some point people will have to pay more money on fines than they earn from pawning and they will complain about it, so .. might as well do it now. It there anything that could be done to help the situation with the earnings a little bit as well?
BADGOPHER
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 04:26 PM CDT
>I hate to be that guy, but the time to lock seems a bit too generous now?
At minimal 7 seconds per steal (2 second hide, 5 second theft) 2-3 items per shop would be about 21 seconds per shop, and 8 shops would be 168 seconds? Even if we bump it to 4 minutes to include travel time, as a thief player, that's...probably too quick. I think the game generally aims for 5 minutes to lock? Or however magic research was set up.
At minimal 7 seconds per steal (2 second hide, 5 second theft) 2-3 items per shop would be about 21 seconds per shop, and 8 shops would be 168 seconds? Even if we bump it to 4 minutes to include travel time, as a thief player, that's...probably too quick. I think the game generally aims for 5 minutes to lock? Or however magic research was set up.
GABRIEL4
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 04:33 PM CDT
<<I think the game generally aims for 5 minutes to lock?
I believe 10 minutes is the general aim for active use. Set and forget like research is generally about 15. Anything quicker than 5 is considered too fast and in need of scaling back. Anything more than 20 minutes is considered too slow unless it's not the primary experience generator such as with weapon skill gain from parrying an attack.
I believe 10 minutes is the general aim for active use. Set and forget like research is generally about 15. Anything quicker than 5 is considered too fast and in need of scaling back. Anything more than 20 minutes is considered too slow unless it's not the primary experience generator such as with weapon skill gain from parrying an attack.
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 06:18 PM CDT
>that's...probably too quick.
Yeah, that's a bit faster than I'd like. I'd like it to be somewhere between 10 minutes is the target if you're stealing at level. Faster/slower for above/below that.
I've adjusted it fairly significantly. Let me know if that's too far, or if that puts us around the 10 minute mark now.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Yeah, that's a bit faster than I'd like. I'd like it to be somewhere between 10 minutes is the target if you're stealing at level. Faster/slower for above/below that.
I've adjusted it fairly significantly. Let me know if that's too far, or if that puts us around the 10 minute mark now.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
THAYET
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 06:28 PM CDT
I'll hop in to test again shortly, but I'll point out that it's a tough balance because less experience per item also means you run out of shops faster, which means we'd be right back to where we started.
Maybe stealing could just...take longer? I'm not sure that's a great solution, heh.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
Maybe stealing could just...take longer? I'm not sure that's a great solution, heh.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 06:55 PM CDT
>Thievery is at 404... 2 anlibues cheeses from Arthe Dale Feta's Kitchen
Ha! You let me track down the worst bug yet. Congratulations! If it taught, it was always teaching the same amount. This is now fixed.
>Maybe stealing could just...take longer?
If my latest adjustments seem too bad, I may have to bump the RT up a little so I can increase the experience per item. It's not a great solution, but I'd rather people not run out of stuff they can steal.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Ha! You let me track down the worst bug yet. Congratulations! If it taught, it was always teaching the same amount. This is now fixed.
>Maybe stealing could just...take longer?
If my latest adjustments seem too bad, I may have to bump the RT up a little so I can increase the experience per item. It's not a great solution, but I'd rather people not run out of stuff they can steal.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
BADGOPHER
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 07:04 PM CDT
Is there any chance we can get some sort of timer-wipe command for stealing testing?
I'm happy to help, but I'm not really willing to park my character in the test environment for an hour, since I can't be logged into prime concurrently.
If you aren't aware, the stealing timer only decays while you're logged in.
I'm happy to help, but I'm not really willing to park my character in the test environment for an hour, since I can't be logged into prime concurrently.
If you aren't aware, the stealing timer only decays while you're logged in.
ERENIOS3
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 07:07 PM CDT
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing a simple talisman.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it may be troublesome to lift.
Regarding getting away with the theft, perhaps it's a little risky.
You feel highly confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
You learned rather well from this difficult theft. x3 steals
Thievery: 271 08% learning (3/34)
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing a mandolin.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it may give you some difficulty to lift.
Regarding getting away with the theft, perhaps it's a little risky.
You've stolen in this store recently, and are pretty certain the True Bard Malik is looking for a reason to call the guards.
You feel highly confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
You learned acceptably from this theft. x2 steals
Thievery: 271 10% learning (3/34)
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing a gittern.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it may be quite the struggle to nab.
Regarding getting away with the theft, it's somewhat of a long shot.
You feel somewhat confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
You think that sizing up any additional items may cause the shopkeep to take unwanted notice of you.
You learned very well from this extremely difficult theft. x1 - caught on 1st steal
Thievery: 271 10% thoughtful (4/34)
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing a dress.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should be more likely liftable than not.
Regarding getting away with the theft, perhaps it's a little risky.
You feel highly confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
You learned acceptably from this theft. x4 - caught on 4th steal
Thievery: 271 14% thoughtful (4/34)
I know much of the data is relative to my character's stats, but the tweaks seem like a nice modest increase to how much we learn per attempt. I would've liked to have run the progressive stealing script, but I couldn't log into test under Stormfront. I imagine it would take me at most 34 nabs to get to mindlock or about 10 shops. This is assuming I don't have to steal less risky items which would increase the number of attempts and shops.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it may be troublesome to lift.
Regarding getting away with the theft, perhaps it's a little risky.
You feel highly confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
You learned rather well from this difficult theft. x3 steals
Thievery: 271 08% learning (3/34)
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing a mandolin.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it may give you some difficulty to lift.
Regarding getting away with the theft, perhaps it's a little risky.
You've stolen in this store recently, and are pretty certain the True Bard Malik is looking for a reason to call the guards.
You feel highly confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
You learned acceptably from this theft. x2 steals
Thievery: 271 10% learning (3/34)
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing a gittern.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it may be quite the struggle to nab.
Regarding getting away with the theft, it's somewhat of a long shot.
You feel somewhat confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
You think that sizing up any additional items may cause the shopkeep to take unwanted notice of you.
You learned very well from this extremely difficult theft. x1 - caught on 1st steal
Thievery: 271 10% thoughtful (4/34)
You begin to carefully size up your chances at nabbing a dress.
Considering actually grabbing the item, it should be more likely liftable than not.
Regarding getting away with the theft, perhaps it's a little risky.
You feel highly confident in the accuracy of your judgement.
You learned acceptably from this theft. x4 - caught on 4th steal
Thievery: 271 14% thoughtful (4/34)
I know much of the data is relative to my character's stats, but the tweaks seem like a nice modest increase to how much we learn per attempt. I would've liked to have run the progressive stealing script, but I couldn't log into test under Stormfront. I imagine it would take me at most 34 nabs to get to mindlock or about 10 shops. This is assuming I don't have to steal less risky items which would increase the number of attempts and shops.
HEATHCHRISTINE
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 09:02 PM CDT
Using exactly same items as my normal script
Used to lock - 60+ items
Test - 39 items
Used to steal in - crossing, knife, wolf, tiger, arthe, leth, shard, horse, hib, boar
Test - locked while in shard
Used to take ~ 35 minutes
Test - 16 minutes (including 2 jail times).
I got caught 6 times (only on extremely difficult items) and got arrested twice. I"m sure with tweaking I could turn this into a ~ 12 minutes not getting caught often script. most of my items were "acceptably" teaching and i could grab those twice.
I think the biggest problem with timing and balancing is that at low ranks, you can get all your training in one place. Once you get to higher ranks, you're adding a lot of travel time. The higher your ranks, the more towns you need to hit to get enough shops because you start capping them out. Its like if at 200 ranks of evasion you could train to locked in crossing, but at 300 you had to train in crossing, then go to leth, then go to shard. This isn't an issue with the way thievery is written, but the availability of items/shops.
Also I second for a Test only verb to wipe timer.
Jalika
Used to lock - 60+ items
Test - 39 items
Used to steal in - crossing, knife, wolf, tiger, arthe, leth, shard, horse, hib, boar
Test - locked while in shard
Used to take ~ 35 minutes
Test - 16 minutes (including 2 jail times).
I got caught 6 times (only on extremely difficult items) and got arrested twice. I"m sure with tweaking I could turn this into a ~ 12 minutes not getting caught often script. most of my items were "acceptably" teaching and i could grab those twice.
I think the biggest problem with timing and balancing is that at low ranks, you can get all your training in one place. Once you get to higher ranks, you're adding a lot of travel time. The higher your ranks, the more towns you need to hit to get enough shops because you start capping them out. Its like if at 200 ranks of evasion you could train to locked in crossing, but at 300 you had to train in crossing, then go to leth, then go to shard. This isn't an issue with the way thievery is written, but the availability of items/shops.
Also I second for a Test only verb to wipe timer.
Jalika
MAGE-WARRIOR
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 09:44 PM CDT
I'll say that I like the new messages about how difficult the items are for non-Thieves. Exp gains seem to be way on the low side. Only one grab I made earned me more than one mind state bump. I seemed to learn just as well from very easy as I did from very hard grabs.
Very limited testing:
Starting with a level 23 Ranger. 0 Thievery, 73 Stealth with his personal cap of Earth Meld up (30 mana into the spell)
Stole 6 waters from Crossing Alchemist:
Never caught
1/34 exp gain each grab
Theft message: You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
Stole 4 bundling ropes from Berolt's in Crossing:
Never caught
1/34 exp gain each grab
Theft message: You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
(Ranked to 2 Thievery here)
Stole 3 iris from Orileda's in Crossing:
Never caught, watching on 4th attempt
1/34 exp gain each grab
Theft message: You learned rather well from this difficult theft.
(Ranked to 3 Thievery here)
Stole 3 small grey-brown feather from Durantine's in Crossing:
Never caught, watching on 4th attempt
1/34 on first two grabs, 2/34 on third grab
Theft message: You learned exceptionally well from this nearly impossible theft.
Stole 3 dried meat from Grek's in Kaerna:
Caught on 4th grab
1/34 exp gain on each grab
Theft Message: You learned very well from this extremely difficult theft.
Very limited testing:
Starting with a level 23 Ranger. 0 Thievery, 73 Stealth with his personal cap of Earth Meld up (30 mana into the spell)
Stole 6 waters from Crossing Alchemist:
Never caught
1/34 exp gain each grab
Theft message: You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
Stole 4 bundling ropes from Berolt's in Crossing:
Never caught
1/34 exp gain each grab
Theft message: You learned quite badly from this nearly trivial theft.
(Ranked to 2 Thievery here)
Stole 3 iris from Orileda's in Crossing:
Never caught, watching on 4th attempt
1/34 exp gain each grab
Theft message: You learned rather well from this difficult theft.
(Ranked to 3 Thievery here)
Stole 3 small grey-brown feather from Durantine's in Crossing:
Never caught, watching on 4th attempt
1/34 on first two grabs, 2/34 on third grab
Theft message: You learned exceptionally well from this nearly impossible theft.
Stole 3 dried meat from Grek's in Kaerna:
Caught on 4th grab
1/34 exp gain on each grab
Theft Message: You learned very well from this extremely difficult theft.
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/14/2016 10:12 PM CDT
>0 Thievery, 73 Stealth
I've tweaked low levels a little bit. Should be a bit nicer now.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
I've tweaked low levels a little bit. Should be a bit nicer now.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
SCHULTZS3
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/15/2016 01:16 AM CDT
>Snake eyes are pretty unlikely, but they do happen.
Still think they should be obliterated in the case of stealing trivial items with no shop suspicion.
Kaeta Airtag
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Still think they should be obliterated in the case of stealing trivial items with no shop suspicion.
Kaeta Airtag
"I have faith in the current crop of GMs to not screw people over"
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
THAYET
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/15/2016 01:17 AM CDT
You should be able to snake-eyes into a non-caught ("you quickly back off" etc) failure, but not a caught and charged one, IMO.
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com
"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs
DEFOL
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/15/2016 03:19 AM CDT
<< Using exactly same items as my normal script
You will have to readjust most of your item now due to new difficulty ratings. Really no point in running with current lists. In some cases i reverted back to items that i was using maybe 400-500 ranks ago.
You will have to readjust most of your item now due to new difficulty ratings. Really no point in running with current lists. In some cases i reverted back to items that i was using maybe 400-500 ranks ago.
HEATHCHRISTINE
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/15/2016 08:41 AM CDT
>You will have to readjust most of your item now due to new difficulty ratings. Really no point in running with current lists.
Which is why i mentioned I would tweak for run 2. The point is to compare the two systems and have a baseline for comparison.
Jalika
DEFOL
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/15/2016 10:16 AM CDT
<< If my latest adjustments seem too bad, I may have to bump the RT up a little so I can increase the experience per item. It's not a great solution, but I'd rather people not run out of stuff they can steal.
I don't think adjusting exp alone will ever work because it's already possible to lock within 10 minutes for some of us (in current live). The only thing setting people apart is the time spent moving between shops, which can vary, a lot.
Also while the changes in difficulty rating are helping with the exp in general, it's the triviality ranks that's causing the item selection to thin out at the upper end. So we're not actually getting more items now, we're just getting more exp out of the ones we already have in our disposal. If you're not having too many items to choose from the bump in exp wont do much good concerning long travel times.
I don't think adjusting exp alone will ever work because it's already possible to lock within 10 minutes for some of us (in current live). The only thing setting people apart is the time spent moving between shops, which can vary, a lot.
Also while the changes in difficulty rating are helping with the exp in general, it's the triviality ranks that's causing the item selection to thin out at the upper end. So we're not actually getting more items now, we're just getting more exp out of the ones we already have in our disposal. If you're not having too many items to choose from the bump in exp wont do much good concerning long travel times.
HEATHCHRISTINE
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/15/2016 10:28 AM CDT
I think Defol hit it on the head.
Jalika
HEATHCHRISTINE
Re: Shoplifting EXP Tweaks in Test
03/15/2016 10:31 AM CDT
And I should expand to say I think its looking close to good time wise at upper levels and too easy at lower levels. I'd think that the best thing would be to lower exp per item or add time per item, and increase availability of upper items in shops.
Javac - Thanks for the attention to this. I love the new messaging about difficulty and learning.
Jalika
