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I dodged Earthen Fury. A few seconds later, I typed Spell Active and spell 917 was in the list. Was I under an effect from the spell?
The ground beneath your feet begins to boil violently!
Craggy debris explodes from the ground beneath you!
[SMR result: 41 (Open d100: 37)]
You dodge out of the way!
You currently have the following active spells:
[snip]
917 ................................ 0:00:01
KARDIOS
KRAKII
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 10:11 AM CST
You dodged the first one... of six tries.
After the first few days of Earthen Fury, I have had more success (read as, "survival") from casts against me. I have also changed tactics, now frequently "peer"ing from room to room to see if there is already a giant there, and if there is (just one) having a VibChant loaded up before walking in, whereas if there are more than one going in with a renew of Disrupt cocked and loaded.
Fortunately, to date, I have still only landed Depression on innocent passersby who walk in between my peek-and-enter or during my enter-and-renew, rather than anything lethal. The couple of times Disrupt has seen them, they have warded me off.
But yeah, I'm still on "shoot first so they can't shoot me" mode.
After the first few days of Earthen Fury, I have had more success (read as, "survival") from casts against me. I have also changed tactics, now frequently "peer"ing from room to room to see if there is already a giant there, and if there is (just one) having a VibChant loaded up before walking in, whereas if there are more than one going in with a renew of Disrupt cocked and loaded.
Fortunately, to date, I have still only landed Depression on innocent passersby who walk in between my peek-and-enter or during my enter-and-renew, rather than anything lethal. The couple of times Disrupt has seen them, they have warded me off.
But yeah, I'm still on "shoot first so they can't shoot me" mode.
KARDIOS
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 10:32 AM CST
<< You dodged the first one... of six tries. >>
I thought the subsequent cycles apply only when the target is hit by the initial strike. I've never seen more than one SMR displayed.
I thought the subsequent cycles apply only when the target is hit by the initial strike. I've never seen more than one SMR displayed.
MESERARK
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 10:42 AM CST
Cycles continue even if the target is not hit by the first strike. If you move out of the room or kill the creature the cycles end.
DOUG
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 10:53 AM CST
>>I thought the subsequent cycles apply only when the target is hit by the initial strike. I've never seen more than one SMR displayed.
My understanding (only personal observations):
The initial cast causes an SMR result that may or may not hit the character.
If the initial cast does produce a 'hit' result, the second (and all subsequent) rounds get an automatic bonus based on EL:E
The bonus lasts on the second (and all subsequent) rounds until the target is both prone and stunned (one without the other only gets a part of the bonus)
If the target moves out of the immediate room of the caster, the SMR does not trigger
NB: This is a suspicion, but not directly observed: If the target / caster move into the same room again, the SMR will trigger (but I don't know if it starts over at 1 or if it continues as a 'subsequent' round)
>>If you move out of the room or kill the creature the cycles end.
I don't think this is accurate. I think the spell stays active for about 12 seconds (6 rounds of about 2 seconds each). I think it needs to, in order to do the 'subsequent round' calculations above - and is the reason why I have my suspicion above. I haven't really wanted to test that just yet, though.
Summary -
Initial cast (requires caster / target same room) - SMR and result
spell timer set 10
>loop
exit loop if spell timer 0
wait ~2 seconds
xx round (caster / target same room) - SMR (check if bonus added) and result
xx round (caster / target not in same room) No SMR check / no result
decrement spell timer 2
>iterate loop
end spell
Doug
My understanding (only personal observations):
The initial cast causes an SMR result that may or may not hit the character.
If the initial cast does produce a 'hit' result, the second (and all subsequent) rounds get an automatic bonus based on EL:E
The bonus lasts on the second (and all subsequent) rounds until the target is both prone and stunned (one without the other only gets a part of the bonus)
If the target moves out of the immediate room of the caster, the SMR does not trigger
NB: This is a suspicion, but not directly observed: If the target / caster move into the same room again, the SMR will trigger (but I don't know if it starts over at 1 or if it continues as a 'subsequent' round)
>>If you move out of the room or kill the creature the cycles end.
I don't think this is accurate. I think the spell stays active for about 12 seconds (6 rounds of about 2 seconds each). I think it needs to, in order to do the 'subsequent round' calculations above - and is the reason why I have my suspicion above. I haven't really wanted to test that just yet, though.
Summary -
Initial cast (requires caster / target same room) - SMR and result
spell timer set 10
>loop
exit loop if spell timer 0
wait ~2 seconds
xx round (caster / target same room) - SMR (check if bonus added) and result
xx round (caster / target not in same room) No SMR check / no result
decrement spell timer 2
>iterate loop
end spell
Doug
GS4-KONACON
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 11:04 AM CST
Nothing is intentionally being hidden about the way Earthen Fury (917) works (Except for SMR specifics that I can't disclose). Always ask if you have questions! :)
- There will always be six cycles, unless it is dispelled (It can be dispelled) or kills its target.
- If the target and caster are not in the same room, cycles continue but do not do damage.
- The decrease in damage of subsequent cycles is not dependent on whether the previous cycle hit or not, or even if the target was in the same room. For example, if you were in a separate room from the caster for cycles 2-5 and then in the same room for cycle 6, the damage dealt by that would deal 'cycle 6' damage if it hit.
- The bonus from Elemental Lore, Earth is always granted for cycles 2-6, regardless of whether previous cycles hit or missed.
- It shows up in SPELL ACTIVE to give you a rough idea of how much longer the spell will be following you around for.
Let me know if you see the spell acting differently than this or have any further questions. Like I said about, SMR details aside, I don't intend for anything about the way this spell works to be hidden information.
~ Konacon
- There will always be six cycles, unless it is dispelled (It can be dispelled) or kills its target.
- If the target and caster are not in the same room, cycles continue but do not do damage.
- The decrease in damage of subsequent cycles is not dependent on whether the previous cycle hit or not, or even if the target was in the same room. For example, if you were in a separate room from the caster for cycles 2-5 and then in the same room for cycle 6, the damage dealt by that would deal 'cycle 6' damage if it hit.
- The bonus from Elemental Lore, Earth is always granted for cycles 2-6, regardless of whether previous cycles hit or missed.
- It shows up in SPELL ACTIVE to give you a rough idea of how much longer the spell will be following you around for.
Let me know if you see the spell acting differently than this or have any further questions. Like I said about, SMR details aside, I don't intend for anything about the way this spell works to be hidden information.
~ Konacon
MESERARK
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 11:12 AM CST
Yeah, sorry Doug, my wording was poor. I was thinking along the same lines as you and it appears to be confirmed now.
DOUG
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 11:15 AM CST
No worries, MESERARK. I like that it drove confirmation!
And thanks for the info, Konacon. I wasn't looking forward to deed-dropping to confirm that subsequent bonus concept!
Doug
And thanks for the info, Konacon. I wasn't looking forward to deed-dropping to confirm that subsequent bonus concept!
Doug
KARDIOS
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 11:53 AM CST
Thanks for the answers. In my case, I killed the caster of 917 almost immediately after it cast, and then I killed another critter before typing Spell Active. It was showing up in Spell Active after the caster was dead. I did not get any SMR cycles except for the first one that I dodged.
GS4-KONACON
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 12:06 PM CST
> In my case, I killed the caster of 917 almost immediately after it cast... It was showing up in Spell Active after the caster was dead.
This should be fixed now!
~ Konacon
This should be fixed now!
~ Konacon
KRAKII
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 12:54 PM CST
"- There will always be six cycles, unless it is dispelled (It can be dispelled) or kills its target." -- Konacon, emphasis mine
This is useful, and new, information.
(Because I can totally hit an "oh-crap" macro to "incant 417\r" instead of trying to move a room away.)
Presumably it is Elemental, so Elemental Dispel/417 is the one of choice to hit it? Is it considered the "top" spell/first one hit, or do I take a chance on waxing my own Elemental Barrier with random crapshoot of EDispel?
However, I again note the harshness of trying to deal with this once you're tagged: if you get stunned on the first one, you have to spend a "break me free" action (before you can even try to Dispel it)... which probably comes with 3s of castRT. And you're about to get tagged again, in only two seconds, with the next cycle.
Even if you HAVE the tools to deal with any given step ("shout rally\r" and "incant 417\r" macros, in my case), you're still behind the curve simply by the spell effect firing 50% faster than the PC is allowed to get their actions in.
This is useful, and new, information.
(Because I can totally hit an "oh-crap" macro to "incant 417\r" instead of trying to move a room away.)
Presumably it is Elemental, so Elemental Dispel/417 is the one of choice to hit it? Is it considered the "top" spell/first one hit, or do I take a chance on waxing my own Elemental Barrier with random crapshoot of EDispel?
However, I again note the harshness of trying to deal with this once you're tagged: if you get stunned on the first one, you have to spend a "break me free" action (before you can even try to Dispel it)... which probably comes with 3s of castRT. And you're about to get tagged again, in only two seconds, with the next cycle.
Even if you HAVE the tools to deal with any given step ("shout rally\r" and "incant 417\r" macros, in my case), you're still behind the curve simply by the spell effect firing 50% faster than the PC is allowed to get their actions in.
DOUG
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 01:19 PM CST
>This is useful, and new, information.
In fairness, I think this has been mentioned before - even a couple times.
>>or do I take a chance on
Untested / non-observed: Yep. Maybe we should 'evoke' it to target 'unknown' spells existing on self, first? Now THAT (or some facsimile thereof) would be a welcome change.
>>Even if you HAVE the tools to deal with any given step ("shout rally\r" and "incant 417\r" macros, in my case), you're still behind the curve simply by the spell effect firing 50% faster than the PC is allowed to get their actions in.
Which is why moving is always your first / best friend. And let's face it. Press a key to fire a macro compared to press a key to move out of the room (keypad). What's that you say? Keypad is too new-fangled for you?
Change - it's the new hard.
Doug
In fairness, I think this has been mentioned before - even a couple times.
>>or do I take a chance on
Untested / non-observed: Yep. Maybe we should 'evoke' it to target 'unknown' spells existing on self, first? Now THAT (or some facsimile thereof) would be a welcome change.
>>Even if you HAVE the tools to deal with any given step ("shout rally\r" and "incant 417\r" macros, in my case), you're still behind the curve simply by the spell effect firing 50% faster than the PC is allowed to get their actions in.
Which is why moving is always your first / best friend. And let's face it. Press a key to fire a macro compared to press a key to move out of the room (keypad). What's that you say? Keypad is too new-fangled for you?
Change - it's the new hard.
Doug
KRAKII
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 02:14 PM CST
"Press a key to fire a macro compared to press a key to move out of the room (keypad). What's that you say? Keypad is too new-fangled for you?" -- Doug
Not currently an issue where the stone giants are, but it is possible to have a room with only non-keypad exits.
"Go trail" or "go door" spring to mind, like that poor sod who got dropped in front of 25 greater vruul in the Monastery the other day...
I'm a bigger fan of always reaching for JUST ONE "rescue me" button, rather than flailing for "what're my available exits right now?!?!"
.
"In fairness, I think this has been mentioned before - even a couple times." -- ibid
Pretty sure I have everything that Konacon's said about the release up to now, and "can be dispelled" is completely new to me.
.
I do like the "evoke for foreign" spells, but it still means that all of Major Elemental/Wizard helpers (Thurfel's Ward, Strength, Mass Blur are all other-cast, and who knows what might be active from items or scrolls) and so on and so forth would still be perfectly legitimate targets for Elemental Dispel before it might conceive of possibly getting around to removing the oh crap spell that's about to, nope, too late, just died.
Turning your argument around the other way, a keypress is a keypress. 6 ("w") to run a dozen leagues away (depending on room description text) versus "incant dispel\r" on an F1 macro key is just a keypress. Why can't the one be as efficacious as the other?
Not currently an issue where the stone giants are, but it is possible to have a room with only non-keypad exits.
"Go trail" or "go door" spring to mind, like that poor sod who got dropped in front of 25 greater vruul in the Monastery the other day...
I'm a bigger fan of always reaching for JUST ONE "rescue me" button, rather than flailing for "what're my available exits right now?!?!"
.
"In fairness, I think this has been mentioned before - even a couple times." -- ibid
Pretty sure I have everything that Konacon's said about the release up to now, and "can be dispelled" is completely new to me.
.
I do like the "evoke for foreign" spells, but it still means that all of Major Elemental/Wizard helpers (Thurfel's Ward, Strength, Mass Blur are all other-cast, and who knows what might be active from items or scrolls) and so on and so forth would still be perfectly legitimate targets for Elemental Dispel before it might conceive of possibly getting around to removing the oh crap spell that's about to, nope, too late, just died.
Turning your argument around the other way, a keypress is a keypress. 6 ("w") to run a dozen leagues away (depending on room description text) versus "incant dispel\r" on an F1 macro key is just a keypress. Why can't the one be as efficacious as the other?
DOUG
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 02:37 PM CST
>>"Go trail" or "go door" spring to mind
I'm not sure how you (and others) feel about this - but a part of effective hunting tactics includes knowing the environment and selecting where to make your stand. I'd say, if you have a habit of engaging in combat in those rooms - that's a choice. This is one area where I don't 'roleplay' well - all of my character impersonations reflect this mentality. Probably not fair or 'right', but there it is.
>>Why can't the one be as efficacious as the other?
Not countering this, at all. But we do have to acknowledge that a self-cast 417 is presently a crap shoot (I think? Don't usually cast it on myself. ;) Overhauling the spell to have a logic tree beneficial to the players would be interesting. Probably time consuming, too. Right up until that lich got the spell enhancement and used it too! Just sayin'. . .
A short-cut on that time consuming just sprang to mind - 417 cast on self automatically targets debilitating / attack spell effects first. But if you're under the effect of Sounds and Earthen Fury, still 50/50. And that comment about the lich benefiting still remains. ;P
Doug
I'm not sure how you (and others) feel about this - but a part of effective hunting tactics includes knowing the environment and selecting where to make your stand. I'd say, if you have a habit of engaging in combat in those rooms - that's a choice. This is one area where I don't 'roleplay' well - all of my character impersonations reflect this mentality. Probably not fair or 'right', but there it is.
>>Why can't the one be as efficacious as the other?
Not countering this, at all. But we do have to acknowledge that a self-cast 417 is presently a crap shoot (I think? Don't usually cast it on myself. ;) Overhauling the spell to have a logic tree beneficial to the players would be interesting. Probably time consuming, too. Right up until that lich got the spell enhancement and used it too! Just sayin'. . .
A short-cut on that time consuming just sprang to mind - 417 cast on self automatically targets debilitating / attack spell effects first. But if you're under the effect of Sounds and Earthen Fury, still 50/50. And that comment about the lich benefiting still remains. ;P
Doug
DOUG
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 02:38 PM CST
Yeah, I know - Sounds wasn't a great choice there. Point remains, dammit!
Doug
Doug
KRAKII
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 02:55 PM CST
"I'm not sure how you (and others) feel about this - but a part of effective hunting tactics includes knowing the environment and selecting where to make your stand." -- Doug
In the last two weeks, I have changed the (unused) Shift+NumPad to be "peer <direction>", so now I can "shift+6" to peer West and, seeing it safe, release the Shift and hit "6" and go west, young man.
This is good.
Except in direct contravention of taking control of my chosen environment and making a stand. I mind me of one instance of peering (I think "up", on the [Narrow Ledge] in Thanatoph where the wind can sweep you off the side to die), and seeing a stone troll. Great! Experience on the hoof!
Hit "up" on the Numpad.
Walk in, see two trolls and one giant. (Or maybe it was two giants and one troll, which is significantly worse.)
Either way, my response just changed (radically) between what had been a fairly safe room and what is now either a dangerous room [2 trolls and 1 giant] or a really dangerous room [1 troll and 2 giants].
All of this happened in the space of
"shift+."
<decide a troll is easy; this is a quick decision>
"."
<and see what is NOW in the room>.
Some times you just get borked by the fact that the game is a program running at computer-speed. <shrug>
.
.
Currently my tactics depend on how much "Shift+"ing I want to do. If I'm okay with it, I peer all the time beforehand. If I see a giant, I go in with VibChant prepped and just have to Alt+Enter (I actually do a "cast at giant" from the macro, in the room I'm leaving) to get off my first cast.
(So, "peer, move, peer, move...")
If I do not feel like it, then I just walk around, but fast. If I see a troll, I'll back-track and do the slow kill (lead with Depression, to ensure stronger attacks on the back end). If I see a giant, I load up the VibChant in the room I'm leaving (as above), before back-tracking and just Alt+Enter. But either way, I overrun the creatures first and THEN go back to deal with them.
So, "move move move move prep/cast moveback Alt+Enter")
As opposed to two weeks ago: I would move with deliberation, rather than being perceived as a script-bot. Move, see what's there, do something.
(Or, "move and see, move and see, move and see, move and see and now start casting")
One is just bashing away at the numpad as I traverse the area. The other was "NumPad" <pause> "NumPad" <pause> "NumPad" <pause>. The problem is that those <pause>s are three chances for the bloody giants to kill me, now.
In the last two weeks, I have changed the (unused) Shift+NumPad to be "peer <direction>", so now I can "shift+6" to peer West and, seeing it safe, release the Shift and hit "6" and go west, young man.
This is good.
Except in direct contravention of taking control of my chosen environment and making a stand. I mind me of one instance of peering (I think "up", on the [Narrow Ledge] in Thanatoph where the wind can sweep you off the side to die), and seeing a stone troll. Great! Experience on the hoof!
Hit "up" on the Numpad.
Walk in, see two trolls and one giant. (Or maybe it was two giants and one troll, which is significantly worse.)
Either way, my response just changed (radically) between what had been a fairly safe room and what is now either a dangerous room [2 trolls and 1 giant] or a really dangerous room [1 troll and 2 giants].
All of this happened in the space of
"shift+."
<decide a troll is easy; this is a quick decision>
"."
<and see what is NOW in the room>.
Some times you just get borked by the fact that the game is a program running at computer-speed. <shrug>
.
.
Currently my tactics depend on how much "Shift+"ing I want to do. If I'm okay with it, I peer all the time beforehand. If I see a giant, I go in with VibChant prepped and just have to Alt+Enter (I actually do a "cast at giant" from the macro, in the room I'm leaving) to get off my first cast.
(So, "peer, move, peer, move...")
If I do not feel like it, then I just walk around, but fast. If I see a troll, I'll back-track and do the slow kill (lead with Depression, to ensure stronger attacks on the back end). If I see a giant, I load up the VibChant in the room I'm leaving (as above), before back-tracking and just Alt+Enter. But either way, I overrun the creatures first and THEN go back to deal with them.
So, "move move move move prep/cast moveback Alt+Enter")
As opposed to two weeks ago: I would move with deliberation, rather than being perceived as a script-bot. Move, see what's there, do something.
(Or, "move and see, move and see, move and see, move and see and now start casting")
One is just bashing away at the numpad as I traverse the area. The other was "NumPad" <pause> "NumPad" <pause> "NumPad" <pause>. The problem is that those <pause>s are three chances for the bloody giants to kill me, now.
KRAKII
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 03:26 PM CST
And just to confirm, I looked here (Wizards | Wizard Spells), in the Major Elemental area (Wizards | Major Elemental Circle), and where the SMRv2 was released (Hunting and Combat | Combat Maneuvers Discussion), for everything by Konacon, and Ctrl+F(ind) "dispel".
Three hits:
- Two of them in this thread, message #3607, where he mentioned "it can be dispelled" and I said, "Hey, new info!"
- One in H&C|CMD, where he mentions which creature maneuvers have now also been updated: "Giant stomp, caedera quaking, tailswipe, wing buffet, bandit dispel shard, triton drowning, beetle poison fog, Confluence twisting vortext air blast, dreamvine twinkling dust as well as their wrap ability, and the sentinel snake weapon grab."
.
So, yeah. I'm going with "it can be dispelled" being "new info".
Three hits:
- Two of them in this thread, message #3607, where he mentioned "it can be dispelled" and I said, "Hey, new info!"
- One in H&C|CMD, where he mentions which creature maneuvers have now also been updated: "Giant stomp, caedera quaking, tailswipe, wing buffet, bandit dispel shard, triton drowning, beetle poison fog, Confluence twisting vortext air blast, dreamvine twinkling dust as well as their wrap ability, and the sentinel snake weapon grab."
.
So, yeah. I'm going with "it can be dispelled" being "new info".
DOUG
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/12/2017 07:23 PM CST
>> - There will always be six cycles, unless it is dispelled (It can be dispelled) or kills its target.
>> Let me know if you see the spell acting differently than this or have any further questions.
Can we have this spell continue to ravage the corpse even after the target it dead?
---
[SMR result: 183 (Open d100: 68, Bonus: 56)]
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath a pale scaled shaper corpse!
... 35 points of damage!
Blow shatters knee and severs lower leg sending it flying off into the distance!
>
[SMR result: 200 (Open d100: 42, Bonus: 101)]
The earth cracks beneath the corpse of a pale scaled shaper, releasing a column of frigid air!
... 35 points of damage!
A thin line forms along the frozen skull of the pale scaled shaper corpse - followed by a sickening 'crack' as the skull explodes in a spray of icy mist.
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
>> Let me know if you see the spell acting differently than this or have any further questions.
Can we have this spell continue to ravage the corpse even after the target it dead?
---
[SMR result: 183 (Open d100: 68, Bonus: 56)]
Icy stalagmites burst from the ground beneath a pale scaled shaper corpse!
... 35 points of damage!
Blow shatters knee and severs lower leg sending it flying off into the distance!
>
[SMR result: 200 (Open d100: 42, Bonus: 101)]
The earth cracks beneath the corpse of a pale scaled shaper, releasing a column of frigid air!
... 35 points of damage!
A thin line forms along the frozen skull of the pale scaled shaper corpse - followed by a sickening 'crack' as the skull explodes in a spray of icy mist.
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
DVDMORSE
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/14/2017 02:34 AM CST
>In the last two weeks, I have changed the (unused) Shift+NumPad to be "peer <direction>"
I've had the number pad macros set this way on all of my characters for as long as I can remember. In addition, I suggest making control+numpad "crawl" in each direction. That has saved me more times than I can tell you.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
I've had the number pad macros set this way on all of my characters for as long as I can remember. In addition, I suggest making control+numpad "crawl" in each direction. That has saved me more times than I can tell you.
--David
"At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder, 'What would Jimmy Buffett do?'"
CLUNK24963
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/14/2017 05:27 PM CST
Good Ideas ...
Shift+NumPad "peer <direction>"
control+numpad "crawl <direction>"
I had
control+numpad "tell familiar go up\r"
but can shift that to alt+numpad.
Somewhere in the deep dark past, Clunk had a familiar amulet, and had been trained to talk to it.
So has anyone thought to add a treatise to the GsWiki on how to re-program keys for the wizard?
Clunk
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
DOUG
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/14/2017 07:26 PM CST
>>add a treatise
/mutter's something about a treatise
Some well-intentioned soul recreated the Wizard Help file on the wiki, yes. A treatise?
/walks away waving his arms
Doug
/mutter's something about a treatise
Some well-intentioned soul recreated the Wizard Help file on the wiki, yes. A treatise?
/walks away waving his arms
Doug
CLUNK24963
Re: 917 in Spell Active
01/15/2017 08:04 AM CST
>>add a treatise
>>/mutter's something about a treatise
>>Some well-intentioned soul recreated the Wizard Help file on the wiki, yes. A treatise?
>>/walks away waving his arms
well, yeah, you know, more than just the "how-to", but perhaps offering arguments for choices that might be made with respect to what to program onto all those extra keys. Such a treatise might take into consideration the human factors, such as Krakii mentioned, with respect to how different key sequences help or hinder during game play and contribute or hinder reaction time. They might include such things as setting up templates usable to all character professions, with simple one-time selections during login that offer shifts to subsets of the keystrokes that are specifically designed for a specific profession. A full treatise such as this might cause serious developers somewhere to reconsider the utility of the Wizard, eventually leading to an effort to modernize the Wizard itself.
Yeah ... a treatise ... they are all the rage nowadays, yes? ... If not, perhaps we can make them so.
Clunk
Clunk stands there there stubbornly, folding his arms over his chest.
(Buy your swords at CBD weapons in Zul Logoth.)
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 02:00 PM CDT
While I am presently enjoying this spell in its current form I can definitely see why folks on the receiving end aren't enjoying it so much. I like that it adds a new facet to combat (a combat maneuver in spell form) and it certainly is possible to train to defend against this spell but if there was some consideration for ratcheting back this spell at all I would recommend increasing the time between waves to 3 seconds from 2 seconds vs. reducing the power of the spell. This would allow a bit more time for humans to respond and react.
Just my two silvers worth!
-- Robert aka Faulkil
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
Just my two silvers worth!
-- Robert aka Faulkil
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
KRAKII
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 02:07 PM CDT
I been bangin' that drum for a month now, but it's good to have added voices in the chorus.
My particular issue with the rapidity of the cycles is that even someone with the ability to break out, is going to have a THREE-second castRT from the effect used, so if their response gets slowed by ping-lag (or "mere human reflexes") and they get tagged again, they have precisely NO recourse but to wait out another cycle after that.
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Also, while there may very well be some "decreasing effectiveness" from one cycle to the next, typically your (new) wounds (or new status, like "prone [from aforesaid wounds]") hamper you so badly that the effective endroll increases by so much that any decreased effectiveness built into the weaker cycle is totally overwhelmed by the final result's obscenely high final value.
My particular issue with the rapidity of the cycles is that even someone with the ability to break out, is going to have a THREE-second castRT from the effect used, so if their response gets slowed by ping-lag (or "mere human reflexes") and they get tagged again, they have precisely NO recourse but to wait out another cycle after that.
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Also, while there may very well be some "decreasing effectiveness" from one cycle to the next, typically your (new) wounds (or new status, like "prone [from aforesaid wounds]") hamper you so badly that the effective endroll increases by so much that any decreased effectiveness built into the weaker cycle is totally overwhelmed by the final result's obscenely high final value.
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 02:14 PM CDT
If critter cast 917 is too strong then just give them Boil Earth back.
Nerfing any aspect of this spell should be completely off the table if it's going to affect the player cast version.
~ Methais
Nerfing any aspect of this spell should be completely off the table if it's going to affect the player cast version.
~ Methais
LADYFLEUR
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 02:33 PM CDT
>Nerfing any aspect of this spell should be completely off the table if it's going to affect the player cast version.
I agree. As DoT, it's barely functional on a player offensive basis as it is. It doesn't even guarantee a kill in one cast no matter your training.
I agree. As DoT, it's barely functional on a player offensive basis as it is. It doesn't even guarantee a kill in one cast no matter your training.
KRAKII
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 03:28 PM CDT
Boil Earth could be damaging enough; it and Spike Thorn do me in on a regular basis.
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I would totally support the reversion of creatures to (old) Boil Earth. Maybe even move it to the Arcane List, and let it show up as a treasure trinket.
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I would totally support the reversion of creatures to (old) Boil Earth. Maybe even move it to the Arcane List, and let it show up as a treasure trinket.
KANDOR
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 06:34 PM CDT
2 sec is faster than a lot of people can react, even if you have a panic button. For the critters in their 20s, it's clearly too powerful. Most PCs at that level don't have a way to break a stun, and are still catching up on core training. However, if PCs can use a spell, I think critters should be able to use it. PC-only is a cop-out. If we ask for reliable killing spells, critters should be able to use them back on us. Maybe less frequently, though, and limited to the levels where we start seeing high-level sorcerer spells cast at us.
LADYFLEUR
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 06:41 PM CDT
>If we ask for reliable killing spells, critters should be able to use them back on us.
I disagree. There's plenty of precedent for creatures and PCs having different abilities. They are entirely different beings. Further, many creatures have abilities that no PC will ever have. See air elementals and blowing someone into another room, earth elementals falling on a PC and killing them or flat out immobilizing someone with a touch, the unavoidable mote of lightning strike, and far more effective major e-wave abilities among others.
I disagree. There's plenty of precedent for creatures and PCs having different abilities. They are entirely different beings. Further, many creatures have abilities that no PC will ever have. See air elementals and blowing someone into another room, earth elementals falling on a PC and killing them or flat out immobilizing someone with a touch, the unavoidable mote of lightning strike, and far more effective major e-wave abilities among others.
KANDOR
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 06:49 PM CDT
>There's plenty of precedent for creatures and PCs having different abilities. They are entirely different beings. Further, many creatures have abilities that no PC will ever have.
Okay, I agree -- they don't need to be the same. It IS helpful for game balance, though, and maybe a little humbling, when a player must consider being a likely target of whatever he's suggesting. Some of the things that have been rolled out for PCs only might be a lot different by now if critters used them back on us.
Okay, I agree -- they don't need to be the same. It IS helpful for game balance, though, and maybe a little humbling, when a player must consider being a likely target of whatever he's suggesting. Some of the things that have been rolled out for PCs only might be a lot different by now if critters used them back on us.
DOUG
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 07:42 PM CDT
As a quick point of reference we're talking. . . 5 creatures before cap? Out of . . . hundreds?
Leave it, and sort out tactics. There are some beyond just 'what skill / what spell'.
Doug
Leave it, and sort out tactics. There are some beyond just 'what skill / what spell'.
Doug
KRAKII
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 08:57 PM CDT
Remember in your calculus here that we have to kill hundreds or thousands of creatures to advance just one level, and we might be in that same creature's area for several levels...
...they have to kill one adventurer. Once.
And your afternoon hits a major speed bump.
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I have no qualms whatsoever with PCs having a 2s cycle on Earthen Fury, and creatures having a 3.5-4s cycle.
Nor do I have qualms about them having Boil Earth, and characters getting Earthen Fury.
Totally fine with it.
...they have to kill one adventurer. Once.
And your afternoon hits a major speed bump.
.
I have no qualms whatsoever with PCs having a 2s cycle on Earthen Fury, and creatures having a 3.5-4s cycle.
Nor do I have qualms about them having Boil Earth, and characters getting Earthen Fury.
Totally fine with it.
FURROWFOOT
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 09:09 PM CDT
I'm curious what effective lore ranks are considered in play for creature cast 917. I'm wondering if they're not considered to be 1x (or maybe even 2x) in all 3 lores that impact it. I know in the past it's been mentioned that creatures were considered "fully" trained for most of the abilities they use. Lores might be an odd fit in that puzzle though.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 09:12 PM CDT
By default all creatures are trained 0.5x in all lores.
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
-- Robert
A powerful whirlpool is suddenly overtaken by a windy vortex!
FURROWFOOT
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 09:14 PM CDT
Ahh, ok. Makes sense, though I'm sure the Illoke are pissed about all those wasted TPs they have to spend on air lore.
DOUG
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/27/2017 10:40 PM CDT
>>Makes sense, though I'm sure the Illoke are pissed about all those wasted TPs they have to spend on air lore.
ROFL! Only too true!
Doug
ROFL! Only too true!
Doug
DRUMPEL
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/28/2017 07:45 AM CDT
Even creatures being .5x in lores - it can make some spells very, very irritating or nasty should the lore bonus trigger.
Hunting wind witches (level 16 - means they'd have 8 ranks EL:A), they cast Call Wind with a paltry 2% chance to trigger a vortex.
I've had a vortex trigger from call wind cast upon me from the wind witches several times over the couple of levels I hunted them and it's a huge pain in the rear. You get tagged with the RT from call wind, then you get RT lock from the vortex constantly added 3+ seconds every few seconds or so. By the time the vortex was done swirling around me, I still had 10+ seconds of RT as I lay there on the ground getting kicked around.
Any creature that can cast 917 - if they're level 80, that means 40 ranks of each lore is known and they have an 8% of fire or cold 917 to trigger an immediate follow up crit and 19.8% damage bonus to any target that's not prone/stunned (as if they were prone/stunned) from EL:E on crit cycles 2-6.
Now, 8% means it shouldn't trigger very often, but we should expect it to happen to us from time to time. Having a young wizard with 3 ranks of EL:W and casting 917 COLD, he's gets a .6% chance for an immediate follow up crit on the initial cast. I've seen it trigger twice so far after casting the spell 10 different times since he's learned the spell.
Just something to think about while you're out there fighting with those creatures that cast 917.
-Drumpel
Hunting wind witches (level 16 - means they'd have 8 ranks EL:A), they cast Call Wind with a paltry 2% chance to trigger a vortex.
I've had a vortex trigger from call wind cast upon me from the wind witches several times over the couple of levels I hunted them and it's a huge pain in the rear. You get tagged with the RT from call wind, then you get RT lock from the vortex constantly added 3+ seconds every few seconds or so. By the time the vortex was done swirling around me, I still had 10+ seconds of RT as I lay there on the ground getting kicked around.
Any creature that can cast 917 - if they're level 80, that means 40 ranks of each lore is known and they have an 8% of fire or cold 917 to trigger an immediate follow up crit and 19.8% damage bonus to any target that's not prone/stunned (as if they were prone/stunned) from EL:E on crit cycles 2-6.
Now, 8% means it shouldn't trigger very often, but we should expect it to happen to us from time to time. Having a young wizard with 3 ranks of EL:W and casting 917 COLD, he's gets a .6% chance for an immediate follow up crit on the initial cast. I've seen it trigger twice so far after casting the spell 10 different times since he's learned the spell.
Just something to think about while you're out there fighting with those creatures that cast 917.
-Drumpel
GS4-ESTILD
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/28/2017 10:40 AM CDT
The amount of lore training for creatures vary by spell. We try to maintain some standard, but that's not always warranted. For Earthen Fury (917), creatures are 0.25x trained in each lore. If we determine a change is needed for the creature cast version, we can simply address it through the strength of the attack without changing the underlying mechanics or impacting the player cast version.
GameMaster Estild
GameMaster Estild
LADYFLEUR
Re: 917 in Spell Active
03/28/2017 10:47 AM CDT
>If we determine a change is needed for the creature cast version, we can simply address it through the strength of the attack without changing the underlying mechanics or impacting the player cast version.
This is good to know. Thank you for the clarification.
This is good to know. Thank you for the clarification.
