Since Ozias was kind enough to post the racial height ranges for all races in the Burghal Gnome section, I've added the info from the post to the RACE page in Krakiipedia -- http://www.krakiipedia.org/wiki/Race

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Check out the Lore Benefits Summation Chart at... http://carabele.com/odds/LoreBenefits.htm

You know the funny thing about racial heights? Not everyone agrees with them. Although, since Ozias is an SGM I guess he has the final say. I mention this since we just had a giantman racial forum (maybe a month ago) and, as a group, we decided giantkin are in the 7-10 foot range. 10' being being extremely tall and 7' being small.

So, which is it? Or more to the point, when was this posted?

~Galenok

>So, which is it? Or more to the point, when was this posted? - Galenok

I don't know, but I take a disliking to the chart myself. All the races but humans seem shortened by a varying amount

The charts I have from other games seem to all agree on certain things... average height for one

This is an average of the stated average heights taken from 6 different game systems

Race	Male average	Female Average
Dwarves	4'9	4'5
Elves	6'5	6'1
Half-Elf	6'3	5'11
Halfling	3'5	3'3
Human	5'10	5'4
Gnome	4'6	4'6
Giantmen	6'5	5'10

So looking over this averaging and the GS chart, there are some notable differences; with the exception of humans, every race seems to have lost height in GS.

Even if you average the male and female heights together to get a composite; Elves, Half-elves, Halflings, Dwarves and Gnomes loose out; Humans and Giantman seem the only ones a bit more towards the norm

I think a serious look needs to be done to the racial heights if GS is going to be that out of whack with the rest of the gaming universe, there needs to be a change or a VERY good explanation why.... and no, just saying "that's the way we designed it" is NOT a good explanation.

- Keelty and her researching pet

"Butterflies are NOT insects, they are self-propelled flowers"

The 'Super Fletching Script' and an updated Wizard
Now at http://www.citlink.net/~keelty

I can be reached via AIM at keeltykadair

<<I think a serious look needs to be done to the racial heights if GS is going to be that out of whack with the rest of the gaming universe, there needs to be a change or a VERY good explanation why.... and no, just saying "that's the way we designed it" is NOT a good explanation.

I see no reason that Gemstone needs to conform to other games. Do we also need fightable dragons because classic D&D type games have them?

-Grendeg

...I think you missed the point...

-Grendeg

Eh... nevermind.


~Brian, Sepher's player.

"Come on... We could be partners. Split everything down the middle 60-40."

A living dragon? I don't recall anything like that, except perhaps in the Reach. Is there a reference to a sleeping dragon in the water tunnels? I thought it was only the treasure hoard.

-Grendeg

<<I think a serious look needs to be done to the racial heights if GS is going to be that out of whack with the rest of the gaming universe, there needs to be a change or a VERY good explanation why.... and no, just saying "that's the way we designed it" is NOT a good explanation.


Honestly, there's no reason why Gemstone racial information needs to conform to other gaming information. Gemstone is its own unique and separate universe. Nothing need, or really, should be shared with other universes. We don't want a cookie cutter world, after all. :)

rail
Gemstone's history sorted by race and culture!
http://www.riversrest.net/Highmount/tomes.htm
Don't forget to check out:
http://www.Krakiipedia.org for all your Gemstone information needs! If it ain't there, sign up and add it!

I really like what DR has done: http://www.play.net/dr/info/races/racecharts.asp

By indicating the minimum for the Kaldar (the equivalent of the Giantmen), it puts them above humans and elves' minimum. The Kaldar's max is a foot taller than the tallest elf, and two feet taller than the tallest human.

Unfortunately the GS info falls far short of the detail DR offers, since no race in GS specifies min/max in order to better define the physiology of each race. It also allows for abberations, variances from the norm.

On the other hand, the GS site indicates that giantmen "sometimes" over 7 feet - but many mistake it as "never" over 7 feet (or rather 7 is max)as in Carabele's document.

I too only have hand-written notes, and I'm fairly positive that the description for giants was "up to 10 feet" as that's what I have scribbled in my notes. Unfortunately with the shift, all old racial data was wiped from the play.net which is the source I cited. All other websites refer to racial charts in the form of stat bonuses, not racial traits.

Needless to say, I've played Tark at around 8 feet for 8 years now. Maybe when she's old and grey, she'll shrink a foot and walk with a hunch. Until then, she's going to continue to look down on the (ahem) "lesser" races.

-Tark's player

I was fairly surprised to see that Erithians can grow to be as tall as giantkin (7'), particularly since website caps them off at 6'6". Seeing that, I'm suddenly inspired to play my lil Erithian again.

Also, I always assumed giants could easily grow taller than 7'...I mean, otherwise, aren't they just a race of basketball players? Their given height range is not uncommon amongst RL humans! I don't even play a giantman character, but their newly-affirmed relative shortness just doesn't sit right with me.

Evan

"Reality continues to ruin my life." - Bill Watterson

Cruush is 9 ft 2 in.

And I don't care who disagrees.

CH


"Most animals are better people than most people I know."

Semper ubi sub ubi.

>I highly doubt that, as it would rather trivialize the most defining characteristic of giantkin.

Well, there IS that whole "dashing good looks" aspect. We'll always have that, regardless of how tall we are.

CH

"Most animals are better people than most people I know."

Semper ubi sub ubi.

>Doubt it or not, it's the truth, the difference is an elf will be 7 foot tall, and less than 200 pounds, while I giant will be 7 foot tall and between 300, and 400 pounds.

>This is the way it's been for a loooooong time, any older player will tell you the same thing.

Funny. I'm an older player and I wouldn't. I never recall anything stating that elves were supposed to be as tall as GIANTkin.

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And.. an empath has the chance to boneshatter someone. That's pretty violent.

Accidents happen to pacifists too, you know.

>Odd how you're an older player, and I've never heard of you. - Grim

There are those of us besides Jimmy who change account names; some of us change character names as well instead of just re-rolling the same character ad-infinitum like he does ;)

- Keelty and her long-standing pet

"Butterflies are NOT insects, they are self-propelled flowers"

The 'Super Fletching Script' and an updated Wizard
Now at http://www.citlink.net/~keelty

I can be reached via AIM at keeltykadair

giantKIN, not a giant, basically a half-breed between a human and a giant. Amazing how you've played that long, yet never even checked how big the race was, just kind of assumed it.

>giantKIN, not a giant,

I never said they were.

>basically a half-breed between a human and a giant.

Funny, if you check the bestiary, averaging the height of a human with ANY type of giant we have would yield a giantkin FAR taller than any elf. I happen to think they're shorter than that; I picture them averaging 8.5 feet, myself. I think that height would warrant the label "giantkin".

I don't picture elves going anywhere over 7 feet.

>Amazing how you've played that long, yet never even checked how big the race was, just kind of assumed it.

Amazing. Just how deluded are you? Or was this less of a serious comment and more just a way to boost your "I've been around forever, my word is law" ego that you seem to have developed?

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And.. an empath has the chance to boneshatter someone. That's pretty violent.

Accidents happen to pacifists too, you know.

Grimreaper, I've been around since....95. Know me? Probably not. Guess what? I have no idea who you are either. It's a big game. Doesn't make you less wrong, or me more right. Or something.

Cruush is 9'2". My Dhe'nar has stood beside him countless times, and is about chest height. She has to reach way up to rub his bald head. He's like a meat shield. She adores him, in that twisted Dhe'nar sort of way. And he's 9'2".

RheisIa's Witch

...and you will know her by the trail of limbs. Four of them Jenovadeath's.

With the deICEing they should have come up with a totally different name for highman than "giantman". It was a bad name in 1995, just like laen to mein was and today still is a lousy name. Soon as I saw the new name for highman I grimaced and knew it would cause all sorts of fun debates in future years, I was not proven wrong.

DR's introduction of the race was much better done with the Gorbesh/Kaldor. I don't hold my breath for a change of race name at this late date but it would be nice to ditch the silly knuckle dragging, 9 foot plus tall, cave dwelling, low brow giantman moniker.

Jim

The inexpert captain, and the unlearned physician, do buy their experience at too dear a rate, for it is still purchased with the price of men's lives. -Captain Barnabe Rich (1540-1617)

Grimreaper, I've been around since....95. Know me? Probably not. Guess what? I have no idea who you are either. It's a big game. Doesn't make you less wrong, or me more right. Or something.

Cruush is 9'2". My Dhe'nar has stood beside him countless times, and is about chest height. She has to reach way up to rub his bald head. He's like a meat shield. She adores him, in that twisted Dhe'nar sort of way. And he's 9'2".

RheisIa's Witch

Like my stance that Celtar was at the battle of Shadowguard, it only makes players look silly when the doumentation nolonger supports your stance/history that you've decided upon as a player. Roll with the change or look foolish and don't expect to be taken serious. Many of you have thrown this very debate in my face as a side note. :)



Jim

The inexpert captain, and the unlearned physician, do buy their experience at too dear a rate, for it is still purchased with the price of men's lives. -Captain Barnabe Rich (1540-1617)

>>and my character would think you're both Zelians, because no giantkin is 9'2"

What if you have a giant giantkin? Even if you go by you assertation that giantkin are 7', that still leaves the possiblity for a taller then average giantkin to be in the range of 9'2"

As in the real world there certainly are humans that are 1'2" taller then the standard tallest hieght. As if they weren't they wouldn't be regarded as "Giants" or get roles/jobs because of their extreme hieght.

9'2" is not out of the question for a giantkin. As not every member of the race is equal in height, there is variance. 14'2" now that would be into the realm of zelia.
-player of hakwea

"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him" ~Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
The demonologists Handbook: http://www.geocities.com/gsdemonologist/