>At 50 ranks of Elemental Lore, Air

Yay! Finally some Air love. Thanks Konacon - and I definitely missed your crafty intros even if I didn't like the new that followed.

Best air lore change so far, I'd say. And bards actually see benefit too (not that I care, but I saw some moping about).

Thank you for being willing to give it some thought. I am mostly just looking for any information by which to judge the effectiveness of the lore.

As things stand the spells could use a D:10000 and the increase could be 1 every 150 skill (that is linear) and everything you have said would hold.

And no, that isn't an accusation that the effect is that tiny. I'm just trying to point out how little value 'it's better' has without any other context.

Tal.

Hey Konacon, both this and 413's improvements are well done. Thank you for those.

Question: Does the added effectiveness of water lore apply to the critter cast versions of this spell? If so, what level of increased difficulty should we expect seeing from creatures casting Minor/Major E-wave near/at/post cap?

> And no, that isn't an accusation that the effect is that tiny. I'm just trying to point out how little value 'it's better' has without any other context.

How about we try this (In terms of water lore benefit):

- 10 ranks roughly cancels out the benefit gained from Spirit Barrier (102).
- 30 ranks is stronger than the benefit gained from Wall of Force (140).

~ Konacon

> 102 and 140 effect Ewave avoidance?

Ugh, my brains. This is what I get for trying to keep being helpful after the releaseathon. No, they don't. But if they did, those comparisons would hold! Um...

- 20 ranks is a little bit stronger than the benefit provided by Empathic Focus. (This one really does help against E-Wave.)

~ Konacon

I noticed my 435 working against griffins and I was think WOT?!?!?!????!!!!!!111111

And then I read this. Very cool release.

-Taakhooshi, and Me

For the Story of Taakhooshi:
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Taakhooshi

I understand and appreciate the response, K. My intent wasn't to draw attention to the issue so as to incite change, just to confirm whether it is initially one way or the other.

As for my take on it ... As long as it was carefully considered how this change would affect every profession across all levels, then so be it.

>I make no promises as to what happens 5 minutes from now, tomorrow, or what have you. Right now critters are, in fact, considered 0.5x trained in Water Lore.

Thanks for the extra hidden nerf for those greater water elementals the future nerfed wizards are already going to have far more trouble hunting than the average pure.

It does seem highly unfair that creatures get every benefit we get, but we get none of theirs.

Compare our 917, 915, 514 to theirs, they get a far superior version.


We should either gain all the benefits that creatures get to spells, or they should not gain the benefits we gain from lores.

Konacon, thanks. I'm just trying to figure out what to post for info on the wiki. I'll take as much (or as little) as your willing to give for that cause.

Two small questions...
Is every rank impactful towards success (1012 is stated to be that way with air lore, so in theory it is possible) or is it based around cut-offs and trunicated remainders?

And a generic question because it came up elsewhere. Are all critters exactly .5x in lores or are their outliers for that pattern? Feel free to ignore this one if it would impact you answering the first part.

Tal.

> My intent wasn't to draw attention to the issue so as to incite change, just to confirm whether it is initially one way or the other.

I'm happy to answer the questions and I don't want to keep anything hidden from anyone. Honestly I know that a fair number of these questions are coming when I release each spell. The reason I don't include all that information in the original release is to keep the releases from each having like 10-20 lines of "Note: In -this- case, it works like this" as I try to guess what everyone is going to be curious about.

> Is every rank impactful towards success (1012 is stated to be that way with air lore, so in theory it is possible) or is it based around cut-offs and trunicated remainders?

It is based around cut-offs, but every rank until 40 (When skill starts increasing by 1 per rank) is impactful towards success. After that there are some ranks that will not be impactful. However, I can tell you there is a definite difference in a 40 water-lore rank E-Wave and a 100 water-lore rank E-Wave. There are no diminishing returns to it.

> And a generic question because it came up elsewhere. Are all critters exactly .5x in lores or are their outliers for that pattern? Feel free to ignore this one if it would impact you answering the first part.

There are no special cases for this. All critters are 0.5x in lores for both E-Waves (I can't speak to every spell in the game though).

~ Konacon

Am I the only one who doesn't fine boil extremely threatening?

89, in the confluence, and I actually prefer hot side to cold because boil is significantly less of a threat to me than call wind. Can it hurt? Sure. But it is rarely even hunt ending in its damage. I haven't been one shotted by a boil in ages.

Tal.

Maybe? With haste up I tend to recover from callwind/ewave rather quicker than even a moderate stun caused by being boiled. Also I've noticed call wind will often outright fail whereas my ability to dodge boils is probably ~60%.

I've definitely been killed by boil several times but never by call wind.

Though in my own hunting I find Call Wind quite useful and boil not at all, so... not sure what to make of all that.

>Right now critters are, in fact, considered 0.5x trained in Water Lore.

With all of the changes to these spells and the lores that buff them, aren't critters getting a tad more buff than players are allowed to get?

I mean, 100 level creature has 50 trains in lore across the board. Not an easy task for a 100 level player.

They've got a really strong union and skillful lobbyists.

___
ASGM of Events and Festivals

Cool release.

I'm assuming this would apply to, I dunno, a hanging tree viper as well?

FLYING SNAKES!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMs8Cu8PNKM

---

Check out who's dying any time! https://twitter.com/GSIVDeathLog

>Daid: Pretty sure you have a whole big bucket as your penny jar. You never have only two cents. :p

>ot that I'm complaining, but ewave was already as much a one trick pony as any spell out there. I suppose its place in the minor circle means more players can use it, and setup spells have enough trouble as it is, but it's kind of odd that now ewave will be able to knock down flying enemies but call wind won't?

you think that is weird, implosion will not knock down flying critters - meanwhile it is impossible to fly in a vacuum.... so what air are the wings pushing down in order to stay aloft? Like Chewbacca living on Endor, this does not make sense.

At 50 ranks of Elemental Lore, Air these spells are now transformed into a spherical wave which can affect flying targets. In addition, the target's maneuver defense against these spells is now reduced at a linear progression based on Elemental Lore, Water skill.

Question regarding this: is the wave (410 or 435) also supposed to knock flying creatures out of the air? Right now, all I am seeing on flying creatures is the damage from 435 hitting them, and likely, the RT (although I can't directly tell, the evidence does seem to suggest that flying creatures are getting the RT). Flying creatures (at least war griffins) are not, however, being knocked out of the air. Is this WAI, or is it an error?

-Taakhooshi, and Me

For the Story of Taakhooshi:
http://www.gsguide.net/index.php?title=Taakhooshi

>> No. This was my bad on not being more specific. It's supposed to allow it to affect the flying creatures, but not actually change the fact that they're flying.


From a game balance perspective, I totally get this. From a logic standpoint, it makes... very little sense. The creature is "knocked the the ground and pinned by elemental energy" in the air... while still flapping...

Brain hurts...

>> At 50 ranks of Elemental Lore, Air these spells are now transformed into a spherical wave which can affect flying targets. In addition, the target's maneuver defense against these spells is now reduced at a linear progression based on Elemental Lore, Water skill.

Hey Konacon! How's the lawn looking these days?

I was wondering if you might expand on how much the target's maneuver defense can be impacted by the linear progression reduction? Meaning if the target doesn't have much maneuver defense to begin with does the bonus stop once you reach 0 or can this theoretically cause a defender to have negative maneuver defense?

Asking it differently (in case this is clearer), how much impact would 50 ranks of elt lore, water have on casting this against a (like level) player character with 0 Combat Maneuver training (lots, small, negligible)?

Same question against a player character with 50 ranks of CM training.

Thanks!

-- Robert

Fluke in the programming, or just your average everyday Konacode? ~ Konacon

Hey Konacon ...

Couple questions about ewave.

Does 435 have a better chance of knockdown than 410 ... or is that extra mana just getting you the chance on injury? If so, how would the increased chance of knockdown from 435 compare to that "empath spell metric" or "the first 20 ranks of water lore". Are we talking about that much better chance, half that much better chance, etc.?

My other question is about the effects of water lore, and whether an aspect of the elemental lore preview was implemented, or not. That aspect was "Training in Elemental Lore, Water increases the effectiveness of this spell, granting a bonus to its maneuver check.... [t]his bonus is twice as effective as the bonus to Elemental Wave (410)." Also, does the example metric of the "empath spell" apply equally as well to 410 or 435?