>>515 shouldn't be allowed to be other cast at all, just as 215 isn't, without a lot of lore and the wizard present and grouped. If it wasn't available to outside users, the nerfs should not have had to be so onerous nor should much of a post-cap cooldown have been required at all. 1 second CT and non-stackability already reduced the spell's benefits significantly. The cooldown while still allowing other cast is overkill.

Not really anything to disagree with here. Just a note - we have no real idea all the discussions had by the dev team. This exact scenario might (hey, I did say might) have been discussed and discarded for some reason.

I mean, let's be frank - Estild was involved in both. If the end result is different, I'm banking there's a reason, even if I don't understand it.

Doug

I have to admit I'm a bit surprised it didn't end up being self-cast only. I guess I should be glad? I dunno. I would bet it's used more for MA action than anything else. Are people really using this in group hunting on characters that aren't their own? Are other classes spells nerfed to be 'balanced' when under 515 or are wizard spells (bolts & 502) unique in that regard?

So. . .

anyone up for 0 CT, 1 minute hard duration, Water Lore and Air Lore as presently designed, cool down as presently designed, spell not autoprepped and only self cast?

Sheesh.

Doug

>Yeah, well. . . damn. I'm still on the fence a bit, but I'm satisfied that the target's lore affects the spell, and that it's the same native or no.

I'm not satisfied with that because you know who can afford to ignore any cooldown mana penalties and just keep re-casting? The sorcerers and clerics using 302 and 702, that both have much higher damage and can access more CS boosters than wizards and their 502. Not to mention, for outside users who are meant to primarily be CS-based spell users, they can ignore any spirit drain penalties and hunt almost endlessly under this method. In comparison, wizards still largely have to keep spirit high enough to bolt as effectively as possible, since their CS-based spells both cost more and are less effective.

I liked the 0 sec rt, but it really needed to change. A lot of people have been hunting with the walk into the room and blast everything instantly style. Now with the slowdown it will force us to use more caution and tactics.

I notice the script hunters whom may or may not even be at their keyboards have been hunting in my areas less and when they do, theres still some critters left for everyone else... So thats a benefit in and of itself.

Just an elf about town...

>anyone up for 0 CT, 1 minute hard duration, Water Lore and Air Lore as presently designed, cool down as presently designed, spell not autoprepped and only self cast?

I think it's clear 0 CT is off the table for good. In light of that, I think self-cast and no cool down by cap (2x EMC) is reasonable.

However, something also needs to be done to address the fact that wizards now have no effective crowd control disabler and instant kill mechanism on a near guaranteed basis, the way the other pures still do.

240/317 and 240/1115 cause just as much, if not more, screen scroll as 515. It's the double nerf of 0 CT and removal of 519's effectiveness that really crippled a wizard's post-cap ability to guarantee effective crowd control and reliable instant kills on the same level as the other pures.

As for 506's offensive capabilities, it largely achieves the same effect as before with sufficient training. You know who it was nerfed for? Non-wizards, which is how 515 changes should have been addressed to start.

Since 2008 I have been playing a wizard in one form or another and was fine with them how they are. There was talking initially starting with Naos of an E-Lore review to spice up the profession and make it more interesting and make the lore training a meaningful part of the training. It would require nerfing haste/rapid fire, but in the end we would get too see a beautiful master plan of wizards in harmony with lore training unfold. What has become obvious over the last few months is that there is no beautiful plan for wizards, people (GM's) are just current just throwing crap together in no coherent way. Changing things overnight based on player feedback. You guys need to rollback ALL of these changes and start over with a plan.

I will say that I see where the scripting, quick button pressing/mashing crowd see this as 20 percent of the time I could get a 100 percent increase in damage instead of 20 percent of the time I get a 20-40 percent increase in damage (though now with channeled bolts that would be better), but I still would rather keep the 1 second rt. I think this is a good change that just needs the right oomph where the "nerf" is just a change.

I do not know why the down time calculation was changed, maybe it was because someone had already gotten it down to 4 seconds reup and the GM's didn't want that. Maybe it was because they wanted Wizards between 15-100 a chance of using it a bit more. Maybe a little bit of both.

I do not see a circumstance where 29 seconds would be the savior instead of 30 though.

Making this spell self cast only would annoy me personally (as an archer that casts 404 on a bard) but I can see advantage if wizards can get back the 100 percent uptime.

I really do not care for the 4 hours stacking.

In the end what has been taken from wizards with Rapid Fire changes? The ability to instantly kill something? I really think that Wizards will be able to kill fast enough now. It would be nice if wizards had something like 316 or 1120 or 504 was more room capable but maybe we have to all be air lore users now.

GBB

Everyone always runs back to 1030 at bards. I hunt warcamps all the time (where is was nerfed) no 1030. Stop with the you have it so well you have xxx. In my case I play a capped Bard/Cleric/Wizard/ just about equally now. Concentrate on what it will take to get Wizards to a point where what has been done to 515 is forgiven/forgotten.

"It would be nice if wizards had something like 316 or 1120 or 504 was more room capable.GBB"

Like that.

GBB

Why not just make Rapid Fire work like Celerity with the cooldown? As in wizards get no cooldown, everyone else gets the cooldown that's in place. If you're worried about other classes training down the cooldown, then remove that part of it.

Maybe I missed a post, but I still haven't heard the reasoning for wizards getting a cooldown on it.

~ Methais

My non wizard is terrified at too many boosts as hunting grimswarm becomes more and more dangerous.

It seems the 0 RT proc is being a big liarface.


You are now in an offensive stance.
>Your hands glow with power as you invoke the phrase for Minor Fire...
Your spell is ready.
Seeing an opportunity, you accelerate time and empower your spell!
You channel at a huge air elemental.
You hurl a stream of fire at a huge air elemental!
AS: +513 vs DS: +366 with AvD: +31 + d100 roll: +7 = +185
... and hit for 56 points of damage!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
Roundtime: 0 sec.
>
Cast Round Time in effect: Setting stance to guarded.
>stance offensive
incant 906
stance defensive
You are now in an offensive stance.
>Wait 1 sec.


~ Methais

>The "Wait 1 sec." is due to the castRT (when you try to cast for the second time). Your log shows you going to stance guarded immediately after casting, then back to stance offensive. You can't change stances while in roundtime.

Oh I see...I was thinking this was the old proc, not the channel proc.

I blame Monday. And mornings. And Obama. And Bush.

~ Methais

I'd rather get a 1 second cast time, but with no cool down for 515. I also believe that 515 should be self cast. Why is wasn't to begin with is the mystery....

>>I'll never understand any spell that isn't imbeddable but still castable on other players without requiring the caster to be present for it to stick.

Be careful what you ask for. There are quite a few that work beneficially this way. Let's not make it worse.

Doug

Yeah Rapid fire should be self cast. Give some of that back to Wizards. It seems like a no brainer.

Alright after spending some time hunting on my mage I am absolutely furious at how he's still faster than my sorcerer but not quite nearly as amazingly as fast as he once was. I demand we get our 0 rt back when casting bolts as it is the most tedious thing having any round time at all when casting spells. Can we seriously not get back to 0 rt at some other cost? I will offer meteor shower as an offering.

Secondly (because I know there's no way we're ever getting back to 0 rt) can we consider the 'flare' on 515 an extension on the uptime (since we just recently lost the ability to use enhancives to reduce cooldown as far as we initially could)? In a swarm you can keep it up because you'll have that chance for it to flare but as soon as the swarm ends, the duration will be able to catch up. Noone wants to see rapidfire fall in the midst of a crowd it was designed for.

Thirdly, this is working as intended (and look how neat it all works together!) but if we aren't going to change it to something else it would be nice if it happened more often or reliably:

501
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Sleep...
Your spell is ready.
You gesture at a triton combatant.
CS: +494 - TD: +390 + CvA: +20 + d100: +80 == +204
Warding failed!
A triton combatant's eyes roll up into her head as she slumps to the ground.
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
>stance off
You are now in an offensive stance.
>prep 510
You intone a phrase of elemental power while raising your hands, invoking Hurl Boulder...
Your spell is ready.
>
Your disk arrives, following you dutifully.
>
A triton combatant breathes quietly in her sleep, her small nostrils flaring periodically.
>ch comb
You channel at a triton combatant.
A triton combatant is awakened by your attack!
You hurl a large boulder at a triton combatant!
AS: +478 vs DS: +232 with AvD: +22 + d100 roll: +53 = +321
... and hit for 148 points of damage!
Hard strike removes the right eye and a goodly bit of skull!
The triton combatant gurgles once and goes still, a wrathful look on her face.

Necrotic energy from your runestaff overflows into you!

You feel energized!
Cast Roundtime 1 Second.
Roundtime: 3 sec.

I would really like rapidfire to refresh on flare (like bubble flares refresh) so you can attempt to hold out against a big swarm but will lose the rapidfire when the fight slows.

>I would really like rapidfire to refresh on flare (like bubble flares refresh) so you can attempt to hold out against a big swarm but will lose the rapidfire when the fight slows.

Definitely would be nice to have something to handle the swarming which tends to happen quite often at/near capped. All I can do right now is basically run or die. Even the 1 second RT makes all the difference in that life or death so the nerf does hurt, but I can also learn to deal with it and am learning slowly.