how about a chance to flare 506 on yourself? or flare bubble flares? mana return like dc?

temp increase in td?

I don't think extending either the duration or reducing the cooldown is sufficient to address the amount of power lost by having the cooldown plus mana penalty in the first place. If we're really going for a tangible lore benefit, a free mana double cast or high chance of an aimed bolt, similar to what post-cap ambushers and archers can achieve, would be useful and unique.

Air lore is not the right lore to be using for this, given every other offensive benefit takes fire. Either that, or we need to be able to 3x lores, because the way training is split 4 ways with such high seeds for all means that no matter what, every post-cap wizard is going to be pretty mediocre.

I really like Tandl's recommendations.

HOWEVER, I would prefer not having something be "On the next cast blahblahblah". Lets face it, we're going to be spam casting while rapid fire is up... I'd rather not have to adjust what I'm casting based on a proc in 1s time. I'd rather have it be retroactively applied. I can't really adjust what I'm doing in 1s! Thats why randomly getting 0 RT is tough... can't really maximize the use of that, because the command for the next cast would already need to be transmitted before the feedback from the previous cast is received. Just like I prefer procs like Acuity rather than an Ensorcell.

On Defensive spells: mana return
On Attack spells: Auto-apply 502 / 513 AS boosts
On Disabling Spells: Auto-Slow/Dispel?
On Utility spells: Randomly apply effects on other PCs in the room?

~Whirlin

>How about a flare that prevents ungrouped casters from casting due to a mama surge in the room.

mama surge implementation definitely needs more work.

I'll add to my list, based on the intriguing reverse 1006 commentary.

- Spell Truehand (result is D50 automagically added to 50 base, resulting 51 to 100 result) for the spell cast under the proc'd chance.

Doug

Heheh first idea struck down!

Second idea is still alive! "HAH! not going to get me copper! nyah see! I gotta talk like this see!"

1. previous spell costs no mana/less mana/mana returned 1-10 depending on lore random element.

2. Duration increase 1 second to 5 seconds depending on lore random element

3. Crit weight/damage weighting to next offensive cast.

GBB

'mana-surge' flare on rapidfire would disable caster types with a 'slow' of a number of seconds equal to whats remaining on rapidfire before they can cast again. this will help with sentries or other things that can kill you with an implode if they can get a cast off while staying true to what rapidfire would offer...outcasting your target.

Since the problem is only that a human can't use the proc effectively, why not just make it autocast? A free cast even.

Drauz

>Anything that relies on a "flare" is really not a reliable hunting tool. None of the other 3 pures has to rely on flares at all for either mass crowd control or instant kills.(LADYFLEURS)

Admittedly, my sorcerer does not rely on flares, but neither does he have "reliable" mass crowd control in any of the capped hunting areas. 410 (which wizards have) works some. So do 720 and 709 (709 VERY nicely but still not "reliable" especially with a large crowd), but given three or more creatures, sometimes even two depending on the exact creatures, his reaction about half the time is to move and wait for better odds. Nor do I have any instant kills. 711 is efficient when not outnumbered, 720 of limited use especially with leaving no corpse, and 719 gives me a crit kill on fetish masters about 25-50% of the time (AFTER 703, Hex curse, and possibly 709), and on soul siphons slightly more often.

Sorcerer is my only capped pure, so I can't speak to the efficacy of crowd control and instant kills of the other pures in the same situation, but for sorcerers it's far from the walk in the park you seem to think it is.

--Hal

Some thoughts from the PC. Some may have already made their way here, so excuse the double posts. Edited for content because I don't want to lose my posting privileges.

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double cast makes the most sense.

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extending the duration of rapid fire maybe

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Definitely agree with double cast... at such low % proc rates, and proc rate growth, I don't think it'd be that overpowered. Especially when you consider that the double-attack cast wouldn't be able to proc on the final hit of the target.

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I still like double cast (it's RAPID FIRE. For firing rapidly) but if they want something more unique some kind of special flare based on the element being used? Default to some generic elemental torrent of energy effect if it's a spell that wouldn't make sense on for some reason.

all do a small-mid extra crit hit potentially and cause:
earth - pelt with rocks, extra crush damage with special effect of causing target to kneel (extra damage if already prone?)
air - air blast knocks target off-balance, forces stance to offensive
fire - superheat held items (like elementals) potentially cause target to drop weapon/shield
ice / water - freeze target in place, like casting 512 (including enabling the 903 lore conversion to 1709)
lightning - rapid shock targets nervous system, prevents preping/casting spells for duration
steam - superneated steam blinds target causing AS/DS/EBP penalty
acid - similar to 705 disentegrate lore proc (reduce weapon/armor effectiveness)
if a spell that has random elemental effects or it's a non-elemental spell: assailed with raw elemental energy, maybe a random effect from above or incur RT or something

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I wouldn't mind a mana leech proc that's separate from the regular mana leech cooldown.

I really like the mana surge suggestion. (How about a flare that prevents ungrouped casters from casting due to a mana surge in the room.) That would be my #1 pick.


Since 515 can be used offensively and defensively, this would also work:

- Double/triple cast (It automatically recasts the previous spell cast at no mana cost.)

Air lore is not the right lore to be using for this, given every other offensive benefit takes fire. Either that, or we need to be able to 3x lores, because the way training is split 4 ways with such high seeds for all means that no matter what, every post-cap wizard is going to be pretty mediocre.

This is a good point!

Having a double cast at the full cost of the spell would indeed be a double-edged sword. If anything, I think it lends that option weight as it in a way balances itself. I agree that a flag would be a good option if this solution was implemented.

I would rather have something else if the extra cast costs mana. The mana pulse defense would be more useful for example. Most people are rarely going to see this happen as it is.

<<I still don't think flares are in any way the solution, especially if lores are involved.>> LadyFleur

Perhaps an idea from you would help?

Drauz

A couple of changes just rolled around to 515. Here are the details!

- The base cooldown of the spell has changed from 180 seconds to 90 seconds, and the reduction from Elemental Mana Control has changed to (0.3 * (Skill Bonus - 100)). This still results in a 30 second cooldown with 300 skill bonus in EMC, but makes the cooldown more forgiving with less skill in EMC.

- The air lore effect is no longer a chance to get 0s cast RT. It has been changed (With the same % chances) to cause the spell being cast to be channeled without incurring channeling roundtime. So, at 55 ranks of air lore, each spell cast has a 10% chance to be channeled while under the effect of Rapid Fire without hard RT. One thing to note is that when this effect occurs while casting a warding spell, the caster is treated as if they were in offensive stance for the purposes of determining the channeling bonus.

~ Konacon

So instead of going faster, we're going even slower with this 515 change, even when we've voiced that being slower is the cause of most of the problems here.

Instead of 19% chance of doubling my damage, firing my flares off my staff, procing the ensorcelling, I get a 19% chance to slightly increase my damage.

I think this change is a further nerf rather than a boon.

Well, did your cooldown time increase or decrease with this change, Drafix?

>- The base cooldown of the spell has changed from 180 seconds to 90 seconds, and the reduction from Elemental Mana Control has changed to (0.3 * (Skill Bonus - 100)). This still results in a 30 second cooldown with 300 skill bonus in EMC, but makes the cooldown more forgiving with less skill in EMC.

This is even more of a nerf. I don't understand why 29 seconds was not only not enough, you increased it to 30 seconds. Please reconsider so that it can be reduced further with sufficient post-cap training, not less.

As for the second part, this is better than 0 CT because a human can't use that, but I'm not sure it's enough to address the fact that wizards are now the only pures without the ability to ensure an instant kill with sufficient post-cap training and enhancives. Perhaps someone can run some numbers as to the efficacy of the channeled bolts.

Well, did your cooldown time increase or decrease with this change, Drafix?

Since I'm post cap with 202 emc, no change. This however is a positive change for lower level people who can't afford EMC.