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Hah! Right you are, sir!
Doug
DOUG
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/13/2017 11:52 PM CDT
Results from my testing
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Note 1: I didn't have enough TPs available to test if the value is greater than 1.5 but I was able to confirm that it is less than 2 points per rank
Note 2: All skill bonuses are rank-based and each value truncates. For example, 59 AS ranks adds 14 points [trunc(59/4)].
Note 3: character level bonus can be tested but would require two wizards. If it were two capped wizards they would likely need to each purchase identical alexandrite weapons plus encumbrance penalties. Without these it is likely that the 925 cast messaging would always be 'horribly unlucky'.
I started with 0x store bought robes (not tempered) and adjusted my encumbrance so that when 925 was cast at the item the messaging displayed was 'horribly unlucky' and would changed to 'barring bad luck' if I added 1 coin to my silvers total. I then went to the wizard workshop (bonus 100) and added enough silver to offset the bonus (50% encumberance). Next I zeroed all relevant skills, except for the required 25 wizard ranks, and used a fixskill that I had available. I then cast 925 at the robes and received the 'needs a miracle messaging'. I then had to determine exactly how much encumbrance reduction it took to reach the 'nearly impossible' messaging threshold. It ended up being 6% (12 points). So, zeroing out my skills changed the messaging from 'horribly unlucky' to needs a miracle (50% encumbrance/100 points) plus the additional 6% (12 points) for a total of 56% encumbrance (-112 points).
I then relearned skills, one at a time, and measured the decreased encumbrance for each. Since each 1% reduced encumbrance equals 2 points I was able to determine the points value for each skill.
Wiz ranks > 25 (15 * 2): 30 points
MjE ranks (25/2): 12 points
MnE ranks (33/2): 16 points
EMC ranks (42/2): 21 points
AS ranks (60/4): 15 points
MIU ranks (72/4): 18 points
Total points: 112
To verify the stat bonuses I used a BOOST ENHANCIVE STAT login reward. I then calculated the reduced encumbrance from the relevant bonus increases. It was still possible that one of them may have had the bonus halved. So, I retested using another BOOST STAT reward but this time I also added a +9 INT enhancive to make sure that INT bonus wasn't halved.
These are the totals for my character (I'll use level/2)
Level 40/2: 20
Wizard(40 * 2): 80
MjE (25/2): 12
MnE(33/2): 16
EMC(42/2): 21
AS(60/4: 15
MIU(72/4: 18
AUR: 20
LOG: 30
INT: 24
Total: 256
When I cast 925 at a 1x item with no encumbrance, no familiar, no node/workshop the messaging I receive is 'easily enough barring bad luck' messaging. Even with 256 calculated points total I can fail a 1x cast. Obviously, we are missing something. Some possibilities are the first 25 wizard ranks (50 points) aren't included in the bonus, the endroll needs to much higher than +101, perhaps +201 for success, there is a substantial enchanting base difficulty penalty, or some other unknown such as a bug with the 925 cast messaging.
Mark
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| Enchanting Formula: Skills/Stats |
| Skill/Stat | Points Calculation |
| Level | Unknown at this time |
| Aura | full bonus |
| Logic | full bonus |
| Intuition | full bonus |
| Wizard (900s) | (ranks * 2) up to level |
| Wizard (900s)>level | (ranks * 1.5) see note 1 |
| MjE (500s) | ranks/2 |
| MnE (400s) | ranks/2 |
| EMC | ranks/2 |
| AS | ranks/4 |
| MIU | ranks/4 |
.
Note 1: I didn't have enough TPs available to test if the value is greater than 1.5 but I was able to confirm that it is less than 2 points per rank
Note 2: All skill bonuses are rank-based and each value truncates. For example, 59 AS ranks adds 14 points [trunc(59/4)].
Note 3: character level bonus can be tested but would require two wizards. If it were two capped wizards they would likely need to each purchase identical alexandrite weapons plus encumbrance penalties. Without these it is likely that the 925 cast messaging would always be 'horribly unlucky'.
I started with 0x store bought robes (not tempered) and adjusted my encumbrance so that when 925 was cast at the item the messaging displayed was 'horribly unlucky' and would changed to 'barring bad luck' if I added 1 coin to my silvers total. I then went to the wizard workshop (bonus 100) and added enough silver to offset the bonus (50% encumberance). Next I zeroed all relevant skills, except for the required 25 wizard ranks, and used a fixskill that I had available. I then cast 925 at the robes and received the 'needs a miracle messaging'. I then had to determine exactly how much encumbrance reduction it took to reach the 'nearly impossible' messaging threshold. It ended up being 6% (12 points). So, zeroing out my skills changed the messaging from 'horribly unlucky' to needs a miracle (50% encumbrance/100 points) plus the additional 6% (12 points) for a total of 56% encumbrance (-112 points).
I then relearned skills, one at a time, and measured the decreased encumbrance for each. Since each 1% reduced encumbrance equals 2 points I was able to determine the points value for each skill.
Wiz ranks > 25 (15 * 2): 30 points
MjE ranks (25/2): 12 points
MnE ranks (33/2): 16 points
EMC ranks (42/2): 21 points
AS ranks (60/4): 15 points
MIU ranks (72/4): 18 points
Total points: 112
To verify the stat bonuses I used a BOOST ENHANCIVE STAT login reward. I then calculated the reduced encumbrance from the relevant bonus increases. It was still possible that one of them may have had the bonus halved. So, I retested using another BOOST STAT reward but this time I also added a +9 INT enhancive to make sure that INT bonus wasn't halved.
These are the totals for my character (I'll use level/2)
Level 40/2: 20
Wizard(40 * 2): 80
MjE (25/2): 12
MnE(33/2): 16
EMC(42/2): 21
AS(60/4: 15
MIU(72/4: 18
AUR: 20
LOG: 30
INT: 24
Total: 256
When I cast 925 at a 1x item with no encumbrance, no familiar, no node/workshop the messaging I receive is 'easily enough barring bad luck' messaging. Even with 256 calculated points total I can fail a 1x cast. Obviously, we are missing something. Some possibilities are the first 25 wizard ranks (50 points) aren't included in the bonus, the endroll needs to much higher than +101, perhaps +201 for success, there is a substantial enchanting base difficulty penalty, or some other unknown such as a bug with the 925 cast messaging.
Mark
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 01:26 AM CDT
Good stuff! It's late so I'll just post a few notes / comments.
>> When I cast 925 at a 1x item with no encumbrance, no familiar, no node/workshop the messaging I receive is 'easily enough barring bad luck' messaging. Even with 256 calculated points total I can fail a 1x cast. Obviously, we are missing something. Some possibilities are the first 25 wizard ranks (50 points) aren't included in the bonus, the endroll needs to much higher than +101, perhaps +201 for success, there is a substantial enchanting base difficulty penalty, or some other unknown such as a bug with the 925 cast messaging.
What was the 1x item? Even basic leather armor has a modifier of -10.
>> Intuition full bonus
I will retest INT - I have an +9 INT enhancive so it is easy enough to isolate to just INT. From my original data, I went from a bonus of 30 to a bonus of 34 which provided an enchanting bonus of +2. I'm expecting to see the same result on the restest.
Note: If at any point you want to test a specific stat or skill I have 1 or more enhancives that will make testing in isolation easier. Just let me know! :-)
>> AS ranks/4
For my testing of AS, I was unable to get a change in enchanting bonus until it would increase by 2 each time (I walked it from 0 to over 100) so there's some additional calculation going on here... like 2 * (Ranks / 8)
>> MnE ranks (33/2): 16 points
I'll test MnE on my next FIXSKILL but I would wager that you are getting 0 points for this which might account for some of that unknown factor you are looking for.
>> EMC|ranks/2
This doesn't jive for me...
- Looking back at my test data, taking EMC bonus from Rank 0 (0 bonus) to Rank 1 (5 bonus) made no difference and going to EMC Rank 2 (10 bonus) increased enchanting modifier of +2.
- Later on going from EMC Rank 10 (50 bonus) to EMC Rank 15 (70 bonus) produced an enchanting modifier of +4
I'll need to do more testing but I'm not sure that EMC ranks / 2 fits.
>> Wizard (900s)>level|(ranks * 1.5) see note 1
From my data: 105 Wizard Ranks to 111 Wizard Ranks produced a bonus of +10. I probably should have walked this 1 rank at a time to get a better feel for were truncation was removing fractions. Good news is that I still have some untrained wizard ranks remaining for my 6x adamantine attempt so I can refine and validate this when I train those in a few weeks.
-- Robert aka Faulkil
SomeWizard hurls a stream of fire at a water elemental!
A heavy barrier of stone momentarily forms around a water elemental and blocks the attack!
>> When I cast 925 at a 1x item with no encumbrance, no familiar, no node/workshop the messaging I receive is 'easily enough barring bad luck' messaging. Even with 256 calculated points total I can fail a 1x cast. Obviously, we are missing something. Some possibilities are the first 25 wizard ranks (50 points) aren't included in the bonus, the endroll needs to much higher than +101, perhaps +201 for success, there is a substantial enchanting base difficulty penalty, or some other unknown such as a bug with the 925 cast messaging.
What was the 1x item? Even basic leather armor has a modifier of -10.
>> Intuition full bonus
I will retest INT - I have an +9 INT enhancive so it is easy enough to isolate to just INT. From my original data, I went from a bonus of 30 to a bonus of 34 which provided an enchanting bonus of +2. I'm expecting to see the same result on the restest.
Note: If at any point you want to test a specific stat or skill I have 1 or more enhancives that will make testing in isolation easier. Just let me know! :-)
>> AS ranks/4
For my testing of AS, I was unable to get a change in enchanting bonus until it would increase by 2 each time (I walked it from 0 to over 100) so there's some additional calculation going on here... like 2 * (Ranks / 8)
>> MnE ranks (33/2): 16 points
I'll test MnE on my next FIXSKILL but I would wager that you are getting 0 points for this which might account for some of that unknown factor you are looking for.
>> EMC|ranks/2
This doesn't jive for me...
- Looking back at my test data, taking EMC bonus from Rank 0 (0 bonus) to Rank 1 (5 bonus) made no difference and going to EMC Rank 2 (10 bonus) increased enchanting modifier of +2.
- Later on going from EMC Rank 10 (50 bonus) to EMC Rank 15 (70 bonus) produced an enchanting modifier of +4
I'll need to do more testing but I'm not sure that EMC ranks / 2 fits.
>> Wizard (900s)>level|(ranks * 1.5) see note 1
From my data: 105 Wizard Ranks to 111 Wizard Ranks produced a bonus of +10. I probably should have walked this 1 rank at a time to get a better feel for were truncation was removing fractions. Good news is that I still have some untrained wizard ranks remaining for my 6x adamantine attempt so I can refine and validate this when I train those in a few weeks.
-- Robert aka Faulkil
SomeWizard hurls a stream of fire at a water elemental!
A heavy barrier of stone momentarily forms around a water elemental and blocks the attack!
KRAKII
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 07:02 AM CDT
">> EMC|ranks/2
This doesn't jive for me...
- Looking back at my test data, taking EMC bonus from Rank 0 (0 bonus) to Rank 1 (5 bonus) made no difference and going to EMC Rank 2 (10 bonus) increased enchanting modifier of +2.
- Later on going from EMC Rank 10 (50 bonus) to EMC Rank 15 (70 bonus) produced an enchanting modifier of +4
I'll need to do more testing but I'm not sure that EMC ranks / 2 fits." -- Other Robert, quoting & replying
.
Except for that first rank, this sounds like "skill/5", but... yeah.
I still think you guys have too much time on your hands, but this right here is simply awesome systemic research. Thanks for putting out the effort for the community!
This doesn't jive for me...
- Looking back at my test data, taking EMC bonus from Rank 0 (0 bonus) to Rank 1 (5 bonus) made no difference and going to EMC Rank 2 (10 bonus) increased enchanting modifier of +2.
- Later on going from EMC Rank 10 (50 bonus) to EMC Rank 15 (70 bonus) produced an enchanting modifier of +4
I'll need to do more testing but I'm not sure that EMC ranks / 2 fits." -- Other Robert, quoting & replying
.
Except for that first rank, this sounds like "skill/5", but... yeah.
I still think you guys have too much time on your hands, but this right here is simply awesome systemic research. Thanks for putting out the effort for the community!
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 10:17 AM CDT
Okay - I've slept and and more awake than I was when posting last night! Let's see what else...
Part of Mark's post
These are the totals for my character (I'll use level/2)
Level 40/2: 20
Wizard(40 * 2): 80
MjE (25/2): 12
MnE(33/2): 16
EMC(42/2): 21
AS(60/4: 15
MIU(72/4: 18
AUR: 20
LOG: 30
INT: 24
Total: 256
When I cast 925 at a 1x item with no encumbrance, no familiar, no node/workshop the messaging I receive is 'easily enough barring bad luck' messaging. Even with 256 calculated points total I can fail a 1x cast. Obviously, we are missing something. Some possibilities are the first 25 wizard ranks (50 points) aren't included in the bonus, the endroll needs to much higher than +101, perhaps +201 for success, there is a substantial enchanting base difficulty penalty, or some other unknown such as a bug with the 925 cast messaging.
First thing I notice is that when using the (Wizard Level / 2) formula there is a 'penalty' of -10 per current enchant (so -50 should be applied to your total for the current enchant of the item if).
That said, maybe we should consider the alternate formula version where we use Wizard Level and instead look at target enchant level vs. current enchant level. This is a wash for a capped wizard but produces a larger penalty for non-capped wizards.
>> Some possibilities are the first 25 wizard ranks (50 points) aren't included in the bonus
This seems reasonable and would not have shown up in my incremental testing. I need to do more with the full formula in various real cast situations now!
>> Note 1: I didn't have enough TPs available to test if the value is greater than 1.5 but I was able to confirm that it is less than 2 points per rank
Thought about this some more. With the jump in 6 wizard spells if the bonus was 1.5 then that should have produced a bonus of exactly 9. Current value + (exactly) 9 would be subject to the same rounding rules as Current value would be so I'll stand by 1.6 over 1.5 being the bonus for now (but will still test step by step when I train my additional wizard ranks)
>> AS ranks/4
>> MIU ranks/4
Both for MIU and AS when I walked these up I saw 2 point changes in bonus going:
- From Rank 15 (bonus 70) to Rank 16 (bonus 74)
- and the next jump from Rank 23 (bonus 99) to Rank 24 (bonus 102)
- and the next jump (tested for AS) going from Rank 31(bonus 122) to Rank 32 (bonus 124)
Which would be consistent with (2 * (ranks / 8)) which would be very similar to the ranks / 4 you are observing.
So making some adjustments to the formula and running back through your scenario let's try this:
Wizard Level 40: 40
Wizard spell Ranks > 25 to level (2 * 15 Ranks): 30
Wizard Spells > Level (1.6 * 0 Ranks): 0
MjE (2 * Round(25 Ranks / 4)): 12
MnE (33 Ranks / 2): 16 <<-- Let's use this in place of the mysterious 10 points for now!
EMC (142 bonus / 5): 28
AS (2 * (60 Ranks / 8)): 14
MIU (2 * (72 Ranks / 8)): 18
AUR 20: 20
LOG 30: 30
INT (24 / 2): 12 <-- to be retested to see if Full INT bonus is being provided.
Target Enchant Mod (-10 * 10 target enchant value): -100
Total Points: 120
Still a bit too high for needed a 101 but potentially much closer? What was the material of your 1x project?
Also using the above for my adamantine example project (but I'll use the partial enchant target value instead of the full enchant starting value this time) we get:
Formula example using current project for Faulkil:
Level: 100
Wiz: 240
Mje: 20
*Mne: 20*
EMC: 202 (302)
MIU: 202 (302)
AS: 202 (302)
Aura: 100 (35)
Logic: 100 (25)
Int: 100 (30)
In a guild workshop with a familiar present.
Not Encumbered or injured.
4x (+17) going to 5x (+22) adamantine weapon.
Using a Dirtokh potion (no pre-temper potion required)
Wizard Level: 100
Wizard spell Ranks > 25 to level (2 * 75 Ranks): 150
Wizard Spells > Level (1.6 * 140 Ranks): 224
MjE (2 * Round(20 Ranks / 4)): 10
MnE (20 Ranks / 2): 10
EMC (302 bonus / 5): 60
AS (2 * (202 Ranks / 8)): 50
MIU (2 * (202 Ranks / 8)): 50
AUR 35: 35
LOG 25: 25
INT (30 / 2): 15 <-- Half bonus to be re-validated.
Workshop bonus: 100
Familiar Present bonus: 20
Not Encumbered or Injured: 0
Target Enchant Mod (-10 * 22 target enchant value): -220
Material modifier: -500
Total Points: 129
Pretty close! I think (but not 100% certain at the moment) that I trained Wizard to the edge for this but I may have also just jumped it up 5 or 10 Wizard Spell ranks at this point as well so I'll need to dig out my logs to confirm how much variance (points) there could be from the best case edge vs. my current training (which I will do later today or tomorrow latest).
Feel like we are getting a bit closer on this...
-- Robert aka Faulkil
SomeWizard hurls a stream of fire at a water elemental!
A heavy barrier of stone momentarily forms around a water elemental and blocks the attack!
Part of Mark's post
These are the totals for my character (I'll use level/2)
Level 40/2: 20
Wizard(40 * 2): 80
MjE (25/2): 12
MnE(33/2): 16
EMC(42/2): 21
AS(60/4: 15
MIU(72/4: 18
AUR: 20
LOG: 30
INT: 24
Total: 256
When I cast 925 at a 1x item with no encumbrance, no familiar, no node/workshop the messaging I receive is 'easily enough barring bad luck' messaging. Even with 256 calculated points total I can fail a 1x cast. Obviously, we are missing something. Some possibilities are the first 25 wizard ranks (50 points) aren't included in the bonus, the endroll needs to much higher than +101, perhaps +201 for success, there is a substantial enchanting base difficulty penalty, or some other unknown such as a bug with the 925 cast messaging.
First thing I notice is that when using the (Wizard Level / 2) formula there is a 'penalty' of -10 per current enchant (so -50 should be applied to your total for the current enchant of the item if).
That said, maybe we should consider the alternate formula version where we use Wizard Level and instead look at target enchant level vs. current enchant level. This is a wash for a capped wizard but produces a larger penalty for non-capped wizards.
>> Some possibilities are the first 25 wizard ranks (50 points) aren't included in the bonus
This seems reasonable and would not have shown up in my incremental testing. I need to do more with the full formula in various real cast situations now!
>> Note 1: I didn't have enough TPs available to test if the value is greater than 1.5 but I was able to confirm that it is less than 2 points per rank
Thought about this some more. With the jump in 6 wizard spells if the bonus was 1.5 then that should have produced a bonus of exactly 9. Current value + (exactly) 9 would be subject to the same rounding rules as Current value would be so I'll stand by 1.6 over 1.5 being the bonus for now (but will still test step by step when I train my additional wizard ranks)
>> AS ranks/4
>> MIU ranks/4
Both for MIU and AS when I walked these up I saw 2 point changes in bonus going:
- From Rank 15 (bonus 70) to Rank 16 (bonus 74)
- and the next jump from Rank 23 (bonus 99) to Rank 24 (bonus 102)
- and the next jump (tested for AS) going from Rank 31(bonus 122) to Rank 32 (bonus 124)
Which would be consistent with (2 * (ranks / 8)) which would be very similar to the ranks / 4 you are observing.
So making some adjustments to the formula and running back through your scenario let's try this:
Wizard Level 40: 40
Wizard spell Ranks > 25 to level (2 * 15 Ranks): 30
Wizard Spells > Level (1.6 * 0 Ranks): 0
MjE (2 * Round(25 Ranks / 4)): 12
MnE (33 Ranks / 2): 16 <<-- Let's use this in place of the mysterious 10 points for now!
EMC (142 bonus / 5): 28
AS (2 * (60 Ranks / 8)): 14
MIU (2 * (72 Ranks / 8)): 18
AUR 20: 20
LOG 30: 30
INT (24 / 2): 12 <-- to be retested to see if Full INT bonus is being provided.
Target Enchant Mod (-10 * 10 target enchant value): -100
Total Points: 120
Still a bit too high for needed a 101 but potentially much closer? What was the material of your 1x project?
Also using the above for my adamantine example project (but I'll use the partial enchant target value instead of the full enchant starting value this time) we get:
Formula example using current project for Faulkil:
Level: 100
Wiz: 240
Mje: 20
*Mne: 20*
EMC: 202 (302)
MIU: 202 (302)
AS: 202 (302)
Aura: 100 (35)
Logic: 100 (25)
Int: 100 (30)
In a guild workshop with a familiar present.
Not Encumbered or injured.
4x (+17) going to 5x (+22) adamantine weapon.
Using a Dirtokh potion (no pre-temper potion required)
Wizard Level: 100
Wizard spell Ranks > 25 to level (2 * 75 Ranks): 150
Wizard Spells > Level (1.6 * 140 Ranks): 224
MjE (2 * Round(20 Ranks / 4)): 10
MnE (20 Ranks / 2): 10
EMC (302 bonus / 5): 60
AS (2 * (202 Ranks / 8)): 50
MIU (2 * (202 Ranks / 8)): 50
AUR 35: 35
LOG 25: 25
INT (30 / 2): 15 <-- Half bonus to be re-validated.
Workshop bonus: 100
Familiar Present bonus: 20
Not Encumbered or Injured: 0
Target Enchant Mod (-10 * 22 target enchant value): -220
Material modifier: -500
Total Points: 129
Pretty close! I think (but not 100% certain at the moment) that I trained Wizard to the edge for this but I may have also just jumped it up 5 or 10 Wizard Spell ranks at this point as well so I'll need to dig out my logs to confirm how much variance (points) there could be from the best case edge vs. my current training (which I will do later today or tomorrow latest).
Feel like we are getting a bit closer on this...
-- Robert aka Faulkil
SomeWizard hurls a stream of fire at a water elemental!
A heavy barrier of stone momentarily forms around a water elemental and blocks the attack!
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 10:23 AM CDT
Another observation: It is interesting to note (though potentially coincidental) that had I used the full target enchant (treated +22 as full 5x resulting in a -250 modifier instead of -220) that my ending value would have been 99.
-- Robert
SomeWizard hurls a stream of fire at a water elemental!
A heavy barrier of stone momentarily forms around a water elemental and blocks the attack!
-- Robert
SomeWizard hurls a stream of fire at a water elemental!
A heavy barrier of stone momentarily forms around a water elemental and blocks the attack!
GS4-NAOS
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 12:42 PM CDT
Uh, hey. So, Minor Elemental ranks are a factor in Enchanting success. Who knows what past me was thinking (and I can't find the post.) Sorry, but at least now you know! Yay!
--
Naope
--
Naope
VANKRASN39
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 12:49 PM CDT
https://gswiki.play.net/Enchant_Item_(925)#Channel
this entire page was GM confirmed when it was mostly rewritten for the spell update
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 12:58 PM CDT
Hey Naos (aka Naope)! Good to see your NIR on the forums again! And in the Enchanting folder of all places!
Hope your sudden and unexpected re-appearance fortells of positive things to come! But glad to see you are alive and kicking in any case!
-- Robert
SomeWizard hurls a stream of fire at a water elemental!
A heavy barrier of stone momentarily forms around a water elemental and blocks the attack!
Hope your sudden and unexpected re-appearance fortells of positive things to come! But glad to see you are alive and kicking in any case!
-- Robert
SomeWizard hurls a stream of fire at a water elemental!
A heavy barrier of stone momentarily forms around a water elemental and blocks the attack!
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 12:59 PM CDT
First things first. I forgot about this.
.
WIZARD RANKS
1) 2 points per rank up to level
2) 1.5 points per rank greater than level to trunc(1.5x level)
3) 1 point per rank for all additional ranks seems likely since it was also stated that all wizard ranks contribute at least as much as any other factor. Stat bonuses add 1 per. This needs to be tested.
>>From my data: 105 Wizard Ranks to 111 Wizard Ranks produced a bonus of +10. I probably should have walked this 1 rank at a time to get a better feel for were truncation was removing fractions. Good news is that I still have some untrained wizard ranks remaining for my 6x adamantine attempt so I can refine and validate this when I train those in a few weeks. -- PEREGRINEFALCON
WIZARD RANKS greater than level to 1.5x level
Messaging only changes at 2 point bonus increments, truncated. A bonus of 1.5 is insufficient to affect the messaging [trunc(1.5/2) = 1]. Divide the value in the integer column by 2 and truncate to determine the encumbrance offset percentage. Eg.,the sixth wizard rank has a bonus of 9 (6 x 1.5) and a 4% encumbrance offset [trunc(9/2) = 4].
.
With a value of 1.5 points per rank there is a 5% (10 point) encumbrance offset from ranks 5 (3%) to 11 (8%). For a capped character it would be a 5% offset (10 points) from ranks 105 to 111 which is what you observed.
AS and MIU (Ranks/4)
The messaging changed at 8 rank increments for both AS and MIU and was offset by adding 1% encumbrance (2 pts.) at each increment. So, the bonus was 2 points per 8 ranks or 1 point per 4 ranks (ranks/4).
EMC (Ranks/2)
Messaging changed at 4 rank increments and offset by 1% encumbrance (2 pts.) at each increment. Therefore the bonus is 2 per 4 ranks or 1 per 2 ranks (ranks/2)
STATS: AUR, LOG, INT (1 point per stat bonus)
Aura (AUR): 100 (20) ... 110 (25)
Logic (LOG): 100 (30)... 110 (35)
Intuition (INT): 79 (24)... 97 (33)
Non-enhanced bonus total: (20 + 30 + 24) = 74
Enhanced bonus total: (25 + 35 + 33) = 93
Difference: 93 - 74 = 19
Using a boost enhancive stat reward and also holding a +9 INT bonus runestaff required 9% additional encumbrance (18 pts) to offset the enhanced stat bonuses (19 pts). From these results I concluded that the full bonus for each stat was added.
More to follow.
Mark
| I have a brief addendum to this announcement. |
| The contribution of Wizard Base spell ranks to the success of enchanting has been adjusted. The contribution up to 1x per level and through 1.5x per level remains as it was previously. Ranks trained beyond 1.5x per level now contribute less to success. |
| It's unlikely that enchanters will notice any significant difference in success rates unless they are very low in level attempting higher level enchanting projects. |
| Naos |
.
WIZARD RANKS
1) 2 points per rank up to level
2) 1.5 points per rank greater than level to trunc(1.5x level)
3) 1 point per rank for all additional ranks seems likely since it was also stated that all wizard ranks contribute at least as much as any other factor. Stat bonuses add 1 per. This needs to be tested.
>>From my data: 105 Wizard Ranks to 111 Wizard Ranks produced a bonus of +10. I probably should have walked this 1 rank at a time to get a better feel for were truncation was removing fractions. Good news is that I still have some untrained wizard ranks remaining for my 6x adamantine attempt so I can refine and validate this when I train those in a few weeks. -- PEREGRINEFALCON
WIZARD RANKS greater than level to 1.5x level
Messaging only changes at 2 point bonus increments, truncated. A bonus of 1.5 is insufficient to affect the messaging [trunc(1.5/2) = 1]. Divide the value in the integer column by 2 and truncate to determine the encumbrance offset percentage. Eg.,the sixth wizard rank has a bonus of 9 (6 x 1.5) and a 4% encumbrance offset [trunc(9/2) = 4].
.
| Rank | Bonus | Integer | Messaging | Encumbrance Offset |
| 1 | 1.5 | 1 | no change | 0 |
| 2 | 3.0 | 3 | change | 1% |
| 3 | 4.5 | 4 | change | 2% |
| 4 | 6.0 | 6 | change | 3% |
| 5 | 7.5 | 7 | no change | 3% |
| 6 | 9.0 | 9 | change | 4% |
| 7 | 10.5 | 10 | change | 5% |
| 8 | 12.0 | 12 | change | 6% |
| 9 | 13.5 | 13 | no change | 6% |
| 10 | 15.0 | 15 | change | 7% |
| 11 | 16.5 | 16 | change | 8% |
| 12 | 18 | 18 | change | 9% |
| .. | .. | .. | .. | .. |
| 48 | 72 | 72 | change | 36% |
| 49 | 73.5 | 73 | no change | 36% |
| 50 | 75 | 75 | change | 37% |
With a value of 1.5 points per rank there is a 5% (10 point) encumbrance offset from ranks 5 (3%) to 11 (8%). For a capped character it would be a 5% offset (10 points) from ranks 105 to 111 which is what you observed.
AS and MIU (Ranks/4)
The messaging changed at 8 rank increments for both AS and MIU and was offset by adding 1% encumbrance (2 pts.) at each increment. So, the bonus was 2 points per 8 ranks or 1 point per 4 ranks (ranks/4).
EMC (Ranks/2)
Messaging changed at 4 rank increments and offset by 1% encumbrance (2 pts.) at each increment. Therefore the bonus is 2 per 4 ranks or 1 per 2 ranks (ranks/2)
STATS: AUR, LOG, INT (1 point per stat bonus)
Aura (AUR): 100 (20) ... 110 (25)
Logic (LOG): 100 (30)... 110 (35)
Intuition (INT): 79 (24)... 97 (33)
Non-enhanced bonus total: (20 + 30 + 24) = 74
Enhanced bonus total: (25 + 35 + 33) = 93
Difference: 93 - 74 = 19
Using a boost enhancive stat reward and also holding a +9 INT bonus runestaff required 9% additional encumbrance (18 pts) to offset the enhanced stat bonuses (19 pts). From these results I concluded that the full bonus for each stat was added.
More to follow.
Mark
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 01:06 PM CDT
| Hey Naos (aka Naope)! Good to see your NIR on the forums again! And in the Enchanting folder of all places! |
| Hope your sudden and unexpected re-appearance fortells of positive things to come! But glad to see you are alive and kicking in any case! |
| -- Robert |
.
Seconded!
But I think he just enjoys the suffering. Our suffering :)
We need help!
Mark
VANKRASN39
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 01:46 PM CDT
>So, Minor Elemental ranks are a factor in Enchanting success. Who knows what past me was thinking (and I can't find the post.) Sorry, but at least now you know! Yay!
http://www.play.net/gs4/info/enchant_notes.asp
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 01:48 PM CDT
Nobody reads the officials for current or correct information!
-- Robert
SomeWizard hurls a stream of fire at a water elemental!
A heavy barrier of stone momentarily forms around a water elemental and blocks the attack!
-- Robert
SomeWizard hurls a stream of fire at a water elemental!
A heavy barrier of stone momentarily forms around a water elemental and blocks the attack!
WORDMAGIC
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 02:16 PM CDT
<3 Naos x eleventy billion
Please now go make wizards better than they are currently. We all know you have it in you!
~Amanda, player of Treeva
Please now go make wizards better than they are currently. We all know you have it in you!
~Amanda, player of Treeva
DOUG
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 03:36 PM CDT
Good! It needs one of them new-fangled GM approved buttons, then!
Doug
Doug
DOUG
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 03:37 PM CDT
Welcome back, Nawp. Now I know why the Elf died this morning. . . out of practice, are we?
Doug
Doug
VANKRASN39
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 03:38 PM CDT
>Good! It needs one of them new-fangled GM approved buttons, then!
are you volunteering for that project?
VUWH60A
DOUG
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 05:22 PM CDT
>>are you volunteering for that project?
Bah. If my error rate were lower. . .
Doug
Bah. If my error rate were lower. . .
Doug
GS4-NAOS
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/14/2017 11:22 PM CDT
Hey, I think maybe I wrote that document! Crazy!
--
Naos
--
Naos
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/15/2017 04:29 PM CDT
Confirmed via my logs that I went from 230 Wizard Spells to 240 Wizard spells in one jump so there could be up to 9 points(?) more than I need for this 5x project. This project will wrap up in about 5 days so I'll use that opportunity to test EXACTLY what it takes to bring the project to 6x and will also step wizard ranks up 1 at a time from 240 to at least 260 to validate 1 point per Wizard spell over 1.5x level.
Recalculating Faulkil's example using latest and greatest assumptions:
Level: 100
Wiz: 240
Mje: 20
Mne: 20
EMC: 202 (302)
MIU: 202 (302)
AS: 202 (302)
Aura: 100 (35)
Logic: 100 (25)
Int: 100 (30)
In a guild workshop with a familiar present.
Not Encumbered or injured.
4x (+17) going to 5x (+22) adamantine weapon.
Using a Dirtokh potion (no pre-temper potion required)
Wizard Level: 100
Wizard spell Ranks > 25 to level (2 * 75 Ranks): 150
Wizard Spell Ranks > Level up to 1.5x level (1.5 * 50 Ranks): 75
Wizard Spell Ranks > 1.5x level (1.0 & 90 Ranks): 90 <-- REV to validate how much each additional wizard rank adds over 1.5x level.
MjE (2 * Round(20 Ranks / 4)): 10
MnE (20 Ranks / 2): 10
EMC (202 Ranks / 2): 101 <-- REV: Need to re-validate / confirm this is not EMC bonus / 5.
AS (2 * (202 Ranks / 8)): 50
MIU (2 * (202 Ranks / 8)): 50
AUR 35: 35
LOG 25: 25
INT (30 / 2): 15 <-- Half bonus to be re-validated.
Workshop bonus: 100
Familiar Present bonus: 20
Not Encumbered or Injured: 0
Target Enchant Mod (-10 * 22 target enchant value): -220 <-- (-220 or -250 here)?
Material modifier: -500
Total Points: 111 (or 126 if giving full credit for INT bonus).
-- Robert
You see a fairly typical Lord Kai.
It appears to be in good shape.
Recalculating Faulkil's example using latest and greatest assumptions:
Level: 100
Wiz: 240
Mje: 20
Mne: 20
EMC: 202 (302)
MIU: 202 (302)
AS: 202 (302)
Aura: 100 (35)
Logic: 100 (25)
Int: 100 (30)
In a guild workshop with a familiar present.
Not Encumbered or injured.
4x (+17) going to 5x (+22) adamantine weapon.
Using a Dirtokh potion (no pre-temper potion required)
Wizard Level: 100
Wizard spell Ranks > 25 to level (2 * 75 Ranks): 150
Wizard Spell Ranks > Level up to 1.5x level (1.5 * 50 Ranks): 75
Wizard Spell Ranks > 1.5x level (1.0 & 90 Ranks): 90 <-- REV to validate how much each additional wizard rank adds over 1.5x level.
MjE (2 * Round(20 Ranks / 4)): 10
MnE (20 Ranks / 2): 10
EMC (202 Ranks / 2): 101 <-- REV: Need to re-validate / confirm this is not EMC bonus / 5.
AS (2 * (202 Ranks / 8)): 50
MIU (2 * (202 Ranks / 8)): 50
AUR 35: 35
LOG 25: 25
INT (30 / 2): 15 <-- Half bonus to be re-validated.
Workshop bonus: 100
Familiar Present bonus: 20
Not Encumbered or Injured: 0
Target Enchant Mod (-10 * 22 target enchant value): -220 <-- (-220 or -250 here)?
Material modifier: -500
Total Points: 111 (or 126 if giving full credit for INT bonus).
-- Robert
You see a fairly typical Lord Kai.
It appears to be in good shape.
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/15/2017 09:54 PM CDT
>EMC (202 Ranks / 2): 101 <-- REV: Need to re-validate / confirm this is not EMC bonus / 5 -- Robert
I'm posting these tables as general information for all enchanters.
Every 4 EMC ranks increases an enchanter's skill by 2 points. It is unclear if the bonus increases 1 point per 2 ranks since the testing methodology limits results at 2 bonus point increments. Every 4 EMC ranks adds a bonus equivalent to a 1% encumbrance penalty and vice versa. The encumbrance penalties are based on each character's body weight. A character with a body weight of 200 lbs. will lose 2 points toward enchanting success for every 2 lbs. of encumbered weight. A character with a body weight of 300 lbs would lose 2 pts for every 3 lbs of encumbered weight.
Encumbrance, with its 1% per 2 point penalty relationship, is the yardstick being used to calculate the various enchant formula bonuses and penalties.
See below for the encumbrance penalty formula as it applies to enchanting
.
The table below applies to both Arcane Symbols and Magic Item Use. Every 8 ranks increases an enchanter's skill by 2 points. With AS/MIU ranks each 1% encumbrance penalty is equivalent to an 8 rank AS or MIU bonus. A 10% encumbrance penalty equals the bonus gained from 80 ranks (20 points) of either AS or MIU.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Example
Character body weight: 136 lbs
Encumbrance: 70 lbs
2 * .ceil(100 * (70/136))
2 * .ceil( 100 * .5147058)
2 * .ceil(51.47058)
2 * 52 = 104 point penalty
Mark
I'm posting these tables as general information for all enchanters.
Every 4 EMC ranks increases an enchanter's skill by 2 points. It is unclear if the bonus increases 1 point per 2 ranks since the testing methodology limits results at 2 bonus point increments. Every 4 EMC ranks adds a bonus equivalent to a 1% encumbrance penalty and vice versa. The encumbrance penalties are based on each character's body weight. A character with a body weight of 200 lbs. will lose 2 points toward enchanting success for every 2 lbs. of encumbered weight. A character with a body weight of 300 lbs would lose 2 pts for every 3 lbs of encumbered weight.
Encumbrance, with its 1% per 2 point penalty relationship, is the yardstick being used to calculate the various enchant formula bonuses and penalties.
See below for the encumbrance penalty formula as it applies to enchanting
.
| Elemental Mana Control |
| RANKS | SKILL | ENCHANT BONUS | ENCUMBRANCE % | |||
| 4 | 20 | 2 | 1 | |||
| 8 | 40 | 4 | 2 | |||
| 12 | 58 | 6 | 3 | |||
| 16 | 74 | 8 | 4 | |||
| 20 | 90 | 10 | 5 | |||
| 24 | 102 | 12 | 6 | |||
| 28 | 114 | 14 | 7 | |||
| 32 | 124 | 16 | 8 | |||
| 36 | 132 | 18 | 9 | |||
| 40 | 140 | 20 | 10 | |||
| 44 | 144 | 22 | 11 | |||
| 48 | 148 | 24 | 12 | |||
| 52 | 152 | 26 | 13 | |||
| 56 | 156 | 28 | 14 | |||
| 60 | 160 | 30 | 15 | |||
| .. | .. | .. | .. | |||
| 100 | 200 | 50 | 25 | |||
| .. | .. | .. | .. | |||
| 140 | 240 | 70 | 35 | |||
| .. | .. | .. | .. | |||
| 180 | 280 | 90 | 45 | |||
| .. | .. | .. | .. | |||
| 200 | 300 | 100 | 50 |
The table below applies to both Arcane Symbols and Magic Item Use. Every 8 ranks increases an enchanter's skill by 2 points. With AS/MIU ranks each 1% encumbrance penalty is equivalent to an 8 rank AS or MIU bonus. A 10% encumbrance penalty equals the bonus gained from 80 ranks (20 points) of either AS or MIU.
.
.
| Arcane Symbols and Magic Item Use |
| RANKS | SKILL | ENCHANT BONUS | ENCUMBRANCE % | |||
| 8 | 40 | 2 | 1 | |||
| 16 | 74 | 4 | 2 | |||
| 24 | 102 | 6 | 3 | |||
| 32 | 124 | 8 | 4 | |||
| 40 | 140 | 10 | 5 | |||
| 48 | 148 | 12 | 6 | |||
| 56 | 156 | 14 | 7 | |||
| 64 | 164 | 16 | 8 | |||
| 72 | 172 | 18 | 9 | |||
| 80 | 180 | 20 | 10 | |||
| 88 | 188 | 22 | 11 | |||
| 96 | 196 | 24 | 12 | |||
| .. | .. | .. | .. | |||
| 128 | 228 | 32 | 16 | |||
| .. | .. | .. | .. | |||
| 160 | 260 | 40 | 20 | |||
| .. | .. | .. | .. | |||
| 200 | 300 | 50 | 25 |
.
.
.
| Encumbrance penalty formula |
| Penalty (in points) = [2 * .ceil((100 * (encumbrance/character's body weight))] |
.
Example
Character body weight: 136 lbs
Encumbrance: 70 lbs
2 * .ceil(100 * (70/136))
2 * .ceil( 100 * .5147058)
2 * .ceil(51.47058)
2 * 52 = 104 point penalty
Mark
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/21/2017 07:47 PM CDT
Confirmed wizard ranks over 1.5x provide 1 point per rank (actually 2 points per every 2 ranks... weird how that is happening). For my project jumping from 5x to 6x (going from +22 to +27) the difficulty shot up by more than the anticipated 50 points though.
Maybe there's something like a penalty of 10 points per 'plus' up to 4x and then something larger after? Totally guessing here - hopefully looking at the amount of the jump will provide some additional insight.
I captured all the stats / data but I'll have to look at it later in the week (EG and all).
-- Robert aka Faulkil
You see a fairly typical Lord Kai.
It appears to be in good shape.
Maybe there's something like a penalty of 10 points per 'plus' up to 4x and then something larger after? Totally guessing here - hopefully looking at the amount of the jump will provide some additional insight.
I captured all the stats / data but I'll have to look at it later in the week (EG and all).
-- Robert aka Faulkil
You see a fairly typical Lord Kai.
It appears to be in good shape.
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/22/2017 12:47 PM CDT
<<Confirmed wizard ranks over 1.5x provide 1 point per rank (actually 2 points per every 2 ranks... weird how that is happening). For my project jumping from 5x to 6x (going from +22 to +27) the difficulty shot up by more than the anticipated 50 points though. -- Peregrinefalcon
The mesasuring instrument (encumbrance %) has a least count of 2 points. Whiich means that our precision is limited to increments of 2. Because of this limitation we can't accurately measure a 1 point penalty increase but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
The results in the table were from a level 40 character (relevant info listed below). Similar results were obtained testing different items with the same starting enchant bonus. (eg., +10 cloth robes, +10 doubles, +10 mithril longsword etc.). Note the same difficulty with starting enchant bonuses of +5/+6 but an increase at +8. Also the same difficulty with (+10/+12, +15/+17, +20/+22 items). With 278 calculated points and a 0 starting bonus the enchant success rate measured 134/135%. If the success percentage corresponds to ER 135/136 then there may be, as Robert previously speculated, a level/bonus factor.
The level 40 character with 278 points had a success rate of 72% with a +17 item. Robert's wizard with (756 points + 100 workshop bonus + 20 familiar bonus - 500 item difficulty) had a success rate of approximately 96%. The level 40 character would have a 100% success rate with 306 (278 + 28) points, the capped character would have a success rate of 100% with (756 + 100 workshop bonus + 20 familiar bonus - 500 material difficulty penalty + 4) = 380 points.
TL:DR
Level 40 character: 306 points for 100% success with a +17 item.
Level 100 character: 380 points for 100% success enchanting a +17 item.
Assuming a +101 endroll will result in 100% success then the level 40 character has (306 - 101) = 205 unaccounted for points and the level 100 character has (380 - 101) = 279 unaccounted for points.
.
.
Comments
1. Baseline value was at the horribly unlucky/easily enough threshold with maximum unencumbered carrying capacity.
2. The difficulty values listed in the table have been adjusted for ALL bonuses and penalties.
3. The -20 item was an off-the-shelf wooden dagger with initial enchant difficulty (+2) equivalent to a +10 (2x) enchant bonus item.
4. The +30 result (-166) was the same before and after the mirtokh pour.
.
Shouldn't the 6x enchant item (-166) show an increased difficulty immediately after the mirtokh pour? I hope it's not observed just prior to the final cast.
________________________
Relevant character information
Level 40: 40
Wizard(40 * 2): 80
Wizard (4 * 1.5): 6
MjE (25/2): 12
MnE(33/2): 16
EMC(40/2): 20
AS(56/4): 14
MIU(64/4: 16
AUR: 20
LOG: 30
INT: 24
Total: 278 points
Mark
The mesasuring instrument (encumbrance %) has a least count of 2 points. Whiich means that our precision is limited to increments of 2. Because of this limitation we can't accurately measure a 1 point penalty increase but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
The results in the table were from a level 40 character (relevant info listed below). Similar results were obtained testing different items with the same starting enchant bonus. (eg., +10 cloth robes, +10 doubles, +10 mithril longsword etc.). Note the same difficulty with starting enchant bonuses of +5/+6 but an increase at +8. Also the same difficulty with (+10/+12, +15/+17, +20/+22 items). With 278 calculated points and a 0 starting bonus the enchant success rate measured 134/135%. If the success percentage corresponds to ER 135/136 then there may be, as Robert previously speculated, a level/bonus factor.
The level 40 character with 278 points had a success rate of 72% with a +17 item. Robert's wizard with (756 points + 100 workshop bonus + 20 familiar bonus - 500 item difficulty) had a success rate of approximately 96%. The level 40 character would have a 100% success rate with 306 (278 + 28) points, the capped character would have a success rate of 100% with (756 + 100 workshop bonus + 20 familiar bonus - 500 material difficulty penalty + 4) = 380 points.
TL:DR
Level 40 character: 306 points for 100% success with a +17 item.
Level 100 character: 380 points for 100% success enchanting a +17 item.
Assuming a +101 endroll will result in 100% success then the level 40 character has (306 - 101) = 205 unaccounted for points and the level 100 character has (380 - 101) = 279 unaccounted for points.
.
| Starting | Enchant | |
| Bonus | Difficulty | |
| 0 | +34 | |
| +5 | +22 | |
| +6 | +22 | |
| +8 | +16 | |
| +10 | +2 | |
| +12 | +2 | |
| -20 | +2 | |
| +15 | -28 | |
| +17 | -28 | |
| +20 | -66 | |
| +22 | -66 | |
| +25 | -110 | |
| +30 | -166 |
.
Comments
1. Baseline value was at the horribly unlucky/easily enough threshold with maximum unencumbered carrying capacity.
2. The difficulty values listed in the table have been adjusted for ALL bonuses and penalties.
3. The -20 item was an off-the-shelf wooden dagger with initial enchant difficulty (+2) equivalent to a +10 (2x) enchant bonus item.
4. The +30 result (-166) was the same before and after the mirtokh pour.
.
| GameMaster Contemplar has updated 925 so that you now cast the spell to get a reading of your chance of success without first having to temper the item. Do note that the mirtokh potion has a modifier that makes the enchant more difficult, so if an item would require that potion and you attempt to read it without tempering first, it won't be entirely accurate. |
| GameMaster Estild |
Shouldn't the 6x enchant item (-166) show an increased difficulty immediately after the mirtokh pour? I hope it's not observed just prior to the final cast.
________________________
Relevant character information
Level 40: 40
Wizard(40 * 2): 80
Wizard (4 * 1.5): 6
MjE (25/2): 12
MnE(33/2): 16
EMC(40/2): 20
AS(56/4): 14
MIU(64/4: 16
AUR: 20
LOG: 30
INT: 24
Total: 278 points
Mark
TRIPLEGAME226
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/23/2017 04:27 PM CDT
>Nobody reads the officials for current or correct information!
Yes. This is why we keep Krakii around here!
>Naos
Whoa, Naos is back?
https://i.imgur.com/8QmIp.gif
~ Methais
Yes. This is why we keep Krakii around here!
>Naos
Whoa, Naos is back?
https://i.imgur.com/8QmIp.gif
~ Methais
DOUG
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/30/2017 02:59 PM CDT
>>Wizard spell Ranks > 25 to level (2 * 75 Ranks): 150
>>Wizard Spell Ranks > Level up to 1.5x level (1.5 * 50 Ranks): 75
>>Wizard Spell Ranks > 1.5x level (1.0 & 90 Ranks): 90
>>MjE (2 * Round(20 Ranks / 4)): 10
>>MnE (20 Ranks / 2): 10
Am I reading this right - 280 spell ranks?
Doug
>>Wizard Spell Ranks > Level up to 1.5x level (1.5 * 50 Ranks): 75
>>Wizard Spell Ranks > 1.5x level (1.0 & 90 Ranks): 90
>>MjE (2 * Round(20 Ranks / 4)): 10
>>MnE (20 Ranks / 2): 10
Am I reading this right - 280 spell ranks?
Doug
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/30/2017 03:05 PM CDT
Copy paste for the lose...
Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 20
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 20
Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 263
Let me delete / re-post with accurate numbers here.
-- Robert
Damp deeply exclaims, "It's a wizard's locked project!"
Spell Lists
Major Elemental....................| 20
Spell Lists
Minor Elemental....................| 20
Spell Lists
Wizard.............................| 263
Let me delete / re-post with accurate numbers here.
-- Robert
Damp deeply exclaims, "It's a wizard's locked project!"
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/30/2017 03:09 PM CDT
Original post deleted. New post with corrected Wizard Ranks posted in its place.
I really shouldn't do a lot of these types of posts when I'm sick but... that's when I have the free time! :p
Another set of data points plus validation that 'off the shelf (hah)' adamantine can be player enchanted to 6x!
Here's what I need in order to bring my current adamantine project to 6x (+27):
Level: 100
Wiz: 263
Mje: 20
Mne: 20
EMC: 222 (322)
MIU: 208 (310)
AS: 218 (318)
Aura bonus: 42
Logic bonus: 43
Int bonus: 39
In a guild workshop with a familiar present.
Not Encumbered or injured.
5x (+22) going to 6x (+27) adamantine weapon.
Using a Dirtokh potion (no pre-temper potion required)
Wizard Level: 100
Wizard spell Ranks > 25 to level (2 * 75 Ranks): 150
Wizard Spell Ranks > Level up to 1.5x level (1.5 * 50 Ranks): 75
Wizard Spell Ranks > 1.5x level (1.0 * 113 Ranks): 113
MjE (2 * Round(20 Ranks / 4)): 10
MnE (20 Ranks / 2): 10
EMC (222 Ranks / 2): 111
AS (218 Ranks / 4): 54
MIU (208 Ranks / 4): 52
AUR bonus 42: 42
LOG bonus 43: 43
INT bonus 39: 39
Workshop bonus: 100
Familiar Present bonus: 20
Not Encumbered or Injured: 0
Target Enchant Mod (-10 * 27 target enchant value): -270 <-- (-220, -270, or -300 here)?
Material modifier: -500
Total Points: 149 (anywhere from 145 to 149 is needed to have best chance for this project)
If I reduce my EMC bonus by 10 Ranks (and 10 bonus) then I go from the best message to "You should be able to enchant <item> easily enough, barring bad luck." so I am within 4 'enchanting points' of the minimum required in order to have the best chance for this project.
-- Robert
Damp deeply exclaims, "It's a wizard's locked project!"
I really shouldn't do a lot of these types of posts when I'm sick but... that's when I have the free time! :p
Another set of data points plus validation that 'off the shelf (hah)' adamantine can be player enchanted to 6x!
Here's what I need in order to bring my current adamantine project to 6x (+27):
Level: 100
Wiz: 263
Mje: 20
Mne: 20
EMC: 222 (322)
MIU: 208 (310)
AS: 218 (318)
Aura bonus: 42
Logic bonus: 43
Int bonus: 39
In a guild workshop with a familiar present.
Not Encumbered or injured.
5x (+22) going to 6x (+27) adamantine weapon.
Using a Dirtokh potion (no pre-temper potion required)
Wizard Level: 100
Wizard spell Ranks > 25 to level (2 * 75 Ranks): 150
Wizard Spell Ranks > Level up to 1.5x level (1.5 * 50 Ranks): 75
Wizard Spell Ranks > 1.5x level (1.0 * 113 Ranks): 113
MjE (2 * Round(20 Ranks / 4)): 10
MnE (20 Ranks / 2): 10
EMC (222 Ranks / 2): 111
AS (218 Ranks / 4): 54
MIU (208 Ranks / 4): 52
AUR bonus 42: 42
LOG bonus 43: 43
INT bonus 39: 39
Workshop bonus: 100
Familiar Present bonus: 20
Not Encumbered or Injured: 0
Target Enchant Mod (-10 * 27 target enchant value): -270 <-- (-220, -270, or -300 here)?
Material modifier: -500
Total Points: 149 (anywhere from 145 to 149 is needed to have best chance for this project)
If I reduce my EMC bonus by 10 Ranks (and 10 bonus) then I go from the best message to "You should be able to enchant <item> easily enough, barring bad luck." so I am within 4 'enchanting points' of the minimum required in order to have the best chance for this project.
-- Robert
Damp deeply exclaims, "It's a wizard's locked project!"
DOUG
Re: Enchanting Forumla
10/30/2017 04:41 PM CDT
Rats! And here I was going to make some off-hand observation about your wiz-fu-chan.
;)
Doug
;)
Doug
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
12/31/2017 11:55 AM CST
I was working with someone on wizard training for enchanting and while we didn't get the result the individual was hoping to achieve, we did get a nice validation that the current formula is producing some 'expected' results.
Level 100 wizard going from 2x MIU to 1x MIU, 2x AS to 1x AS, 2x EMC to 1x EMC, 50 wizard spell Ranks to 101 Wizard spell Ranks.
Using the current formula in place we would expect the change to result in nearly the same capabilities (net result of 1.5 points overall). Individual confirmed that they are seeing the same 925 cast result on their project pre/post fixskill.
Also... this brought out that the 925 research on the wikki is out of date / misleading. I'll look to make some updates / edits to reflect current ideas over the next 1-2 weeks (probably NEXT weekend after the new year).
-- Robert aka Faulkil
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
Level 100 wizard going from 2x MIU to 1x MIU, 2x AS to 1x AS, 2x EMC to 1x EMC, 50 wizard spell Ranks to 101 Wizard spell Ranks.
Using the current formula in place we would expect the change to result in nearly the same capabilities (net result of 1.5 points overall). Individual confirmed that they are seeing the same 925 cast result on their project pre/post fixskill.
Also... this brought out that the 925 research on the wikki is out of date / misleading. I'll look to make some updates / edits to reflect current ideas over the next 1-2 weeks (probably NEXT weekend after the new year).
-- Robert aka Faulkil
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
12/31/2017 01:06 PM CST
Also interesting (to me at least) is that if we adjust the bonus for a wizard workshop down to +60 (from +100) due to it negating a 40 point non-node penalty, then my most recent formula example is nearly spot on for what we would expect to see...
Post 2423: Total Points: 109 (anywhere from 105 to 109 is needed to have best chance for this project).
It doesn't mean the current formula is correct but at least it seems to be in the ballpark. I still think there is some sort of SEED based / exponential function occurring around project difficulty (current or target enchant) that makes 'easier' projects a bit easier than the current formula would indicate and potentially makes 'harder' projects significantly harder after a point.
-- Robert aka Faulkil
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
Post 2423: Total Points: 109 (anywhere from 105 to 109 is needed to have best chance for this project).
It doesn't mean the current formula is correct but at least it seems to be in the ballpark. I still think there is some sort of SEED based / exponential function occurring around project difficulty (current or target enchant) that makes 'easier' projects a bit easier than the current formula would indicate and potentially makes 'harder' projects significantly harder after a point.
-- Robert aka Faulkil
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
KRAKII
Re: Enchanting Forumla
12/31/2017 01:32 PM CST
Does the owner of the workshop have to be the same person as the owner of the private property? Or can the property be designed by CharacterX with EnchanterY as the owner of the workshop?
WHIGHTCNIGHT
Re: Enchanting Forumla
12/31/2017 03:34 PM CST
This has been answered before. Basically you have the private property owner, and that owner can set ANYONE to be attuned to the workshop. It doesn't have to be the property owner or even a character on same account. And as far as possibly changing the attuned person to the workshop, I'll leave the below quote from Tamuz that was mentioned Discord ( https://discord.gg/KF9Wr8u ) for you:
| [3:29 PM] Tamuz: The owner can change the person the workshop is set to within some reasonable period of time. Don't try to do it every week. |
KRAKII
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Enchanting Forumla
01/04/2018 09:18 AM CST
The enchant penalty increase appears to follow the pattern: Difference of the two previous penalties plus a constant of 8.
*this was the result before and after a mirtokh pour but before the item tempered. According to GM Estild there is an increase in difficulty with mirtokh (it might only be detectable after the item tempers).
Additional notes:
1. Starting enchant bonuses also appear to be grouped where starting bonuses (5,6,7) are in the same penalty tier. A (7 to 12) project had the same penalty as a (5 to 10) project. This was also true with starting bonuses (10,11,12), (15,16,17), (20,21,22), (25,26,27).
2. The penalty for an (8 to 13) project was -20 which was 8 greater than the (7 to 12) project but less than the (10 to 15).
Mark
| Enchant Project | Penalty | Penalty Increase | ||
| Tested | ||||
| 0 to +5 | (baseline) | 0 | ||
| +5 to +10 | -12 | 12 | ||
| +10 to +15 | -32 | 20 | ||
| +15 to +20 | -60 | 28 | ||
| +20 to +25 | -96 | 36 | ||
| +25 to +30 | -140 | 44 | ||
| +30 to +35 | -192 | 52 * | ||
| Untested | ||||
| +35 to +40 | -252 | 60 | ||
| +40 to +45 | -320 | 68 | ||
| +45 to +50 | -396 | 76 |
*this was the result before and after a mirtokh pour but before the item tempered. According to GM Estild there is an increase in difficulty with mirtokh (it might only be detectable after the item tempers).
Additional notes:
1. Starting enchant bonuses also appear to be grouped where starting bonuses (5,6,7) are in the same penalty tier. A (7 to 12) project had the same penalty as a (5 to 10) project. This was also true with starting bonuses (10,11,12), (15,16,17), (20,21,22), (25,26,27).
2. The penalty for an (8 to 13) project was -20 which was 8 greater than the (7 to 12) project but less than the (10 to 15).
Mark
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
01/04/2018 11:24 PM CST
Based on your results the penalty could be calculated as follows:
(2*Floor(Starting Enchant/5))^2 + 8*(Round(Starting Enchant / 5)
Floor = Round down
Round = Round to nearest
Example 1: +30 to +35 enchant
Penalty = (2*Floor(30/5))^2 + 8*(Round(30/5)
Penalty = (2*6)^2 + 8*6
Penalty = 12^2 + 48
Penalty = 144 + 48 = 192
Example 2: +8 to +13 enchant
Penalty = (2*Floor(8/5))^2 + 8*(Round(8/5)
Penalty = (2*1)^2 + 8*2
Penalty = 2^2 + 16
Penalty = 4 + 16 = 20
-- Robert
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
(2*Floor(Starting Enchant/5))^2 + 8*(Round(Starting Enchant / 5)
Floor = Round down
Round = Round to nearest
Example 1: +30 to +35 enchant
Penalty = (2*Floor(30/5))^2 + 8*(Round(30/5)
Penalty = (2*6)^2 + 8*6
Penalty = 12^2 + 48
Penalty = 144 + 48 = 192
Example 2: +8 to +13 enchant
Penalty = (2*Floor(8/5))^2 + 8*(Round(8/5)
Penalty = (2*1)^2 + 8*2
Penalty = 2^2 + 16
Penalty = 4 + 16 = 20
-- Robert
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
KRAKII
Re: Enchanting Forumla
01/05/2018 09:06 AM CST
Could the 8/13/18/so forth Enchants be harking back to the days when the "x" was determined by true rounding (12 == 2x, 13 == 3x), so the difficulty is kicking up to what it (still) considers to be the next level of Enchant?
PEREGRINEFALCON
Re: Enchanting Forumla
01/05/2018 09:48 AM CST
Sure, why not? :-)
I viewed it as a desire on the part of the developer to have the difficulty increase incrementally for partial enchants.
-- Robert
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
I viewed it as a desire on the part of the developer to have the difficulty increase incrementally for partial enchants.
-- Robert
Due to the volatile atmosphere, random bolts of lightning can intermittently be seen streaking through the skyline.
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Enchanting Forumla
01/06/2018 11:13 AM CST
| Based on your results the penalty could be calculated as follows: |
| (2*Floor(Starting Enchant/5))^2 + 8*(Round(Starting Enchant / 5) -- Robert |
If the 0x to 1x has a penalty of 4 (which fits the progression) then we have the following, which I think makes the most sense.
| Enchant Project | Penalty | |
| 0x to 1x | 2^2 = 4 | |
| 1x to 2x | 4^2 = 16 | |
| 2x to 3x | 6^2 = 36 | |
| 3x to 4x | 8^2 = 64 | |
| 4x to 5x | 10^2 = 100 | |
| 5x to 6x | 12^2 = 144 | |
| 6x to 7x | 14^2 = 196 | |
| 7x to 8x | 16^2 = 256 | |
| 8x to 9x | 18^2 = 324 | |
| 9x to 10x | 20^2 = 400 |
The corresponding penalties for the (+3 to +8), (+8 to +13)...(+43 to +48) projects would be the odd integers squared. Eg., the penalty for a (+3 to +8) project would be 3^2 = 9 and for a (+43 to +48) = 19^2 = 361
Mark
SPYRIDONM1
Re: Enchanting Forumla
01/06/2018 01:17 PM CST
Enchant Penalty Master Table
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Mark
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| Starting | Destination | Penalty | Starting | Destination | Penalty | |||||||
| Bonus(+) | Bonus(+) | Bonus(+) | Bonus(+) | |||||||||
| 0,+1,+2 | +5,+6,+7 | -4 | +25,+26,+27 | +30,+31,+32 | -144 | |||||||
| +3,+4 | +8,+9 | -9 | +28,+29 | +33,+34 | -169 | |||||||
| +5,+6,+7 | +10,+11,+12 | -16 | +30,+31,+32 | +35,+36,+37 | -196 | |||||||
| +8,+9 | +13,+14 | -25 | +33,+34 | +38,+39 | -225 | |||||||
| +10,+11,+12 | +15,+16+17 | -36 | +35,+36,+37 | +40,+41,+42 | -256 | |||||||
| +13,+14 | +18,+19 | -49 | +38,+39 | +43,+44 | -289 | |||||||
| +15,+16,+17 | +20,+21,+22 | -64 | +40,+41,+42 | +45,+46,+47 | -324 | |||||||
| +18,+19 | +23,+24 | -81 | +43,+44 | +48,+49 | -361 | |||||||
| +20,+21,+22 | +25,+26,+27 | -100 | +45 | +50 | -400 | |||||||
| +23,+24 | +28,+29 | -121 |
Mark
