Hello everybody!



First off, I want to thank you all again for your contributions to the role play and overall enrichment of our Elanthia. 2020 has been a wild ride, but you as a community help bring us all together for adventures that continue to both impress and entertainment both myself and the players that we call friends and family. I'm proud to have been a part of your world and will continue to do so, albeit in a smaller role. Ainfore forever! However, as with all things, the Meeting Hall Organization system is due for its own overhaul, so we'd like to outline how we'll be approaching this in the upcoming months.



The original intent of Meeting Hall Organizations was to provide a way to formally recognize non-CHE Player Run Organizations with some in-game mechanical abilities while minimizing the impact on GM time. Over the years, the benefits to MHOs have expanded and the GM time has expanded exponentially because of it.



Give that, we have taken a long hard, and quite frankly, much overdue look at the MHO system, its requirements, and its benefits. Here are the changes that will be implemented effective January 1, 2021:



All MHOs will be divided into 2 Tiers: Prominent – the entry level tier, and Renowned – obtainable after 2 years at Prominent status.



Prominent Tier Benefits

General Access to the MHO Halls in-game

HALL verb functionality (criers and news items and other officer tools)

Prize closet access with 1 insignia-only item (insignia will have a variety of allowable nouns)



Ability to become Renowned after two (2) years of activity: Activity Requirement is 1 activity per year hosted solely by the MHO, open to all, and advertised via NEWS 4



Renowned Tier Benefits

All benefits under Prominent Tier

One calendar item per year, submitted 30 days in advance

Prize closets expanded to five (5) items (additional parameters will apply)

TIERS can be requested once per year at the regular cost



To maintain Renowned status, the MHO must solely host 2 events per year, open to all, and advertised via NEWS 4 or the calendar.



Converting Existing MHOs to the New System

Tier 1: Will convert to Prominent, unless they meet the requirements for Renowned advancement already (2 years at Tier 1 with at least 1 event each year)



Tier 2: Will convert to Renowned, unless they end the year with 0 events, in which case they will convert to Prominent. Prize closets for 2021 will be brought inline with 2021 standards.



Tier 3: Will convert to Renowned. Prize closets for 2021 will be brought inline with 2021 standards.



MHO Structures

Structures will no longer be a part of the MHO system. Tier 3 MHOs with a structure already will be grandfathered in and retain their structures.



Tier 3 MHOs who are eligible for a structure by the end of 2020 will be grandfathered in and receive their structures as well.



Failure to Meet Requirements

Effective for calendar year 2021 (2020 will be processed under current rules)



Prominent Tier: Removal from the MHO system at the end of the calendar year.



Renowned Tier: Dropped to Prominent Tier and will lose all Renowned benefits, including grandfathered structures.



Extenuating Circumstances: Communication is key. If you have extenuating circumstances, please reach out to the MHO GM immediately.



New MHO GM

As I mentioned in my intro, I'll be stepping away from my omnipotent position as Meeting Hall Organization GM, but leaving you in the very capable gentle hands of GM Xynwen. I'll still be around to assist with the transition, answer any questions that may pop up, and /bolt you with the same enthusiasm as always, don't you worry. Perhaps all three if you'd like.



MHO Email:

Don’t forget that general MHO discussion should occur here on the official forums. If you need to email the MHO GM, please use GS4-MHO@PLAY.NET, NOT the MHO GM’s play.net email.

** I just e-mailed the Google Group the above information as well!

THANK YOU again for the many wonderful years of MHO shenanigans and I'll see you around soon!

GM Elysani

>>What does this mean for our current prize closet? Are you going to cut us back to 5 items? The message was a bit vague in that area.

The intent is to eventually get all MHOs in-line with the new system (with the exception of grandfathered structures -- those will stay as long as you remain active and meeting the new, very minimal requirements starting in 2021).

However, it is my understanding many of you are just now getting your 2020 requests fulfilled, meaning you haven't had time to use them. Because of that, we will allow carryover into 2021 for the prize closets and will work individually with MHOs on this piece.

--Xynwen--
World Team, MHO GM
"My real name is Mephistopheles, but you can call me baby"

> The intent is to eventually get all MHOs in-line with the new system

So what IS the new system's allotment of prize items?

---
;tune towncrier
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
Xanith: "It's flat out amazing"
Doug: "100.times ^"
Lawronius: The stuff ... the TownCrier team does is incredible.

First order of business, it's a big shame you're going, Elysani, and I'm totally going to miss working with you on this stuff! But also hi Xynwen!

Now onto some concerns though- first and foremost, the prize closet. My MHO's prize closet is stocked with RP props as opposed to random prizes/gifts- among these, not only the two official insignias but also clothing items (grey outerwear for apprentice members and heraldic outerwear for full members), but things like writable/foldable parchment, quills, pennons, officer insignias, etc. Given that these are RP props as opposed to prize items, is there a chance there can be some discussion with the officers of each MHO that makes the cut in order to judiciously grandfather in some of these RP-integral items?

Next, how are the specific requirements for events to qualify for credit being adjusted? Are they remaining the same (5 attendees, host counted if participating, 30 minutes, etc), or being adjusted up or down to reflect the 2021 overhaul?

As well, what about the longterm benefits for MHOs with structures? Is the entire system being dropped and no new additions after 2021, or will we still see the same LTB cycle continue for groups with structures?

Laaastly when it comes to calendared events, my group does two recurring events monthly- will we still be able to schedule recurring calendar events like that, or will we be subject to the slated single calendar event per year and have to find our own advertisement outside of NEWS submissions?

-james, bristenn's player

---

You think to yourself, "FFF-"

A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!

You evade the bolt by a hair!

I’m also curious about the prize closet. We’ve been an MHO for a very long time and have a very extensive prize closet, are we losing all our items but 5?

<Renowned Tier: Prize closets expanded to five (5) items (3 must be insignia items, 2 can be insignia or chosen from a new list of prizes)

This is confusing. Why would we need 3 insignia items? Stormwild currently has a member insignia and an officer insignia. I don't see a need for a third one.

So are our prize closets going to be decimated? Stormwild's closet is rather well-filled. We have put a lot of time and thought into it for over ten years. Our closet is in our structure, which is going to be grandfathered. I can understand limiting items for those with no structure, who must go to the MHO Hall in order to get their prizes, but we'd really like to keep our current closet since our items are not in the general closet at the Hall.

May we see this 'new' prize list?

Also, what does "TIERS can be requested once per year at the regular cost" mean? Is that a reference to our LTBs?

Jadzara's player

Ah, someone explained to me that TIERS is Bingo for MHOs. We've never used it so I had no clue.

Jadzara's player

Event & Calendar Questions

>> Next, how are the specific requirements for events to qualify for credit being adjusted? Are they remaining the same (5 attendees, host counted if participating, 30 minutes, etc), or being adjusted up or down to reflect the 2021 overhaul? -- MAZEIKISJ

These are the same -- 5 attendees, host counted if participating, 30 minutes minimum. We fully expect our MHOs will continue to do a lot of other events, so we want to keep the qualifying events as pain-free as possible!

>> my group does two recurring events monthly- will we still be able to schedule recurring calendar events like that, or will we be subject to the slated single calendar event per year and have to find our own advertisement outside of NEWS submissions? -- MAZEIKISJ

You'll have the single calendar event. However, I would consider a regularly recurring event that I can schedule once as one item (so something that is always on the third Thursday of the month, for example), so one of your recurring events could be your calendared item. Also, let me say that once we get 2020 cleaned up, the system transitioned and under control, calendar items are an area I would be willing to revisit. This may be an area where increasing the maximum will have minimal time impact if done properly.

Structure Questions

>> As well, what about the long-term benefits for MHOs with structures? Is the entire system being dropped and no new additions after 2021, or will we still see the same LTB cycle continue for groups with structures? -- MAZEIKISJ

The entire structure system is being removed, including long-term benefits. However, your question made me realize there may be some MHOs who were up for an LTB at the end of 2020. Let me get with GM Elysani and SGM Galene to discuss 2020 LTBs.

Prize Closet Questions

>> May we see this 'new' prize list? -- SHADYLADY

We are working on it. We will update the MHO Guide with all of this information and link it here when that is completed.

>> Do you mean that from this point on a Tier 1 group gets 1 item in their prize closet, their insignia, and that Tier 2 groups get 5 items of which 3 have to be insignias? -- LUXELLE

Yes, but on the insignia-only items, there are a variety of nouns being discussed, such as amulet, insignia, ribbon, tabard, surcoat, sash, medallion, pin, crest, coat-or-arms, arms, emblem, pennon, banner, pennant, symbol, oriflamme, flag, or bannerette. This way, you can design multiple items to represent your MHO in different ways. In addition, it was my understanding (and perhaps I am wrong), but the 'insignia' could also be those key event commemmorative pieces that maybe just need the year changed on them. I'm still getting back up to speed, so I'll get some clarification on that.

>> Now onto some concerns though- first and foremost, the prize closet. My MHO's prize closet is stocked with RP props as opposed to random prizes/gifts- among these, not only the two official insignias but also clothing items (grey outerwear for apprentice members and heraldic outerwear for full members), but things like writable/foldable parchment, quills, pennons, officer insignias, etc. Given that these are RP props as opposed to prize items, is there a chance there can be some discussion with the officers of each MHO that makes the cut in order to judiciously grandfather in some of these RP-integral items? -- MAZEIKISJ

>> We’ve been an MHO for a very long time and have a very extensive prize closet, are we losing all our items but 5? -- KATARA

It is my understanding prize closets have grown well beyond the original scope and intention. However, I also recognize that everyone was following what was laid out and what was being allowed, and I appreciate the concerns. Let me take this back to the group so we can discuss the most equitable way to handle items already in the prize closet.

Thanks!!

Yes, I bolded my thanks! I wanted the end statement to stand out too...thank you, and I mean that so sincerely. You all are awesome, and you are bringing up good questions. As the new old kid on the block, I apologize for not having specifically ready answers for some of these items. I will get back to you though after conferring with the team.

--Xynwen--
World Team, MHO GM
"My real name is Mephistopheles, but you can call me baby"

Oh no no need for apologies! Thank you for taking the time to address some of our concerns so far! I'm not entirely certain if my group is due in the LTB cycle, and to be honest it'd be a shame to miss out on some of those perks we had already been planning out, but I'm just relieved the structure itself is sticking around.

Which does bring up another concernicus that, these grandfathered structures- say a group drops a tier for whatever circumstance and the structure presumably closes, is there a grace period to have it opened back up or the opportunity to reopen it, or once it's closed it's gone?

-james, bristenn's player

---

You think to yourself, "FFF-"

A giant white bunny hurls a powerful lightning bolt at you!

You evade the bolt by a hair!

>> however I see no incentive for a Tier 1 MHO to now gain Tier 2 status and this concerns me from a Roleplay point. -- WLEONARD

This should free you up from having to jump through hoops to gain Tier 2 and instead let you focus on your RP and your MHO's purpose. By doing only one reported event a year for 2 years, you'll get moved up to Tier 2 and get a few expanded benefits.

>> it took a lot of hard work a dedication from many people who branched out to start their own MHO to get where they are today and yet somehow I feel as if our effort to create something for all of Elanthia isn't being looked at and considered. -- WLEONARD

We definitely appreciate all the hard work and dedication from all our MHO participants and all the players who go to events and roleplay their hearts out. The player community is ever-rich with amazing surprises, and we love it! Supporting players in their efforts is one of my favourite things about being a GM!

Changes do not mean that what went before is not appreciated. It definitely is.

>> My last concern is understanding the Requirements for the News 4 system which I've been using for 6 years now. I recently submitted a News item via the Hall News system, and its seems as if some of the requirements have changed. For example the issue with time. Previously the requirement was that time in the News be submitted in this Format: 9 P.M. and now the requirement is that we make it elven time. I would just like a clear update at some point to how these need to be worded for future reference. -- WLEONARD

I appreciate you wanting clarification. To be clear, I did not request you remove P.M. I requested you add the time zone, so it is clear when your event is. While we hope everyone assumes everything is in eastern time, assumptions can be dangerous, and the more clear your event is, the easier it will be for others to find it and show up on time. This is pretty standard for NEWS items, but I'm sure not everyone catches it all the time. I see one I missed in NEWS 4 right now even!

As an FYI, removing the P.M. made it more unclear, but because this was submitted only 2 days before your event, I didn't want to delay it further by sending it back. Therefore, I published it as-is. I figured given that it said 'evening' and was for stargazing, people would hopefully assume evening; I hated to do that, but I also know how frustrating a back and forth on news items and criers can be and wanted to minimize that and get your event in the news ASAP.

HALL NOTES 10 has the info still -- submit the dates Elanthian style. It doesn't address times. However, times should be eastern and it is best to indicate 'elven' just so everyone stays aware. So for example: Come to see us on Restday, the 20th of Imaerasta (Sunday, September 20th) at 8 PM elven. in front of Moot Hall, Wehnimer's Landing. We promise booze. [Note: Not a real announcement. I will not have booze outside Moot Hall this Sunday...sorry!]

Hope this helps!

>>It also leaves me wondering what we've missed out on over the few short years we've been around...? Have other developments been shared with that email list serv? -- PURPLEKY

I'm still learning my way around the google group. Let me check on getting you added. It's my understanding that no communication hits there that doesn't also hit the boards, so you should be fine.

>> Which does bring up another concernicus that, these grandfathered structures- say a group drops a tier for whatever circumstance and the structure presumably closes, is there a grace period to have it opened back up or the opportunity to reopen it, or once it's closed it's gone? -- MAZEIKISJ

Technically, it should be gone, but we aren't completely heartless, so yes, extenuating circumstances will be evaluated on a case-by-case basis; we don't want you to lose your structures either. This is covered in the announcement under the 'communication is key' piece, FYI.

--Xynwen--
World Team, MHO GM
"My real name is Mephistopheles, but you can call me baby"

I have to agree with Rovvigen, Katara, Bristenn and all the other CHE officers when I ask that current MHOs with a prize closet be allowed to keep their current prize closet items. Change is difficult, and most of us are so set in our ways that we don't like it, admittedly. But I can also recognize the need for the changes. Please, just consider not taking away something current MHOs have worked for, within the rules at the time they were obtained, when there's no pressing need or benefit to the game to remove current content that requires no GM time at all. Not allowing new content I can (begrudgingly) understand. I can't speak for everyone else, but I know we have had increasing difficulty with attendance as a MHO, and it seems to have gotten even worse over the past year. I appreciate the reduced event requirements, but I sure wish there was a way that we could get more folks interested in MHO-hosted events in general.


Mikalmas

>>Come to see us on Restday, the 20th of Imaerasta (Sunday, September 20th) at 8 PM elven. in front of Moot Hall, Wehnimer's Landing. We promise booze. [Note: Not a real announcement. I will not have booze outside Moot Hall this Sunday...sorry!] -- XYNWEN

DAMNIT!!! I wanted scotch!

Thanks Up Front:

Elysani, I am sorry to see you go, but everyone must move on, and I understand that. Thank you for your service over the years.

Xynwen, I look forward to working with you as the new MHO GM, and I am certain that you will do a wonderful job.


Now on to the part that tends to get people defensive...

I know that this has been stated multiple times in this thread, by multiple people, but I do not believe that we can beat this dead horse enough...MHO's that have been around for a long time [like so many that have spoken up here already] have invested a LOT of time, energy, creativity and even tears to generate not only their structures, but that of their prize closets. We have heard from Mika [ <3 Mika!! ] specifically mentioning that everything up to this point has been in line with the active MHO guidelines of the times. To arbitrarily take, in some cases, hundreds of items from an MHO's prize closet is in all honesty a slap to the faces of everyone who put hours/days/years of effort into creating something(s) that is/are truly unique in the lands. I get the changes to structures, those are a massive time sink for an MHO GM to deal with. Grandfathering in previous structures and allowing those MHO's who have earned a structure by the end of this year to complete their new structure is a great thing as well, and shows that you truly do want to provide what was earned under the old system.

The way it is written RE:3 insignia items I believe is also a waste. As Bristenn's Player so aptly stated in his early post, insignia items are not actually "Prizes", they are RP items. Being required to have 3 insignia items as available prize items means that we wouldn't have anything to offer other than 2 options for prizes to give out at MHO events from our "Prize Closet". Add on to that what Jadzara's player added about at MOST only really needing 2 insignia items [some MHO's may want more, but I don't think that the majority would], we would be wasting that 3rd option for a prize. A possible option in this instance is to have the 1st insignia (Prominent Status) being a separate entity, and then when an MHO reaches Renowned status they gain 5 (five) Prize Closet Items from the pending list (Not requiring ANY of them to be insignia). This would make reaching Renowned status more worthwhile, as Rovvigen stated that under the current writeup, there really is no tangible benefit to go beyond Prominent.

In my honest opinion, the MHO system needed a review, and I am glad to see it happening, but I also think that the new system, as currently stated in this thread, will cause a LOT of undue anger over (specifically) the prize closet system.

Just my two silvers.



Khylynnia SparrHawk
Aelotian Bardess
L'Naereen'dar
Sonic Researcher
Scrivener of Twilight Hall

Luxie, you summed up one of my points in like 30 words LOL


Khylynnia SparrHawk
Aelotian Bardess
L'Naereen'dar
Sonic Researcher
Scrivener of Twilight Hall

> Luxie, you summed up one of my points in like 30 words LOL

I have been writing news items for the TownCrier for ... years. Every single character gets counted, because of the limits involved :)

---
;tune towncrier
Rohese: "... the TownCrier (tune in if you haven’t, it’s without doubt the best thing to ever happen on LNet)"
Xanith: "It's flat out amazing"
Doug: "100.times ^"
Lawronius: The stuff ... the TownCrier team does is incredible.

Yea if an mho has been around for 14 years lots of items. Used to be 12 items two times a year then changed to 15 items a year.

Items added up quick

Nice reference chart to see the updated changes from how I think many people understood the changes.

Thanks Luxelle very useful

Adding my heartfelt thanks and best wishes to GM Elysani who has steadfastly supported us for years and welcome back to GM Xynwen.

The changes to MHO support are long overdue as I can only imagine the workload it creates for the GM concerned. I would, however, like to echo the plea for grandfathering in the existing prize closets. Judging by the comments posted here and subsequent responses from Xynwen, I clearly misinterpreted the original post having assumed prize closets were a given and the new rules applied going forward. This revelation has come as quite a shock!

I have been running Fashion Week and related events for 5 years now, as well as publishing Elanthian Vogue for almost 3. The items created for the prize closet are to support both these endeavours and I would be extremely disappointed to lose them at this point. Considerable thought and effort went into designing them all with a view to them supporting fashion-themed events and promoting role play - surely something that should be encouraged through the MHO system?

Again, thank you Elysani and I hope some consideration will be given to the concerns raised going forward.

---

>>https://gswiki.play.net/Rohese_Bayvel-Timsh'l

>> KATARA's post on my use of the phrase "potential abuse"

As I've stated, I am extremely pro-PROs and have already given my bona fides, etc. on that, so need to worry about whether or not I know how amazing MHO/CHE peeps are as I definitely do! By stating that prize closets are an area of potential abuse, I am stating a fact. It is an area that can potentially be abused. I am not stating that any particular person or group is currently doing so. Nor am I casting aspersions on any of the wonderful MHO officers and members out there.


>> LUXELLE's most excellent chart

Raffles: As these are not a fully automated system and require GM intervention to do, these will not be offered in the new system. If there comes a time where there is a way to set up and run one without GM intervention, I will gladly take this back to the team to review and see if we can add back in.

TIERS: I've actually not used this system. I will ask on it. If it is something that is fully automated, perhaps we can look at more than 1x/year.

--Xynwen--
World Team, MHO GM
>Emails for MHO business should go to GS4-MHO@PLAY.NET
"My real name is Mephistopheles, but you can call me baby"

>> Another item sorely missing for an organization is a SPINNER item. That would be wonderful to be able to use, too. Again, one cannot buy them at a festival or something.

Hi Luxelle - I agree this is something that a house should be able to acquire directly but if you need a spinner I believe I have a few spinner items left over from an EG a number of years back (they were handed out as live contest prizes).

Just send Faulkil a thought in game or shoot me an email at my play.net address.

-- Robert

>> A halfling magistrate picks up a small rock and throws it at a half-elven bandit in a valiant effort to subdue him.

Luxelle hon,

I have an auction block thingy - if you need it in the future just hit me up and you can borrow it! Just bring it back with no food stains or whiskey stains :)

Hugs

Kat