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Will there be more hybrid spells for WMs?
Also, any thought to making Geyser a hybrid spell - water / fire or water / air?
__
"Technically correct" is the worst kind of correct.
FIREBREATHINGBEAR
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/09/2016 07:11 PM CST
>>Will there be more hybrid spells for WMs?
Unlikely, no. I'd actually like to move away from them in general because I'm not very happy with how they're working right now.
>>Also, any thought to making Geyser a hybrid spell - water / fire or water / air?
It uses hot water mods (as does rising mists). These are kind of like a water/fire blend.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Unlikely, no. I'd actually like to move away from them in general because I'm not very happy with how they're working right now.
>>Also, any thought to making Geyser a hybrid spell - water / fire or water / air?
It uses hot water mods (as does rising mists). These are kind of like a water/fire blend.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/22/2016 10:17 PM CDT
Hi Raesh,
With the reduction in slot cost for many spells, how will the spell slot refunding be addressed? Will they just automatically be refunded when these changes go live? Or will we get a spellwipe of some sort? Just wondering how that is going to work.
Also, in regards to single target spells having mana costs reduced by 50%. Does this mean the spell cap is lowered? Or is this the actual mana being used by a cast at 100 prep is less on the back end? Also on the single targets - will they be getting more oomph as well? I know someone had previously said TM spells not doing a lot of damage is more of a combat 3.0 problem. Is this being done to address these issues? or is this something else entirely?
Also, I know it is still pending, but what kind of oomph were you planning for AE spells?
Sorry to bombard, you just piqued my interest.
ILLIENA
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/22/2016 10:33 PM CDT
> Please be aware that at this time the efficacy modifier only applies to the actual prepped mana, not to mana contributed through harnessed mana or cambrinth. This will be changing in the near future.
I'm curious how this will work for harnessed and cambrinth, considering that they don't know what element you're going to cast with at the time you harness/charge. I can see two methods, both with pros and cons.
Suppose I'm in a room where fire takes a 20% penalty. Suppose I harness 10 mana and then cast a fire spell. Presumably harnessing the mana drained my attunement at the neutral rate, which we'll call 1 as a baseline. When I cast the spell, does the system go "oh, you should have been charged at the rate of 1.2 for this harnessed mana, so we'll drain another .2 * 10 = 2 points of attunement now"? Or does it instead say "these 10 points of harnessed mana are at reduced effectiveness, so they only count as 10/1.2 = 8.33 points of mana contributed to the spell"?
I would greatly prefer the first option, because it means I still have complete control over how much mana I'm putting into a spell. But then there's the question of what happens if I'm getting an elemental bonus instead of a penalty. Does the system go "You should have been charged at the rate of 0.8 for this harnessed mana, so here's 2 points refunded to your attunement"? In that case, if I prep a spell low enough, harness enough mana, and cast in a strongly aligned room, the act of casting might cause a net improvement in my attunement level. Maybe that's not a problem, but it's certainly odd.
I'm curious how this will work for harnessed and cambrinth, considering that they don't know what element you're going to cast with at the time you harness/charge. I can see two methods, both with pros and cons.
Suppose I'm in a room where fire takes a 20% penalty. Suppose I harness 10 mana and then cast a fire spell. Presumably harnessing the mana drained my attunement at the neutral rate, which we'll call 1 as a baseline. When I cast the spell, does the system go "oh, you should have been charged at the rate of 1.2 for this harnessed mana, so we'll drain another .2 * 10 = 2 points of attunement now"? Or does it instead say "these 10 points of harnessed mana are at reduced effectiveness, so they only count as 10/1.2 = 8.33 points of mana contributed to the spell"?
I would greatly prefer the first option, because it means I still have complete control over how much mana I'm putting into a spell. But then there's the question of what happens if I'm getting an elemental bonus instead of a penalty. Does the system go "You should have been charged at the rate of 0.8 for this harnessed mana, so here's 2 points refunded to your attunement"? In that case, if I prep a spell low enough, harness enough mana, and cast in a strongly aligned room, the act of casting might cause a net improvement in my attunement level. Maybe that's not a problem, but it's certainly odd.
ILLIENA
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/22/2016 10:40 PM CDT
> 2) Debilitation and TM spells have had their mana costs drastically altered (These are generally reductions, AoE TM is the main exception).
I'm not seeing any change to DEMA or Pyre. Not included in this pass?
I'm not seeing any change to DEMA or Pyre. Not included in this pass?
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/22/2016 10:42 PM CDT
>>With the reduction in slot cost for many spells, how will the spell slot refunding be addressed?
Should be automatic. At this time I'm not planning a spellwipe with these changes.
>>Also, in regards to single target spells having mana costs reduced by 50%. Does this mean the spell cap is lowered?
Yes.
>>Also on the single targets - will they be getting more oomph as well?
No.
>>Also, I know it is still pending, but what kind of oomph were you planning for AE spells?
Right now their template is weaker than a single shot. I'm planning to bring them up to par.
>>Or does it instead say "these 10 points of harnessed mana are at reduced effectiveness, so they only count as 10/1.2 = 8.33 points of mana contributed to the spell"?
That's my current plan. The other options is terribly, terribly, messy.
FWIW with cambrinth my intention is that it will try and compensate if their is extra mana available or leave mana behind.
As an aside, this change will also apply to the sorcery efficacy penalties that are already in place.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
Should be automatic. At this time I'm not planning a spellwipe with these changes.
>>Also, in regards to single target spells having mana costs reduced by 50%. Does this mean the spell cap is lowered?
Yes.
>>Also on the single targets - will they be getting more oomph as well?
No.
>>Also, I know it is still pending, but what kind of oomph were you planning for AE spells?
Right now their template is weaker than a single shot. I'm planning to bring them up to par.
>>Or does it instead say "these 10 points of harnessed mana are at reduced effectiveness, so they only count as 10/1.2 = 8.33 points of mana contributed to the spell"?
That's my current plan. The other options is terribly, terribly, messy.
FWIW with cambrinth my intention is that it will try and compensate if their is extra mana available or leave mana behind.
As an aside, this change will also apply to the sorcery efficacy penalties that are already in place.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/22/2016 10:44 PM CDT
>>I'm not seeing any change to DEMA or Pyre. Not included in this pass?
They're included. Both are AoE so DEMA is basically breaking even and PYRE is actually at a penalty compared to a baseline cyclic, but you're likely not seeing it because I moved the baseline for cyclics down somewhat.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
They're included. Both are AoE so DEMA is basically breaking even and PYRE is actually at a penalty compared to a baseline cyclic, but you're likely not seeing it because I moved the baseline for cyclics down somewhat.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ILLIENA
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/22/2016 10:48 PM CDT
> They're included. Both are AoE so DEMA is basically breaking even and PYRE is actually at a penalty compared to a baseline cyclic, but you're likely not seeing it because I moved the baseline for cyclics down somewhat.
I was referring to their mana caps, which are exactly the same as they were. Still 100 and 40, respectively.
I was referring to their mana caps, which are exactly the same as they were. Still 100 and 40, respectively.
GABRIEL4
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/22/2016 10:55 PM CDT
<<Will they just automatically be refunded when these changes go live? Or will we get a spellwipe of some sort? Just wondering how that is going to work.
Likely the same way it happened to other guilds that this happened to. The next time you ask your guildleader about magic, you circle, or you use the spell command the system will autocorrect your spell slot count and you get a yellow highlighted line saying that it was adjusted.
Likely the same way it happened to other guilds that this happened to. The next time you ask your guildleader about magic, you circle, or you use the spell command the system will autocorrect your spell slot count and you get a yellow highlighted line saying that it was adjusted.
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/22/2016 11:05 PM CDT
>>I was referring to their mana caps, which are exactly the same as they were. Still 100 and 40, respectively.
That's correct.
DEMA is an AoE debilitation so it's breaking even.
Pyre is a cyclic AoE TM. It's at a penalty compared to baseline but you're not noticing that because I reduced the baseline for cyclic spells.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
That's correct.
DEMA is an AoE debilitation so it's breaking even.
Pyre is a cyclic AoE TM. It's at a penalty compared to baseline but you're not noticing that because I reduced the baseline for cyclic spells.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ILLIENA
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/22/2016 11:37 PM CDT
Okay.
I'll test again as soon as the day ends and I can find a room with negative fire mods. Apparently summer days are super fire.
I'll test again as soon as the day ends and I can find a room with negative fire mods. Apparently summer days are super fire.
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/22/2016 11:39 PM CDT
Now that I think about it - it's entirely possible that the I don't have cyclic spells properly hooked up to the mana efficacy. I'll have to check that later.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 10:27 AM CDT
<<These changes are for the Test server only
The aforementioned improved damage template for AoE spells is now live. Be aware - this isn't a massive increase.
I've also put the Frost Scythe spell on preview on Test. This is a single target intermediate TM spell that requires Icepatch or Frostbite and 2 slots. What makes it special is that it's the prototype for a new armor piercing damage template. This means it should be less effective on lightly armored targets compared to most TM spells but more effective against heavily armored targets (This makes it kind of the reverse of a multishot spell). I imagine the general idea of the mechanic at works here is familiar to most of you.
Please let me know how it feels - I'm fairly happy with where the numbers are at right now but there's a lot of noise in damage from attack to attack and I can see the numbers whereas you can't - so your feedback here will be really helpful.
-Raesh>>
Hi Raesh - is this the "cannon" spell? or something entirely different?
The aforementioned improved damage template for AoE spells is now live. Be aware - this isn't a massive increase.
I've also put the Frost Scythe spell on preview on Test. This is a single target intermediate TM spell that requires Icepatch or Frostbite and 2 slots. What makes it special is that it's the prototype for a new armor piercing damage template. This means it should be less effective on lightly armored targets compared to most TM spells but more effective against heavily armored targets (This makes it kind of the reverse of a multishot spell). I imagine the general idea of the mechanic at works here is familiar to most of you.
Please let me know how it feels - I'm fairly happy with where the numbers are at right now but there's a lot of noise in damage from attack to attack and I can see the numbers whereas you can't - so your feedback here will be really helpful.
-Raesh>>
Hi Raesh - is this the "cannon" spell? or something entirely different?
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 10:55 AM CDT
>>Hi Raesh - is this the "cannon" spell? or something entirely different?
No. Heavy TM spells are something else and I haven't set Warrior Mages up with one yet.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
No. Heavy TM spells are something else and I haven't set Warrior Mages up with one yet.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
BADGOPHER
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 12:14 PM CDT
Looks pretty cool all around. If I had a WM if love to test.
DBABIASH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 12:35 PM CDT
I suppose my question is, what advantage does Frost Scythe have over Lightning Bolt for high armor targets? And if it is decidedly better, where does Lightning Bolt now fit in? Seems to me like one of the two spells is just going to be simply better, and the other will be ignored.
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 12:46 PM CDT
What does lightning bolt have to do with armor? Shields are a defense, not actual armor.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
UNSPEAKABLEOATH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 12:58 PM CDT
I'd assume he means that in addition to being DFA, lightning bolts hits as electricity damage; something that plate armor is notoriously poor against.
So the assumption is heavily armored = plate. I'm not sure this is the case, especially with monsters.
So the assumption is heavily armored = plate. I'm not sure this is the case, especially with monsters.
DBABIASH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 01:03 PM CDT
>>I'd assume he means that in addition to being DFA, lightning bolts hits as electricity damage; something that plate armor is notoriously poor against.
Well, weak against elemental damage in general. If not electrical damage, then fire, which lighting bolt also does. Also DFA means that the spell is contesting only what is likely to be a highly armored targets worst defense.
Well, weak against elemental damage in general. If not electrical damage, then fire, which lighting bolt also does. Also DFA means that the spell is contesting only what is likely to be a highly armored targets worst defense.
UNSPEAKABLEOATH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 01:08 PM CDT
I think that it is a question that needs to be asked, specifically since CL is losing LB as a prereq. It would call into question the utility of the Lightning Bolt.
Perhaps the DFA aspect is what gives it a utility edge over the new Frost Scythe's anti-armor aspect.
Perhaps the DFA aspect is what gives it a utility edge over the new Frost Scythe's anti-armor aspect.
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 01:39 PM CDT
I think this calls for a PAFO.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
BADGOPHER
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 02:06 PM CDT
I have a fairly stupid question. Can anyone point to highly armored PVE targets? I'm drawing a blank. Most of the stuff I'm thinking of is either natural or wears deliberately bad armor.
I know some undead wear plate but eh. And I'm not sure of things higher than 500 or so ranks.
I know some undead wear plate but eh. And I'm not sure of things higher than 500 or so ranks.
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 02:09 PM CDT
Cabalists.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
BIRDO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 02:10 PM CDT
I really really like the new CL messaging. Noticed some buggy messages though. Third line below:
You thrust your arms before you, fingers splayed.
A storm of blinding white lighting arcs from your fingertips!
A bolt of lightning narrowly missesA large musk hog narrowly avoidsA spotted forager goblin jumps in surprise as a bolt strikes its back and leaves a patch of blackened flesh.
A spotted forager goblin collapses to the ground, shuddering and moaning until it ceases all movement.
A gap-toothed forager goblin's left arm jerks involuntarily as it is struck by a lightning bolt!
The forager goblin is lightly stunned!
A bolt strikes a large musk hog's left eye, blasting it right out of its socket.
The musk hog falls to the ground and lies still.
You thrust your arms before you, fingers splayed.
A storm of blinding white lighting arcs from your fingertips!
A bolt of lightning narrowly missesA large musk hog narrowly avoidsA spotted forager goblin jumps in surprise as a bolt strikes its back and leaves a patch of blackened flesh.
A spotted forager goblin collapses to the ground, shuddering and moaning until it ceases all movement.
A gap-toothed forager goblin's left arm jerks involuntarily as it is struck by a lightning bolt!
The forager goblin is lightly stunned!
A bolt strikes a large musk hog's left eye, blasting it right out of its socket.
The musk hog falls to the ground and lies still.
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 02:32 PM CDT
<<Cabalists.
-Raesh>>
I happened to be testing on cabs. FRS Looks great.
1600+ TM with subs up, max (50) mana casts
> cast
You gesture at an arthelun cabalist.
Sparkling crystals of ice appear and coalesce into a scythe of frost which flies through the air at her!
The scythe glances off her shield.
The scythe slices at an arthelun cabalist from above, sweeping down to cut deeply into her neck and scrape along her collarbone.
The arthelun cabalist is severely stunned!
The scythe swiftly melts away.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
> cast
You gesture at an arthelun cabalist.
Sparkling crystals of ice appear and coalesce into a scythe of frost which flies through the air at her!
The scythe glances off her shield.
The scythe blade buries itself in her abdomen, the tip poking out of the other side of her body. Blood flows over the blade in half-frozen streams, falling to the ground with a crystalline chiming.
The scythe swiftly melts away.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
> l third cab
You see an arthelun cabalist.
The arthelun cabalist has a severely swollen and deeply bruised neck compounded by deep cuts across the neck, a severely bloated and discolored abdomen with strange round lumps under the skin compounded by an abdomen deeply gouged with gaping wounds.
The arthelun cabalist is bleeding with slight bruising in the neck, slightly from the neck, with widespread discoloration and rigidity in the abdomen and profusely from the abdomen.
It is wearing a shroud of flames.
It is carrying a longsword crafted from pure flame, a blazing shield.
On drakes after a couple of casts:
You gesture at a lava drake.
Sparkling crystals of ice appear and coalesce into a scythe of frost which flies through the air at it!
The scythe glances off its shield.
Shrieking like Asketi's frozen North Wind, the scythe shreds its abdomen to bloody ribbons that fall to the ground in a spray of stones and gore.
The scythe swiftly melts away.
A lava drake jacknifes a few times, then grows still, its body rapidly cooling until it is little more than a smoldering pile of rocks.
Roundtime: 1 sec.
R>
>
* Awkwardly, a lava drake darts forward and slashes at you. You evade, leaping aside.
[You're winded, adeptly balanced and in very strong position.]
> l third drak
You see a lava drake, which is dead.
The lava drake has a slightly cracked stone right leg, a moderately broken stone left leg covered with cracks, several large cracks in the stone along the chest, a completely missing abdomen with almost no stone left and a badly smashed back that is constantly losing small stone pieces.
It is wearing nothing!
It is holding nothing!
Have some comments on CL I'll throw in another post though. I think people will love FRS though.
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 02:49 PM CDT
So.. CL (and AOE's in general) now are castable to 150 mana which is great. Just wondering if this is intended though. CL doesnt seem to do a whole lot on both Cabalists or drakes at max cast. Again, this is with 1600+ TM buffed with subs which is well out of the range for drakes, and in target range for cabs at base ranks... Multiple 150 mana casts leaving just scuffs.
Drakes log:
http://pastebin.com/r2YcMLVT
Cab log:
http://pastebin.com/s2Pj7Wz3
Cab log is really long, sorry!
Seems like it isnt super accurate maybe and its not a damage issue at all? I dunno. But definitely seems off for 150 mana and feels pretty similar to how it is now (as in, I really dont use it).
TEVESHSZAT
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 03:11 PM CDT
>>I have a fairly stupid question. Can anyone point to highly armored PVE targets? I'm drawing a blank. Most of the stuff I'm thinking of is either natural or wears deliberately bad armor.
IIRC, after a certain critter level they tend to get "natural" armor + shield/parry options that go beyond what lower level ones have. That's why you'll see tuskies deflecting TM attacks with their hide (AFAIK, it's actually them holding an invisible shield that is named in a way that makes it message like their hide). I think dillos have similar things.
It might not matter in lower levels, but eventually those invisible shields and parry blades and armors show up.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
IIRC, after a certain critter level they tend to get "natural" armor + shield/parry options that go beyond what lower level ones have. That's why you'll see tuskies deflecting TM attacks with their hide (AFAIK, it's actually them holding an invisible shield that is named in a way that makes it message like their hide). I think dillos have similar things.
It might not matter in lower levels, but eventually those invisible shields and parry blades and armors show up.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 03:13 PM CDT
>>CL doesnt seem to do a whole lot on both Cabalists or drakes at max cast
Does where the mana max cap is determine how strong it is, or just how much mana it takes to reach max?
IE: If CL capped at 50 mana, it would do the same damage (and require the same amount of skill) if it capped at 500 mana.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Does where the mana max cap is determine how strong it is, or just how much mana it takes to reach max?
IE: If CL capped at 50 mana, it would do the same damage (and require the same amount of skill) if it capped at 500 mana.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
GABRIEL4
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 03:21 PM CDT
<<Does where the mana max cap is determine how strong it is, or just how much mana it takes to reach max?
This is my understanding. We saw this recently with the doubling of the mana needed to put into Dragon's Breath, for example. The mana level a spell is cast at is just an attunement efficiency thing.
This is my understanding. We saw this recently with the doubling of the mana needed to put into Dragon's Breath, for example. The mana level a spell is cast at is just an attunement efficiency thing.
GABRIEL4
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 03:25 PM CDT
Unless they actually extended the cap, I should say, which is also possible. I think it's just the mana cost though going by the announcement post with regards to AoE TM.
DBABIASH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 03:27 PM CDT
>>Does where the mana max cap is determine how strong it is, or just how much mana it takes to reach max?
Interesting question. I had always assumed it was the former. That each spell was a template like a weapon template is, and that the mana put into the spell was the equivalent to weight. As mana goes up, damage goes up following the template. Some templates can take more mana (weight) and thus have a higher capacity for damage.
Interesting question. I had always assumed it was the former. That each spell was a template like a weapon template is, and that the mana put into the spell was the equivalent to weight. As mana goes up, damage goes up following the template. Some templates can take more mana (weight) and thus have a higher capacity for damage.
TOTLIIO
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 03:31 PM CDT
I dont claim to have all those answers one way or another...just giving my data and feedback ;)
FAMEBRIGHT
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 03:38 PM CDT
>As mana goes up, damage goes up following the template. Some templates can take more mana (weight) and thus have a higher capacity for damage.
I think this is where Dev is trying to move now, but that would seem to be a more radical change than what's been described so far. Spell teirs still aren't coming back, and there's essentially only one TM weapon template (maybe more, if multishot and AOE is not simple percentage adjustment) which selects its 2 damage types from the spell.
Before mana was standardized, mana range represented efficiency: A spell that capped at 100 mana (energy bolt) was grossly inefficient compared to a more advanced spell spell that capped at 32 mana (chain lightning).
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
I think this is where Dev is trying to move now, but that would seem to be a more radical change than what's been described so far. Spell teirs still aren't coming back, and there's essentially only one TM weapon template (maybe more, if multishot and AOE is not simple percentage adjustment) which selects its 2 damage types from the spell.
Before mana was standardized, mana range represented efficiency: A spell that capped at 100 mana (energy bolt) was grossly inefficient compared to a more advanced spell spell that capped at 32 mana (chain lightning).
Re: Life mana Spell preps
You raise your hands in the air. You wave them like you just don't care. Somebody says, "Hey!" Somebody says, "Ho!" Somebody screams.
GABRIEL4
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 03:45 PM CDT
<<Interesting question. I had always assumed it was the former. That each spell was a template like a weapon template is, and that the mana put into the spell was the equivalent to weight. As mana goes up, damage goes up following the template. Some templates can take more mana (weight) and thus have a higher capacity for damage.
Mana scale and damage template are independent in terms of specific values. For a given spell, damage goes up over a range of mana values, but the range of numbers are arbitrary and the actual numbers don't matter for the damage calculation. E.g. a spell with 10 to 100 mana range will increase damage output over that range. You could change that to 20 to 200 mana range and the mana cost would double (this is what happened to Dragon's Breath), or you could change that to 5 to 50 mana range and the mana cost would halve, but the damage output would remain the same.
Also incidentally, since it's a related question... in the current system, you can't compare two spells' mana efficiency by just using raw mana values. E.g. one 10 to 100 mana spell doesn't necessarily cost twice as much as one 10 to 50 mana spell, and usually doesn't since the former is usually a basic spell and the latter is usually advanced or esoteric. I think that this part might be changed in the new model, though, since he mentioned mana costs are being standardized. This might mean that it's possible to compare mana costs of two spells by comparing their raw mana values in the new system. I'm not sure of that though. It's definitely not the case now, anyway.
Mana scale and damage template are independent in terms of specific values. For a given spell, damage goes up over a range of mana values, but the range of numbers are arbitrary and the actual numbers don't matter for the damage calculation. E.g. a spell with 10 to 100 mana range will increase damage output over that range. You could change that to 20 to 200 mana range and the mana cost would double (this is what happened to Dragon's Breath), or you could change that to 5 to 50 mana range and the mana cost would halve, but the damage output would remain the same.
Also incidentally, since it's a related question... in the current system, you can't compare two spells' mana efficiency by just using raw mana values. E.g. one 10 to 100 mana spell doesn't necessarily cost twice as much as one 10 to 50 mana spell, and usually doesn't since the former is usually a basic spell and the latter is usually advanced or esoteric. I think that this part might be changed in the new model, though, since he mentioned mana costs are being standardized. This might mean that it's possible to compare mana costs of two spells by comparing their raw mana values in the new system. I'm not sure of that though. It's definitely not the case now, anyway.
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/23/2016 08:22 PM CDT
Damage is relative to the range of possible mana input, not the absolute values.
By standardizing mana costs I just meant adjusting the ones that were slightly off the normal templates. This didn't matter much to Warrior Mages.
And Chain Lightning is going to under perform on drakes and cabalists because a good chunk of its damage is fire based.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
By standardizing mana costs I just meant adjusting the ones that were slightly off the normal templates. This didn't matter much to Warrior Mages.
And Chain Lightning is going to under perform on drakes and cabalists because a good chunk of its damage is fire based.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
MOTTYA82
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 04:39 AM CDT
stone strike, a puncture damage spell is now using fist of stone, an impact damage spells messaging?
The first shard hits it in the chest, making it grunt slightly in surprise.
The second shard hits it in the abdomen, making it grunt slightly in surprise.
The third shard leaves minor abrasions on its right leg as it bounces off.
The fourth shard bounces off its neck, leaving it completely unfazed.
The final shard impacts its right leg with a dull thud, raising a blue-black bruise.
There is a jagged stone fragment buried completely into its right leg, a jagged stone fragment buried completely into its neck, a jagged stone fragment buried completely into its right leg, a jagged stone fragment buried completely into its abdomen, a jagged stone fragment buried completely into its chest.
The messages don't make sense. And sure stone strike is listed as puncture/impact... but since the shards lodge, it seems weird the messaging to imply, or straight up say in some cases, that they're bouncing off.
Also, can we get some fix on stone strike's short hands and compatibility with "target"
H>prep st st
You have no idea how to cast that spell.
H>targ st st
You have no idea how to cast that spell.
H>targ stone strike
You have no idea how to cast that spell.
H>prep stone strike
Since you're not feeding enough power into the spell pattern to make it coherent, you quickly work your way to the minimum required.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You trace a geometric sigil in the air, shaping the pattern of the Stone Strike spell.
same with frost scythe
>target fr sc
This spell cannot be targeted.
>prep fr sc
Since you're not feeding enough power into the spell pattern to make it coherent, you quickly work your way to the minimum required.
That won't affect your current attunement very much.
You trace a geometric sigil in the air, shaping the pattern of the Frost Scythe spell.
ASHAMAN1
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 05:27 AM CDT
Try STS and FRC respectively.
Samsaren
Samsaren
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 07:19 AM CDT
>>The messages don't make sense. And sure stone strike is listed as puncture/impact... but since the shards lodge, it seems weird the messaging to imply, or straight up say in some cases, that they're bouncing off.
IIRC impact is the primary damage type (And I was kind of surprised when I saw that) though I'm not where I can access the code to confirm this.
This complaint is also why I changed what lodges from shards to fragments - the idea being that even if it bounces some might be left behind. I could change it to splinters - that might fit the messaging better.
Alternately, I could rework the lodging since I'm not entirely thrilled with the mechanic.
One option I nearly implemented was to remove it entirely (You're not paying a slot for it right now and you arguably should be since it's just free damage with no downside and raising the slot cost isn't an option on an intro spell.)
Another would be to raise the threshold of damage you need to do to lodge which would help it better match the messaging.
>>Also, can we get some fix on stone strike's short hands and compatibility with "target"
All spell abbreviations are one word. STS and FRS are correct in this case.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
IIRC impact is the primary damage type (And I was kind of surprised when I saw that) though I'm not where I can access the code to confirm this.
This complaint is also why I changed what lodges from shards to fragments - the idea being that even if it bounces some might be left behind. I could change it to splinters - that might fit the messaging better.
Alternately, I could rework the lodging since I'm not entirely thrilled with the mechanic.
One option I nearly implemented was to remove it entirely (You're not paying a slot for it right now and you arguably should be since it's just free damage with no downside and raising the slot cost isn't an option on an intro spell.)
Another would be to raise the threshold of damage you need to do to lodge which would help it better match the messaging.
>>Also, can we get some fix on stone strike's short hands and compatibility with "target"
All spell abbreviations are one word. STS and FRS are correct in this case.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
ASHAMAN1
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 08:37 AM CDT
>>Another would be to raise the threshold of damage you need to do to lodge which would help it better match the messaging.
Speaking personally, I'd rather see this of the options. Though the lodging damage system can lead rapidly to frustration when you start combining things like STS and Hurled Blades. Amusing for PVE though I suppose.
Samsaren
Speaking personally, I'd rather see this of the options. Though the lodging damage system can lead rapidly to frustration when you start combining things like STS and Hurled Blades. Amusing for PVE though I suppose.
Samsaren
DR-RAESH
Re: ON TEST - Perceive Elements and New Casting Modifiers
03/25/2016 10:20 AM CDT
Alright, I slightly increased the threshold for lodging to better match the messaging thresholds. Lemme know if that feels better.
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
-Raesh
"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things
