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I'm pretty sure there is enough plat in the system to completely devalue all mats in a couple hours at only 250 plat a pull. Maybe put another two zeroes on?
"Warrior Mages don't bother covering up their disasters.
They're proud of them."
-Raesh
FAMEBRIGHT
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 12:11 PM CST
>>I'm pretty sure there is enough plat in the system to completely devalue all mats in a couple hours at only 250 plat a pull. Maybe put another two zeroes on?
Depends on the rate of T6 mats that gets dropped in those grab bags, really.
That said, I don't think plat sinks like that should go into play until the generation of plats is first addressed.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Depends on the rate of T6 mats that gets dropped in those grab bags, really.
That said, I don't think plat sinks like that should go into play until the generation of plats is first addressed.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
BADGOPHER
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 12:14 PM CST
>I'm pretty sure there is enough plat in the system to completely devalue all mats in a couple hours at only 250 plat a pull. Maybe put another two zeroes on?
My suggestion would be to keep the price as-is. Reduce the drop chances to about 1% of the existing bags. Remove the cash/gems/etc. Remove everything except the super rare success.
So pay 250 plat, and you either get an empty sack, or a rare material of some flavor.
The low plat per pull means even novices can play, and if you 'lose' you don't feel like you 'wasted' 2500 plat for no reason.
If you make the price point to high (25000 plat) then no one will pay because even if you win, you're spending way more than the 50$ it would cost you to buy the plat or rare metals themselves.
My suggestion would be to keep the price as-is. Reduce the drop chances to about 1% of the existing bags. Remove the cash/gems/etc. Remove everything except the super rare success.
So pay 250 plat, and you either get an empty sack, or a rare material of some flavor.
The low plat per pull means even novices can play, and if you 'lose' you don't feel like you 'wasted' 2500 plat for no reason.
If you make the price point to high (25000 plat) then no one will pay because even if you win, you're spending way more than the 50$ it would cost you to buy the plat or rare metals themselves.
SOUTHERK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 12:28 PM CST
Unfortunately there is no wear-out date on anything in the game, and to me, that has been the biggest issue with the economy. The fact is, you can get everything you will ever need within the first few circles of your character.
It's obviously too late to implement such a drastic system such as items only lasting for X amount of time before they are no longer usable (if I could wear a pair of jeans for 20 years and it still looks as good as the day I bought it..I'd be in heaven in RL)...so we all have become pack rats to some extent and then sell stuff for plats/dollars, cause why not?
You can play two ways:
1) Ignore fests/auctions and live perfectly happy with the 1,000s of items readily available throughout the World's NPC stores and shops or 2) Scurry around trying to make the money to buy the uber stuff, either with dollars or plats yet it doesn't really change anything about how you advance in the game. But if that makes you happy..so be it.
I've always prefered to live the first way and it has not hindered me one bit in improving my trader since 1998. Course, maybe I missed the boat in making RL profit on in game words; guess I just keep my day job.
Think about this for a bit...paying dollars for a sentence that reacts to another word or sentence? Can I get $5 for the word Lame. It's an ultra rare word, circa 1996..also will accept 5000 plats or best off for this word.
+Gidske
It's obviously too late to implement such a drastic system such as items only lasting for X amount of time before they are no longer usable (if I could wear a pair of jeans for 20 years and it still looks as good as the day I bought it..I'd be in heaven in RL)...so we all have become pack rats to some extent and then sell stuff for plats/dollars, cause why not?
You can play two ways:
1) Ignore fests/auctions and live perfectly happy with the 1,000s of items readily available throughout the World's NPC stores and shops or 2) Scurry around trying to make the money to buy the uber stuff, either with dollars or plats yet it doesn't really change anything about how you advance in the game. But if that makes you happy..so be it.
I've always prefered to live the first way and it has not hindered me one bit in improving my trader since 1998. Course, maybe I missed the boat in making RL profit on in game words; guess I just keep my day job.
Think about this for a bit...paying dollars for a sentence that reacts to another word or sentence? Can I get $5 for the word Lame. It's an ultra rare word, circa 1996..also will accept 5000 plats or best off for this word.
+Gidske
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 12:55 PM CST
>Unfortunately there is no wear-out date on anything in the game, and to me, that has been the biggest issue with the economy. The fact is, you can get everything you will ever need within the first few circles of your character.
Currency devaluation is a problem in every long-running MMORPG I've ever played, both text-based and 3D. Skill should mean something in regards to earning potential (i.e. higher level mobs should drop more gold), and players react very poorly to what they perceive to be punitive or overly-restrictive scarcity mechanics (i.e. no one wants to spend 200k plat on a mirror sword and then have it degrade over time, that would piss me off).
Introducing a plat sink into the game would be nice, but it has to be of mechanical benefit to the player or something that offers positive tangible value, not just making them re-buy their kertig weapons every few months (as much as I'm sure crafters would love that).
Currency devaluation is a problem in every long-running MMORPG I've ever played, both text-based and 3D. Skill should mean something in regards to earning potential (i.e. higher level mobs should drop more gold), and players react very poorly to what they perceive to be punitive or overly-restrictive scarcity mechanics (i.e. no one wants to spend 200k plat on a mirror sword and then have it degrade over time, that would piss me off).
Introducing a plat sink into the game would be nice, but it has to be of mechanical benefit to the player or something that offers positive tangible value, not just making them re-buy their kertig weapons every few months (as much as I'm sure crafters would love that).
SQUANTO
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 01:41 PM CST
>>Think about this for a bit...paying dollars for a sentence that reacts to another word or sentence? Can I get $5 for the word Lame. It's an ultra rare word, circa 1996..also will accept 5000 plats or best off for this word.<<
I hope with a statement like this, you are strictly f2p with no add-ons.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
I hope with a statement like this, you are strictly f2p with no add-ons.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
ZETHIN01095
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 01:53 PM CST
>>Introducing a plat sink into the game would be nice
We could explore the other option as well
1. Increase top end platinum generation by something large (say 500%)
2. Rescale platinum generation so that rats are within 20% of the top end
3. Release new coin denominations above platinum (probably need 3 or 4)
There is so much platinum in this system right now that I think we're past needing a sink. We need a complete devaluation and top end redesign
We could explore the other option as well
1. Increase top end platinum generation by something large (say 500%)
2. Rescale platinum generation so that rats are within 20% of the top end
3. Release new coin denominations above platinum (probably need 3 or 4)
There is so much platinum in this system right now that I think we're past needing a sink. We need a complete devaluation and top end redesign
AEDUINDR
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 02:18 PM CST
>>That said, I don't think plat sinks like that should go into play until the generation of plats is first addressed.
>>Currency devaluation is a problem in every long-running MMORPG I've ever played, both text-based and 3D.
Even real, and successful at that, economies cannot escape inflation. But the largest issue is definitely the generation. In video games such as this, the economy is not a closed system. If I go outside the west gate of Crossing and kill a goblin, new currency is generated into the system. It didn't come from somewhere, there is no goblin economy that he earned his money from, he didn't steal during a raid of the economy of Crossing, it just suddenly exists. When I also bring his skin to Falken, he just creates money out of thin air to pay me with, same for the gem buyers. They don't have an actual value of cash on hand that they are limited to, and that gets replenished from reselling those skins and gems into the local economy. That is the problem, period.
Currency sinks are the attempted solution. If the money is generated from nowhere, then so long as when it is spent it goes back to nowhere, you effectively have a closed system, which can be tweaked by generation rates and prices on goods/services. Sinks are already an imperfect solution to the problem, but it is exacerbated when two things happen. When money spent doesn't go back to nowhere, that is, it goes to other players. Now it isn't leaving the economy at the same rate it was when everything spent went back to nowhere, yet generation remains the same. The next problem is when players can obtain the goods/services they need without spending the currency generated. This is largely a result of pay for event/quest prizes, and to a related extent, alternate currency systems (tickets and scrip). This means that items which do require paying for using the actual game currency are going to see huge inflation in prices, exponentially increased by their scarcity (see Auctions).
Honest question though, is this even a problem outside access to unique/scarce items? Everyone's earning power has significantly increased since the first few festivals almost 20 years ago. It doesn't really matter that Cool New Item costs 300 plat at the next festival, when 10 years ago it would have cost 30, or even 3. The staff is free to set reasonable prices, and they have access to the data they need to determine how affordable it is across the player base. So long as I can still save up to buy Cool New Item, it doesn't matter to me if that is most of my savings, vs someone else buying a couple with pocket change and throwing it away when they get bored with it after a couple weeks.
>>Currency devaluation is a problem in every long-running MMORPG I've ever played, both text-based and 3D.
Even real, and successful at that, economies cannot escape inflation. But the largest issue is definitely the generation. In video games such as this, the economy is not a closed system. If I go outside the west gate of Crossing and kill a goblin, new currency is generated into the system. It didn't come from somewhere, there is no goblin economy that he earned his money from, he didn't steal during a raid of the economy of Crossing, it just suddenly exists. When I also bring his skin to Falken, he just creates money out of thin air to pay me with, same for the gem buyers. They don't have an actual value of cash on hand that they are limited to, and that gets replenished from reselling those skins and gems into the local economy. That is the problem, period.
Currency sinks are the attempted solution. If the money is generated from nowhere, then so long as when it is spent it goes back to nowhere, you effectively have a closed system, which can be tweaked by generation rates and prices on goods/services. Sinks are already an imperfect solution to the problem, but it is exacerbated when two things happen. When money spent doesn't go back to nowhere, that is, it goes to other players. Now it isn't leaving the economy at the same rate it was when everything spent went back to nowhere, yet generation remains the same. The next problem is when players can obtain the goods/services they need without spending the currency generated. This is largely a result of pay for event/quest prizes, and to a related extent, alternate currency systems (tickets and scrip). This means that items which do require paying for using the actual game currency are going to see huge inflation in prices, exponentially increased by their scarcity (see Auctions).
Honest question though, is this even a problem outside access to unique/scarce items? Everyone's earning power has significantly increased since the first few festivals almost 20 years ago. It doesn't really matter that Cool New Item costs 300 plat at the next festival, when 10 years ago it would have cost 30, or even 3. The staff is free to set reasonable prices, and they have access to the data they need to determine how affordable it is across the player base. So long as I can still save up to buy Cool New Item, it doesn't matter to me if that is most of my savings, vs someone else buying a couple with pocket change and throwing it away when they get bored with it after a couple weeks.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 02:34 PM CST
>>So long as I can still save up to buy Cool New Item
But what if you arguably can't, because the wealth gap is too large.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
But what if you arguably can't, because the wealth gap is too large.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ZETHIN01095
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 02:39 PM CST
>>Honest question though, is this even a problem outside access to unique/scarce items? Everyone's earning power has significantly increased since the first few festivals almost 20 years ago. It doesn't really matter that Cool New Item costs 300 plat at the next festival, when 10 years ago it would have cost 30, or even 3. The staff is free to set reasonable prices, and they have access to the data they need to determine how affordable it is across the player base. So long as I can still save up to buy Cool New Item, it doesn't matter to me if that is most of my savings, vs someone else buying a couple with pocket change and throwing it away when they get bored with it after a couple weeks.
The issue becomes the barrier for entry. Once you have a few thousand platinum (say 10k) it's pretty easy to make deals to increase that as long as you keep an eye on the items that move around. Getting that first 10k is hard though. I would say my thief, hunting by himself, in wyverns, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week makes around 500 platinum a week? If that? Alternatively if I flip the right items my trader's best day was a gain of 35k platinum lirum. Obviously I got lucky that day with some good deals, but at this point the only real way to make serious coin (outside of multi-account farming) is to play against whats already in the system.
The issue becomes the barrier for entry. Once you have a few thousand platinum (say 10k) it's pretty easy to make deals to increase that as long as you keep an eye on the items that move around. Getting that first 10k is hard though. I would say my thief, hunting by himself, in wyverns, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week makes around 500 platinum a week? If that? Alternatively if I flip the right items my trader's best day was a gain of 35k platinum lirum. Obviously I got lucky that day with some good deals, but at this point the only real way to make serious coin (outside of multi-account farming) is to play against whats already in the system.
SHADOW7988
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 05:26 PM CST
>But what if you arguably can't, because the wealth gap is too large.
As far as I am concerned I will NEVER get into the upper echelon of elite money in DR. I don't really care about that, I'm concerned that the numbers will be to much for the system to handle. And while playability should beat out realism, there is a certain amount of let's not hand wave this too much, I mean does a nation really have that kind of money that these auction items are going for a significant amount less then what Zoluren has to pay for 'stuffs'.
I do believe that the first step, well is admitting it is a problem, the second step is not listening to the naysayers who say it isn't a problem, the third is to make a plan, and the fourth is to make that plan a game reality. At this point you don't rub it into the people who were so opposed you just move on and develop other things that are cool for the game.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
"Phelim, what have I wrought?"
GM NaOHHI
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 S.V.o.L.t.R
As far as I am concerned I will NEVER get into the upper echelon of elite money in DR. I don't really care about that, I'm concerned that the numbers will be to much for the system to handle. And while playability should beat out realism, there is a certain amount of let's not hand wave this too much, I mean does a nation really have that kind of money that these auction items are going for a significant amount less then what Zoluren has to pay for 'stuffs'.
I do believe that the first step, well is admitting it is a problem, the second step is not listening to the naysayers who say it isn't a problem, the third is to make a plan, and the fourth is to make that plan a game reality. At this point you don't rub it into the people who were so opposed you just move on and develop other things that are cool for the game.
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
"Phelim, what have I wrought?"
GM NaOHHI
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 S.V.o.L.t.R
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/23/2016 05:40 PM CST
>Honest question though, is this even a problem outside access to unique/scarce items?
This was essentially my point.
You raise salient points about the pitfalls of a lack of monetary drain leading to inflation, but real economics don't require game design principles that video game economies do, and the "benefits" of artificial scarcity in a video game environment come with their own risks. The only games I've seen that successfully manage resources in the long-term are F2P mobile games, and in that sense the in-game economy is the entire game, with the whole point being to encourage you to spend more to make more.
If a way to address this inflation can be found that's great, but it needs to be fun, not a mechanical penalty to players that have cool/expensive stuff.
This was essentially my point.
You raise salient points about the pitfalls of a lack of monetary drain leading to inflation, but real economics don't require game design principles that video game economies do, and the "benefits" of artificial scarcity in a video game environment come with their own risks. The only games I've seen that successfully manage resources in the long-term are F2P mobile games, and in that sense the in-game economy is the entire game, with the whole point being to encourage you to spend more to make more.
If a way to address this inflation can be found that's great, but it needs to be fun, not a mechanical penalty to players that have cool/expensive stuff.
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/30/2016 10:46 AM CST
>plat sinks
I would love to code up some plat sinks. Here's the problem: they don't exist. I don't mean they don't exist in game, I mean the reality is they aren't possible to create.
A plat sink needs to remove more money than it generates. This makes combat buffs problematic, since either it will increase people's revenue or they won't pay for it.
A plat sink also needs to be consumable. This makes non-combat and combat items problematic, since our players are so gung-ho against consumables.
If you can come up with examples of consumable, or limited time buffs, that don't increase people's revenue more than they consume, and are useful and desirable to a broad portion of the player base, let me know.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
I would love to code up some plat sinks. Here's the problem: they don't exist. I don't mean they don't exist in game, I mean the reality is they aren't possible to create.
A plat sink needs to remove more money than it generates. This makes combat buffs problematic, since either it will increase people's revenue or they won't pay for it.
A plat sink also needs to be consumable. This makes non-combat and combat items problematic, since our players are so gung-ho against consumables.
If you can come up with examples of consumable, or limited time buffs, that don't increase people's revenue more than they consume, and are useful and desirable to a broad portion of the player base, let me know.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
JULIAN
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/30/2016 11:15 AM CST
I can think of some little convenience or fluff things, but they're mostly Premium perks. Like if everyone could have a house, but houses required upkeep, I think that would fit your criteria. People would really come to hate that, though.
Mazrian
Mazrian
SEPED
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/30/2016 11:18 AM CST
You could start allowing plat for things in the simucoin store or subscriptions features. That's a whole store of consumable items that demonstrably sell.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/30/2016 11:28 AM CST
>>A plat sink also needs to be consumable. This makes non-combat and combat items problematic, since our players are so gung-ho against consumables.
I think consumables for me suffer two issues:
1) Most boosters are incredibly short. A minute or two buff is barely worth it, because that goes by SO FAST.
2) I don't like consumables that, in a very broad sense, cost RL$. Taking alchemy for example. I think using pewter and foraged herbs to make a potion is awesome. Using niello, kadepa, or orichalcum sounds incredibly dumb to me.
3) The harder it is to obtain a consumable, the less likely I am to use it, because I never know if this is the time I'd really need it, let alone know if I'd ever get a chance to find another one. Once again, using an orichalcum potion for example: I just won't feel like X is a good time to use it because X isn't an abnormal/rare "enough" situation for me to use something that is abnormal/rare to get and create.
As another example: the crafting oils build for speed at Hollow Eve. I'm not against buying them, but I never do because I know I can't get them anytime I want (so I'll never feel it's a "good" time to use them). Toss in limited space for me to stockpile a few dozen of them, and I end up just opting out completely.
That said, I'd also consider "do I really want to spend 10x the price on oil just to save 10 seconds? It's just 10 seconds," so maybe I wouldn't invest in them if they were available commonly either. Who knows.
I do agree that part of the issue is that boosts are meant to make you do something better, and for DR that amounts to make money, so if you're paying money to use a boost that nets you less money, it's a silly thing to buy.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
I think consumables for me suffer two issues:
1) Most boosters are incredibly short. A minute or two buff is barely worth it, because that goes by SO FAST.
2) I don't like consumables that, in a very broad sense, cost RL$. Taking alchemy for example. I think using pewter and foraged herbs to make a potion is awesome. Using niello, kadepa, or orichalcum sounds incredibly dumb to me.
3) The harder it is to obtain a consumable, the less likely I am to use it, because I never know if this is the time I'd really need it, let alone know if I'd ever get a chance to find another one. Once again, using an orichalcum potion for example: I just won't feel like X is a good time to use it because X isn't an abnormal/rare "enough" situation for me to use something that is abnormal/rare to get and create.
As another example: the crafting oils build for speed at Hollow Eve. I'm not against buying them, but I never do because I know I can't get them anytime I want (so I'll never feel it's a "good" time to use them). Toss in limited space for me to stockpile a few dozen of them, and I end up just opting out completely.
That said, I'd also consider "do I really want to spend 10x the price on oil just to save 10 seconds? It's just 10 seconds," so maybe I wouldn't invest in them if they were available commonly either. Who knows.
I do agree that part of the issue is that boosts are meant to make you do something better, and for DR that amounts to make money, so if you're paying money to use a boost that nets you less money, it's a silly thing to buy.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
ASHBOMB
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/30/2016 12:59 PM CST
Setup a shop with the t7-t8 temp items for plat, make it permanent.
"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
"Game balance is sobbing over in the corner as it considers the ramifications of AoE Blufmor Garaen. Your spell slots send their condolences." - GM Raesh
DR-JAVAC
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/30/2016 02:27 PM CST
>Tev
You make good points, and I realize that consumables are never going to be popular. A plat sink by definition would need to be 24/7 accessible.
Buffs can be tiered in two ways. Longer buffs have less potency, shorter buffs are stronger. A 5 minute mana regen buff* could get you through a tough buffing routine, while a 2 hour mana regen buff* could get you through a hunting session. The 5 minute buff would regen more per pulse, or pulse more often than the 2 hour buff.
*These are examples, I have no current plans to implement a store that sells regen buffs of any degree.
>Setup a shop with the t7-t8 temp items for plat, make it permanent.
See my section on combat buffs being worth it. Either these would cost more than they generate, and nobody would bother, or they would not be viewed as "worth it".
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
You make good points, and I realize that consumables are never going to be popular. A plat sink by definition would need to be 24/7 accessible.
Buffs can be tiered in two ways. Longer buffs have less potency, shorter buffs are stronger. A 5 minute mana regen buff* could get you through a tough buffing routine, while a 2 hour mana regen buff* could get you through a hunting session. The 5 minute buff would regen more per pulse, or pulse more often than the 2 hour buff.
*These are examples, I have no current plans to implement a store that sells regen buffs of any degree.
>Setup a shop with the t7-t8 temp items for plat, make it permanent.
See my section on combat buffs being worth it. Either these would cost more than they generate, and nobody would bother, or they would not be viewed as "worth it".
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
ZETHIN01095
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/30/2016 03:49 PM CST
>>Plat Sink Suggests
So some of these might be a little wild, and require large game dev, but what I've seen that worked well in other games and I think we need to break away from the normal of "pay for combat buff"
Platinum to Game Time Subscription - The Wildstar Model ( https://shop.wildstar-online.com/product/creddNew )
People are allowed to buy game time at a specific rate and then resell it for platinum on an auction house. Make it transferable only via the auction house and you take a cut out of every transfer. People can still subscribe, but redeeming a credit to your account increases your sub by 30 days.
Mounts - I know people hate this system and it needs a complete overhaul (and not just because you can't joust on any of the neat looking mounts) but Vanity Mounts have the ability to suck massive amounts of platinum out of the game. Things like:
Normal mounts that look cool - High 1 time cost, low upkeep cost, same benefits as riding around today.
Directional Mounts - High 1 time cost, moderate upkeep cost. In addition to just riding around on the mount, you can command your mount to take you nearby landmarks automatically. After some RT (base it on the time it takes to make point to point trips) Unable to cross moderate rivers or moderate climbable ares.
Amphibious Mounts - Same as Directional Mounts, moderate to high upkeep cost but adept at crossing Rivers
Climbing Mounts - Same as Amphibious Mounts except adept at climbing
Flying Mounts - Very High 1 time cost, High Upkeep cost. Point to point travel without worrying about rivers or climbing. So if I'm standing in Shard I could be like Command Gryphon to fly to Leth and after 2 minutes I'm in Leth.
Epic Flying Mounts - Same as Flying Mounts but capable of flying to and from the Islands.
Think of it like the Flight Path system in WOW but also accessible from wherever you're standing to the closest "landmark flight path." You could even had a system similar to pilgrim badges for people to learn flight paths.
There's already a reasonable baseline for pricing for these things. "Flying Mounts" are essentially better brooms. Slot them in around half what they go for in auction (so 35kish) and go up and down from there. Upkeep needs to be significant as well, say 1% a week of total cost.
Land - Someone mentioned houses, expanding this system is a great idea! I'd love to see PvP zones added with mod-able fortresses. Simple keep rooms, boss in room, door won't open until you defeat the boss type thing. Fight your way through to the center to take over the keep and claim it (which also costs platinum to fix the damage you did). Ongoing damage from traps, consumable weapons. Hire guards, build fortifications, defend them yourself as well. This is the type of thing that would need some sort of reward (Titles are a good start, gear that changes stats in PvP areas, pets, mounts, ect)
Stat Respec Potions - Get someone at HQ to find out if anyone is actually buying these for cash and if they tell you "not really" start selling them for platinum.
I'm sure I'll think of more but those are some small (potions), moderate (gametime credit) and large (mounts/land control) systems to think about.
So some of these might be a little wild, and require large game dev, but what I've seen that worked well in other games and I think we need to break away from the normal of "pay for combat buff"
Platinum to Game Time Subscription - The Wildstar Model ( https://shop.wildstar-online.com/product/creddNew )
People are allowed to buy game time at a specific rate and then resell it for platinum on an auction house. Make it transferable only via the auction house and you take a cut out of every transfer. People can still subscribe, but redeeming a credit to your account increases your sub by 30 days.
Mounts - I know people hate this system and it needs a complete overhaul (and not just because you can't joust on any of the neat looking mounts) but Vanity Mounts have the ability to suck massive amounts of platinum out of the game. Things like:
Normal mounts that look cool - High 1 time cost, low upkeep cost, same benefits as riding around today.
Directional Mounts - High 1 time cost, moderate upkeep cost. In addition to just riding around on the mount, you can command your mount to take you nearby landmarks automatically. After some RT (base it on the time it takes to make point to point trips) Unable to cross moderate rivers or moderate climbable ares.
Amphibious Mounts - Same as Directional Mounts, moderate to high upkeep cost but adept at crossing Rivers
Climbing Mounts - Same as Amphibious Mounts except adept at climbing
Flying Mounts - Very High 1 time cost, High Upkeep cost. Point to point travel without worrying about rivers or climbing. So if I'm standing in Shard I could be like Command Gryphon to fly to Leth and after 2 minutes I'm in Leth.
Epic Flying Mounts - Same as Flying Mounts but capable of flying to and from the Islands.
Think of it like the Flight Path system in WOW but also accessible from wherever you're standing to the closest "landmark flight path." You could even had a system similar to pilgrim badges for people to learn flight paths.
There's already a reasonable baseline for pricing for these things. "Flying Mounts" are essentially better brooms. Slot them in around half what they go for in auction (so 35kish) and go up and down from there. Upkeep needs to be significant as well, say 1% a week of total cost.
Land - Someone mentioned houses, expanding this system is a great idea! I'd love to see PvP zones added with mod-able fortresses. Simple keep rooms, boss in room, door won't open until you defeat the boss type thing. Fight your way through to the center to take over the keep and claim it (which also costs platinum to fix the damage you did). Ongoing damage from traps, consumable weapons. Hire guards, build fortifications, defend them yourself as well. This is the type of thing that would need some sort of reward (Titles are a good start, gear that changes stats in PvP areas, pets, mounts, ect)
Stat Respec Potions - Get someone at HQ to find out if anyone is actually buying these for cash and if they tell you "not really" start selling them for platinum.
I'm sure I'll think of more but those are some small (potions), moderate (gametime credit) and large (mounts/land control) systems to think about.
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/30/2016 04:01 PM CST
You could implement plutocratic influences on provincial laws. Hundreds of thousands of plats strengthens or weakens laws/penalties for breaking the laws for X amount of time. After X amount of time, the pendulum effect kicks in and the laws swing back the other direction and the costs to keep laws/penalties from homeostasis for extended periods increases in cost.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
11/30/2016 06:19 PM CST
>>>> This makes non-combat and combat items problematic, since our players are so gung-ho against consumables.
I may be wrong, but I don't think the majority of players are against consumables as much as they are against consumables that can't be easily replaced.
For example, https://elanthipedia.play.net/Item:Frosted_glass_ring_edged_with_swirls_of_ultramarine , is a bad design (prior to infuser stones) precisely because it will run out of charges and not be usable. Infuser stones help, but they need to be readily available and, ideally, should not require RL$ to purchase.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Item:Knee-high_black_leather_boots_with_thick_cuffs are a better example because you can just buy new ones when the charges run out. They are not perfect because you have to stock up and hope you can buy more at the next Hollow Eve, of course.
DAMIAN
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/01/2016 09:39 PM CST
Here's my reco for plat sink:
1. portable, limited time crafting area (ie forge, lab, etc), plat per use determined at time of purchase, ie. if you want a 90 use one, you order a 90 use one for 9x the price of a 10 use one etc. I feel like this would be a convenience of not having to deal with overcrowded forges and if this was not available, it's not like they would not be forging elsewhere. Set a time limit on it, 2 or 3 hours maybe. Convenience.
2. entry to a maze type area where you'd be escorted to your own private hunting preserve. various options of already existing creatures, nothing new nothing fancy, you just get to find creature X after you invoke the pass and select which critter you want to fight. Again convenience, no travel, hunting area to yourself, i'd even allow the selection of 1,2,3,4 critters of engagement, with the room in which the character is in being the focal spawn point while giving the player the option of exprimenting with 1 or 2 or 3 etc to see if they are ready to handle more. Probably needs a timer of an hour or two or whatever.
3. grave recovery pass. this would give those who die often a bit more of a safety net, providing an NPC cleric/healer combo who would heal and restore memories in case of death. maybe you buy it at the trader guild, ensuring one of their members provides quick caravan access to wherever the body happens to be, or they work together with the ranger guild to retrieve the body, bring it othe NPCs who then heal and restore memories and/or ressurect. i realize that this would bypass the favor system rather blatantly but let's be honest here, the favor system is more about RP and more of a PITA in actual form.
4. access pass to FC so they can enter/exit by using passes whenever rather than when the portals are open, beef up all service shops in FC, armor/weapon/tool repair, skinning/gem sales, NPC healer, all available 24/7, pass is one time use, buy them by the packet.
5. housing areas in FC so people have more of a reason to go there, expand the hell out of it and charge an up front fee, no maintenance crap monthly.
I'm sure there are more and pobably issues with the ones i posted which i have not considered but none of those would set me on edge if someone was able to purchase access.
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
1. portable, limited time crafting area (ie forge, lab, etc), plat per use determined at time of purchase, ie. if you want a 90 use one, you order a 90 use one for 9x the price of a 10 use one etc. I feel like this would be a convenience of not having to deal with overcrowded forges and if this was not available, it's not like they would not be forging elsewhere. Set a time limit on it, 2 or 3 hours maybe. Convenience.
2. entry to a maze type area where you'd be escorted to your own private hunting preserve. various options of already existing creatures, nothing new nothing fancy, you just get to find creature X after you invoke the pass and select which critter you want to fight. Again convenience, no travel, hunting area to yourself, i'd even allow the selection of 1,2,3,4 critters of engagement, with the room in which the character is in being the focal spawn point while giving the player the option of exprimenting with 1 or 2 or 3 etc to see if they are ready to handle more. Probably needs a timer of an hour or two or whatever.
3. grave recovery pass. this would give those who die often a bit more of a safety net, providing an NPC cleric/healer combo who would heal and restore memories in case of death. maybe you buy it at the trader guild, ensuring one of their members provides quick caravan access to wherever the body happens to be, or they work together with the ranger guild to retrieve the body, bring it othe NPCs who then heal and restore memories and/or ressurect. i realize that this would bypass the favor system rather blatantly but let's be honest here, the favor system is more about RP and more of a PITA in actual form.
4. access pass to FC so they can enter/exit by using passes whenever rather than when the portals are open, beef up all service shops in FC, armor/weapon/tool repair, skinning/gem sales, NPC healer, all available 24/7, pass is one time use, buy them by the packet.
5. housing areas in FC so people have more of a reason to go there, expand the hell out of it and charge an up front fee, no maintenance crap monthly.
I'm sure there are more and pobably issues with the ones i posted which i have not considered but none of those would set me on edge if someone was able to purchase access.
Damian, a voice from the distant and long-forgotten past.
AIM:DamianDR
HOLSCHAUERK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/02/2016 02:59 AM CST
Make origami teach mech 10x more then it does now and I will pay 30x more for origami supplies. Those are consumable, always available etc. The system can be changed to train outfitting (artistry) after mech is retired.
Special deed packets that employ hirelings that allow you to claim material anywhere rather then at a society, people would pay up for those as well.
Repair kits that let you repair on the fly instantly for 10x more than the repair shop charges. Quality of life items people will pay for all day long. While not a plat sink, look at the response to the textbooks when they first dropped there's a great quality of life item people were willing to pay up for.
Player housing property / land lease for plat instead of platinum accounts.
Vault hireling contracts that will fetch items from your vault or place items in your vault from anywhere.
JULIAN
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/02/2016 05:58 AM CST
Uncap spell erasing in Throne City, but make it really expensive.
Mazrian
Mazrian
NIKPACK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/02/2016 08:19 AM CST
<<Make origami teach mech 10x more then it does now and I will pay 30x more for origami supplies. Those are consumable, always available etc. The system can be changed to train outfitting (artistry) after mech is retired.
True story, the main reason I started playing a thief was so I could pilfer origami paper envelopes for all my characters for free. The obvious solution would be to make these shops non-steal, but that removes 4 shops from potential stealing.
I think the sentiment is though: sell access to GREAT training for high amounts of plats. It would take some careful balancing so that you're buying your time, but it might work.
Nikpack
True story, the main reason I started playing a thief was so I could pilfer origami paper envelopes for all my characters for free. The obvious solution would be to make these shops non-steal, but that removes 4 shops from potential stealing.
I think the sentiment is though: sell access to GREAT training for high amounts of plats. It would take some careful balancing so that you're buying your time, but it might work.
Nikpack
ZETHIN01095
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/02/2016 08:37 AM CST
>>I think the sentiment is though: sell access to GREAT training for high amounts of plats. It would take some careful balancing so that you're buying your time, but it might work.
Part of why this is so hard is that for some people "great training" is what produces the highest return on plats which is why I think non-training related plat sinks are the way to go.
Part of why this is so hard is that for some people "great training" is what produces the highest return on plats which is why I think non-training related plat sinks are the way to go.
SOUTHERK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/02/2016 09:13 AM CST
>>Vault hireling contracts that will fetch items from your vault or place items in your vault from anywhere.
Yes.
And feed our caravans, and other things to make hirelings more useful; for a fee of course.
+Gidske
Yes.
And feed our caravans, and other things to make hirelings more useful; for a fee of course.
+Gidske
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/02/2016 01:36 PM CST
>>Part of why this is so hard is that for some people "great training" is what produces the highest return on plats which is why I think non-training related plat sinks are the way to go.
IMO it's also that the problem is rarely a need to lock faster, but a need to drain faster.
There's also the issue that the people who tend to plat-grind aren't doing it for the experience, but explicitly the money.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
IMO it's also that the problem is rarely a need to lock faster, but a need to drain faster.
There's also the issue that the people who tend to plat-grind aren't doing it for the experience, but explicitly the money.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
OLSONM6
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/02/2016 03:15 PM CST
Extra vault space at the rate of x plat per item per month
Don't forget to vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
Don't forget to vote:
http://www.topmudsites.com/vote-DragonRealms.html
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/02/2016 09:59 PM CST
You could sell mech textbooks that taught double or triple what origami does and people would pay thousands of plats for them right now - even knowing that with the advent of Craft Enchanting those textbooks would be worthless.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Main_Page
HOLSCHAUERK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/03/2016 05:51 PM CST
Sell alteration scrolls for 1000 plat a pop.
Automate the majority of the alteration process and have submissions sit in a queue until reviewed and approved by a GM.
Sell services like embiggening, slot changes, strap additions etc, through an automated NPC shop, charge plats in the thousands.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/03/2016 06:02 PM CST
>>>> Sell alteration scrolls for 1000 plat a pop.
I think that your proposed price is several orders of magnitude too low.
I think that your proposed price is several orders of magnitude too low.
HOLSCHAUERK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/03/2016 06:54 PM CST
So your contribution is to say that a viable price for alterations should be 30k+ each?
BADGOPHER
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/03/2016 08:13 PM CST
>So your contribution is to say that a viable price for alterations should be 30k+ each?
They were being sold for direct $ at HE 2015. Either Simu would do that again (probably at a dramatically increased price because they still got way too many buyers to handle), or they would convert the $ to Plat and then tack on a 5-30% price increase.
Plat seems to be holding around 1000 for 5$? So 30k plat is probably not wrong.
They were being sold for direct $ at HE 2015. Either Simu would do that again (probably at a dramatically increased price because they still got way too many buyers to handle), or they would convert the $ to Plat and then tack on a 5-30% price increase.
Plat seems to be holding around 1000 for 5$? So 30k plat is probably not wrong.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/03/2016 11:51 PM CST
>>> So your contribution is to say that a viable price for alterations should be 30k+ each?
yes
Alterations take a quite a bit of GM time. If the goal is to create a plat drain the GMs probably need to charge 100K - 1000K plats, or more.
yes
Alterations take a quite a bit of GM time. If the goal is to create a plat drain the GMs probably need to charge 100K - 1000K plats, or more.
BENNETTJ13
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/04/2016 01:32 AM CST
Guess what. The plat farmers have labs like anyone else. They can get alterations without wasting 100k plat. That's ridiculous.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
SQUANTO
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/04/2016 07:34 AM CST
I think it's pretty important to balance in a plat sink: cost and availability to all. If you make stuff too expensive, then only the people who you complain about who have all the nice stuff, who incidentally happen to have all the plats, will also get all the nice stuff, put it on sale for some insane markup and keep perpetuating that issue. If you make stuff too cheap, it defeats the purpose of being a sink, because it cannot keep up with plat generation.
End of day, this is a game. I am not a fan of punitive measures that impact the majority of players negatively to deal with the few perceived problem children at the top. I do like the idea of some kind of automated higher end customizable alteration system that does not have to be vetted by the GMs, though. Maybe a step lower than the ultra alteration one-on-one session thing we have going on.
Also, no one is going to be stupid enough (I hope) to blow 100k plat on an alteration. I think they went for like $20 when they were tested in the box office. What's that these, days, 3-4k plat?
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
End of day, this is a game. I am not a fan of punitive measures that impact the majority of players negatively to deal with the few perceived problem children at the top. I do like the idea of some kind of automated higher end customizable alteration system that does not have to be vetted by the GMs, though. Maybe a step lower than the ultra alteration one-on-one session thing we have going on.
Also, no one is going to be stupid enough (I hope) to blow 100k plat on an alteration. I think they went for like $20 when they were tested in the box office. What's that these, days, 3-4k plat?
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
HOLSCHAUERK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/04/2016 01:19 PM CST
Yeah-- there was a really cool alteration mechanic during a GS3 fest. You took a basic item and you could apply different prefixes and suffixes to the item automatically. It would be great if this could be done in DR, but on any item, perhaps any item without complex verbs or atmos at first.
Examples:
Weapons could have any (2)
a <descriptor> blade
a <descriptor> haft
a <descriptor> hilt
a <descriptor> pommel
a <descriptor> shaft
a <descriptor> grip
The available options would be based on weapon type.
Worn on the shoulders items (cloaks, mantles, longcoats etc)
Prefix: a <long, flowing, billowing, etc> <noun>
Suffix: with a (series of <material> closures, with <material> buttons, etc etc)
Non weapon/armor items could have their base material designated by the alteration, if a rare material is attempted, one would have to DECONSTRUCT <rare material item> to sacrifice that item for the alteration.
If this is pursued, you could crowd source the descriptor language.
GNIKOLEYCHUK
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/04/2016 02:18 PM CST
>>> Also, no one is going to be stupid enough (I hope) to blow 100k plat on an alteration. I think they went for like $20 when they were tested in the box office. What's that these, days, 3-4k plat?
My point is that at the proposed 1K plat price point (or even anything in that order of magnitude), our GM's will burn out providing alterations. Look at what happened when Ruins of Ulf'Hara was released and they had to pull the alteration vouchers less than a week into the event. I am pretty sure NAOHHI spent quite a few weeks of her time just trying to clear that queue. Now, imagine if we made that available 24/7 for in game currency. Even using $RL doesn't prevent that sort of burn out; why do you think they only offer customized properties in very limited numbers?
My point is that at the proposed 1K plat price point (or even anything in that order of magnitude), our GM's will burn out providing alterations. Look at what happened when Ruins of Ulf'Hara was released and they had to pull the alteration vouchers less than a week into the event. I am pretty sure NAOHHI spent quite a few weeks of her time just trying to clear that queue. Now, imagine if we made that available 24/7 for in game currency. Even using $RL doesn't prevent that sort of burn out; why do you think they only offer customized properties in very limited numbers?
SQUANTO
Re: Shop Pricing and Player-made goods
12/04/2016 03:16 PM CST
>>My point is that at the proposed 1K plat price point (or even anything in that order of magnitude), our GM's will burn out providing alterations. Look at what happened when Ruins of Ulf'Hara was released and they had to pull the alteration vouchers less than a week into the event. I am pretty sure NAOHHI spent quite a few weeks of her time just trying to clear that queue. Now, imagine if we made that available 24/7 for in game currency. Even using $RL doesn't prevent that sort of burn out; why do you think they only offer customized properties in very limited numbers?<<
Well, the way it is now, it probably will never happen for coins because alterations are a cash draw. Alterations are just not worth that much, either way. Just because the system in place is tedious, does not justify insane pricing structures. It's not like you gain any mechanical advantage because something is suddenly prettier. I do like the concept the player mentioned that GS3 uses. Something like that would generate a reasonable plat sink that players would feel comfortable taking advantage of. Plat sinks do not have to be insanely expensive to help bleed out coins from the system. I do think stuff like gem box should be available year round. Make it so you have a very low chance of winning stuff like maps, mineable rares (kertig, glaes, etc.), cool fluffed up gear/clothing, nice gems, T6 (is that the 95 hardness level?) weapons, etc. It doesn't have to be unreasonably priced, just the odds need to be well-thought out.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
Well, the way it is now, it probably will never happen for coins because alterations are a cash draw. Alterations are just not worth that much, either way. Just because the system in place is tedious, does not justify insane pricing structures. It's not like you gain any mechanical advantage because something is suddenly prettier. I do like the concept the player mentioned that GS3 uses. Something like that would generate a reasonable plat sink that players would feel comfortable taking advantage of. Plat sinks do not have to be insanely expensive to help bleed out coins from the system. I do think stuff like gem box should be available year round. Make it so you have a very low chance of winning stuff like maps, mineable rares (kertig, glaes, etc.), cool fluffed up gear/clothing, nice gems, T6 (is that the 95 hardness level?) weapons, etc. It doesn't have to be unreasonably priced, just the odds need to be well-thought out.
"Brace yourselves, Squanto is going to bleh blah fart fart bleh.." -the player of the character formerly known as Pureblade
