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<<Does that matter with the hour timer? Even if you add RTs to delay the mindstates, you're still pulsing to clear well before you can start learning again. I don't know if that's intentional or not, but it definitely feels unique to thievery.
Only if you limit yourself to one area. I start with Crossing, and if I want to train some more after it pulses down and before the timer is up I hit up Haven. I imagine this becomes harder to do with much higher stealing ranks, since the travel times between viable areas starts to get prohibitive. This was actually an advantage on my Moon Mage, since I could pick and choose exactly where my steal runs would be with almost no downtime.
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ABSOLON
PARACARRETERA
Re: Thievery ::NUDGE::
10/07/2015 04:36 PM CDT
Thievery is an annoying skill to train.
1. Add the ability to case a shop similar to climb practice that allows you to earn thievery skill experience. Have a timer on it and increase risk of getting caught each time you do it if you don't want to make training thievery completely risk free. Or make it possible only after X ranks. Something, anything.
2. Guild ability that allows you to clear warrants. Task system or lower cost to clear thievery warrants if you go to X NPC. A corrupt guard or something. Contact Warrant. Whatever. I intentionally steal at lower levels than I could because my item hiders and gweths and rings only have so many charges and getting caught is just plain annoying.
3. Add critter stealing finally. I get it that it's weird to steal from a wyvern (where exactly are their pockets?) but they're carrying gems and coins for crying out loud.
4. Have MARK teach some thievery.
5. Allow thieves to break into closed shops at night and steal.
1. Add the ability to case a shop similar to climb practice that allows you to earn thievery skill experience. Have a timer on it and increase risk of getting caught each time you do it if you don't want to make training thievery completely risk free. Or make it possible only after X ranks. Something, anything.
2. Guild ability that allows you to clear warrants. Task system or lower cost to clear thievery warrants if you go to X NPC. A corrupt guard or something. Contact Warrant. Whatever. I intentionally steal at lower levels than I could because my item hiders and gweths and rings only have so many charges and getting caught is just plain annoying.
3. Add critter stealing finally. I get it that it's weird to steal from a wyvern (where exactly are their pockets?) but they're carrying gems and coins for crying out loud.
4. Have MARK teach some thievery.
5. Allow thieves to break into closed shops at night and steal.
HEATHCHRISTINE
Re: Thievery
10/08/2015 08:19 PM CDT
>And thievery isn't our "guild skill". Backstab is. Anyone can steal. No one else can backstab.
From my very biased opinion, this. Thievery shouldn't get fixed solely from the perspective of the thieves guild, though clearly they are always going to have perks. Not having mark means if you think something is slowing down (no good way to test without wasting time) then your option is to try stuff to see if you don't get caught, which means lots of extra fines. The PAFO of this isn't fun for me, and I'd rather know the weight/value formula so I can move up in a reasonable manner.
I don't use progressive stealing, and since I added a new area (knife clan) I'm able to lock before the end of my run, it does take me about 30 minutes, so I alternate between stealing for a half hour, then hunting, then back to stealing. This is okay, but as some mentioned its depressing to put in the same amount of time/effort to learn one or two skills vs 20 or more hunting.
>There are rangers who uses thievery as their circling survival.
Primary survival. I can't speak to the bs req vs thievery since obviously I choose to train thievery, but I get the point that perhaps the Thief req shouldn't be so high.
>Pawn shops
Obviously need help. At over 900 ranks now I'm getting several items that pawn over a plat, and so its worth it for me, but how it works at low ranks is silly. The amount you make from pawning should offset fines at least, otherwise its like investing money into your thievery hobby.
I think I would rather see items teach a bit better. I don't mind the concept of a cool down timer per shop, so the heat can cool off, as long as you're able to lock in a reasonable area. Unless you're in Muspari, at some point (in my experience) you have to hit more than one province to lock which doesn't happen with any other skill.
Happy to see work done on this and looking forward to whatever fixes move forward. Please just make sure they aren't solely tied to thief-only abilities: mark, binning, thief only museums, etc. It should be a reasonable skill to train for any guild.
Jalika
DEFOL
Re: Thievery
10/09/2015 08:08 AM CDT
<< Thievery shouldn't get fixed solely from the perspective of the thieves guild, though clearly they are always going to have perks.
This is a pretty obvious one imo and that's why i don't think fixing thievery with contacts is a good idea. Even though we had some good suggestions in that area, this could actually make things worse. If any at all, thievery first needs some basic core level changes.
<< I choose to train thievery, but I get the point that perhaps the Thief req shouldn't be so high.
I don't completely agree. We only need 1020 thievery at 200 as opposed to 1470 primary survival or 1120 8th survival. We actually need 960 inner magic at 200 and that's a tert skill. Thievery really is nothing, even in current state.
<< since I added a new area (knife clan) I'm able to lock
If you don't mind me asking what are you doing in knife clan at 900 ranks? I can't find anything that would go up that high.
<< It should be a reasonable skill to train for any guild.
As a ranger you actually have one advantage. You can get across province borders without having to worry about reputation. I don't know about anyone else but reputation is the main reason i only run within a single province.
This is a pretty obvious one imo and that's why i don't think fixing thievery with contacts is a good idea. Even though we had some good suggestions in that area, this could actually make things worse. If any at all, thievery first needs some basic core level changes.
<< I choose to train thievery, but I get the point that perhaps the Thief req shouldn't be so high.
I don't completely agree. We only need 1020 thievery at 200 as opposed to 1470 primary survival or 1120 8th survival. We actually need 960 inner magic at 200 and that's a tert skill. Thievery really is nothing, even in current state.
<< since I added a new area (knife clan) I'm able to lock
If you don't mind me asking what are you doing in knife clan at 900 ranks? I can't find anything that would go up that high.
<< It should be a reasonable skill to train for any guild.
As a ranger you actually have one advantage. You can get across province borders without having to worry about reputation. I don't know about anyone else but reputation is the main reason i only run within a single province.
HEATHCHRISTINE
Re: Thievery
10/09/2015 10:57 AM CDT
>If you don't mind me asking what are you doing in knife clan at 900 ranks? I can't find anything that would go up that high.
So when I said knife, I meant horse. That said, there is one shop I hit in knife. The knife/wolf/tiger area doesn't have a lot for me but there are some things, especially with the new shop changes.
[Knife Clan, Bukor's Leatherworks]
Bukor, a Gor'Tog of great skill but suspect taste, is well known in the Clan for his temper. He knows his work is excellent, and expects to be compensated accordingly.
You also see a low round table with several things on it and a short oak counter with a couple of things on it.
Obvious exits: northeast, out.
HR> steal jerkin
Moving stealthily, you manage to grab a leather jerkin right from underneath a sales clerk's very nose.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
HR> skill thievery
SKILL: Rank/Percent towards next rank/Amount learning/Mindstate fraction
Thievery: 911 05.48% very focused (21/34)
Time Development Points: 558 Favors: 4 Deaths: 319 Departs: 83
Overall state of mind: clear
EXP HELP for more information
>reputation
That's interesting. Having not played a thief above 10 circles or so its not something I'm very familiar with. It is pretty simple to move around as a ranger, so I suppose not deal with rep is a good thing. Most of the shops being in urban areas and dropping our "bonus" modifier might be a balance to it. I can usually keep it in check with MON and hunting in high wilderness areas in the downtime though.
Jalika
BRYCOLE83
Re: Thievery
10/09/2015 02:38 PM CDT
>> Please, tell us all how you took all three of those to 300 Stealing so easily outside of the Crossing (admittedly, the shop revision is slowly making identifying difficulty a hint easier, since you can APP items to identify weight) without Mark, without using Progressive Stealing, without using a list someone else created, and without getting caught with any notable frequency, all the while making a profit. Tell us your magical formula to determine the optimal item to steal. And tell us your plan to get Stealing all the way to, say, 520, on any non-Thief, without using any of those tools and without any noticeable rate of getting caught.
I never said I made a profit. It's possible, but I wasn't tracking it. I could likely have made a profit if i decided to steal from playes and NPCs and I know stealing is more profitable at higher levels so wasn't too worried about it.
I tested item ranges out using epedia as a baseline. I then looked for shops and areas that were missing and any items that I could improve on. I also took into account my stats and used whatever buffs I could. Once I found an item that was giving good exp, I just watched for exp slowing down. Once I hit slowdowns I would add +1 to the items unless there was a harder item available. I would go all the way to +6 stealing attempts. (not sure why people are stopping at 4.) Once an item hit trivial I would upgrade to the next item and repeat.
Also, I really think people shouldn't be so dismissive of 0-300 ranks. For a majority of players, that's probably as high as they get.
>> without using any of those tools
The progressive stealing script is really bad and a crutch that is holding people back. There is a lot of room for adaptation and creativity in the stealing skill. Sure, it's a little more work then some skills, but it has some pretty high payoffs. (Player and shop stealing.)
There has been a lot of advice given in this thread and the other threads about how to improve stealing, not just from me, but from other players. It seems like a majority of posters here are simply ignoring that advice.
I never said I made a profit. It's possible, but I wasn't tracking it. I could likely have made a profit if i decided to steal from playes and NPCs and I know stealing is more profitable at higher levels so wasn't too worried about it.
I tested item ranges out using epedia as a baseline. I then looked for shops and areas that were missing and any items that I could improve on. I also took into account my stats and used whatever buffs I could. Once I found an item that was giving good exp, I just watched for exp slowing down. Once I hit slowdowns I would add +1 to the items unless there was a harder item available. I would go all the way to +6 stealing attempts. (not sure why people are stopping at 4.) Once an item hit trivial I would upgrade to the next item and repeat.
Also, I really think people shouldn't be so dismissive of 0-300 ranks. For a majority of players, that's probably as high as they get.
>> without using any of those tools
The progressive stealing script is really bad and a crutch that is holding people back. There is a lot of room for adaptation and creativity in the stealing skill. Sure, it's a little more work then some skills, but it has some pretty high payoffs. (Player and shop stealing.)
There has been a lot of advice given in this thread and the other threads about how to improve stealing, not just from me, but from other players. It seems like a majority of posters here are simply ignoring that advice.
BADGOPHER
Re: Thievery
10/09/2015 05:16 PM CDT
>The progressive stealing script is really bad
That's great. You're the only one who keeps bringing it up. Almost everyone you've replied to runs stealing by hand.
That's great. You're the only one who keeps bringing it up. Almost everyone you've replied to runs stealing by hand.
DEFOL
Re: Thievery
10/10/2015 12:43 PM CDT
<< That said, there is one shop I hit in knife.
You're right, i guess i must have dismissed this one based on low cost and weight but actually looks good to go.
<< Having not played a thief above 10 circles or so its not something I'm very familiar with.
Yea, well i'm not saying thieves don't have a huge advantages by having mark alone and all kinds of bonuses but have to look at the positive side. :)
You're right, i guess i must have dismissed this one based on low cost and weight but actually looks good to go.
<< Having not played a thief above 10 circles or so its not something I'm very familiar with.
Yea, well i'm not saying thieves don't have a huge advantages by having mark alone and all kinds of bonuses but have to look at the positive side. :)
LEGERES
Re: Thievery
11/29/2016 12:42 PM CST
(yes i know this thread is old) maybe it's just me but i've always wanted to steal from guards, and have more npcs to steal from not just the money bags walking around for money, like the food vendors to get food (i can be simple lol) - i think consequences for getting got by a guard when stealing from a guard is arrested right away and probably no ability to plead ::shrugs:: just an idea
