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>It hits like a wet noodle in pve as it is and there is no way we can pull off comparable dps of the raw aoe killing power a few other guilds possess. You can correct me if i'm wrong but we can barely sustain 2 KPM using backstab.
Using pve DPS as a value for Backstab is tricky. It needs you to hide first (2 seconds roundtime minimum) and it mandates small weapons, so in order to be "equal" to a 2HE of doom in dps (ignoring TM, too difficult a comparison, apples and oranges), it needs to have like a 400% damage modifier (which is, I believe, in the neighborhood of what it actually gets).
It's not that far off though? My 2HE is like 3KPM. The fact that it's even comparable to just standing around swinging swords is obscene, that's like being able to use charged combat maneuvers over and over again with no cooldown by hiding first.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
BADGOPHER
Re: New Khri in Test
06/23/2018 06:38 AM CDT
In an invasion, my thief rarely kills anything.
Either people spam get;throw and aoe damage so fast I can't even engage, let alone BS, or the enemy just smacks me and says 'no, piss off, you can't hide on me'.
In a boss fight, my thief rarely does anything.
I've never found one that didn't disable hiding so BS is out anyway. But even if not, the flex per hit mechanic would mean my alpha was worth less than someone else spamming 2-5 hits in the same duration.
In RP, my thief rarely does anything.
Most of the GMNPCs are set to have massive perception or just use no-hide rooms.
So BS I guess is a nice training tool against enemies you regularly hunt, but in the engagements where you should be using this thing, it's just turned off. And even when it's not, putting you up against a Bard or something using his secondary toolset vs. your primary one, he will grossly outshine you. Put you up against a cleric or WM and it's so far beyond comparable it's a laugh riot.
Either people spam get;throw and aoe damage so fast I can't even engage, let alone BS, or the enemy just smacks me and says 'no, piss off, you can't hide on me'.
In a boss fight, my thief rarely does anything.
I've never found one that didn't disable hiding so BS is out anyway. But even if not, the flex per hit mechanic would mean my alpha was worth less than someone else spamming 2-5 hits in the same duration.
In RP, my thief rarely does anything.
Most of the GMNPCs are set to have massive perception or just use no-hide rooms.
So BS I guess is a nice training tool against enemies you regularly hunt, but in the engagements where you should be using this thing, it's just turned off. And even when it's not, putting you up against a Bard or something using his secondary toolset vs. your primary one, he will grossly outshine you. Put you up against a cleric or WM and it's so far beyond comparable it's a laugh riot.
PRETTY-MEGAN
Re: New Khri in Test
06/23/2018 10:54 AM CDT
>BS I guess is a nice training tool against enemies you regularly hunt, but in the engagements where you should be using this thing, it's just turned off.
This. The entire post. I never use it during invasions because I can NEVER hide on things, even ones I can kill easily. I'm not much for PVP but the few times I've had a conflict with someone, I was pretty outclassed (could have been level or experience in PVP, so not much of a comparison.)
LEIGO2
Re: New Khri in Test
06/23/2018 10:56 AM CDT
"Using pve DPS as a value for Backstab is tricky."
This is a 99.9% PVE game so I would say using pve as the format to which it should be balanced is appropriate. As far as DPS/killing capacity, NMU still do not have a secondary damage stream like cyclics/TM of other guilds so even if the changes make thieves better I don't think it will likely tip the scale out of balance.
Though I imagine GvG isn't appropriate in this thread?
DEFOL
Re: New Khri in Test
06/23/2018 04:34 PM CDT
<< Using pve DPS as a value for Backstab is tricky. It needs you to hide first (2 seconds roundtime minimum) and it mandates small weapons,
It's tricky alright. The fact that you need to use stealth to set up your attacks also prevents creatures from advancing you so a lot of time is spent trying to reach melee range on every individual target. It's pretty clunky to use if your goal is to kill as many enemies as possible, on the other hand you won't be open to a lot of attacks. If enemies would just show up in melee it would already have a lot more killing power. I get why it's hard to balance.
It's tricky alright. The fact that you need to use stealth to set up your attacks also prevents creatures from advancing you so a lot of time is spent trying to reach melee range on every individual target. It's pretty clunky to use if your goal is to kill as many enemies as possible, on the other hand you won't be open to a lot of attacks. If enemies would just show up in melee it would already have a lot more killing power. I get why it's hard to balance.
BADGOPHER
Re: New Khri in Test
06/23/2018 04:48 PM CDT
I've done a little testing now.
I'd make a couple of over-arching suggestions if I could:
1) The khri picking mechanics are a bit clunky, any chance we can just use the spell picking ones?
1a) The unlearn mechanic is 'ask kalag about X unlearn' while the pick is 'ask kalag about X choose', which is annoying if you're testing.
2) Can we change the name of slight? I see it being very easily conflated with 'sight' because L. I might suggest khri slide - as in let it slide.
3) I don't understand the current tier/cost structure. I thought khri simply used the 'count prerequesites' method, but the cost is all over the place - a tier 3 might cost the same as a tier 2, 3, or 4 ability.
Specific khri:
The + intelligence from frighten seems to stay after stopping the khri. All other khri seemed to drop the bonus stat/skill as soon as I did a stop.
I'd make a couple of over-arching suggestions if I could:
1) The khri picking mechanics are a bit clunky, any chance we can just use the spell picking ones?
1a) The unlearn mechanic is 'ask kalag about X unlearn' while the pick is 'ask kalag about X choose', which is annoying if you're testing.
2) Can we change the name of slight? I see it being very easily conflated with 'sight' because L. I might suggest khri slide - as in let it slide.
3) I don't understand the current tier/cost structure. I thought khri simply used the 'count prerequesites' method, but the cost is all over the place - a tier 3 might cost the same as a tier 2, 3, or 4 ability.
Specific khri:
The + intelligence from frighten seems to stay after stopping the khri. All other khri seemed to drop the bonus stat/skill as soon as I did a stop.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: New Khri in Test
06/25/2018 10:22 AM CDT
I wonder if backstab should be turned into a melee-version of snipe.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
BADGOPHER
Re: New Khri in Test
06/25/2018 12:08 PM CDT
>I wonder if backstab should be turned into a melee-version of snipe.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Snipe
I think that would really, really, screw thieves over. Snipe is, as documented, an accuracy buff combined with a 'hidden name' feature.
Thieves don't need more accuracy. They desperately need more damage output and hard crowd control to enable existing stealth-mandatory damage moves.
Thief high alpha isn't really meaningful when everyone can stack similar burst or damage per unit time without the hiding requirement.
https://elanthipedia.play.net/Snipe
I think that would really, really, screw thieves over. Snipe is, as documented, an accuracy buff combined with a 'hidden name' feature.
Thieves don't need more accuracy. They desperately need more damage output and hard crowd control to enable existing stealth-mandatory damage moves.
Thief high alpha isn't really meaningful when everyone can stack similar burst or damage per unit time without the hiding requirement.
JULIAN
Re: New Khri in Test
06/25/2018 12:10 PM CDT
>>Thief high alpha isn't really meaningful when everyone can stack similar burst or damage per unit time without the hiding requirement.<<
They can't, though. That's the thing. Thief alpha is the alphaest alpha. What balances it is being tricky to hit the conditions needed to make it work.
Mazrian
They can't, though. That's the thing. Thief alpha is the alphaest alpha. What balances it is being tricky to hit the conditions needed to make it work.
Mazrian
TEVESHSZAT
Re: New Khri in Test
06/25/2018 12:27 PM CDT
>>I think that would really, really, screw thieves over. Snipe is, as documented, an accuracy buff combined with a 'hidden name' feature.
AFAIK, accuracy and damage are closely linked. On top of that, I don't think it has to explicitly be the same bonuses as snipe, as much as it would be neat if backstab kept someone hidden. Part of the "Backstab doesn't do as much DPS as it could" seems to be repeatedly tied to "and I have to keep hiding!," which is why I'm suggesting "What if a really good Thief doesn't have to keep hiding?"
>>Thieves don't need more accuracy. They desperately need more damage output and hard crowd control to enable existing stealth-mandatory damage moves.
"Backstab should keep Thieves hidden" doesn't include a hidden "and they should never get an AoE attack, either" at the end.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
AFAIK, accuracy and damage are closely linked. On top of that, I don't think it has to explicitly be the same bonuses as snipe, as much as it would be neat if backstab kept someone hidden. Part of the "Backstab doesn't do as much DPS as it could" seems to be repeatedly tied to "and I have to keep hiding!," which is why I'm suggesting "What if a really good Thief doesn't have to keep hiding?"
>>Thieves don't need more accuracy. They desperately need more damage output and hard crowd control to enable existing stealth-mandatory damage moves.
"Backstab should keep Thieves hidden" doesn't include a hidden "and they should never get an AoE attack, either" at the end.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
BADGOPHER
Re: New Khri in Test
06/25/2018 01:40 PM CDT
>Thief high alpha isn't really meaningful when everyone can stack similar burst or damage per unit time without the hiding requirement.<<
>They can't, though. That's the thing. Thief alpha is the alphaest alpha. What balances it is being tricky to hit the conditions needed to make it work.
If you re-read it, you'll see that I used three different terms.
Thieves have alpha. A first strike.
WM's and other guilds have burst. A large amount of damage.
Everyone has damage per unit time.
My contention is that WM certainly have higher per-unit-time damage than thieves, and that they arguably have better burst.
It might not be an 'alpha strike' but being able to slap down 3 spells and a melee attack in 2 seconds is quite a bit of damage.
>"Backstab should keep Thieves hidden" doesn't include a hidden "and they should never get an AoE attack, either" at the end.
I can only respond to what you write, not what you meant to write.
>Part of the "Backstab doesn't do as much DPS as it could" seems to be repeatedly tied to "and I have to keep hiding!,"
It might solve part of the problem, but I think it creates more. I'd steer away from the already over-reliance on stealth. In PVP it makes just a whole new universe of worms, and in PVE it doesn't solve the real problem, which is engagement time and the removal of stealth as an option (and per-hit flex mechanics).
>They can't, though. That's the thing. Thief alpha is the alphaest alpha. What balances it is being tricky to hit the conditions needed to make it work.
If you re-read it, you'll see that I used three different terms.
Thieves have alpha. A first strike.
WM's and other guilds have burst. A large amount of damage.
Everyone has damage per unit time.
My contention is that WM certainly have higher per-unit-time damage than thieves, and that they arguably have better burst.
It might not be an 'alpha strike' but being able to slap down 3 spells and a melee attack in 2 seconds is quite a bit of damage.
>"Backstab should keep Thieves hidden" doesn't include a hidden "and they should never get an AoE attack, either" at the end.
I can only respond to what you write, not what you meant to write.
>Part of the "Backstab doesn't do as much DPS as it could" seems to be repeatedly tied to "and I have to keep hiding!,"
It might solve part of the problem, but I think it creates more. I'd steer away from the already over-reliance on stealth. In PVP it makes just a whole new universe of worms, and in PVE it doesn't solve the real problem, which is engagement time and the removal of stealth as an option (and per-hit flex mechanics).
TEVESHSZAT
Re: New Khri in Test
06/25/2018 01:47 PM CDT
>>I can only respond to what you write, not what you meant to write.
That's why I explicitly pointed out that a suggestion about backstab doesn't have strings attached to it about other suggestions becoming nullified as a result.
>>It might solve part of the problem, but I think it creates more. I'd steer away from the already over-reliance on stealth.
Backstab already relies on stealth. Making it embrace stealth more doesn't tweak that, nor, once again, does it mean Thieves can't have non-stealth attacks.
>>the real problem, which is engagement time and the removal of stealth as an option (and per-hit flex mechanics).
Agreed, but once again that has nothing to do with how to make backstab more awesome. Adjusting how effective flex mobs are at perception and the way melee attacks are at an understandable disadvantage to missile attacks and that attacking one thing at a time is worse than attacking a million things at a time and that secondary/tertiary damage sources would be neat are all valid points, and none of those really clash with the viewpoint of "maybe backstab should keep someone in hiding, that would be neat," unless we're considering development as a zero-sum game where if backstab keeps people hidden then no other development takes place for the Thieves guild or within the combat system as a whole.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
That's why I explicitly pointed out that a suggestion about backstab doesn't have strings attached to it about other suggestions becoming nullified as a result.
>>It might solve part of the problem, but I think it creates more. I'd steer away from the already over-reliance on stealth.
Backstab already relies on stealth. Making it embrace stealth more doesn't tweak that, nor, once again, does it mean Thieves can't have non-stealth attacks.
>>the real problem, which is engagement time and the removal of stealth as an option (and per-hit flex mechanics).
Agreed, but once again that has nothing to do with how to make backstab more awesome. Adjusting how effective flex mobs are at perception and the way melee attacks are at an understandable disadvantage to missile attacks and that attacking one thing at a time is worse than attacking a million things at a time and that secondary/tertiary damage sources would be neat are all valid points, and none of those really clash with the viewpoint of "maybe backstab should keep someone in hiding, that would be neat," unless we're considering development as a zero-sum game where if backstab keeps people hidden then no other development takes place for the Thieves guild or within the combat system as a whole.
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
2DUMBARSE
Re: New Khri in Test
06/25/2018 02:54 PM CDT
It would be neat if you could backstab without hiding, too. That's not sarcasm. If you stun or immobilize someone, I feel like that should help you move into position and do the same thing you'd otherwise do from hiding. Now, there should probably be a bigger bonus from hiding for the time it takes to set up, but yeah. There are plenty of games where backstab just has a positional requirement.
FUTILITY
Re: New Khri in Test
06/25/2018 03:15 PM CDT
>>If you re-read it, you'll see that I used three different terms.
"Alpha strike" has a specific usage in game design; it is your highest burst damage attack.
I don't think Thieves will get an AOE attack because it is my suspicion that they're trading it for having the best alpha strike in the game. Single-target DPS is rather their stock in trade. Part of the reason DR has "supernatural Stealth" (I believe those are Dartenian's words, not mine, addressing why people can hide in a melee engaged with four enemies) is largely because the design of Thieves (and I guess Necros) would have to change significantly to survive in the new paradigm. (I did not forget about Rangers. They'd actually do about the same as now in a Stealth-less combat paradigm.)
But this conversation has veered into a different conversation taking place elsewhere about abilities that ignore skill checks. Regardless of what design documents say the expectation and practice for this game has been to move away from those and make the skill factor even greater. To simply step back from that because -- and I'm only guessing at the reasons here -- it is clear that the existing Stealth-centric paradigm is broken and it would take too long to fix Stealth is not a positive outcome.
Players notice these decisions and they weigh in a lot of considerations. The precedent will not go unnoticed, frankly, and I think that will have horrible long-term consequences for, in particular, Thieves.
"Alpha strike" has a specific usage in game design; it is your highest burst damage attack.
I don't think Thieves will get an AOE attack because it is my suspicion that they're trading it for having the best alpha strike in the game. Single-target DPS is rather their stock in trade. Part of the reason DR has "supernatural Stealth" (I believe those are Dartenian's words, not mine, addressing why people can hide in a melee engaged with four enemies) is largely because the design of Thieves (and I guess Necros) would have to change significantly to survive in the new paradigm. (I did not forget about Rangers. They'd actually do about the same as now in a Stealth-less combat paradigm.)
But this conversation has veered into a different conversation taking place elsewhere about abilities that ignore skill checks. Regardless of what design documents say the expectation and practice for this game has been to move away from those and make the skill factor even greater. To simply step back from that because -- and I'm only guessing at the reasons here -- it is clear that the existing Stealth-centric paradigm is broken and it would take too long to fix Stealth is not a positive outcome.
Players notice these decisions and they weigh in a lot of considerations. The precedent will not go unnoticed, frankly, and I think that will have horrible long-term consequences for, in particular, Thieves.
SAFETY
Re: New Khri in Test
06/26/2018 05:11 PM CDT
Would love to see some kind of aoe for thieves. Not even an op or constant one, just something to help clear out weaker mobs maybe. Possibly an extention of shadowstep, blink in and out of all things in melee range rapidly striking. Could be a utility Khri that's single cost activate.
In the alternative, maybe some weird illusory daggers generating from thrown or a passive rapid counter to melee attacks.
In the alternative, maybe some weird illusory daggers generating from thrown or a passive rapid counter to melee attacks.
NOTANECRO
Re: New Khri in Test
06/27/2018 08:43 AM CDT
metaspell for khri steady where you rapidly launch arrows into the air and let them rain down every pulse?
FUTILITY
Re: New Khri in Test
06/27/2018 01:58 PM CDT
Let me try this in familiar language.
The only way I want to see Thieves with an AOE is if backstab is removed.
The only way I want to see Thieves with an AOE is if backstab is removed.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: New Khri in Test
06/27/2018 02:14 PM CDT
>>The only way I want to see Thieves with an AOE is if backstab is removed.
Is there a limit to how much good one particular guild should have? Sure, but the line in the same isn't "attack that hits more than one target."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
Is there a limit to how much good one particular guild should have? Sure, but the line in the same isn't "attack that hits more than one target."
Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.
BENNETTJ13
Re: New Khri in Test
06/27/2018 07:51 PM CDT
>Is there a limit to how much good one particular guild should have? Sure, but the line in the same isn't "attack that hits more than one target."
Shhh, it’s just amusing now.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
Shhh, it’s just amusing now.
Monster Elec
You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.
BADGOPHER
Re: New Khri in Test
06/27/2018 08:46 PM CDT
Meh, remove back stab.
Add in AOE DFA from ranged with any weapon on, say, a 20 second timer with a moderate concentration requirement, with the option to focus on a single target for 10% more cost at melee range.
Add in AOE DFA from ranged with any weapon on, say, a 20 second timer with a moderate concentration requirement, with the option to focus on a single target for 10% more cost at melee range.
MOD-IRISTI
Re: New Khri in Test **NUDGE**
06/27/2018 09:30 PM CDT
Let's try to keep this conversation to the new Khri in Test please.
Iristi
DragonRealms Board Monitor
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Iristi
DragonRealms Board Monitor
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LHALLFIN
Re: New Khri in Test
06/30/2018 02:08 AM CDT
I'd like to get into test, but looks like I'm waiting for the next copy. Just re-subbed today to try this out.
Sounds interesting to say the least. I've been needing an excuse to get back to DR.
- Loggrim
If you can't imagine the smile on my face stop reading.
Sounds interesting to say the least. I've been needing an excuse to get back to DR.
- Loggrim
If you can't imagine the smile on my face stop reading.
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
07/02/2018 08:42 PM CDT
>I used terrify against a rat and in 3 pulses, at 226 ranks, went to 7/34 mind state, and 1 or 2 out of 34 on backstab. I assume it's because this is still a stat check and I was massive win on that.
That is definitely a bug. You should not be learning anything from rats with 226 ranks.
Javac
That one guy
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That is definitely a bug. You should not be learning anything from rats with 226 ranks.
Javac
That one guy
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LHALLFIN
Re: New Khri in Test
07/06/2018 08:50 PM CDT
Wish I could get into test, but guess I'll just wait for the release.
If you can't imagine the smile on my face stop reading.
If you can't imagine the smile on my face stop reading.
ILLIENA
Re: New Khri in Test
07/12/2018 06:16 AM CDT
I logged my thief into Test to, err, test.
a) I wasn't grandfathered and didn't have my khri/ambush cleared. Is this because I hadn't logged into Test before July?
b) Is there any way to learn the slot cost of a khri? The GL's description doesn't mention it, and it's not listed under khri for the ones you know.
a) I wasn't grandfathered and didn't have my khri/ambush cleared. Is this because I hadn't logged into Test before July?
b) Is there any way to learn the slot cost of a khri? The GL's description doesn't mention it, and it's not listed under khri for the ones you know.
ILLIENA
Re: New Khri in Test
07/12/2018 06:33 AM CDT
c) I was able to unlearn a prerequisite without first unlearning the khri that depend on it. Specifically, I was able to unlearn Plunder while keeping Guile. Haven't tested other combinations.
ILLIENA
Re: New Khri in Test
07/12/2018 07:33 AM CDT
d) It seems that I can start every khri from standing, whereas in Prime I need to sit for anything other than the intro 3. Intended?
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
07/16/2018 09:41 AM CDT
a) Possibly. The way I’m checking may be a bit odd with characters that have never been logged into Test
b) Perhaps not. I’ll look into adding this information.
c) I’ll take a look. I didn’t change the unlearn process, so not sure why it would be failing this check now.
d) Depends on your skill and which Khri you’re trying to start, as before. Most of the Khri got easier to start from standing, but not all of them.
Sorry this is languishing so long. I wasn’t expecting how long it took me to catch up on stuff after getting back from vacation.
Javac
That one guy
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b) Perhaps not. I’ll look into adding this information.
c) I’ll take a look. I didn’t change the unlearn process, so not sure why it would be failing this check now.
d) Depends on your skill and which Khri you’re trying to start, as before. Most of the Khri got easier to start from standing, but not all of them.
Sorry this is languishing so long. I wasn’t expecting how long it took me to catch up on stuff after getting back from vacation.
Javac
That one guy
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ILLIENA
Re: New Khri in Test
07/16/2018 12:04 PM CDT
> d) Depends on your skill and which Khri you’re trying to start, as before. Most of the Khri got easier to start from standing, but not all of them.
I can start Dampen from standing despite having 0 ranks of Warding. In fact, in Test, I can start every khri of tiers 1-3 from standing, and I can't start tier 4 khri at all. There's not a single khri I must sit to start.
Inner Magic: 71
Augmentation: 71
Debilitation: 39
Utility: 64
Warding: 0
I can start Dampen from standing despite having 0 ranks of Warding. In fact, in Test, I can start every khri of tiers 1-3 from standing, and I can't start tier 4 khri at all. There's not a single khri I must sit to start.
Inner Magic: 71
Augmentation: 71
Debilitation: 39
Utility: 64
Warding: 0
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
07/17/2018 09:00 AM CDT
Are you using DELAY? IIRC, DELAY is a large bonus. Sitting still helps you get more potency/duration out of a Khri, until you cap it from standing, so I’m not all that troubled that you can start them without sitting relatively early.
Javac
That one guy
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Javac
That one guy
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ILLIENA
Re: New Khri in Test
07/17/2018 03:04 PM CDT
> Are you using DELAY?
Nope.
I don't think it's a huge problem, but the fact that I can start Serenity (tier 3, Warding) from standing with 0 Warding, where in Prime I have to sit to start Strike (tier 2, Augmentation) is a definite change to how something is being calculated. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a symptom of a bug.
Nope.
I don't think it's a huge problem, but the fact that I can start Serenity (tier 3, Warding) from standing with 0 Warding, where in Prime I have to sit to start Strike (tier 2, Augmentation) is a definite change to how something is being calculated. Just wanted to make sure it wasn't a symptom of a bug.
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
07/18/2018 11:40 AM CDT
It’s not a change in the calculation, it’s a change in the difficulty. Almost all Khri have a lower initial difficulty now. But, I’ll have to look again to double check if you should be starting Tier 3s with those kinds of ranks. They should correspond to Intermediate spells, with a difficulty range of 80-800 ranks. So I’m a little surprised you’re starting it with 70s in IM, and 0 Warding, and not using DELAY.
Javac
That one guy
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Javac
That one guy
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DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
07/22/2018 11:56 AM CDT
>I can start Dampen from standing despite having 0 ranks of Warding. In fact, in Test, I can start every khri of tiers 1-3 from standing, and I can't start tier 4 khri at all.
Dampen is Tier 2, which lines up with Magic Basic spells, i.e. 10-600 ranks. So your IM is pulling up your Warding enough to start without standing. I gave myself 71 ranks in everything and couldn't start Plunder standing, which is Tier 3, 80-800 ranks.
I've fixed the issue with Terrify teaching against everything.
I could not reproduce Evanescence dropping after one second. Can someone provide more details about when it is falling immediately?
You can no longer forget prereqs for Khri you know.
I think that addresses all the bugs I've heard about, but please let me know if there are more that I missed.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Dampen is Tier 2, which lines up with Magic Basic spells, i.e. 10-600 ranks. So your IM is pulling up your Warding enough to start without standing. I gave myself 71 ranks in everything and couldn't start Plunder standing, which is Tier 3, 80-800 ranks.
I've fixed the issue with Terrify teaching against everything.
I could not reproduce Evanescence dropping after one second. Can someone provide more details about when it is falling immediately?
You can no longer forget prereqs for Khri you know.
I think that addresses all the bugs I've heard about, but please let me know if there are more that I missed.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
ZEYPHAN
Re: New Khri in Test
07/22/2018 02:18 PM CDT
Fright: Effects remain for full duration if you end it prematurely via KHRI STOP or concentration loss.
Shadowstep: Does not seem to be giving 0 RT sneak in town.
Credence/Guile: Asking a guild leader about either of these returns the same exact speech.
Insight: Requires Sight (Potence) but is listed as Finesse. Not sure if this is actually a bug but it's the only khri with in a different tree from it's pre-req.
Unlearn: When I ask about unlearn a second time to confirm I get no messaging returned and do not unlearn the khri. I thought Test had unlimited unlearns. If not then I may still be under the 30 day limit from the last time I was playing with it. Either way there should be some sort of messaging.
~Engineering Master Ascot Ryuzzaki, Tinkerer of Elanthia
Shadowstep: Does not seem to be giving 0 RT sneak in town.
Credence/Guile: Asking a guild leader about either of these returns the same exact speech.
Insight: Requires Sight (Potence) but is listed as Finesse. Not sure if this is actually a bug but it's the only khri with in a different tree from it's pre-req.
Unlearn: When I ask about unlearn a second time to confirm I get no messaging returned and do not unlearn the khri. I thought Test had unlimited unlearns. If not then I may still be under the 30 day limit from the last time I was playing with it. Either way there should be some sort of messaging.
~Engineering Master Ascot Ryuzzaki, Tinkerer of Elanthia
THIRESDR
Re: New Khri in Test
07/22/2018 02:52 PM CDT
Still no chance of putting a blank line between the trees to make it easier to read?
[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
Javac exclaims, "You didn't see me!"
[Naohhi] We'll look into it, but for now, you're making giant errors pop up all over the place on this side. :p
[Naohhi] That means.. please stop.
You have some tiny scratches to the wings.
Javac exclaims, "You didn't see me!"
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
07/22/2018 07:49 PM CDT
I'll take a look at these.
>Unlearn
Test should let you unlearn as many as you want. What Khri did you have at the time, and what Khri were you trying to forget?
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
>Unlearn
Test should let you unlearn as many as you want. What Khri did you have at the time, and what Khri were you trying to forget?
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
07/22/2018 08:29 PM CDT
>Fright: Effects remain for full duration if you end it prematurely via KHRI STOP or concentration loss.
>Shadowstep: Does not seem to be giving 0 RT sneak in town.
>Credence/Guile: Asking a guild leader about either of these returns the same exact speech.
>Insight: Requires Sight (Potence) but is listed as Finesse. Not sure if this is actually a bug but it's the only khri with in a different tree from it's pre-req.
>Still no chance of putting a blank line between the trees to make it easier to read?
All of these are fixed and should be in Test.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
>Shadowstep: Does not seem to be giving 0 RT sneak in town.
>Credence/Guile: Asking a guild leader about either of these returns the same exact speech.
>Insight: Requires Sight (Potence) but is listed as Finesse. Not sure if this is actually a bug but it's the only khri with in a different tree from it's pre-req.
>Still no chance of putting a blank line between the trees to make it easier to read?
All of these are fixed and should be in Test.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
ILLIENA
Re: New Khri in Test
07/22/2018 10:56 PM CDT
> I gave myself 71 ranks in everything and couldn't start Plunder standing, which is Tier 3, 80-800 ranks.
I had forgotten that bonus plays a role. I can start Plunder standing with 71 ranks when I'm in an urban room, but not in the wilderness.
I had forgotten that bonus plays a role. I can start Plunder standing with 71 ranks when I'm in an urban room, but not in the wilderness.
ZEYPHAN
Re: New Khri in Test
07/23/2018 05:48 PM CDT
Still getting roundtime for sneaking in town with Shadowstep up.
I still can't unlearn khri that I should be able to unlearn and get no messaging when I try to confirm.
Trying to unlearn Hasten, Darken, or Focus gives a message saying they're too fundamental to unlearn which I think is intended.
The messaging for trying to unlearn a khri that is a pre-req for another khri seems backwards and is missing capitalization on the second sentence:
>ask kalag about int unlearn
>Kalag the Sly frowns at you before explaining, "There are other abilities you know which would be unusable without Fright. intimidate at least would need to be unlearned first."
The first sentence makes it sound like I'm trying to unlearn Fright instead of Intimidate.
~Engineering Master Ascot Ryuzzaki, Tinkerer of Elanthia
I still can't unlearn khri that I should be able to unlearn and get no messaging when I try to confirm.
Trying to unlearn Hasten, Darken, or Focus gives a message saying they're too fundamental to unlearn which I think is intended.
The messaging for trying to unlearn a khri that is a pre-req for another khri seems backwards and is missing capitalization on the second sentence:
>ask kalag about int unlearn
>Kalag the Sly frowns at you before explaining, "There are other abilities you know which would be unusable without Fright. intimidate at least would need to be unlearned first."
The first sentence makes it sound like I'm trying to unlearn Fright instead of Intimidate.
~Engineering Master Ascot Ryuzzaki, Tinkerer of Elanthia
DR-JAVAC
Re: New Khri in Test
07/24/2018 08:52 AM CDT
>Still getting roundtime for sneaking in town with Shadowstep up.
Should be fixed in Test.
>I still can't unlearn khri that I should be able to unlearn and get no messaging when I try to confirm.
I have an idea about this, but I’ll need to look closer once I’m home from my other job.
>The messaging for trying to unlearn a khri that is a pre-req for another khri seems backwards and is missing capitalization on the second sentence:
I’ll take a look at this as well. Thanks for pointing it out.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
Should be fixed in Test.
>I still can't unlearn khri that I should be able to unlearn and get no messaging when I try to confirm.
I have an idea about this, but I’ll need to look closer once I’m home from my other job.
>The messaging for trying to unlearn a khri that is a pre-req for another khri seems backwards and is missing capitalization on the second sentence:
I’ll take a look at this as well. Thanks for pointing it out.
Javac
That one guy
If you have questions or comments in regard to this post please email me at DR-JAVAC@play.net.
