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So we're losing a guild-only ability, that dare I say is amazing in theory, and even in implementation...except there are no stunning poisons, and it only hits once after a hefty application time...but now it's coming out of the shadows and personally, I feel like the guild's losing a massive perk. What's being done in implementation of the new poison system, and what's the thieve's guild's IG role in the transition?
KKESTLRE
GRIM45
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 07:01 AM CDT
>>So we're losing a guild-only ability, that dare I say is amazing in theory, and even in implementation...except there are no stunning poisons, and it only hits once after a hefty application time...but now it's coming out of the shadows and personally, I feel like the guild's losing a massive perk.
QQ. So did Barbs. So did Paladins. So did Moon Mages. So did Rangers. (Sensing a pattern here?)
>>What's being done in implementation of the new poison system,
TBD.
>>what's the thieve's guild's IG role in the transition?
The same as all of the above in their respective crafts. http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Crafting#Skills.2C_Disciplines_and_Techniques (Second table)
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
QQ. So did Barbs. So did Paladins. So did Moon Mages. So did Rangers. (Sensing a pattern here?)
>>What's being done in implementation of the new poison system,
TBD.
>>what's the thieve's guild's IG role in the transition?
The same as all of the above in their respective crafts. http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Crafting#Skills.2C_Disciplines_and_Techniques (Second table)
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 07:28 AM CDT
Poison hasn't ever been a 'huge perk' as far as I'm aware. Any time I've asked any thief, the answer has always been 'not worth making it'.
Look at it this way: guild specific abilities are too narrow in scope and execution. They don't use a standard metric, which means someone has to spend a vast amount of time learning the system, before they can modify it. Crafting creates a more standard system, and since its open to all guilds, it should in theory be more likely to get developed, since it doesn't require a single guild to have a specific high level GM who has nothing game critical on his or her plate.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
Look at it this way: guild specific abilities are too narrow in scope and execution. They don't use a standard metric, which means someone has to spend a vast amount of time learning the system, before they can modify it. Crafting creates a more standard system, and since its open to all guilds, it should in theory be more likely to get developed, since it doesn't require a single guild to have a specific high level GM who has nothing game critical on his or her plate.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
BENNETTJ13
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 09:49 AM CDT
Poison USED to be a huge perk. I used to be able to kill anything I could hit in one pulse. Then they changed it. Then I learned again. Then they changed it again. Now I don't give a crap. Let everyone see how useless it is. As soon as you can make decent juice, it just gets tweaked for being OP because everyone QQ's.
I do not care for the direction that dr is taking. Which is sad since I only just recently came back. All the guilds are just becoming more and more similar. Want to make weapons? Go ahead! Make armor? Poison? Sure! Barbs, Bards and Thieves using magic now? Sure! Sure! We'll just call it something else! Wink wink. It just seems like we are all quickly becoming one big very bastardized guild with a few select things to differentiate between the actual "guilds". At least I've still got Snipe, err... Slip, err... Backstab? But hell since its been tweaked, it's just as powerful as when I am ambushing. I've got my thief combat moves... But those penalize learning, so there's no point in using them in combat, only in PvP. Woot / grumpy pants rant
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
I do not care for the direction that dr is taking. Which is sad since I only just recently came back. All the guilds are just becoming more and more similar. Want to make weapons? Go ahead! Make armor? Poison? Sure! Barbs, Bards and Thieves using magic now? Sure! Sure! We'll just call it something else! Wink wink. It just seems like we are all quickly becoming one big very bastardized guild with a few select things to differentiate between the actual "guilds". At least I've still got Snipe, err... Slip, err... Backstab? But hell since its been tweaked, it's just as powerful as when I am ambushing. I've got my thief combat moves... But those penalize learning, so there's no point in using them in combat, only in PvP. Woot / grumpy pants rant
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
GRIM45
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 11:33 AM CDT
>>I do not care for the direction that dr is taking
Then kindly leave and spare us the rest of your woe is me the game now sucks attitude.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Then kindly leave and spare us the rest of your woe is me the game now sucks attitude.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
DYERA7
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 01:30 PM CDT
I've got to say that I find something very bland about having a guild full of people that all do the same thing. I keep hearing people say that guilds are becoming more like each other, but I really think this is an opportunity to make a choice about what you want your character to be beyond only which guild they choose.
YAMCER
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 01:47 PM CDT
The possibility for thieves and poisons would be guild only templates and guild only crafting areas. Which I see as two significant perks.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
GAMERGIRL151
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 04:22 PM CDT
Why not like naphtha, make some theif only abilities that utilize poison. Just because other people can make it doesn't mean theives can't have nice things.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
DYERA7
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 04:45 PM CDT
>Why not like naphtha, make some theif only abilities that utilize poison.
That gave me an idea: what about poison spitting? Either slip some poison in your mouth ahead of time or suck poison out of your wounds and spit it back at your opponent. That seems thief-like. Also, hilarious. Thbtbtbt!
That gave me an idea: what about poison spitting? Either slip some poison in your mouth ahead of time or suck poison out of your wounds and spit it back at your opponent. That seems thief-like. Also, hilarious. Thbtbtbt!
BENNETTJ13
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 05:14 PM CDT
I'm sorry, you must be new here. That doesn't work with me. Now that I'm back you'll have to get used to it or ignore me, I care not which. These are my boards.
Never did I say the game sucks. I simply stated my opinion in the hopes it would stir new discussion for thief abilities, (or even re-hashed old ones) which it has.
I pay an exorbitant amount of money for this text based game and have the right to my opinion, and after investing as many years into the guild, it's members, and yes it's very development (not as a gm, but through countless suggestions/events) as I have I get quite passionate about seeing where the future of my guild goes. Hopefully you can at least understand that.
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
Never did I say the game sucks. I simply stated my opinion in the hopes it would stir new discussion for thief abilities, (or even re-hashed old ones) which it has.
I pay an exorbitant amount of money for this text based game and have the right to my opinion, and after investing as many years into the guild, it's members, and yes it's very development (not as a gm, but through countless suggestions/events) as I have I get quite passionate about seeing where the future of my guild goes. Hopefully you can at least understand that.
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
NINEVAH1
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 05:15 PM CDT
>>I've got to say that I find something very bland about having a guild full of people that all do the same thing. I keep hearing people say that guilds are becoming more like each other, but I really think this is an opportunity to make a choice about what you want your character to be beyond only which guild they choose.
This.
I love my thief but could care less about making poison or lockpicks beyond what I needed for myself (never even bothered with poison). I've always wanted to make weapons, but hated playing a barbarian and never had the motivation to try and learn the old forging system (or poison at that), and what would of even been the point if I had tried. The crafting systems were so inclusive to the guild it was tailored to that anything another guild made was junk.
Want to make perfect leathers? Play a ranger. Want the best shields? Play a paladin. Want to be the best at decorating stuff? Play a trader (lol).
DR has never been a game that pigeon-holed you into a certain role except for when it came to crafting. Now they are finally opening up all crafts to everyone, and it allows you to make your character be whatever you want them to be. Now my thief is a great forger of weapons that can match anybody else in the game if I put forth the effort to get the ranks, and no longer feel cheated because I wasn't there to get a special mark or know how to cheat the system to get the best mix. Opening up everything to all guilds does not make them the same, it just gives you more options to make your character unique.
This.
I love my thief but could care less about making poison or lockpicks beyond what I needed for myself (never even bothered with poison). I've always wanted to make weapons, but hated playing a barbarian and never had the motivation to try and learn the old forging system (or poison at that), and what would of even been the point if I had tried. The crafting systems were so inclusive to the guild it was tailored to that anything another guild made was junk.
Want to make perfect leathers? Play a ranger. Want the best shields? Play a paladin. Want to be the best at decorating stuff? Play a trader (lol).
DR has never been a game that pigeon-holed you into a certain role except for when it came to crafting. Now they are finally opening up all crafts to everyone, and it allows you to make your character be whatever you want them to be. Now my thief is a great forger of weapons that can match anybody else in the game if I put forth the effort to get the ranks, and no longer feel cheated because I wasn't there to get a special mark or know how to cheat the system to get the best mix. Opening up everything to all guilds does not make them the same, it just gives you more options to make your character unique.
GRIM45
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 05:22 PM CDT
>>These are my boards.
Rofl.
>>I simply stated my opinion
Not even close.
>>have the right to my opinion
Never did I say you couldn't have your opinion. Please go back and actually read what I said.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Rofl.
>>I simply stated my opinion
Not even close.
>>have the right to my opinion
Never did I say you couldn't have your opinion. Please go back and actually read what I said.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
KHAM
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/22/2013 11:49 PM CDT
I feel the open concept of teaching poison to the public at a Craft Society doesn't really fit the RP of poison?
Like wouldn't the local Ruler or Guards condone something like that.
Maybe for the more potent/destructive poisons, they should have a Society that is away from town and only allow careered poison alchemists in.
Like wouldn't the local Ruler or Guards condone something like that.
Maybe for the more potent/destructive poisons, they should have a Society that is away from town and only allow careered poison alchemists in.
BENNETTJ13
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 05:22 AM CDT
I'm curious if those of us who know how to use poison currently will forget, or if that is something we will retain as our guilded perk. Anyone had always been able to "make" it if you had the skill. But application has always been thief only, and that's guild taught. I can see them having their versions of stuff and that's fine, but it shouldn't be able to reach the potency of thief poison. That's my .02. As long as SOMETHING stays thief only about it even if its just the application of it, that would be better than nothing. As far as I know there was no speech for barbs or paladins that at X circle you went in and the GL said "hey dude, we are the best at making stuff, so here's how we do it". I mean, that does happen as a thief.
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
LOCUTIS1
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 09:26 AM CDT
> It just seems like we are all quickly becoming one big very bastardized guild with a few select things to differentiate between the actual "guilds".
Just a shortsighted view in my opinion, One thing about DR for me is the lore and history, the story, is what drives things for me, the little things we do are just fancy colors to disguise the numbers we chase. I think great, why from a RP point of view couldn't someone grab some items and work out how to add them together and make up a poison.
The fact that poisons were a thief only ability, bring it into your RP and go out and conflict with any non thieves making it. There is no one saying you cant do that. Poisons were still started by us, and your character can be angry that its been leaked to the outside world.
>Why not like naphtha, make some theif only abilities that utilize poison. Just because other people can make it doesn't mean theives can't have nice things.
This! ^ and poison + slash im looking forward to, if poisons will be better again.
Also im pretty happy with our ambushes ATM, i dont want to be greedy and asking for more while we are still waiting on our rewrite, but, drying poisons into a powder and useing it with ambush sight.....i like that idea.
>That gave me an idea: what about poison spitting? Either slip some poison in your mouth ahead of time or suck poison out of your wounds and spit it back at your opponent. That seems thief-like. Also, hilarious. Thbtbtbt!
With a slight movement over your hand you poor a portion of poison into your mouth. turning to face your oponent, you snort in through you nose and with a almighty grunt you hock a giant lugey that splatters into the face. With shouts of "careful the mans a digusting freak" the crowds back away to give you a wide berth.
NINEVAH1
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 10:19 AM CDT
>> As long as SOMETHING stays thief only about it even if its just the application of it, that would be better than nothing.
I wouldn't hold your breath on something like this. They are not going to gimp a whole crafting discipline by making only one guild able to apply what can be made by anyone. What is more likely to happen is something like what has been suggested by Kodius for lockpicks. There will be Thief only templates that are better/more useful than what other guilds can make, but any guild will be able to make and use a lockpick if they so desire. We might see a Thief only poison recipe, or maybe a Thief only way to use the poison (like an ambush). You will not see the whole poison discipline have to go through a thief though.
I wouldn't hold your breath on something like this. They are not going to gimp a whole crafting discipline by making only one guild able to apply what can be made by anyone. What is more likely to happen is something like what has been suggested by Kodius for lockpicks. There will be Thief only templates that are better/more useful than what other guilds can make, but any guild will be able to make and use a lockpick if they so desire. We might see a Thief only poison recipe, or maybe a Thief only way to use the poison (like an ambush). You will not see the whole poison discipline have to go through a thief though.
GRIM45
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 10:42 AM CDT
>>I'm curious if those of us who know how to use poison currently will forget, or if that is something we will retain as our guilded perk.
As mentioned earlier, try reading the thread. It's already been posted what will happen.
The same as all of the other guild perks in old crating:
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Crafting#Skills.2C_Disciplines_and_Techniques (Second table)
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
As mentioned earlier, try reading the thread. It's already been posted what will happen.
The same as all of the other guild perks in old crating:
http://elanthipedia.org/w/index.php/Crafting#Skills.2C_Disciplines_and_Techniques (Second table)
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
CLERIXHAX
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 11:39 AM CDT
>I'm curious if those of us who know how to use poison currently will forget, or if that is something we will retain as our guilded perk. Anyone had always been able to "make" it if you had the skill. But application has always been thief only, and that's guild taught. I can see them having their versions of stuff and that's fine, but it shouldn't be able to reach the potency of thief poison. That's my .02. As long as SOMETHING stays thief only about it even if its just the application of it, that would be better than nothing. As far as I know there was no speech for barbs or paladins that at X circle you went in and the GL said "hey dude, we are the best at making stuff, so here's how we do it". I mean, that does happen as a thief.
It doesn't make sense for certain guilds to be restricted with applying poison, making less potent poison or anything along those lines. Poison is going to be an alchemy skill, anyone can learn to be an alchemist, anyone can apply poison to a weapon. It's not rocket science, nor should it be some BS about a Thief having a steadier hand so they're able to somehow prevent spasms every time they need to apply poison to a blade. There doesn't need to be some perk for the guild, it's not guild related. It's Alchemy related.
It doesn't make sense for certain guilds to be restricted with applying poison, making less potent poison or anything along those lines. Poison is going to be an alchemy skill, anyone can learn to be an alchemist, anyone can apply poison to a weapon. It's not rocket science, nor should it be some BS about a Thief having a steadier hand so they're able to somehow prevent spasms every time they need to apply poison to a blade. There doesn't need to be some perk for the guild, it's not guild related. It's Alchemy related.
KHIOL
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 12:08 PM CDT
> I can see them having their versions of stuff and that's fine, but it shouldn't be able to reach the potency of thief poison.
Heh, On that kinda tangent since necromancer's weren't around when that was developed from a lore standpoint they would be a notch over thieves(perk feats show it even) in the poison craft all the biological studies would enable them to make the most superior poisons based on their study.
You see how everyone could make a case that they should recieve something special from some perticular craft? A khri or something to buff alchemy would be the best option but making guild-only craft recepies just doesn't seem like a good direction to go. Careered poison discipline only maybe...
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
Heh, On that kinda tangent since necromancer's weren't around when that was developed from a lore standpoint they would be a notch over thieves(perk feats show it even) in the poison craft all the biological studies would enable them to make the most superior poisons based on their study.
You see how everyone could make a case that they should recieve something special from some perticular craft? A khri or something to buff alchemy would be the best option but making guild-only craft recepies just doesn't seem like a good direction to go. Careered poison discipline only maybe...
"Burn him! Burn him!" You hear the cries echo around you as everyone in the vicinity suddenly moves away, giving you a wide berth! It goes without saying you'll be wanted for forbidden practices in The Rakash Village.
BENNETTJ13
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 12:31 PM CDT
While I see all your sides to the argument, an IC precedent has been set. We have had to reach a certain circle for years, meet with our guild leader, and learn to poison. I just plain disagree with it. If a GM wants to weigh in and say "Hey, there will be some kind of an event in regards to poison" sure, but some of us have a deep character history with that guild leader for just that reason. I've spoken with her while she was played by a gm and we were causing trouble poisoning people.
I guess it stands to reason that like most things Guild related anymore I'm just a relic of the past and I should just run around like this new generation of thief not caring.
It is what it is. I just hope it's handled better than a "here today, gone tomorrow" thing.
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
I guess it stands to reason that like most things Guild related anymore I'm just a relic of the past and I should just run around like this new generation of thief not caring.
It is what it is. I just hope it's handled better than a "here today, gone tomorrow" thing.
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
ROBERTDH
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 12:58 PM CDT
>It is what it is. I just hope it's handled better than a "here today, gone tomorrow" thing.
You could start doing something about this right now. If poison is a huge part of your in-game roleplay, keep it that way. The game isn't going to stand still for any of us, and if it did we'd have nothing to talk about but each other and everyone knows how well that goes down.
Maybe you've heard rumors of thieves seen having shadowed conversations with alchemists in respectable taverns. Start arguing for these traitors to be thugged. Make up whatever narrative you'd like an run with it. Maybe someone will come up with counter arguments - the alchemists have re-discovered the secrets of poison on their own? These new-forming craft-guilds are just too large and too organized for thieves to 'regulate' anymore?
Or maybe you don't have any answers, and the guild leaders are being infuriatingly silent about it. Be upset and confused, take your negative emotions, and then go entertain other people in-game with them.
You could start doing something about this right now. If poison is a huge part of your in-game roleplay, keep it that way. The game isn't going to stand still for any of us, and if it did we'd have nothing to talk about but each other and everyone knows how well that goes down.
Maybe you've heard rumors of thieves seen having shadowed conversations with alchemists in respectable taverns. Start arguing for these traitors to be thugged. Make up whatever narrative you'd like an run with it. Maybe someone will come up with counter arguments - the alchemists have re-discovered the secrets of poison on their own? These new-forming craft-guilds are just too large and too organized for thieves to 'regulate' anymore?
Or maybe you don't have any answers, and the guild leaders are being infuriatingly silent about it. Be upset and confused, take your negative emotions, and then go entertain other people in-game with them.
BENNETTJ13
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 01:20 PM CDT
I do not need help role playing it out, but thank you anyways. All I was saying is I hope that there is an IC justification behind it and not just some "poof, forget you knew that" kind of thing.
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 05:03 PM CDT
>an IC precedent has been set.
IC justification is not 'I win' for all arguments.
In fact, it rarely factors in to mechanics issues and discussions, which is what crafting, alchemy, poisons, are.
Will it be RP'ed out in some fashion? Hopefully.
Will thieves have some magic 'better than you' stanglehold on the system? Hopefully not. Otherwise we're going to start seeing every guild invade and dismantle the crafting systems, and we're going to be right back to 'only way to do X is to be Y guild'.
Again, leaves plenty of room for guild specific poisons, and thieves will probably retain flush (can't remember the proper name offhand, sorry) as a guild perk.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
IC justification is not 'I win' for all arguments.
In fact, it rarely factors in to mechanics issues and discussions, which is what crafting, alchemy, poisons, are.
Will it be RP'ed out in some fashion? Hopefully.
Will thieves have some magic 'better than you' stanglehold on the system? Hopefully not. Otherwise we're going to start seeing every guild invade and dismantle the crafting systems, and we're going to be right back to 'only way to do X is to be Y guild'.
Again, leaves plenty of room for guild specific poisons, and thieves will probably retain flush (can't remember the proper name offhand, sorry) as a guild perk.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
SHADOW7988
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 06:01 PM CDT
Did I miss something?
I thought everyone could make poisons, we just have a lot of help along the way so we can know what the in-game secret is to make poisons?
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
I thought everyone could make poisons, we just have a lot of help along the way so we can know what the in-game secret is to make poisons?
---
"I think anything that forces you to do something no sane adventurer would do just in order to train is ridiculous."
DR-SOCHARIS
---
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.
NINEVAH1
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 06:59 PM CDT
Only thieves can apply poison to weapons though. That's where the guild bottleneck comes into effect for poison.
Every guild so far (barbs, paladins, rangers) have lost their stranglehold on their respective craft. Every guild is given 3 techs in their respective craft to help make up for this, and other perks have been mentioned as suggestions to throw the guilds a bone. Elec you might as well get used to the fact that everyone will be able to make and use poison (and lockpicks), and will be able to do it as good or even better than thieves if they put the effort in. That's just how it is going to be with crafting, and most of the rest of the game is in agreement with this.
I would love to see some RP/events surrounding the release of new poison, ushering out the old system, but not a single new system has had anything with it so I don't expect much from poison either.
Every guild so far (barbs, paladins, rangers) have lost their stranglehold on their respective craft. Every guild is given 3 techs in their respective craft to help make up for this, and other perks have been mentioned as suggestions to throw the guilds a bone. Elec you might as well get used to the fact that everyone will be able to make and use poison (and lockpicks), and will be able to do it as good or even better than thieves if they put the effort in. That's just how it is going to be with crafting, and most of the rest of the game is in agreement with this.
I would love to see some RP/events surrounding the release of new poison, ushering out the old system, but not a single new system has had anything with it so I don't expect much from poison either.
YAMCER
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 08:55 PM CDT
I'd like to see the stoppered vials as a thief only template. That would be fun.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 10:33 PM CDT
> I'd like to see the stoppered vials as a thief only template. That would be fun.
Are the stoppered vials you're talking about just the generic name for dirt containers? Or is there something awesome I don't know about?
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
Are the stoppered vials you're talking about just the generic name for dirt containers? Or is there something awesome I don't know about?
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
GRIM45
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 10:36 PM CDT
>>Are the stoppered vials you're talking about just the generic name for dirt containers? Or is there something awesome I don't know about?
Massively rare harvestable component from poison gas boxes.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
Massively rare harvestable component from poison gas boxes.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
KROONERMANREVENGE
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 10:57 PM CDT
>Massively rare harvestable component from poison gas boxes.
Oh, those. I've still not found or seen one. Did anyone ever decide if 3.0 broke them?
Also, thug powders would be an amazing thief specific crafting template.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
Oh, those. I've still not found or seen one. Did anyone ever decide if 3.0 broke them?
Also, thug powders would be an amazing thief specific crafting template.
I'm a badger, I be badgerin'
YAMCER
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/23/2013 10:59 PM CDT
The stoppered vials are area effect poison bombs. As of now, they only come from harvesting box traps.
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
Yamcer
"You know, while I understand the importance of seeing the (personal) validity in other's arguments, it's impossible for me to believe fully that others are correct. If their argument was correct, I'd change mine." - My GF
CLERIXHAX
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/24/2013 09:37 AM CDT
>While I see all your sides to the argument, an IC precedent has been set. We have had to reach a certain circle for years, meet with our guild leader, and learn to poison. I just plain disagree with it. If a GM wants to weigh in and say "Hey, there will be some kind of an event in regards to poison" sure, but some of us have a deep character history with that guild leader for just that reason. I've spoken with her while she was played by a gm and we were causing trouble poisoning people.
And you'll still be able to poison, your history isn't just disappearing. Be a little more mature than acting like its your ball and nobody else can play with it.
And you'll still be able to poison, your history isn't just disappearing. Be a little more mature than acting like its your ball and nobody else can play with it.
SCHULTZS3
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/24/2013 12:09 PM CDT
>You will not see the whole poison discipline have to go through a thief though.
Particularly given that Thieves are not the only ones with Poison bonus techs.
>Did anyone ever decide if 3.0 broke them?
I have gotten cubes with 3.0, so I PRESUME the stoppered vials still exist. I've only got like 2 though.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
Particularly given that Thieves are not the only ones with Poison bonus techs.
>Did anyone ever decide if 3.0 broke them?
I have gotten cubes with 3.0, so I PRESUME the stoppered vials still exist. I've only got like 2 though.
Kaeta Airtag
>>Actually an opinion cannot be changed or corrected. Nice try back of line.-VERATHOR
>>But it can be wrong.-Starlear
BENNETTJ13
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/25/2013 01:24 PM CDT
Thanks for totally missing the point. I have adjusted my RP accordingly with the advent of alchemy, regardless of that fact. We are taught poison by a guild leader. There is a spiel and everything. It's not just a "you now know how to poison". I do not know that any other guild has that with thier abilities. All I'm saying is that I hope there is some IC perspective added. Since EVERY thief over a certain circle that's talked to that GL has ha that talk. It's not about my ball. It's about continuity.
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
FLINT-TIPPED
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/25/2013 03:06 PM CDT
>It's about continuity.
The game has constantly evolved over the years. Virtually nothing stays the same. Not ooc mechanics, not ic game lore. Some changes are retconned and some just get changed. If they had an ic explanation for every single game change it would be impossible to keep track of them all.
It doesn't seem that tough to reconcile a change from thief monopoly on poison to a poisoning society ic.
Your guildleader taught you a few simple recipes for fairly ineffective single use poisons. Common sense suggests they aren't the only person in the entire world that knows the secret (since they teach it to all sorts of untrustworthy types) and that there are others who know more recipes and are interested in capitalizing on them.
Out of character a scaling system to create a wide range of poisons of different strengths and effects is a win for any would-be poisoners.
The game has constantly evolved over the years. Virtually nothing stays the same. Not ooc mechanics, not ic game lore. Some changes are retconned and some just get changed. If they had an ic explanation for every single game change it would be impossible to keep track of them all.
It doesn't seem that tough to reconcile a change from thief monopoly on poison to a poisoning society ic.
Your guildleader taught you a few simple recipes for fairly ineffective single use poisons. Common sense suggests they aren't the only person in the entire world that knows the secret (since they teach it to all sorts of untrustworthy types) and that there are others who know more recipes and are interested in capitalizing on them.
Out of character a scaling system to create a wide range of poisons of different strengths and effects is a win for any would-be poisoners.
ROBERTDH
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/25/2013 05:26 PM CDT
>We are taught poison by a guild leader. There is a spiel and everything. It's not just a "you now know how to poison". I do not know that any other guild has that with their abilities.
Now I'm just... not sure if you're trolling or you've only ever played thieves? Or are you just referring to crafting skills? I think the only major in-game tie in for crafting was Moon Mage enchanting, with its quest. Which ironically involves a thief NPC.
But in regards to other abilities, guildleader-gives-you-a-spiel is generally how it works for everyone.
IC explanations for changes are very rare, however. WM familiars have changed repeatedly with no IC comment, and there is now a small stack of utterly inaccurate books about them piling up around the game, some of which documented very significant in-game events that coincided with some system releases.
Have thieves just been hit with fewer retcons than everyone else? In the scheme of things, this one is better than most in that it's even has a plausible explanation. Most of the time it's simply impossible to reconcile the new reality with how the game used to work. It's a professional hazard of magic-primes in particular.
Now I'm just... not sure if you're trolling or you've only ever played thieves? Or are you just referring to crafting skills? I think the only major in-game tie in for crafting was Moon Mage enchanting, with its quest. Which ironically involves a thief NPC.
But in regards to other abilities, guildleader-gives-you-a-spiel is generally how it works for everyone.
IC explanations for changes are very rare, however. WM familiars have changed repeatedly with no IC comment, and there is now a small stack of utterly inaccurate books about them piling up around the game, some of which documented very significant in-game events that coincided with some system releases.
Have thieves just been hit with fewer retcons than everyone else? In the scheme of things, this one is better than most in that it's even has a plausible explanation. Most of the time it's simply impossible to reconcile the new reality with how the game used to work. It's a professional hazard of magic-primes in particular.
BENNETTJ13
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/26/2013 01:40 AM CDT
I'm not trolling at all. I'm talking about crafting. I've never played a pallie or barb who forged. Neither of my paladins did anything in the forge. As far as I always knew, it was something they could just "do". That's what I was talking about.
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
Beast Elec Drister
"You know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with until you understand who's in ruttin' command here."
―Jayne Cobb
MM1-USN 1999-present
ROBERTDH
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/26/2013 02:06 AM CDT
Neither forging nor tanning were the kind of exclusive that Enchanting or Poison and Lockpicks were, but it's a fair statement if we're just thinking about crafting.
...now that I think about it I think there was a redname post during all the barbarians-lose-forging-bonus brouhaha addressing the lack of any rp event to explain why hundreds of barbarians suddenly couldn't compare to a Trader.
I'll agree it would be nice to see some RP come about to reconcile the retcon. I've found, however, that I've had more fun playing DR since I gave up hoping for any!
I really need to play my thief more.
...now that I think about it I think there was a redname post during all the barbarians-lose-forging-bonus brouhaha addressing the lack of any rp event to explain why hundreds of barbarians suddenly couldn't compare to a Trader.
I'll agree it would be nice to see some RP come about to reconcile the retcon. I've found, however, that I've had more fun playing DR since I gave up hoping for any!
I really need to play my thief more.
GRANTJ47
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/26/2013 09:30 PM CDT
>>We are taught poison by a guild leader.
Correction, you were taught about ONE poison by the guild leader. How about we grandfather that one in for thieves only and we keep the rest for everyone else. That be IC enough for you?
Abison/Rystien
Correction, you were taught about ONE poison by the guild leader. How about we grandfather that one in for thieves only and we keep the rest for everyone else. That be IC enough for you?
Abison/Rystien
OSUS
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/27/2013 12:10 AM CDT
No, we were taught the PROCESS of making poison by one guild leader, something that unless its told to you by a thief or OOC means, isn't something a non-thief can magically just stumble upon. I don't care either way how this goes down because its being homogenized into BlandRealms (tm) like every other guilds unique guild abilities, but at least lets keep the facts straight.
-O
NINEVAH1
Re: So what's going to happen with poison?
08/27/2013 05:37 AM CDT
There are other guilds that had quests/conversations for something to do with crafting. Moon mage enchantment quest has been mentioned, and Rangers didn't just know how to make hunter's bow. It is something they had to learn like we do for poison. Also while Barbs and Paladins didn't need anything special to forge, a lot of them had to go through a RP event to get stamps related to their craft. So really Thieves are not alone in this, and while I'd always love to see more events in DR, I don't expect any surrounding crafting since there has been zero events yet.
