So its in boar clan? Are there going to be portals, or do I need to start moving there?

Asterid

Also, please remember to watch the conflicts ~Sidatura

Thank you very much for the meeting! I hope your plans to have two or so a year will continue - partly because I enjoy seeing some of the folks that I don't cross paths with for years outside of meetings!

I tend to be a quiet one at meetings and just think as I hear what everyone has to say, so here's what I would have discussed if I weren't such a shy and delicate flower. ;)

If the magic/spells/etc. get changed up via spells being split for more specific usage, can we look at a reworking of the magic spellbooks? I know higher tiered spells will need pre-reqs, but maybe have more choices. I hate being locked into spells I'll never use to get the one I want. Example: Wolf Scent is split into two spells, either one can be a pre-req for the next tier in that spell tree. Anyway, just food for thought if our spells continue to have much reworking. Also, slight plea for spell wipe if massive spell splittings and changes end up coming down the pipes. I know we have that thingie to forget a spell every so often, but when several big changes happen... anyway, we'll see what ranger magic looks like when the dust settles.

Also, SCOUTING. Just wanted to kick it out there as something that I hope is getting some attention in the future. It's a skill that's had lots of promises from GMs that never panned out and just seems to be "something to train" for the most part. One of the past promises (and, yes, I know all past bets were off and it's a new day with Z here!) was the ability to track someone down without having seen them first or having to send a wolf, etc. after them. Is this still on the table or a possibility? I understand with skinning, spells and everything else this may not even be on the horizon.

Again, thanks for the meeting. Always good to know roughly where things stand, whether you like the standing or not. I appreciate the little and big things you all are doing for our guild.

~ Waveshell

What was Trev's method?


GameMaster Audacia

---

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

I wanted to echo thanks for the meeting. You guys are great on the boards, but the quick turn around leads to a different set of questions.

I apologize again for my onslaught. I was trying to keep thing prepped and it got a little out of hand.

I've got a log of the meeting that I'll take the time to edit if anyone is interested, otherwise I'll just store it way.

I really am interested in a Ranger meeting to discuss the how-to's and what-if's for Magic. I've never played a magic primary guild so it's not second nature. Surely I'm not the only one in the boat.. er.. forest. I offer to help as well, though other than being a target, I'm not sure what I can bring to the table!

Lightly Edited...

>look
[Ranger Guild, Cavern of Gathering]
Petrified peregan trees stand at even intervals down the length of the massive cavern, arching upward as if seeking the sky. Hung with small lamps and thousands of brass leaves, their branches twine overhead and create a forest bower deep in the earth. The metallic foliage seems to flutter in the breeze as the shifting lamplight dances over it and slight vibrations cause them to clink together musically. You also see an EXIT portal, a speaker's list and a wide doorway.
Also here: Wolf Handler Dridell, Wayfarer Repoc, Scout Valeres, Feral Kiterina, Web Weaver Cordin, Malachias who is sitting, Wolf Friend Silqui, Flower Collector Sunsea, Mountain Scout Dextyr, Grand Master Ranger Purnay, Regadlid, Master Ranger Dulan, Katrinal, Ranger Celturian who is sitting, Cerran, Hunter Hanryu, Smoke Linessa, Archaic Warrior Falkonis, Samarah, Solitary Hunter Grisleaf, Geezer Gahlron, Scavenger Tygor, Shadow Tracker Mygrain, Feral Cerval, Ascher, Raynzong who is sitting, Forester Aroamer, Ranger Gauth, Leaf Chaser Shakbatina, Wild Bryiana, Gardener Argovel who is sitting, Shark Hunter Darkskye, Shendorian, Wind Seer Xerina, Ranger Rudius, Fate Reaver Serchah, Sniper Rivenmist, Andrascha, Striker Morkim who is surrounded by a shimmering shield, GameMaster Zeyurn, Forest Shadow Teamac, Excetera, Thug Martyka, Court Assistant Celitha, GameMaster Audacia, Trailsmith Raxxall, Myeka, Leaf Chaser Shriko, Apprentice Ranger Dulanin, Nightstalker Aleyden, Trail Rider Kyrrian, Scout Littlefoot who is sitting, Peregrine Kasrendyr, Native Marney, Awakener Currahee, Scout Olinslag, Master Ranger Mivoring, Mountain Wisp Sefiya, Avalanche Xelten.
Obvious exits: none.



Audacia asks, "OK, think we're ready?"
Zeyurn nods to Audacia.
Zeyurn takes a bite of the taco.
Audacia exclaims, "Alright, let's get started!"
Audacia says, "For those of you who don't know me, I'll introduce myself..."
Audacia says, "I've been trying to pop in on a few of you in the last few months, but haven't made it to see as many as I'd hoped."
Audacia exclaims, "You guys sure are busy!"
Audacia says, "I am ASGM Audacia, your Temporary Ranger Guild Advocate. "Temporary" because I actually am in charge of a lot of DR-ly things and because of this, am not able to give Rangers my 100% focus and attention like I wish, and you deserve. "
Audacia exclaims, "But! My heart is in the guild and I wanted to do what I could to be here for y'all until I hire someone up who has more time at which point I'll slip into a sort of assistant role. In the meantime, I'm having a blast trying to get Ranger stuff in order behind the scenes and have several things I am working on that I hope you'll find as cool as I do!"
Audacia says, "(If you ask real nice, I might give you hints )"
Audacia says, "Now, most importantly, as always, (and thank the Gods since I am not a great coder!!!) we also have the amazing Zeyurn coding for us, and as you know, he's crazy good. I have decided that he is Superman. He's always working on mind-blowing coolness and I know tonight had some things to talk about, and pick your brain on."
Audacia says, "I'm going to assume you asked nicely, since you are all hushed..."
Audacia chortles softly at some secret joke.
Audacia says, "As far as what I am working on, the major one at this moment in time, is that we will soon be able to swim across the Selgotha."
Audacia winks.
Zeyurn says to Audacia, "We have to keep them muzzled for our sanity."
Audacia nods to Zeyurn.
Audacia says, "I am also working on updating the Guildleaders with some more personalized ASK messaging, and perhaps a few more Guild titles."
Audacia says, "Someone made a neat suggestion on the boards a while back about a Ranger Retreat - basically a revolving tiny town for Rangers. This is something I am working on, but it's not going to be super soon."
Zeyurn takes a bite of the taco.
Audacia says, "The swimming thing is "fairly soon", I am hoping this summer. So don't expect it tomorrow, but it's heavily in progress."
Audacia says, "BUt it will be sending you from some place near Crossing, to some place South of Leth."
Audacia says, "And it's not going to be easy."
Audacia grins.
Audacia says, "I think that's it that I have approved and can mention right now. I know Zeyurn has a ton of stuff he is working on, wow."
Audacia asks, "Zeyurn, do you have anything to mention before I explain the question list?"
Zeyurn says, "Sure, I can go through a few things before we unleash the rabid hordes."
Audacia hums happily to herself.

Zeyurn says, "If you read the forums you probably know that Skinning 1.9, as I like to call it, is about ready to be released."
Zeyurn says, "Basically what this is going to mean is that finally you aren't going to be penalized for being bonused in skinning ranks."
Zeyurn says, "We'll be keeping an eye on the learning rates to make sure that, shockingly, Rangers will be the best at learning skinning now."
Zeyurn says, "Reports from the Test server so far are good, but it's a small crowd, so we'll be monitoring post release as well."
A luminous cloud descends from the sky, spreading a warm, golden glow over everything around you. As the cloud hovers just at arm's reach, the light from within it begins to pulsate, and you see a form taking shape in its midst. Soon the vaporous haze has dissipated, and Tiesse is standing at your side.
Tiesse casually observes the area.
Zeyurn says, "Arrange is not going to be required to get a perfect skin, but it will greatly increase your chances."
Audacia observes Tiesse with fascination.
Tiesse says, "Oh, whoops, thought this was the Necromancer meeting."
Tiesse suddenly fades away.
Zeyurn says, "Arrange will also teach skinning skill, so there's even more reason to do it."
Audacia says, "She dies soon."
Zeyurn says, "That's the major thing to look forward to in probably the next week or so."
* GameMaster Tiesse has just fallen to a small swarm of smurfs.
Zeyurn says, "As you know, I've been working on Necromancers primarily of late, but I'm still going to be doing my best to make sure the other guilds under my perview aren't totally neglected, since as it stands, I'm the only Survival Team coder."
Zeyurn says, "The main thing that we're going to ask you to do in the Q&A period here, although you can certainly ask any questions you want, is get ideas about how you guys think Ranger magic could be improved."
Zeyurn says, "One of the problems Ranger magic has is that it tries to do too many things at once per spell, and their functions are impaired due to it."
Zeyurn says, "Spells are supposed to be equivalent per guild, a Ranger spell isn't meant to be weaker than a War Mage or Moon Mage spell, but obviously the more effects you cram into each spell, the lesser each of these is going to be."
Zeyurn says, "And some Ranger spells are just anemic from the old days where tert magic WAS supposed to be weaker."
Zeyurn says, "So that's probably the next big coding project I'd like to see for the Ranger guild, is improved old and some new spells."
Zeyurn says, "This meeting is largely about Q&A though, especially spell-wise, so I'll let the dazzling Audacia explain how it will work."
Audacia grins.
Audacia says, "So as Zeyurn mentioned, the Question list is for both questions and suggestions that you may have about the Ranger Guild in general but also your input, suggestions and ideas on our spells. Old and new."
Audacia says, "Now the fun part is, we decided to be mean."
Audacia beams!
Audacia exclaims, "We will be pulling names off at random. So! Be ready!"
Audacia says, "I'll leave the list open for now."
Audacia asks, "Are we ready?"
Audacia says, "I'm actually excited, he knows everything so I just get to sit here and have fun."
Audacia hums to herself.

Marney is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Marney and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her.
Audacia points a speaker's staff at Marney and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her.
Marney says, "Hey there"
Marney says, "My question/suggestion is this..I only have one spell sop, which is perfect as far as I can tell."
Marney asks, "But I want to learn HOL...Will it still augment skinning and perception, or change to just perception?"
Marney says, "Since we'll have arrange for skinning."
Zeyurn says, "Hands of Lirisa is a skinning spell and will remain that way, it doesn't do anything for perception."
Marney says, "My bad."
Marney says, "I thought it did."
Marney blushes a bright red color.
Zeyurn says, "You do have one, but that's Wolf Scent."
Marney says, "Oh that's the one."
Marney blushes a bright red color.
Marney says, "I get so confused with our spells."
Zeyurn says, "Wolf Scent is a good example of a spell that probably tries to do too much."
Marney says, "Yea Wolf scent nae HOL."
Marney slaps her forehead!
Zeyurn says, "Anyway, any changes we make will be announced well ahead of time."
Zeyurn says, "That will give people time to prepare and hoard slots if they like."
Marney asks, "hmm so then is wolf scent considered second or third tier?"

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Rudius and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Rudius says, "oh goodie"
Rudius asks, "you mentioned that there are new spells in store for us, but will the existing spells be ironed out before that happens?"
Zeyurn says, "Probably, yes. I'd prefer to fix the old before adding new, but it's possible some old spells may split into two spells."
Rudius says, "i ask because many of us feel theres plenty of problems with the current spells as is, such as BB and HB"
Zeyurn chortles softly at some secret joke.
Zeyurn says, "Well, you're the opposite of Plat, who said they love BB and HB and hate everything else."
Rudius says, "currently, BB does not add a bigger stun no matter how much mana you pump into it, and HB stil can not be cast in someareas even though you previously stated it would be allowed to do so"
Zeyurn says, "Mana has nothing to do with contested spell duration, it's how well you succeed."
Zeyurn says, "You could get max effect at min mana, or the reverse."
Rudius asks, "as i understood it adding more mana did enchance the chance of further success?"
Zeyurn says, "More mana does help the success, yes."
Rudius says, "but this does not seem to be the case, even with critter well below my level"
Zeyurn says, "But your personal stats are the big factor."
Zeyurn says, "BB is a short stun that leads into a longer unconscious."
Zeyurn says, "About the only really bad thing you can say about HB is that web is a less than thrilling status effect."
Zeyurn says, "Which is why it does a little more than jsut that."
Rudius says, "myself and other rangers feel that there maybe a problem with the contested part, where mana put into the spell is not being considered"
Zeyurn says, "Yourself and other Rangers would be wrong then."
Rudius scratches his head.
Audacia chortles softly at some secret joke.
Rudius asks, "but HB still can not be casted in water?"
Zeyurn says, "Yes, that's I think the only thing that stops it."
Rudius says, "previous post you said it would be able to be casted in any room"
Zeyurn says, "Well, what I was referring to was that urban areas won't stop it."
Rudius scratches his head.
Zeyurn says, "Many ranger spells can't be cast in too urban an area, we removed that restriction."
Rudius says, "then there are no plans to adjust either of these spells im guessing"
Zeyurn says, "BB and HB are actually probably rather nice as disablers go. The only thing wrong with HB is that there are too many anti-web abilities."
Rudius says, "i see"
Rudius asks, "these two spells will remain unchanged then?"
Zeyurn says, "I don't have any plans to change them. I'm more concerned about other spells."
Zeyurn says, "Such as GRIZ"
Rudius nods.

Kasrendyr is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Kasrendyr and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Kasrendyr says, "First off....Audacia....a squad of smurf assassins? Im scared."
Audacia preens. Someone's pleased with herself!
Audacia says, "Necromancer meeting indeed."
Audacia rolls her eyes.
Kasrendyr says, "Second, since you asked for ideas on how to improve the spells...heres an idea...take Wolf Scent for instance...."
Kasrendyr says, "since Bezyan says its too underpowered because it does multiple things, give us a choice when casting on which skill we want to enhance...."
Kasrendyr says, "Say like 'cast WS hands...for foraging, or cast WS eyes for perception."
Zeyurn says, "Well, that is one way you can go about it, limit yourself to only one type of buff."
Kasrendyr says, "Secondly...our held mana spells..break them up..we already have SOTT for reflex...make CS just an agility booster"
Zeyurn says, "Splitting the spells is probably the more likely option."
Kasrendyr says, "And do the same for Bear Strength"
Kasrendyr exclaims, "Oh Gods, please no! No enough spell slots!"
Zeyurn says, "Choice is important."
Zeyurn says, "If you want to make spells versatile and cram them into fewer slots, they have to be weaker."
Kasrendyr says, "As a conparison....say malediction...you can cast it for offense...or defense...or general..where you get both,but its weaker"
Kasrendyr says, "So why can we not do the same for...perc, scouting, and forage...enhance all a little..or pick one at casting time to get a big boost"
Kasrendyr exclaims, "And lasty, as a side note...Im okay with most of my spells....please fix the beseeches...theyre pitiful!"
Audacia says, "No B words."
Zeyurn says, "Doing something like that is possible, but we haven't really decided what route we want to go."
Zeyurn says, "Honestly, I'm not sure too many people really want a foraging boost anyway."
Zeyurn chortles softly at some secret joke.
Kasrendyr exclaims, "Okay, just my off the top of my head suggestion. thanks for all the hard work!"

Mivoring is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Mivoring and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her.
Mivoring says, "Well this is rather long winded."
Mivoring says, "But go figure."
Mivoring ducks her head.
Audacia rubs her hands together.
Mivoring says, "My first question is in regards to Companions, they suck IMO, I am so tired of losing them I don't even bother anymore.. Any idea when they will get some TLC? As for spells the TM req for damaging spells hit most rangers hard this late in most carreers. As for spell suggestions make a foraging spell and a separate perception spell and call one wolf scent. Griz claw- just needs to do something well. I like STW,SPC,HOL,CAIS,EM,BLend, and NC. Our new TM spells rock! especially Devitalize. I would like to see PLS get some tlc as well. There is more but that is all I can think of right now."
Audacia wobbles, looking a bit faint.
Audacia says, "No ETA on Companions."
Audacia says, "I hate to say it and I wish it were otherwise."
Mivoring says, "I left my whip in my vault."
Mivoring nods.
Zeyurn says, "I know people like Companions a lot but they're something that will require an immense amount of effort to redo and they're just not top of the priority list."
Cerran removes his name from the speaker's list.
Audacia says, "I am in charge of hiring though, so I figure there will be a new GM I can scare into taking it over and getting it fixed "soon"."
Audacia lets out a deep sigh of contentment.
Zeyurn says, "The suggestion from Plat was to ditch PLS from what it was and just make it a straight 4th tier TM spell with a bonus against corporeal undead."
Zeyurn says, "Which I admit, I like the idea of writing a spell involving hordes of things eating somebody alive."
Mivoring nods.
Zeyurn says, "But I didn't at the time want to change any current ranger spells to TM."
Mivoring says, "Sounds very reasonable."
Zeyurn says, "People seem to be more amenable for it now."
Zeyurn says, "GRIZ is a good candidate for a spell separation."
Mivoring says, "The TM req was a bit tough, many are still back training like myself."
Zeyurn says, "To be an AoE strong knockback/down with RT component and do something else for anti-webbing."
Zeyurn says, "We're writing down all the suggestions though."
Mivoring says, "Oh, n Thanks for giving us all a chance to speak here, It has been a long time and it is much appreciated."
Zeyurn says, "So we can see which are the best. I know people groan about lack of spell slots but it's better to have a lot of cool, useful spells than a handful of mediocre ones."
Audacia beams!
Mivoring nods to Zeyurn.

Dulanin is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Dulanin and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Dulanin says, "Hi."
Dulanin says, "I've just got one quick thing I thought of and that's it."
Dulanin says, "Going off of what you were saying with Rudius... If you can get max effect with min mana, would that be a niche for contested spells? Don't really know what that'd mean, just sounded interesting."
Zeyurn says, "I'm confused. That's how contested spells work right now."
Zeyurn says, "It's a contest between you and them."
Zeyurn says, "If you outclass them a lot, you don't need a lot of mana."
Zeyurn says, "If you don't, you need to pump more into it."
Dulanin ponders.
Dulanin nods.
Dulanin says, "Sounds like I just misunderstood then. Thanks."
Zeyurn nods.

Currahee is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Currahee and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Currahee exclaims, "When these new spells split and what not, will our books be wiped so we can make those important choices? I have to agree with Rudius about our two crowd control spells not being in-line with others of their type. And what ever happened to the nature pool and making beseeches useful? Yes, the B word!"
Zeyurn says, "I really couldn't tell you either way about spell wiping. That's a decision that isn't made at my level, and we'll have to see what's going on before it even becomes a topic for discussion."
Shendorian removes his name from the speaker's list.
Currahee says, "It's a bit unfair to change a spell that we picked for it's original use."
Zeyurn says, "We'd like to make beseeches useful, but to be frank with you, the project was given to somebody who was unable to do anything with it. We'll have to look at giving it elsewhere."
Currahee says, "What if it changes to something we didn't pick it for? Then we're stuck with someone that isn't intended to work how it was originally picked for."
Zeyurn says, "That's what the Throne City guy is for, in part."
Audacia picks up a sinuous prong-tipped whip.
Zeyurn says, "You get a free single spell wipe every so often, and a cash only one more frequently than that."
Martyka removes her name from the speaker's list.
Zeyurn says, "I'm not saying it's off the table, but.. there is a reason for that guy too."
Currahee says, "I'd rather not be forced to wait months and spend money for something I picked for a certain reason and then got changed."
Currahee asks, "But if it happens, it happens, right?"
Currahee asks, "One last note...swimming the Segoltha is going to be 'hard', can you offer a comparison?"
Zeyurn says, "It's not a discussion we're ready to have just yet."
Zeyurn says, "Hm."
Zeyurn says, "I'm not really as knowledgable about the hard swimming places around Elanthia."
Currahee asks, "Like double as hard as the Jantspyre?"
Zeyurn says, "How hard is the Jantspyre."
Zeyurn asks, "err ?"
Zeyurn grins.
Currahee says, "Eh...skillwise? 150 makes it easy."
Zeyurn says, "Um.. probably at least double, but it'll be set up like the faldesu."
Audacia says, "I've been testing it a bit today."
Zeyurn says, "There'll be a 'harder' route that you can use to train higher as well."
Currahee nods to Zeyurn.
Currahee says, "Thanks."
Zeyurn says, "Audacia's the one who'll be setting final numbers though."
Zeyurn says, "She may smack me upside the head and do something different."
Audacia says, "It's tough but not outrageously so."
Audacia says, "Sorry, was telling him what I have it at right now to be sure."
Audacia teases you.

Asterid is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Asterid and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Asterid says, "greetings..."
Asterid says, "Sorry, I missed the first 30 minutes or so, so if you went over this, please forgive me. There are three things I love about being a ranger. "
Asterid says, "I love magic, I love bows, and I love evasion. "
Asterid asks, "what plans are there for steppes of lirisa?"
Zeyurn says, "Honestly, there really isn't one. If there's a concept that makes sense to fit into the name 'Steps of Lirisa', I don't mind executing it, but.."
Asterid says, "also, Falkonis had some nice bow feats. What are those plans? I would really like to be able to dual load without having to cast HOL after a certain point. I mean I can skin almost any thing I hunt."
Audacia says, "I loved the bow feat ideas."
Zeyurn says, "To go further on 'proposed' spells of the past real fast.."
Zeyurn says, "I'd just consider that they don't exist and propose what you want to see. There's minor notes on them but.. if they were a good idea back then, they'll still be a good idea now."
Asterid says, "eagle vision was another one I think. and sorry about spelling steps of lirisa wrong"
Valeres adds his name to the speaker's list.
Zeyurn says, "We do want to do some more bow related stuff for Rangers, there was a mess of stuff approved way back before I was even part of developing for this guild, and some of it can probably be salvaged."
Asterid exclaims, "well, go with dual load not needing HOL!"
Asterid shakes his fist!
Zeyurn chuckles.

Cerval is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Cerval and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Shendorian adds his name to the speaker's list.
Cerval says, "just a quick comment and question"
Cerval says, "since you wanted feedback on magic...Claws of the Cougar"
Zeyurn nods.
Cerval asks, "it's a nice spell, but is there anyway you could change up the weapons it bonuses? or maybe even let us choose?"
Cerval says, "really, edged weapons don't need any more help"
Gigavi Vayato Knalana came through a wide doorway.
Cerran adds his name to the speaker's list.
Zeyurn says, "It might be possible to do more of a 'whatever you're holding' bonus."
Valynn adds her name to the speaker's list.
Cerval says, "that would be amazing. "
Zeyurn says, "But it'd likely be limited to melee-style weapons."
Cerval nods to Zeyurn.
Zeyurn says, "And brawling"
Cerval says, "that would be perfect to be honest. i've played with it a bit, and the bonus is nice...but the 'highest edged weapon' is just bleh."
Zeyurn says, "I don't really like pigeonholing people into a single weapon skill."
Zeyurn says, "So yes, that's a good suggestion."
Zeyurn grins.
Cerval says, "second question is more of a design type thing...and i'm not even sure you guys can answer it yet..."
Cerval asks, "you said Companions were way in the future... now i've seen a bunch of ideas tossed around the forums, but can you guys shed any light on things you're leaning towards for the system?"
Audacia says, "I'd hate to say much of anything at all."
Audacia says, "But rest assured, I am keeping notes on all the suggestions for future use."
Cerval nods.
Audacia says, "So don't be afraid to keep throwing them out there."
Zeyurn says, "I tend to agree with Audacia. Nothing's been approved, and I get queasy making things that even vaguely sound like promises about that kind of stuff."
Zeyurn says, "I will say though.."
Zeyurn says, "I'm just about done overhauling the entire creature core."
Zeyurn says, "Which adds more support for a variety of things, including useful summonable creatures."
Audacia says, "I tollld you he was Superman."
Audacia praises Zeyurn.
Cerval says, "i'm mostly wondering in a broad general sense. i think War Mage familiars pretty much cap the 'utility' aspect of player-summonables"
Zeyurn says, "I don't think you've begun to see what we can do for 'utility' summoning."
Zeyurn chortles softly at some secret joke.
Cerval says, "our Ranger companions supposed to be more utility, combat, or pure fluff use"
Zeyurn says, "Let's move to Awaken Forest briefly."
Cerval nods.
Cerval asks, "make it like an avenger? so i can just web and watch it work?"
Cerval ducks his head.
Zeyurn says, "With the creature rewrite, one possible plan for AF is to make it an actual 'tank' type summon that forces creatures to target it while you sneak around or shoot at them from afar. Not really attacking, but holding and good at defense."
Cerval nods.
Zeyurn says, "Also, it should last a less sucky duration."
Cerval says, "last thing, thanks for making me want tacos at 10PM."
Cerval says, "i'm blaming you Zeyurn."
Cerval grumbles.
Zeyurn says, "Mm.. tacos."
Audacia snickers.
Cerval says, "thanks for the great work you guys"

Kyrrian is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Kyrrian and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Kyrrian exclaims, "I'm free!!!"
Kyrrian throws his head back and howls, sounding remarkably like a real wolf!
Kyrrian gives Zeyurn a smooch.
Kyrrian gives Audacia a smooch.
Audacia chuckles.
Audacia bounces around happily.
Kyrrian says, "Here's my feedback on magic.."
Kyrrian says, "Wow."
Kyrrian says, "I'm not the only relic here who remembers fondly the sphere of death."
Kyrrian says, "I'm really amazed at how far we've come."
Kyrrian says, "Heh."
You hear a muffled whirring sound.
Kyrrian says, "So... good work."
Zeyurn says, "Well, we got a ways to go still, but thanks."
Zeyurn chuckles.
Kyrrian says, "Ahhh, these young whippersnappers are jes' spoiled."
Kyrrian exclaims, "Spells, beseeches.. TM!"
Kyrrian says, "So no more whining."
Kyrrian shakes his fist!
Audacia says, "Thank you."
Kyrrian says, "Oh, and guild titles."
Kyrrian asks, "Can we have age-related guild titles?"
Audacia asks, "Post your suggestions on the boards for me, please?"
Audacia says, "That helps out a lot."
Audacia smiles.
Kyrrian says, "Cause I'm headed fer 100 and I wanna get my props."
Audacia asks, "Is that all you had?"
Kyrrian nods to Audacia.
Audacia exclaims, "Well thank you very much and good luck!"
Purnay removes his name from the speaker's list.
Audacia beams!
Kyrrian says, "Just wanted to say thanks.. y'all have done an amazing job since I been gone"

Cerran is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Cerran and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Cerran asks, "Good evening. As companions have been addressed, I'm curious about horses. Are there any plans to address that system and perhaps expand their usefulness? Can you comment further about the planned seperation of stealth and invisibility? There are still snags with blend and NC.. things that break them or reveal, that shouldn't. Lastly, you mentioned the creature core. Can you comment on stealth and critters? Who's tired of loosing ammo while snipeing?"
Zeyurn says, "Horses are one of the dreaded 4 systems I don't touch."
Zeyurn says, "As I said on the boards, right now invisibility is 'better hiding' and this is not what we want."
Zeyurn says, "Eventually I'd like to see actions from hiding that aren't possible from invisibility, and invisibility's use be primarily the ability to run around quickly without skillchecks or RT."
Zeyurn says, "Blend uses a annoying way of figuring out what you can do"
Zeyurn says, "Which requires frequent maintenance to work right."
Zeyurn says, "Anyway, creatures are more likely to stick around at least a little while during your hiding, but if they can't see you at all they will eventually try to run, of course."
Cerran says, "I do like the lil' warnings we get under NC... perhaps some of those could also be applied to blend."
Zeyurn says, "Again, that's one reason to change AF to be more of a support summon to help hold creatures for you while you be stealthy."
Cerran asks, "If horses are one of the four, what are the other three systems you won't touch?"
Zeyurn says, "It would have a use instead of just amusement value or accidentally killing all your fellow GMs during a test run of something because you don't know how to cast it."
Zeyurn says, "Anyway, they're boats, substances, and houses."
You hear the voice of Tiesse say, "Heheh."
Cerran exclaims, "Summon the smurfs!"
You hear the voice of Tiesse say, "I totally knew all 4, too."
Cerran says, "Thanks much."
You hear the voice of Tiesse say, "And the spawny thing is my favorite ranger spell by far."
Zeyurn says, "You just say that because you mass murdered with it."
You hear the voice of Tiesse say, "YES."
Audacia says, "They are demanding I kill you with something meaner than Smurfs this time, Tiesse..."
A tear runs down Tiesse's face.
A horde of Rabid vampire smurfs rushes in and carries Tiesse away.

Valeres is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Valeres and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Valeres asks, "Hello All. I don't have much to say about magic except to ask. Will HOL play a big role in the new skinning? Otherwise, I have been in the test server and tested the new skinning. I think it's great for non rangers but feel a bit slighted in the benefit we rangers get. Other than not having to count the kill (arrange second critter, arrange third critter...) What benefit does this have for us? It was posted that you were going to ask the "bosses" about if we outclass the critter we would get 100% 100 part hides. Can you talk about that? Could it be set up where if we have HOL cast on us, we could elimate this roll?"
Zeyurn says, "Yeah, when it comes live Rangers who maximize the arrange will be able to get trophy hides always assuming their skill is high enough."
Valeres says, "If this was covered on the boards I appologize, working nights and all I have not read them the last couple days."
Valeres nods.
Zeyurn says, "You won't need HOL for anything, but it will actually help now instead of hurt."
Valeres asks, "I do love the HUNT verb and thik it's great. Any other benefits for us in the near future?"
Zeyurn says, "I still want to redo trails to be better but with Hunt actually teaching you Scouting it's lower priority."
Zeyurn says, "I need clones to try to develop 3 guilds at once and work on core systems."
Audacia says, "We have one or two in training."
Audacia says, "So "soon""
Audacia says, "Clones, that is."

Shriko is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Shriko and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Shriko says, "Yeah, I'm a foraging nut (10 ranks/circle) hoping for getting capped cebi by 40th. Is there any chance we can get hisan grass added for hisan salve? And second, and probably stepping in forbidden territory, but is the mech lore split approaching the horizon? And second and a half, are Necromancers going to have Snipe, being survival primary?'"
Shriko shrugs.
Shriko says, "Dreaded substance question came out"
Audacia laughs!
Audacia says, "WOw."
Zeyurn says, "Um.. foraging definitely needs more stuff added to it, it's on the list if I ever figure out how to do it."
Zeyurn says, "No comment on the mechlore split."
Zeyurn says, "Foraging = substances, just fyi"
Shriko chuckles.
Shriko nods.
Zeyurn says, "It scares me."
Zeyurn says, "Necromancers will not be able to learn Snipe like Rangers and Thieves, since they are not weapons secondary."
Audacia laughs!

Valynn is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Valynn and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her.
Valynn says, "Greets and stuffs."
Valynn says, "I'd like to extend a sincere thank you for offering this opportunity. I know you're busy and all and I'm sure we all appreciate you taking some time with us."
Zeyurn says, "We do love talking to you, in between bouts of killing you."
Zeyurn hums to himself.
Valynn snickers.
Valynn says, "Yeah..."
Audacia says, "Very welcome, we'll try to do meetings twice a year if possible."
Valynn clears her throat.
Valynn praises Audacia.
Valynn says, "That would be awesome, really."
Valynn asks, "Two questions, first, can you maybe speak a little about bonus and how it's being "fixed"? And second, would there be a quick remedy to PLS so you can cast at what you are facing without having to designate the critter?"
Zeyurn says, "Okay, Ranger Bonus 101 lecture now."
Zeyurn says, "Your bonus is dependant on the area you're in and your attunement to Nature."
Zeyurn says, "The more wild the area and the better your attunement, the better the bonus."
Zeyurn says, "Conversely, the more urban the area, the more it screws you up."
Zeyurn says, "Now.. as I always understood the 'plan', it was that Thief bonus was static, you got it just by existing and lost it as soon as you went somewhere non-suitable, but got it back right away too."
Zeyurn says, "However, Ranger bonus.."
Zeyurn says, "It was meant to follow you around."
Zeyurn says, "Right now what happens is the negative certainly follows you, because if you have negative attunement you have terrible skills everywhere."
Kyrrian wanders through a wide doorway.
Zeyurn says, "But if you have great attunement, you're still penalized in cities."
Audacia whispers, "Attunement basically just means how well you are attuned to nature..."
Audacia whispers, "which involves being out in it doing Rangerly things!"
Zeyurn says, "The plan is to make it so that if you have great attunement,your 'bonus' is the same no matter where you are, but it degrades as you lose attunement and recovers as you gain it back."
Zeyurn says, "So if you've got a good bonus, you're still bonused in a city until you're dumb and stay there long enough to moo."
Zeyurn says, "And yes, I have my network whispering in my ear that PLS can be fixed quickly."
Zeyurn says, "So I'll do that after the meeting."
Valynn asks, "One more question...?"
Zeyurn says, "If it's quick."
Zeyurn grins.
Valynn asks, "Can you tell us which skills are bonused?"
Valynn says, "And which are not? There's lots of speculation."
Zeyurn says, "Stealth, perception, foraging, skinning."
Zeyurn says, "swimming, climbing"
Zeyurn says, "At least I think on climbing."

Aleyden is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Aleyden and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Aleyden says, "Okay i have a lot to cram in fast."
Zeyurn says, "Paste it in then."
Aleyden says, "Grizzly claw I think should be escaping boost, with a slight web break when cast."
Aleyden says, "CS could use a balance boost, BES anti stun"
Aleyden says, "Split Ws, PLS, Swarm, remove escaping bonus from Cotc and do the weapon in hand thing great idea.."
Aleyden says, "I personally rather pick and choose my spells then have them doing a bunch of nothing."
Aleyden says, "Awaken forest I love but generally i'd like it more if it followed me around with higher duration."
Aleyden says, "I would love to see more protection spells and more wilderness survival spells as well."
Zeyurn says, "I can't really respond to all that in any reasonable time frame, but we'll write it all down."
Zeyurn chortles softly at some secret joke.
Zeyurn says, "I'll just go for a couple points: Anti-stunning isn't likely."
Aleyden says, "It was a nice try."
Zeyurn says, "Swarm should be removing people from hiding but it's not doing that."
Zeyurn says, "I think you'll find the spell more useful at that point."
Aleyden says, "Swarm I'd rather see the rt or the balance go, the alternating between I think is really annoying."
Zeyurn says, "The RT and balance are quirks."
Zeyurn says, "They aren't there to be effective."
Aleyden says, "Ahhh"
Zeyurn says, "They're just flavor, basically."
Aleyden says, "That would explain it."
Zeyurn says, "Okay, we're going to try to power through the rest of the people here."
Zeyurn says, "Try to have your questions/comments ready."
Aleyden says, "I like how ranger TM is going so far so that is fine, although I'd love to see a undead TM spell work."
Zeyurn grins.
Aleyden nods.
Zeyurn says, "PLS will probably be that one."

Hanryu is next.

Zeyurn says, "And what PLS does now can be something else if people like the concept enough to revisit it."
Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Hanryu and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Hanryu says, "Be as specific as the NDA allows in what the ratio of attacker stats v. defender stats is in all the Sv.X spells. What's the key stat for each, how much is each stat weighted, by what percentage do modifiers like range and balance affect the contest."
Zeyurn chortles softly at some secret joke.
Hanryu laughs!
Hanryu says, "Had to try."
Zeyurn asks, "Should I call upon Armifer to smite thee?"
Hanryu snickers.
Audacia says, "He's not specific or anything."
Hanryu says, "Maybe."
The air wavers in front of you, everything beyond it shimmering like things seen under water, while colors ripple across the surface of the air, spinning and transforming themselves slowly into the form of Abasha.
Abasha asks, "Who am I smiting?"
You hear the voice of Tiesse say, "I'm skurred."
Teamac wanders through a wide doorway.
Hanryu says, "Valynn."
Hanryu points at Valeres.
Audacia bops Abasha over the head.
Hanryu points at Valynn.
Abasha bops Hanryu over the head.
Hanryu laughs!
Gem-like particles begin to swirl from Abasha who quickly fades into a sparkling cloud of tiny stars that float away, disappearing into the sky.
Zeyurn says, "Too many A named GMs."
Hanryu says, "Hey, when in doubt throw your friends under the bus."
Zeyurn says, "Anyway, there really isn't anything I can say about that. If Armifer chooses to elaborate he may do so on the boards at his own discretion."
Zeyurn asks, "Did you have any other question/comment before we move on?"
Hanryu says, "No, thanks for trying talk him into telling."

Bezyan is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at you and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before you.
Bezyan says, "Overall I must say I'm pretty happy with the spells I have, but since you asked, I've prepared a few questions."
Bezyan says, "Truly, I appreciate the time and effort you and the team put into the guild."
Bezyan says, "smi"
Bezyan says, "First off, in general, I think a lot of us are not comfortable with magic, how it works, and how it is contested. "
Bezyan says, "Saying something is SvS, SvA, SvQ or Xv6 is not as meaningful to me as you might think. I'm working on learning though."
Bezyan says, "I don't want to speak for my fellow rangers, but I suspect the confusion may be shared, leading to misunderstandings."
Bezyan says, "A future tutorial/meeting on the wonders of magic might be beneficial."
why some spells like Sphere of Protection are renewable, and others are not.
Bezyan smiles.
Bezyan says, "Will the ability, or lack there of, to renew spells like Wolf Scent or See The Wind, be a consideration? It's unclear to me why some spells like Sphere of Protection are renewable, and others are not."
Bezyan smiles.
Bezyan asks, "Is there any update on previously hinted at spells like the Twiddle With Undergrowth series?"
Bezyan says, "I liked the descriptions I've read about vines and grass holding our enemies. "
Bezyan says, "An AOE holder, with the next tier being AOE damager."
Bezyan takes in a great breath of air.
Bezyan says, "And lastly, I personally like the idea of having options within a spell. "
Bezyan says, "The aforementioned WS for a the multi-effect, WS PER for the just the perception part. Same overall power, but directed. Focused."
Bezyan says, "If a multi-aspect spell is not in the cards, may I suggest the mere addition of spells. "
Bezyan says, "That increases choice, and gives those of us who are satisfied with multi-aspect-but-weaker versions to make that choice. "
Bezyan says, "Someone wanting a pure Agility boost can choose that appropriate spell. That way we aren't all cast into the same template."
Bezyan says, "exhale"
Bezyan says, "I must say I also like the idea of swarming critters or plant life eating my opponent alive"
Bezyan exclaim, "More dark spells please!"
Bezyan says, "You've piqued my interest with Awaken Forest, I wasn't aware it could kill anything."
Bezyan says, "oh, and one last thing. I love how we get a green + when we bonus a stat"
Bezyan says, "can we get a red - when we get a neg"
Bezyan says, "and can we get the same visual indicators for skills, not just stats"
Bezyan says, "It's go a long way toward figuring out what we have going for us."
Zeyurn says, "Egad."
Audacia says, "Whoa."
Audacia wobbles, looking a bit faint.
Audacia laughs!
Audacia says, "Take a breath."
Bezyan says, "gah, that didn't look as bad here"
Bezyan says, "I was being prepared :)"
Audacia grins.
Bezyan says, "sorry folks. "
Zeyurn says, "I have to read now, one second."
Zeyurn says, "Okay.. I'm going to make a quick comment in general, being able to be a bit more variable with your magic is something we tend to leave to the 'purer' wizards, that doesn't mean we want Ranger (and Paladin) magic to be weaker. Just perhaps less into the voodoo and more simple, strong, with a focused purpose."
Zeyurn says, "So it doesn't mean we can't do spells where you choose what bonus you want but can only have one."
Bezyan says, "We take what we get."
You smile quietly to yourself.
Zeyurn says, "But that in general, the philosophy we are following with Tert magic is spells that have one vision, one purpose, and do it really well. A 'purpose' can be boosting more than one thing at once, it's just meant to accomplish something specific instead of 3 skill boosts that don't really go together."
Zeyurn says, "(see: Wolf Scent)"
You nod.
Zeyurn says, "I'd like Enrage Undergrowth to be the 3rd tier Ranger TM spell, or move PLS to 3rd tier and Enrage Undergrowth be 4th."
Zeyurn says, "again assuming we make PLS into a TM with betterness vs corp undead."
Audacia says, "As far as the tutorials on Ranger magic, that sounds like a great topic for the Mentor Ranger meetings."
Zeyurn says, "As for skill +-s, I believe the answer was 'no' before."
Scavenger Loraia came through a wide doorway.
Zeyurn says, "I don't know about making the - a different color, I can ask our resident expert."
Bezyan exclaims, "the problem with too many good spells is too many choices. A conundrum!"
You hear the voice of Armifer say, "Speaking in general terms: I never want to penalize a magic tert spell's numbers. If you have a TM spell that is very much like a Moon Mage TM spell, it should be equivalent. But that said, the focus on the theme and complexity of the spell should wax more toward the complex and "wizardly" with Primes, and more toward tool-making with Terts, just as a matter of establishing the mood of the different guilds' approaches to magic."
Bezyan exclaims, "I'm done. Sorry for the verbal assault there. I'll practice my etiquette for next time!"
Zeyurn says, "There you have it, we'll move on and finish up our last four."
Zeyurn grins.

Xelten is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Xelten and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Xelten asks, "Firstly, thanks for having a meeting. However, I assumed you would go over a list of things before moving to questions. Spells have been discussed quite a bit on the boards already, and I'll be sure to add to my previous posts, so I'll move to just a few of the other things that have not been mentioned. What is the status of: Pounce, Volley, ETA of bonus rewrite/fixes, more precise way to check current bonus level, increased accuracy dual load, triple+ load, loading with small shields without see the wind, loading with medium shields with see the wind, and armor perks? What happened to the beseech rewrite and nature's pool almost being completed as of last meeting? New beseeches, etcetera. And much, much more. Also, how much rank-wise does our bonus boost our skills, so we can solve the Perception mystery?"
Zeyurn says, "Well, the meeting was honestly called mostly to talk about magic and get player feedback/suggestions."
Zeyurn says, "Not everyone reads the boards or posts so we wanted to get more feedback in game too."
Audacia says, "At least thats what I told Zeyurn to get him here."
Audacia says, "Honestly, though, this was his idea."
Audacia snuggles up to Zeyurn.
Zeyurn says, "Pounce, Volley are generally approved but lacking manpower to do them."
Zeyurn says, "Nature's Pool IS done but the Beseeches are not. I thought somebody would be working on them but that turned out not to happen."
Zeyurn says, "Bonus fixes are probably on the 'very soon' list, along with a more precise way to check bonus level."
Zeyurn says, "Your bonus is potentially both scarily high and scarily bad."
Zeyurn says, "The bad part is a bit more visible than the high part because you need to be in really ideal conditions for your bonus to be the best it can be, but not really have to be in terribly bad ones for it to be the worst it can be."
Valynn wanders through a wide doorway.
Zeyurn says, "I don't think I have anything I can comment on regarding the rest. You know I can't give exact numbers on bonuse."
Zeyurn says, "bonuses."
Xelten asks, "Any plans to do the various bow things, especially increased accuracy with multiple arrows, and more arrows?"
Xelten says, "I use dual-load now, but I would like it to be better."
Zeyurn says, "I don't know. Frankly, Barbarians have a big claim to this kind of stuff too, but we obviously want to see Rangers have their own bow business."
Zeyurn says, "But I need to go over and see if these things are feasible to do on a reasonable time frame before I start promising them."
Zeyurn says, "I dislike promising stuff and then not being able to get it done, and I think you guys kind of dislike that sort of thing too."
Audacia chuckles.

Shendorian is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Shendorian and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Shendorian says, "First, I have to say that I love hunt. For me, it far exceeds what I had been hoping the eagle vision spell was going to do when I first started the game (years and years and, oh man, YEARS ago)."
Shendorian says, "If skinning turns out half as well, I ll be impressed. Same for the spell rework I was not a happy camper when I reactivated my account just as the TM reqs were just being put in, so I m thrilled it s getting some TLC."
Shendorian asks, "What balance of targeted magic spells do you foresee for our spellbooks? Just the one spell tree? Or with these upcoming changes and our general (but reluctant) acceptance of back training TM, do you think there will there be more paths in the future?"
Zeyurn says, "Well, I'm going to assume that while some of you like having the TM option, you don't want your main spell tree littered with TM spells."
Shendorian nods.
Zeyurn says, "So in all likelihood TM will be in its own tree away from the normal spells and while they may require some normal spells you'll have to advance through the TM line to get them."
You hear the voice of Armifer say, "Current SoP is that both you and Paladins will have a single, linear TM tree. That's up for negotiation, but it's where we're at now."
Zeyurn says, "I don't want normal spells requiring TM spells."
Shendorian says, "agreed. Just wondering if four would be the limit."
Zeyurn says, "The current plan is 4-5 TM spells when the dust clears."
Shendorian says, "that's it."

Falkonis is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Falkonis and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Falkonis says, "saving the best for almost last"
Falkonis snickers.
Falkonis says, "ok, since this is mostly about magic I'll start with that"
Falkonis says, "I'm one of those older cranky rangers that still feels slighted by the fact that we asked for years for a TM spell, and were told no. To suddenly have all our damage dealing spells become TM."
Falkonis says, "While this doesnt affect lower level people as much, if at all, it it incredibly frustrating for higher level rangers. The people that really like the new TM spells are, for the most part, younger rangers."
Falkonis asks, "I proposed a type of spell that would incompass that fact, and while the numbers may not be perfect in my proposal, what are the chances of something like that being released?"
Falkonis says, "If you didnt see it, it basically is a spell that takes a portion of a rangers ranged weapon (our affintity to bows) and the ranger's TM skill, and incorperates it into a way of learning TM, closer to level, without having to drop ten flights of stairs down the critter ladder."
Zeyurn says, "Sadly, DR is not Armifer and Zeyurn's perfect world. If it were, Rangers and Paladins would have been magic secondary and used TM from the start."
Zeyurn says, "We make do with what we have and have to make decisions on how to improve it based on what we've got."
Zeyurn says, "We've done a lot of stuff to assist in backtraining in general, in aprticular making low ranked skills easier to learn."
Zeyurn says, "But uh.. if you can't learn TM by using your disablers, there's not going to be a spell that lets you substitute bow for TM."
You hear the voice of Armifer say, "I have no intention at the moment of dilluting the TM skill that way, anymore than the Moon Mages would get a spell that lets them augment Heavy Edge with TM. While I understand the backtraining frustrations, I am not willing to make permanent changes for what will, at the end of the day, be transitory -- if painful -- problems."
Zeyurn says, "That'd be like releasing a spell that let WMs evade using their PM skill instead, to use an obviously crazy example."
Falkonis says, "ya, but when you are at the top"
Falkonis says, "disablers dont do anything to help"
Falkonis says, "second question has to do with traps. Right now disarming is among the lowest of all rangers' skills. The trapping system was suppose to fix this. But hasnt been released as of yet. Now have we heard any word on it."
Zeyurn says, "Well.. that's because disarm traps and lockpicking are horrible skills that I've only managed to make mediocre."
Audacia laughs!
Falkonis says, "very horrible"
Falkonis chuckles.
Falkonis asks, "has the trapping system completely gone away?"
Zeyurn says, "It's not something we're thinking of doing in the near future. I could say Mechlore split and run away at this point if you were the last person on the list."
Audacia laughs!
Falkonis exclaims, "lastly Where the heck is Paklin!"
Zeyurn says, "Again, we have to be realistic. At the moment I'm the only coder, and I have a lot to do."
Zeyurn says, "We're working on it, but we're not yet to having better reliable development in the Survival team."

Celitha is next.

Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Celitha and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before her.
Zeyurn says, "You've got the last question, make it count."
Celitha says, "hello "
Zeyurn grins.
Celitha asks, "well first i was hoping if they could remove the held mana status or decrease the harm with cs and bes please?"
Zeyurn says, "Well, Held Mana is one of those interesting things in DR. You've got the contingent that love and the contingent that hate it."
You hear the voice of Armifer ask, "Would you mind them nerfed horribly?"
Celitha asks, "and could we have some defense while drawing a bow other than evasion and hiding if possible?"
Zeyurn says, "Armifer is not going to beat around the bush I see."
Zeyurn says, "Basically, Held Mana allows spells to be much better than they otherwise would be."
Zeyurn says, "Conversely, you have to hold the mana."
You hear the voice of Armifer say, "The stat boosts for those spells are Not Small."
Celitha asks, "so the Paladin heroic strength was nerfed?"
Zeyurn says, "BES and CS are MUCH better than HES."
You hear the voice of Armifer say, "I forget whether we nerfed it or it was simply a horrible spell to begin with, but HS is not remotely as powerful as Bear."
You hear the voice of Armifer say, "I'm inclined to think it was horrible when we found it."
Zeyurn says, "I think you're right, Armifer."
Zeyurn says, "But anyway, think about.. um.. halved in maximum potential."
Zeyurn says, "If we were to make it not held mana."
Celitha asks, "also any chance of staying in a group hunting or of knowing if someone else is hunting in the area?"
Zeyurn asks, "You mean using HUNT to travel as a group?"
Celitha nods to Zeyurn.
Zeyurn says, "I could see that as a Ranger perk."
Zeyurn says, "I'll talk to the bosses about that."
Celitha asks, "and the bow defense issues?"
Zeyurn says, "Well, I'll be frank. Right now popular opinion is that Ranged users really don't need much pity given the sorry state of high level melee combat."
Zeyurn says, "When we rejigger combat, that may change."
Audacia asks, "Are we done?"
Zeyurn says, "Retreating is super easy so there shouldn't be much need for bow users to even hit melee at this point. Which again, slated to change, but at the moment I suggest just staying away."
Zeyurn says, "Okay, I think we're done. I'll say a few closing comments before I run away."
Zeyurn points a speaker's staff at Zeyurn and the usher moves over and holds the voice scepter before him.
Zeyurn says, "As I've made mention on the boards.. one of the main problems we have with Ranger magic is a lack of directed vision."
Zeyurn says, "Some people have begun to notice that 'hey, these Necro spells have a theme and fit together nicely'."
Zeyurn says, "Well this is largely since Armifer and I have designed the guild from the ground up all at once."
Zeyurn says, "Ranger magic suffers from a sort of lack of knowledge of what it wants to do with itself."
Zeyurn says, "The same can be said with Paladin stuff as well. We need to get a solid view of what Rangers should be doing with magic, and make you guys good at it. Then give you options to branch out too and play in other areas."
Zeyurn says, "But the goal is to get a solid package that pretty much every Ranger can enjoy, then let you branch out and explore as suits your personal whimsy."
Zeyurn asks, "I mean yes it's amusing that you can be the janitors of the world, but really?"
You hear a muffled whirring sound.
Zeyurn asks, "Do you need both a spell AND a beseech that makes you trash picker uppers?"
You hear the voice of Armifer say, "Well, yes. Otherwise we get those commericals about the crying Prydaen standing next to the trade route."
Zeyurn chortles softly at some secret joke.
Zeyurn says, "Anyway, there's some problems with Ranger magic doing a dash of everything and not doing it well."
Zeyurn says, "I'd prefer we find out what you want to be good at, and do it well."
Zeyurn says, "So that's the goal."
Zeyurn leans on Audacia.
Audacia beams!
Audacia says, "Well thank you all for coming."
Audacia says, "If you think of any other suggestions for spells, or whatever, please post them on the forums."
Audacia says, "We'll keep an eye on them."
Zeyurn says, "The fabulously talented Audacia will make notes of them and nag me to do stuff."
Audacia says, "I'm also looking for suggestions on areas you find that should be Ranger friendly, and are not."
Audacia laughs!
Audacia says, "That too."
Audacia leans on Zeyurn.

I take it we aren't going to see something on the scale of the Paladin magic rewrite? I know bunches of people would be on both sides of the fence on that.


---
"Close your eyes -
For your eyes will only tell the truth..
And the truth isn't what you want to see.
In the dark, it is easy to pretend
That the truth is what it ought to be." - Erik Claudin

Here's some thoughts from the Plat meeting, plus some ideas I had for new spells...

Existing
GRIZ: eliminate anti-web, make knockdown/knockback only due to coming changes to engagement.

SWARM: (Just notes on how it works, no changes suggested) primarily anti-perception, RTs are just a side-effect and don't impact potency.

PLS: change to 4th tier TM: target eaten alive by bugs!

BLEND/NC: combine functions with CAST BLEND to blend and CAST to NC. Add RF like re-invisibility?

AF: eliminate damage and turn into crowd control. Spawn will draw opponents away from caster. Again, this will be much more needed with new engagement.

HB: eliminate ability for something to both deweb and attack in the same action. maybe increase min duration.

WS: does a lot of different things, but actually seems to be useful. Foraging boost improves learning rates, but foraging sucks....

---

Planned
EU: potential 3rd Tier TM. Will it be DFA/AOE? Can this be like the goo spell and pull people out of hiding?

SU: crowd control, slows/prevents engagement or retreat.

---

New
Gator Skin: makes your skin tougher like an aligator. Acts as a booster to damage absorption. Gives special messaging to S'kra and Prydean vs. other races.

Lirisa's Arrows: creates an endless supply of life-mana arrows/bolts with stats based on your PM and bow skills. Does cold damage in addition to stats. Use SHAPE for choosing Slice/Pierce/Impact type. Held Mana.

Numbness: surrounds the targets hands with life energy causing intense numbing cold that causes the target to drop anything in their hands. Essentially a life-magic tingle. This would be great for empaths too, since it doesn't do damage.

Spook: dark nature spell. Amplifies the natural sounds of the area and increases sensitivity to movements in peripheral vision. Targets not in the caster's group must SvW or flee.

---

General
Why does life magic always do cold damage? Why not have it shift with the seasons? Cold in winter, electrical in spring/fall, and fire in summer, for example.

In general, some of our spells try to do too much to make then really useful. Spells that we have that are too weak need boosted power not more functions. Spells that do too much and aren't really useful need to be cut down to what is essential.

---

-pete

What Teeklin said is pretty dead on. As far as TM is concerned, making high level Rangers like Falk have to train TM from Rank 0 instead of grandfathering ranks was basically thumbing your nose at us. Even with the training "bonuses" that were given for low ranks it still takes alot of backtraining and I for one am tired of having to go backwards in order to go forward.


Gahlron Dragon'Claws
Ranger
Today my wife asked me when I was going to clean the patio. I said "Soon", to which she replied, "Who's version of soon? Yours or mine?
"Simutronics", I replied. I'll be sleeping on the couch for awhile.

>COTC will be on my short list if it becomes "held melee weapon/brawling".

THIS. Five of the seven weapons I can use at level are melee, including brawling. I'd love this spell if I could give a boost to the ones on the lower-end of the range.

>STW is something I "must do" in order to wear an arm worn shield. Casual observation doesn't show any increase in changes to hit or damage if I have it up or down. I'd like the ability to recast it while it's up.

I can 100% attest that there is a boost there. I am back training lxb and sb. It takes far less hits to kill with STW up. With longbow it takes about 1 less arrow.

>COMPOST - Frankly, I'd rather toss it. I have a Beseech to clean a room.

I use this spell pretty much every day, multiple times a day. The old impression that is useless is really not true. I can get all my buffs up in one casting with boosting the room mana. Use collect branch to gather fodder for the spell.

-pete

Heh. Sorry for all the posts...

I saw the idea for Ranger's leading groups in HUNT and think that would be awesome.

Based on the guild portfolio Rangers should be the ones to lead a group TO combat, but because of Paladin's orientation to lead groups IN combat, this would also make sense as something they could do.

Maybe this could be something like SLIPS where rangers get it at a certain skill of scouting and could teach it to pallies with it requiring more skill for a paladin to pull it off vs. a ranger.

-pete

>Do you collect piles while waiting for a spawn, and give the mana in a room a kick now and again? Does the boost it grow/stack?

The boost does stack, but there is a maximum that I have seen. Not a cap on the mana level, but the amount of the boost from that I have seen.

My power perception is not good enough, but I know folks with better can see the duration of the boost, so to do a true test of what it does, I'd need to be able to see the duration of the boost.

Depends on the hunting area since collect has a 30sec RT, so I usually do it at a safe area. I use cambrinth to maximize mana use. This whole process makes a nice breather to let skills absorb some field experience and to keep magic skills moving.

With powerfully glowing, I can bring it to flaring. With softly shining, I can bring it to blazing.

At flaring, I can get off: 60 mana EM, 54 mana STW, 54 mana HOL, 38 mana SOTT, and full stacked cast of SOP (about 10 min prep casts)

When I am backtraining TM, I can usually do collect without fear, so if I can't get the spawns in a good enough mana room (my harness regens in a decent mana room as fast as I can cast TM at usable mana), I'll collect branches, boost it, and beat down some critters.

For reference, 210 harness, 193 PM, 183 PP, 176 MD. No idea when duration starts to show, but the character I know who can see them has PP well over 250.

-pete

My take on spells:

Compost: Give it to the Empath Guild so they can replace their crummy raise mana spell. Turn our "Beseech the Wind to Clean" into a "Beseech Nature to Decay" giving smaller, shorter duration mana perks. If a ranger WANTS the increased power of compost, they can still memorize it from a spell scroll as we're both Life Mana guilds.

GRIZ: This could be an interesting spell if we could couple it with BS. By itself, Griz knocks back AND STRONGLY STUNS THE OPPONENT YOU'RE FACING (fix, PLEASE!!!). But if BS is up, Griz would become an AOE spell, knocking back all (and stun most/all based on amount of held mana?).

Forestwalker's Boon: Seems to be a big waste of a spell slot, if you have Nature's Canopy.

Earth Meld / Blend / Nature's Canopy: Umm, exactly how many stealth spells do we really need? Reduce it with one, possible two spells.

SOP: Fine...BUT a second tier spell above SOP might be something that, if a creature fails a skills check, prevents said creature from getting to melee range (this is what Steps of Lirisa was originally defined as).

STW, CAIS, SOTT, SPC: fine by me.

WS: Got mixed feelings on this one. There has been times when I've used it to forage herbs just above my normal foraging skills. With hunt, I don't need any enhanced scouting abilities. BUT a perception boost can be useful, too. I guess split perception and foraging boosts into separate spells?

BS: fine by me, but see notes for GRIZ above.

CS: fine by me.

WOTP: Again, another one of those one spells that spreads itself thin. The discipline boost is useful. I haven't run any formal tests, but I haven't noticed any real boost to disarm...and with companions in the state they're in, what use is enhanced animal lore?

COTC: fine with the ideas mentioned last night (bonus to melee weapon in hand), but as pole-ranged melee weapons need some love, I'd prefer the phrasing "bonus to the non-ranged weapon in hand." It's probably what was meant last night.

EC, DEV: ::puppy dog, Oliver Twist eyes:: Please sir, may I have some more?

BB: sorry to all you BB fans out there, but this spell is dead to me. Hate it. See suggestions for GRIZ/BS above and get rid of this abomination.

SW: Now that I understand how it's was SUPPOSED to work, I don't hate it as bad. Looking forward to the fix.

HB: Lower tier or more effect.

AF: New design sounds cool, so get working!!!

POS: I like the idea of this being more generic and moved to the fourth tier TM tree.

HOL: Part of me says dump the spell entirely due to the skinning rewrite. Another part says this would be the perfect thing that keeps rangers as the masters of skinning (with HOL up, skinning normal is the same as skinning arranged). The loading of multiple arrows should be dealt with in some other fashion...another spell perhaps.

New Spells/Beseaches:

Low Priority: As necromancy is an affront to the natural order of things, I would like to see a spell that could be cast on wood-based weapons (bow/arrows/staves/slings/rocks/etc) that would do "Life" damage to corporeal undead. I realize this might be getting too close to the Cleric Guild turf, but I'm seeing it more of a reaction from Nature rather than the Thirteen.

Medium Priority: I'd like to see a spell where arrows have...hmm, a return quality. That is, if an arrow falls to the ground, it returns to the quiver. If the arrow lodges into a critter, it periodically attempts to return to the quiver, possibly causing increased damage on each attempt. It's probably beyond the mechanics of the game (for example, with two archers in a room, who owns what arrow?), but it'd be nifty keen. Maybe with the mech lore breakup, we could uniquely mark our arrows... This could be the spell that allows us to dual load, as well. Sort of an "animate arrow" spell.

Shendorian

>>As I've said and will say again, in Zeyurn and Armifer's perfect world Rangers would be Armor tert, Magic secondary. It's not, and we make do with what we have.

But feel free to change it.

5 branches will cap compost, but 45 fish + bits won't? That seems... odd and highly unintuitive. I'm pretty sure the fish remains are more effective in my garden out back than the branches I throw back there.

And it's my luck I was back training in vines where of course you can't forage for branches (or anything else) in the middle of a forest. Yes, I bugged it (again)

The pile of branches from a collection worked great though! I may like the spell soon :)

Good to know about companions and beseeches.

Thanks for the feedback. I have to wonder, however, why we got a spell like Awaken Forest which right now summons a more-or-less at level spawn that attacks and yet a companion that does so is imbalancing, especially considering the huge amount of time that goes into training a companion versus casting awaken forest (and the fact that when the spawn dies I can just throw up another one). But I understand what you're saying of course.

>>I rely on (mostly foraged) herbs for about 99% of my healing due to impatience finding an empath

In that respect, foraging is useful. However, when you hit ~225 ranks you will be able to find everything there is and at that point every new rank becomes 100% pointless. Yeah, you could spend 1000 hours and get 500 foraging and forage up a jadice flower with 2 extra parts to it, or with 1 extra pulse per bite...or you could just spend an extra 4 seconds and forage 2 flowers and take 2 bites at 225. For the survival skill that takes (by FAR) the longest to train, that's really not a huge incentive to train it. I find that most people who have a lot of ranks in this just don't have the motivation or knowledge to write a good combat script.

>>I'm sure I'm against the grain, but I might actually prefer to temporarily summon the help of nature instead of a permanent companion. It strikes me as an ever greater display of affiliation with nature that I can charm the little blue bird to find someone for me, or the raccoon to retrieve an herb, a wolf to guard a friend, or a bear to attack a foe... on a whim.

For a while they had the TAME ability on deck, which was the ability to use animal lore, scholarship, and charisma to temporarily pacify and direct a creature. Things like having it attack, or having it call out to increase gen in a room, etc.

There was also a lead in to this ability where you would sit in hiding and STUDY COUGAR ATTACK or DEFENSE and get a temporary bonus to your own skills based on AL.

I'm sure both have blown away in the wind at some point.

>>>>But feel free to change it.

>>Please No. I love having survival,armor, and weapons as the top 3.

There's no need to derail the thread in this way. Changing skillsets is not in the cards.

-Armifer
<Kvlt> Step 1: Want stuff! Step 2: Be ambitious! Step 3: Believe in the ability of your fellow man to carry you to heights you are too incompetent to reach alone.

I will be happy to skip companions entirely in exchange for the ability to shapeshift into an animal and fight with its abilities.

What are the chances of something like that happening?

Z,

Can you come be on the Lore team for a year?

Thx,
GENT

>>when it comes to herbs 100 ranks of stealing >> 2000 ranks of foraging.

This is an excellent point, and one I hadn't considered. I'm not even sure what a solution is.

You could say the same of armor/weapons, except that tanned/forged are better. The parallel solution would be to make foraged herbs (with higher levels of foraging) be more effective than store bought.

Among other things, that would mean fixing substances so you can actually forage for everything you need (some substances can only be purchased, or come pre-made in potion form with no way to make them).

Even then I'm not sure it would work because taking twice as many of a lower power herb is still effective. Assuming you heal during your post-combat down time, it's not a big deal.

I wouldn't think you could make foraged herbs so insanely effective that it approaches the point where you diminish the need of empaths. Though, it's been a month since I've seen an empath and I'm perfectly fine (er, thanks to a few deaths)

You could make herbs non-stealable, but that seems lousy and inconsistent.

In summary, I don't have a good solution :)

>>>Would it be a trade-off to have any combat ability in a companion vs. other utility abilities or would combat be essentially a fluff ability by the skill levels needed to have a combat-capable companion?<

>Well no, but do you really want the malchata to one shot your companion while you hunt and have to go get and retrain a companion? That just sounds annoying to me.

This is a good point. I guess I wasn't envisioning dragging some poor wolf into a fight with some mythical beast of great power.

OTOH, that would make corpse dragging pretty useless, now wouldn't it? :-D So yeah. I'd rather have companions ignore and be ignured in combat rather than having good utility abilities and being vulnerable to death when we'd need them.

I do like the idea of shapeshifting. Has the theory of ranger companions been solidified at this point? Another approach would be to just copy the familiar system and make companions animal spirits of nature that we summon through a beseech. This would explain their non-combative nature and allow for some more flexibility in their utility as well as explaining their ability travel great distances, etc.

-pete