Having a set of skills available if you only get favors from the dark aspects of Immortals, allows you more freedom to do naughty things. I'm certain other skills at the opposite spectrum would become weakened/made unavailable for doing thus.

You call upon your dark gods to smite your enemy. The x shutters for a moment, blinking in confusion, before dropping dead, its heart stopped.

>>I recommend you take the time and read the Lore that is available

Silly goose, I did read that lore. That's a Dark Paladin in theme, i'm suggesting a Dark Paladin in mechanics, which includes both a similarity and difference in skills.

If a Paladin's soul is effected by his actions and the choices as one who is a beacon for the Immortals, why would a Paladin lose soul for stealing if he worshiped Damaris, patron of thieves? I'm talking about an expansion of type and ability based on the favors he has incrued from specific immortals. Such and such perks and skills would be unlocked based on the number of favors accrued from a specific immortal, Furthermore, there would be an inability to obtain the favor of other immortals based on what end of the spectrum they are/what they represent.

If you worship a dark aspect, you couldn't get the light, etc. If you had x amount favors from Damaris you wouldn't be able to get favors from Chadatru, or another calcuable (sp) opposite spectrum analysis.

There could be other associating perks with this method. If you had 50 favors from Meraud you might get a boost to your magic skills, if you had 50 favors from Tasmine, perhaps a boost to some alchemy and outfitting skills (going off the lores speaking of her domestic skills). If you had 50 favors with Truffenyi, a stat boost (God of mortal man, mercy, and forgiveness, his blessings are invaluable in resurrections and the granting of health, stamina, strength, and magical power). Of course I don't know how easy or hard it is to get 50 favors at higher ranks, certainly this could be a higher threshold for some and lower for others. You could get the stats perks of multiple immortals as well, but as i mentioned before some of them you couldn't mix. This includes specific bonuses if you got the favors from the light/dark aspects.

Go from there. THIS IS JUST A SUGGESTION. THIS IS JUST A SUGGESTION.

Change it to increased stealth ability rather than being able to steal without soul decay, then.

More so, as it says on the descriptive page for Paladin

>>A Paladin's soul is awoken by the Immortals when they call him to duty.

I would imagine, for the sake of the official lore that sits on the description page, that he IS A BEACON FOR THE IMMORTALS because HE/she WAS CALLED UPON BY THE IMMORTALS. Unless i'm reading it wrong. More so, this fits greatly into the idea that they get different benefits based on the number of favor they have at any time for a specific deity.

Go from there.




When responding to something, make sure you have the facts. Otherwise you are just wasting time. -sig-

(Note: This reflects some of the lore I'm working on, so it may not 100% match what you've seen in the game in the past so take it with a canonical grain of salt at this time.)

The Paladin's unique powers come from their Sanctified Soul, which is created during a ritual performed when you join the Guild - the details of which are a closely guarded secret. On top of this the Paladin is a magician who uses holy magic, and sometimes these two systems interact (The Sanctified Soul is the Paladin's Confound.)

The Paladin's powers are not granted by the Immortals, therefor a Paladin does not fall because they fail the Immortals. They fall because they fail to live up to their Code.

Of course, the Paladin Guild and the Paladin Code are closely associated with the Immortals, but this is a social construct. Granted, the distinction I'm drawing here isn't really relevant as the Paladin Guild stands today.

-Raesh

"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things

My mind always hurts when I read what an official writes of the lore vs how the lore currently is. One says its through a guild sanctioned ritual the other says its an awakening by the Immortals themselves, etc.

I can AND do, however, respect it better when they say the lore is in the process of being rewritten.

What I do is merely make conjecture and observation on the current state of things, not on how they will be.







When responding to something, make sure you have the facts. Otherwise you are just wasting time. -sig-

>>There's also a difference between what is canonically, behind-the-scenes true and what is presented as true from various sources, especially IC ones. Even GMs have been known to misdirect.

.. interesting. o.o







When responding to something, make sure you have the facts. Otherwise you are just wasting time. -sig-

There has been a fair bit of stuff over the years that hints to the Paladin Council obfuscating the truth from the guild as a whole. Something to bear in mind as well.

Samsaren

The Paladin Guild as we understand it now is a political entity backed up by a specific covenant with (some of) the Immortals. Those two features may or may not be as in sync as they could be.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino

>>I was always under the impression that it was the later as well, that a Paladin was someone who received a calling from a specific immortal, and the Guild was created as a conclave for such like individuals.

[Citation Needed]

More in relation to how this is the "literal" thing that happened and not a nice story Paladins tell that others could also tell about why they became Barbarians or Thieves or etc.

I've always been under the impression that Paladins generally don't have an explicit pact with an Immortal (like Clerics could theoretically have), and that was in the late 90s, early 00s.

>>We think we know pretty well for certain that the individual calling is how Paladins gained their power prior to the guild's existence.

I thought the first paladins got their powers from whatever "The Bonding" was, which is related to Syal's death.

---

Uzmam! The Chairman will NOT be pleased to know you're trying to build outside of approved zones. I'd hate for you to be charged the taxes needed to have this place re-zoned. Head for the manor if you're feeling creative.

Prior to the Bonding, there were no Paladins as we understand them now. There could've been Paladin-like people dotted through history, but the lineage PCs know about doesn't extended that far back.

-Armifer
"Perinthia's astronomers are faced with a difficult choice. Either they must admit that all their calculations were wrong ... or else they must reveal that the order of the gods is reflected exactly in the city of monsters." - Italo Calvino

https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Oane_Lecture_1

I suppose I was projecting my own ideas by the specific gods bit, but the relevant passage:

>>Oane says, "People have been called to become paladins for as long as history can remember, but these were people here and there. There was nothing drawing those individuals together as a whole."

This is before he gets into talking about the Seven (which includes Syal) and thus is talking about a time before the bonding (whatever that was).

>>I would imagine, for the sake of the official lore that sits on the description page, that he IS A BEACON FOR THE IMMORTALS because HE/she WAS CALLED UPON BY THE IMMORTALS.

There's a lot of descriptions and lore floating around both in game and out over the last two decades. Not all of it was crafted with the same vision and internal consistency.

>>My mind always hurts when I read what an official writes of the lore vs how the lore currently is.

If it's coming from a Game Master, it should be considered official. I only flagged my comments earlier in the thread as not yet canonical because minor details might change as it translates from a proposal to actual implementation.

>>One says its through a guild sanctioned ritual the other says its an awakening by the Immortals themselves, etc.

These don't have to be mutually exclusive. Most Paladins would tell you the Immortals are deeply involved in the bonding ritual and that the Immortals called them to the Guild to undergo the ritual in the first place.

>>What I do is merely make conjecture and observation on the current state of things, not on how they will be.

The lore isn't really changing or being retconned, it's just being better detailed and documented internally so we can present more of it externally. This is a continual process in a living game.

>>There's also a difference between what is canonically, behind-the-scenes true and what is presented as true from various sources, especially IC ones.

This is absolutely true. There's some secret history floating around that it kills me I can't divulge and I was kicking myself for not figuring out as a player.

>>I was always under the impression that it was the later as well, that a Paladin was someone who received a calling from a specific immortal, and the Guild was created as a conclave for such like individuals.

You might want to read this:

https://elanthipedia.play.net/mediawiki/index.php/Syal

>>We think we know pretty well for certain that the individual calling is how Paladins gained their power prior to the guild's existence.

It's worth noting that the classical fantasy archetype of the Paladin as a heavily armored holy warrior who wields holy magic also describes many members of the Cleric guild, so there's certainly been holy warriors before there was a Paladin Guild. (This has actually been a development problem for the Paladin guild for ages, Clerics drink their milkshake all the time.)

-Raesh

"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things

Probably a little ignorant, but, in any case, I'm still always going to see clerics like this guy: http://img02.deviantart.net/80c9/i/2011/344/b/2/cleric_by_yefumm-d4io1n1.jpg and paladins like these people: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/14/28/91/1428918f5b6098490baa1ae06e96face.jpg and http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/diablo/images/e/eb/Crusader-cncpt4.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140625085514

Similarly, I'll always see barbs like this dude: http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/diablo/images/f/fd/Barbarian_medium.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080825214538 even if they start wearing plate and wielding magic.

>>(This has actually been a development problem for the Paladin guild for ages, Clerics drink their milkshake all the time.)

So I guess the real challenge for GMs is how to use said milkshake and bring more boys to the yard.

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.

>>Not that its pertinent to the conversation but. I envision this as a Moon Mage, once Raesh lets us make / wear and TKS multiple Yavash moonblades. Hint, hint.

Come on, don't you know me well enough that you should be trying to tempt me with something more like this:

http://i1.wp.com/www.tor.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/mistborn-marc-simonetti-brazil-edition.jpg?fit=904%2C%209999&crop=0%2C0%2C100%2C960px

-Raesh

"It was wise enough to know itself, and brave enough to BE itself, and wild enough to change itself while somehow staying altogether true." ― The Slow Regard of Silent Things

>>Come on, don't you know me well enough that you should be trying to tempt me with something more like this:

If you ever need tempting ideas, you can wander through the Crusader class in D3 and DR-ify pretty much any of that, just sayin'

Samsaren

Given the reeeally funny "gotcha" around the cause for the Bonding I kinda wonder how many changes are being made to that particular slice of it or whether you're leaving that particular bit intact.

---

Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com

"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs

Uhhh the root reason the Bonding was done, what exactly was bonded, and why (I think this was directly related) Paladins actually see black in their mana.

I'm avoiding saying it outright because a) I might be a stupid incorrect jackass and b) I like seeing people figure stuff out on their own.

---

Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com

"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs

Stuff like that is why I refuse to bother with lore in DR. I'm not going to travel the world looking for libraries with hard to use books, or guess at what I'm supposed to say to an NPC halfway across the world.

In my dr, there's provinces whose governments are silly, there are wars that we dont win, there's gods who I get an orb from, and there used to be some guild events. Aside from that I don't bother with lore because its not one of those things that has ever grabbed me. I've never had a reason or desire to bother finding anything. I'm sure there's some cool stuff out there, but ive never cared to bother with guild lore, especially with any of my paladins.

When I started DR, Elec was a paladin and I got tired of having a black soul all the time, or melting my hands off with expensive soul stones, or blowing my chest out on the arch. I had some 4 hour rt or something stupid while repenting for stealing at there keep. When I found there was no real option for being a dark paladin, I went thief and never looked back. I mean even now everything paladin screams rutilor, chadtru, or the third light one. Variety is what makes the world go round. Variety... spices and all that...

I will say I read about those Y'shai things recently. Those were cool. I want to fight them. But that's about the only lore ive delved into recently.

Monster Elec

You hear the distant echo of a savage Horde snarling in barbaric disapproval of your deeds.

Lore is one of those things you get out of what you put into it. You work for it just like you do anything else in the game and if you don't care about it then oh well? Nobody makes you do it.

There have been surprisingly few serious retcons with core lore concepts over the past several years to be honest. The biggest I can think of is the whole kerfluffle around Sorcery.

---

Thayet
@thayelf // http://thayette.tumblr.com

"But you must know that if corruption is powerful enough, it's not corruption at all — it's law. Unspoken, unwritten, but law." — Robert Jackson Bennett, City of Stairs