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Seems things will be changing with Everything 3.0, but in the meantime how does a Paladin go about training stealth without any kind of Soul hits. As I understand it you can't attack from hiding, and you can't approach from hiding, so do you just hide/unhide repeatedly?
REGIMOS
KAELRX
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 11:30 AM CST
I suppose, not sure how great that'll teach though. I'm sure this is probably intentional when it comes to a Paladin training stealth.
AMONAMARTH
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 12:01 PM CST
> As I understand it you can't attack from hiding
If the attack goes through while you're still hidden, that's true.
If the attack goes through while you're still hidden, that's true.
PRAXIS
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 12:28 PM CST
<<As I understand it you can't attack from hiding, and you can't approach from hiding, so do you just hide/unhide repeatedly?
You can't reset the stealth timers with attack, but paladins are tert, so it doesn't matter much, you can absolutely ML hiding and stalking in a swarmy room. The more critters you successfully hide/stalk on, the easier it is to lock.
You can approach from hiding. Advance, then hide. Do not hide, then advance. After you hide, stalk while you close to melee. You can 'unhide' and 'stop stalk' without Roundtime, so macro or script it.
Best bet is to always use hunt. You will be gifted a pile of free 'stealth' ranks when hiding and stalking are combined.
Remove that monster shield you are probably wearing and use a small arm-worn one or remove all your armor if you're having trouble. Cloth and Bone are super easy to hide in.
Undead teach better, IMO. Discipline supposedly helps; Marshal's Order spell does not seem to do much.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
You can't reset the stealth timers with attack, but paladins are tert, so it doesn't matter much, you can absolutely ML hiding and stalking in a swarmy room. The more critters you successfully hide/stalk on, the easier it is to lock.
You can approach from hiding. Advance, then hide. Do not hide, then advance. After you hide, stalk while you close to melee. You can 'unhide' and 'stop stalk' without Roundtime, so macro or script it.
Best bet is to always use hunt. You will be gifted a pile of free 'stealth' ranks when hiding and stalking are combined.
Remove that monster shield you are probably wearing and use a small arm-worn one or remove all your armor if you're having trouble. Cloth and Bone are super easy to hide in.
Undead teach better, IMO. Discipline supposedly helps; Marshal's Order spell does not seem to do much.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 12:31 PM CST
>>You can approach from hiding. Advance, then hide. Do not hide, then advance.
Although keep in mind that this is bug abuse, and if you get caught by someone who cares, you might get a rather nasty soul hit for trying to sneak around the system.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
Although keep in mind that this is bug abuse, and if you get caught by someone who cares, you might get a rather nasty soul hit for trying to sneak around the system.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
GRIM45
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 12:35 PM CST
>>Although keep in mind that this is bug abuse, and if you get caught by someone who cares, you might get a rather nasty soul hit for trying to sneak around the system.
[Citation Please]
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
[Citation Please]
TG, TG, GL, et al.
Also: Moo.
PRAXIS
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 12:36 PM CST
<<Although keep in mind that this is bug abuse, and if you get caught by someone who cares, you might get a rather nasty soul hit for trying to sneak around the system.
[needs citation]
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
[needs citation]
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
MOOK1
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 12:41 PM CST
My two cents: Its probably one of those things that techically is mech abuse, but since the GMs understand that first strike system has a certain level of suckage and that it doesn't really hurt anyone, they let it slide.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 12:43 PM CST
Advancing while hiding causes soul loss.
Tricking the system into allowing you to advance while hiding by advancing THEN hiding as opposed to hiding THEN advancing is a pretty clear cut case of bug abuse.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
Tricking the system into allowing you to advance while hiding by advancing THEN hiding as opposed to hiding THEN advancing is a pretty clear cut case of bug abuse.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
PRAXIS
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 01:06 PM CST
So its your opinion, and not really a documented mech abuse condition? Honestly, first I've ever heard about it.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
AMONAMARTH
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 01:25 PM CST
And using thrown weapons to train it is just a feature and not a bug.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 01:39 PM CST
>>So its your opinion, and not really a documented mech abuse condition?
Pretty sure we were told it was bug abuse in like, 2000 or something.
I'd look in the forum archives, but you know.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
Pretty sure we were told it was bug abuse in like, 2000 or something.
I'd look in the forum archives, but you know.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
PRAXIS
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 02:01 PM CST
<<Pretty sure we were told it was bug abuse in like, 2000 or something.
I think there was a semi-recent change to advance (and retreat) while hiding that nerfed exp anyways.
Using hide, stalk, unhide, stop stalk, attack and repeat work just as well. And only 2 of those have RT for now which you can get down to 5 secs total, afaict.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
I think there was a semi-recent change to advance (and retreat) while hiding that nerfed exp anyways.
Using hide, stalk, unhide, stop stalk, attack and repeat work just as well. And only 2 of those have RT for now which you can get down to 5 secs total, afaict.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
NEELD
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 03:05 PM CST
I train hiding and stalking by hiding, stalking, unhide, attack...rinse and repeat. To my knowledge, none of the techniques used by paladins to train hiding (i.e. hide, unhide, advance, hide, etcetera) is bug abuse.
Madigan
Madigan
FRIEDR
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 04:51 PM CST
I cant imagine advancing before hiding is mech abuse as its the most logical way to train without even factoring in soul hit. Why would anyone, regardless of guild, wait for the RT of hiding to finish before beginning to advance? Thats just asking for creatures to wander off.
BEVERAGEK
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 04:55 PM CST
>>Why would anyone, regardless of guild, wait for the RT of hiding to finish before beginning to advance? Thats just asking for creatures to wander off.
Repeated for emphasis.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
Repeated for emphasis.
__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 04:59 PM CST
>>I cant imagine advancing before hiding is mech abuse as its the most logical way to train without even factoring in soul hit.
Well, yes, if you don't factor in the part that makes the entire thing questionable and what IIRC made it bug abuse to begin with, it's not bug abuse at all.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
Well, yes, if you don't factor in the part that makes the entire thing questionable and what IIRC made it bug abuse to begin with, it's not bug abuse at all.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
DANFORDS2
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 05:08 PM CST
>Best bet is to always use hunt. You will be gifted a pile of free 'stealth' ranks when hiding and stalking are combined.
I thought the GMs were still out on whether or not Stalking would be combined or dumped into the Survival bonus bit pool for this exact reason.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
I thought the GMs were still out on whether or not Stalking would be combined or dumped into the Survival bonus bit pool for this exact reason.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
PRAXIS
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 06:57 PM CST
<<I thought the GMs were still out on whether or not Stalking would be combined or dumped into the Survival bonus bit pool for this exact reason.
IDK. Assuming they maintain consistency, one could potentially be gifted a pile of ranks. Same as LE|ME, or SB|LB|CB for example.
If they retcon weirdness because Paladins will take over the world based on stalk ranks... go go gadget bonus pool.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
IDK. Assuming they maintain consistency, one could potentially be gifted a pile of ranks. Same as LE|ME, or SB|LB|CB for example.
If they retcon weirdness because Paladins will take over the world based on stalk ranks... go go gadget bonus pool.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
DANFORDS2
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/18/2011 09:06 PM CST
>because Paladins will take over the world based on stalk ranks
To be clear, it's not because of just Paladins. I don't train hiding on my WM, but my stalking is up there with the rest of my combats.
>Assuming they maintain consistency, one could potentially be gifted a pile of ranks. Same as LE|ME, or SB|LB|CB for example
This was specifically addressed in the Experience System folder, because Stalking's best way to train has nothing to do with stealth they were considering adding it to the bonus pool and just changing the name of Hiding to Stealth. I'm not sure if they ever confirmed a decision on this, however.
Also, you're not really gaining ranks. You would be able to use a LE better if you were ME primary, but you won't be able to use a ME any better. So you might gain effectiveness with some weapons (which isn't terribly useful until a feat or stunt system comes out that uses different types of weapons within a class), but you won't gain any new effectiveness beyond what you see now.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
To be clear, it's not because of just Paladins. I don't train hiding on my WM, but my stalking is up there with the rest of my combats.
>Assuming they maintain consistency, one could potentially be gifted a pile of ranks. Same as LE|ME, or SB|LB|CB for example
This was specifically addressed in the Experience System folder, because Stalking's best way to train has nothing to do with stealth they were considering adding it to the bonus pool and just changing the name of Hiding to Stealth. I'm not sure if they ever confirmed a decision on this, however.
Also, you're not really gaining ranks. You would be able to use a LE better if you were ME primary, but you won't be able to use a ME any better. So you might gain effectiveness with some weapons (which isn't terribly useful until a feat or stunt system comes out that uses different types of weapons within a class), but you won't gain any new effectiveness beyond what you see now.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
PRAXIS
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 05:10 AM CST
<Opieus
So hiding will becomes 'stealth', and stalking will become survival pool bits under plan b?
Sounds reasonable and logical, if so.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
So hiding will becomes 'stealth', and stalking will become survival pool bits under plan b?
Sounds reasonable and logical, if so.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
DANFORDS2
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 12:11 PM CST
>So hiding will becomes 'stealth', and stalking will become survival pool bits under plan b?
Yeah. I don't recall seeing a post about their final decision, but they were still considering whether or not to go with this when I last heard about it.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Yeah. I don't recall seeing a post about their final decision, but they were still considering whether or not to go with this when I last heard about it.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
VEE-REX
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 04:18 PM CST
>>I cant imagine advancing before hiding is mech abuse as its the most logical way to train without even factoring in soul hit.
If something is not meant to happen, or not meant to be used in a particular way, then it is mech abuse. I'm not sure why people have trouble understanding this.
If a Paladin is not meant to advance on something while hidden without a soul hit... then YES, it is mech abuse if you find another way around the soul hit, regardless of how many other guilds do something that way. If something is prevented generally (i.e applying to all guilds), and you find a way around the penalty, it's mech abuse.
A GM doesn't necessarily have to swoop down and smack the back of your hand for you to know. If it gets out of hand then I guess that's when they'll say something or fix it. This applied to stalking learning. This applied to abusing the mechanic to learn brawling fast. This applied to the offhand skill. This applied to certain spells that I don't want to name right now. GMs can be lenient, but certain bug/mech abuse will get them right on your tail, such as item duplication.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
If something is not meant to happen, or not meant to be used in a particular way, then it is mech abuse. I'm not sure why people have trouble understanding this.
If a Paladin is not meant to advance on something while hidden without a soul hit... then YES, it is mech abuse if you find another way around the soul hit, regardless of how many other guilds do something that way. If something is prevented generally (i.e applying to all guilds), and you find a way around the penalty, it's mech abuse.
A GM doesn't necessarily have to swoop down and smack the back of your hand for you to know. If it gets out of hand then I guess that's when they'll say something or fix it. This applied to stalking learning. This applied to abusing the mechanic to learn brawling fast. This applied to the offhand skill. This applied to certain spells that I don't want to name right now. GMs can be lenient, but certain bug/mech abuse will get them right on your tail, such as item duplication.
Individuals, families, countries, continents are destroyed at the heavy hand of Vinjince.
-GM Abasha
DANFORDS2
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 05:02 PM CST
>If a Paladin is not meant to advance on something while hidden without a soul hit
Perhaps we disagree with this statement. Beginning to advance while hidden is a soul hit, because it's dishonorable to iniate combat with someone who is unaware. Beginning to advance out of hiding alerts them to your intention of injurying them, while hiding afterwards merely protects you from ranged attacks until you close to your desired range.
Honestly, I don't train hiding or stalking on my Paladin, so I really have no idea why a soul hit takes place for stealth actions. So I may be way off base, but that's just why I wouldn't call it mech abuse to learn stalking in that manner.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Perhaps we disagree with this statement. Beginning to advance while hidden is a soul hit, because it's dishonorable to iniate combat with someone who is unaware. Beginning to advance out of hiding alerts them to your intention of injurying them, while hiding afterwards merely protects you from ranged attacks until you close to your desired range.
Honestly, I don't train hiding or stalking on my Paladin, so I really have no idea why a soul hit takes place for stealth actions. So I may be way off base, but that's just why I wouldn't call it mech abuse to learn stalking in that manner.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
WOODHAMR3
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 05:11 PM CST
I think it's pretty well known that this is a glitch that was never fixed.
Those who feel it isn't are just in denial.
-Mr. Glemm
Those who feel it isn't are just in denial.
-Mr. Glemm
DANFORDS2
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 05:14 PM CST
>I think it's pretty well known that this is a glitch that was never fixed.
Unless you can find a GM post that says it's a glitch, you can really only say it's widely assumed to be a glitch. Those who feel otherwise simply disagree with your opinion.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Unless you can find a GM post that says it's a glitch, you can really only say it's widely assumed to be a glitch. Those who feel otherwise simply disagree with your opinion.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
MOOK1
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 05:27 PM CST
<<This thread
Wow. Ostrich head in sand syndrome at its finest.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
Wow. Ostrich head in sand syndrome at its finest.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
WOODHAMR3
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 05:52 PM CST
<<Unless you can find a GM post that says it's a glitch, you can really only say it's widely assumed to be a glitch. Those who feel otherwise simply disagree with your opinion.>>
Ah. Glitches aren't glitches until a red post confirms it, no matter what common sense says.
IT'S WIDELY ASSUMED BY PEOPLE OF STRONG MORAL FIBER THAT THE MECHANIC ABUSE IN THIS THREAD IS CONSIDERED A GLITCH WHICH IS BEING ABUSED BY MECHANICS.
Please pay attention to the capital letters.
-Mr. Glemm
Ah. Glitches aren't glitches until a red post confirms it, no matter what common sense says.
IT'S WIDELY ASSUMED BY PEOPLE OF STRONG MORAL FIBER THAT THE MECHANIC ABUSE IN THIS THREAD IS CONSIDERED A GLITCH WHICH IS BEING ABUSED BY MECHANICS.
Please pay attention to the capital letters.
-Mr. Glemm
DEVAN
PRAXIS
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 06:22 PM CST
LOL. Still?
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
DR-ZEYURN
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 06:24 PM CST
It's basically a glitch that I don't care about fixing unless people responsible for Paladins say they want me to change it. So don't worry about doing it.
-Z
-Z
MOOK1
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 06:28 PM CST
<<It's basically a glitch that I don't care about fixing unless people responsible for Paladins say they want me to change it. So don't worry about doing it.
Imagine that. Who'd have guessed?
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
Imagine that. Who'd have guessed?
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
DANFORDS2
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 06:37 PM CST
>Who'd have guessed?
That it's not mech abuse, unlike what most of the people in this thread have been saying? Uh, yeah.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
That it's not mech abuse, unlike what most of the people in this thread have been saying? Uh, yeah.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
MOOK1
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 06:48 PM CST
/facepalm
Go ahead an read my first post in this thread. Its several pages back. Seriously.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
Go ahead an read my first post in this thread. Its several pages back. Seriously.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 06:51 PM CST
>>That it's not mech abuse, unlike what most of the people in this thread have been saying? Uh, yeah.
GM just said it was unintentional and a bug, but something he won't fix unless a Paladin GM asks.
You're free to translate that to "do it if you want", but I think it's safe to say that GM-law isn't set in stone and you're better off not doing it.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
GM just said it was unintentional and a bug, but something he won't fix unless a Paladin GM asks.
You're free to translate that to "do it if you want", but I think it's safe to say that GM-law isn't set in stone and you're better off not doing it.
"We're not "out to get you," we're here to enhance your playing experience with extreme prejudice.," DR-ARMIFER
DANFORDS2
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 06:55 PM CST
>Go ahead an read my first post in this thread. Its several pages back. Seriously.
Read it. Just because it is a glitch doesn't make it technically mech abuse. Can a glitch be mech abuse? Yes. Is every glitch in the game mech abuse? No.
>You're free to translate that to "do it if you want",
Actually, I was translating the last sentence as do it if you want. I'll quote it for you again.
>So don't worry about doing it.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
Read it. Just because it is a glitch doesn't make it technically mech abuse. Can a glitch be mech abuse? Yes. Is every glitch in the game mech abuse? No.
>You're free to translate that to "do it if you want",
Actually, I was translating the last sentence as do it if you want. I'll quote it for you again.
>So don't worry about doing it.
Elemental Lord Opieus, Expert Warrior Mage of Elanthia
"For a bunch of radical empiricists, the Philosophers' system relies on a whole lot of faith." ~Armifer
MOOK1
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 06:57 PM CST
Actually, TEVESHSZAT, he did explicitly say do it if you want.
Both sides of this 'debate' are hung up on the details of their side without stepping back and looking at the whole picture. I.e. both sides are right. It is technically mech abuse, and yes, you can do it without repercussions.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
Both sides of this 'debate' are hung up on the details of their side without stepping back and looking at the whole picture. I.e. both sides are right. It is technically mech abuse, and yes, you can do it without repercussions.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
WOODHAMR3
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 06:58 PM CST
MOOK1
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 07:02 PM CST
<<Glemm
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
That was the phrase I was trying to come up with, but couldn't. Thank you.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
Ding ding ding! We have a winner!
That was the phrase I was trying to come up with, but couldn't. Thank you.
-Evran
"RAGE + TEAR + EYE + RESO + HARM + DRUM + MISD + PRIDE + Your choice of Cyclic + AoE stun/knockdown as needed without losing buffs = OMG! I just crapped my pants!" -Evran
PRAXIS
Re: Paladins and Stealth
01/19/2011 07:05 PM CST
These parental types with high fiber are just looking out for you.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
Mistrust is our only defense against betrayal.
