"Could do quests required for circling where the necromancer has to do a lab practical to show their progress in the arts."

Coding heavy yes

but I love this idea.


-Serc

"We, the disenfranchised men and women of Elanthia do, by the publishing of this accord, cast off the oppressive yoke of all law and nations and choose for ourselves a path of loyalty unto ourselves"

I don't consider my character evil or deranged.. yet..

He's self-centred and easily led and frankly a bit of a coward, the only reason he went to the monk, is because he was infatuated with a young necro (not that he knew she was), who suggested that before he join a guild, he should work for the monks to gain some coin.

He only joined because he was scared of what would happen to him if he didn't.

He's lost and confused and doesn't know where to turn for help. What effect this will have on him is yet to be seen.

Shockingly, different people may respond to the same experience in different ways.

---

Rev. Reene

<Szrael> Should have just gone for gorbesh again
<Szrael> And released the pirate guild or something
<Szrael> Tote would be an okay pirate

>The fact that people choose to hunt louts, swains, thugs etc. (and arguably goblins or orcs, depending on how far you want to take it) simply indicates that people either do not fully understand what their character is doing

I'll be honest, I didn't understand what the heck a swain was for a long time, OoCly.

Having said that, I will shamelessly use the self-defense (or defense of others) argument if anyone tries to accuse my character of being a sociopath for popping a few louts right in front of the guild.

Anything 'wild' is fair game IMO, and that includes intelligent things that also attack "us" occasionally like goblins, orcs and dragon priests.

It shouldn't be MUCH different for any somewhat rational Necro to make pretty much the same distinction. It shouldn't be more morally wrong to kill a wolf to study life than to steal his skin.

~ Kougen

Moon Mages: Ripping reality a new one since 586 BL

>I'm uncertain if we'll do it (we probably won't), but the idea was to make it so Necromancers must practice Thanatology on a member of the Eleven Races for every rank of Thanatology. It could be a lout for all I care, just the requirement that the Necromancer "bring his knowledge home" by murdering and desecrating a man.

I'll just hide outside the Tender Foot Inn and get them as they come out.

Honestly, with regards to why killing goblins and orcs is okay, I'm willing to just suspend my disbelief in the fantasy because any attempts to rationalize it treads dangerously close to bringing out the reasons used in real life history that led to all sorts of ethnic conflicts.

<<I'm uncertain if we'll do it (we probably won't), but the idea was to make it so Necromancers must practice Thanatology on a member of the Eleven Races for every rank of Thanatology. It could be a lout for all I care, just the requirement that the Necromancer "bring his knowledge home" by murdering and desecrating a man.>>

won't this be part of some sort of quest? <risen? lichdom??> at least that is what i hypothesized from that MM vision that saw someone killing someone else that was on a table of their same gander and race when they were asked "the question is is she worth your life? or somesuch? Or was this something different?

---

"If Elanthia can survive putting a dragon inside of its molten core, I think it can survive a few black-robed magicians sitting on Gibbet Hill"-<parshift>

If someone didn't die the test clearly wasn't good enough.

My scientific method is beyond reproach.

---

Rev. Reene

<Szrael> Should have just gone for gorbesh again
<Szrael> And released the pirate guild or something
<Szrael> Tote would be an okay pirate

inv> a sturdy backpack shabbily embroidered with a madman's laboratory pattern in off-white thread,

>look at my back
The highly cluttered space exhibits many a gruesome artifact stored in the numerous jars upon the cracked and slanted shelves surrounding the main workstation. Plopped on top of a clutch of crudely marked anatomy charts, a wrinkly brain impaled with pins sits next to a large scalpel, clearly the insane scientist's current project. A stuffed arbelog in one corner wears a checked gingham dress and bonnet, the display more than overtly contributing to the bizarre scene.

embroidery pattern acquired in trader tent at hallow's fest. very appropriate for a mad scientist, no?

---

"If Elanthia can survive putting a dragon inside of its molten core, I think it can survive a few black-robed magicians sitting on Gibbet Hill"-<parshift>

additionally, there is always the following to think about.

Whereas necros do mutilate corpses, the "opposing side" mutilates those still living in the name of the gods.

Did you get a good look at what the inquisition did to Xerasyth?

they partially skinned him. Alive.
They castrated him <thats what tail removal does to a s'kra mur> alive.
They took out one of his eyes. Again, while alive.

And i doubt very much if they had an empath on hand to Nissa's bind <anesthize> him during the procedures.

---

"If Elanthia can survive putting a dragon inside of its molten core, I think it can survive a few black-robed magicians sitting on Gibbet Hill"-<parshift>

As far as the "morality" of hunting and killing the humanoid mobs such as louts, swains, thugs, pirates, goblins, orcs, ogres, etcetera, I've always just had my characters operate under an assumed "You Keep What You Kill" bounty issued by the provincial governments. The authorities have deemed said societies and individuals as nuisances and unlawful elements and issued a standing invitation to anybody willing (adventurers) to handle the problem as they see fit. Anything you can scavenge is yours to keep.

I understand that there have not been any events or official notices that say this is the case, but it does seem like a logical explanation for the behavior of adventurers at large. When I hunted Undershard with my thief, he was "helping keep the local gang problem in check." The same line of logic could easily be applied to Bawdy Swains (who will drunkenly stumble onto the streets and savagely murder sprite hunters in their stupor) as well as Orcs and Goblins. (Don't ask me WHY Aesry want's the Snow Goblins removed from their frozen caves, they just apparently do, heh)

I would also like to point out that being a sociopath is not in fact "I killz all and kick puppies and burn kittens" rather "Sociopaths are interested only in their personal needs and desires, without concern for the effects of their behavior on others." In short, sociopaths don't feel any obligation to societal norms and have do not form what are considered "normal" attachments to others. That's why we have no problem what so ever picking apart the corpse of Aunt Bettie as opposed to burying it. After all, she's dead, and we're still pursuing the Great Work.

>Your character is -always- seeing what was in that room, day in and day out... it's always there, lurking at the edge of your sight.

Should code up some random messaging for necromancers that occasionally has something moving in the edges of their vision. Or have a random additional message reflecting the nightmare they live in when they perc.

-pete

>heh, i'll never quite look at power perception the same. :-)

Imagine how much "fun" powerwalking is for a necro?

-pete

It really isn't that bad for Moon Mages. Disrupting Taisgath seemed like a bad thing to them.

Necromancers, on the other hand, either didn't know quite what they were getting into or are too stupid to care. Perhaps it's the knowledge that there is no backsies, that they have perhaps done something very bad with no way to take it back, that inspires such fanaticism for transcendence.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>> It really isn't that bad for Moon Mages. Disrupting Taisgath seemed like a bad thing to them.

Double-edged sword. Cael certainly wishes it would all go away from time to time, especially when she wakes up in a pool of her own blood with a small crowd of people huddled over her going "WHAT JUST HAPPENED?!"

>> Perhaps it's the knowledge that there is no backsies, that they have perhaps done something very bad with no way to take it back, that inspires such fanaticism for transcendence.

I definitely think if you do something like that most people will be inclined to try very hard to justify it and convince themselves it wasn't all for nothing.

I wonder how Redeemed deal with it.

---

Rev. Reene

<Szrael> Should have just gone for gorbesh again
<Szrael> And released the pirate guild or something
<Szrael> Tote would be an okay pirate

Moon mage craziness is invoked, for most anyways. You channel the webs of fate into you and they don't always show something bad. Although they can see some pretty crazy things.

Necromancers always have something evil, something dreadful in the corner of their senses tugging at them. The End of everything always tugs at their senses.


_______________________

You say, "I don't help your kind"
Necrobaby walks over and kicks you!
Necrobaby says, "Your more my kind than you are yours"

>>I would be all for this, but honestly the creature ladder is hard to fill out with just humanoids. Also tough to train skinning well enough on them, although we could just double hunt to take care of both I suppose.

Necromancers already kinda do at low levels, what with a LE requirement and a Than requirement that needs us to kill things quickly.

If anything like this were to be implemented, though, I'd want a ritual that makes members of the humanoid races skinnable. It'd make hunting, gaining Divine Outrage, and simply grossing people out with Tanning all the more likely.

What? You thought Elven Leather was because it was made by elves?

Joking aside, putting in the must be the 11 races kinda thing makes it very hard on lowbie necros to get any thanatology really done. Only serves to make it more difficult on the player then to drive home the "We are not nice people" aspect of the guild.

My comment on only being less sociopathic then warrior mages was more in jest than anything else.

_______________________

You say, "I don't help your kind"
Necrobaby walks over and kicks you!
Necrobaby says, "Your more my kind than you are yours"

11 races =/= humanoids.

Louts solves the issue for beginners although it floods the lout area with necros. But past that theres a big gap between louts and the next "11 races" creature.

Unless they meant humanoids which means its doable but still theres holes in the ladder. Walking to the moon mage guild would be like taking a stroll through Necros R' Us.


_______________________

You say, "I don't help your kind"
Necrobaby walks over and kicks you!
Necrobaby says, "Your more my kind than you are yours"

Aren't Gypsy Marauders human?

-pete