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Can I get a hint on the flare cantrip please?
I have general cantrip knowledge, and the fling cantrip. Also have a lot more scholarship than the recommended amount. Not in a sect.
As far as I know there's only one thing I'm supposed to do to get it, and it keeps giving me a clear failure message. Is this cantrip sected-only?
-- Player of Eyuve
ALEPH-ONE
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/08/2012 01:02 AM CDT
>>As far as I know there's only one thing I'm supposed to do to get it, and it keeps giving me a clear failure message. Is this cantrip sected-only?
General cantrip, not sect-related.
In my limited experience, the scholarship requirements are a requisite minimum for the possibility of obtaining a cantrip, not a conditional guarantee of success. I have failed a cantrip before, dozens and dozens and dozens of times, only to go back later with the same scholarship level and succeed on the second or third try.
Try until you get frustrated, then go back the next day.
General cantrip, not sect-related.
In my limited experience, the scholarship requirements are a requisite minimum for the possibility of obtaining a cantrip, not a conditional guarantee of success. I have failed a cantrip before, dozens and dozens and dozens of times, only to go back later with the same scholarship level and succeed on the second or third try.
Try until you get frustrated, then go back the next day.
DR-RAESH
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/08/2012 05:07 AM CDT
There is always a chance of failure. There did, however, use to be a bug where more skill actually made it more likely. I've fixed that quite awhile ago -- however if you persist in being unable to learn it when you believe you should be feel free to provide more info and I can take another peek.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/08/2012 05:45 AM CDT
>>I've fixed that quite awhile ago -- however if you persist in being unable to learn it when you believe you should be feel free to provide more info and I can take another peek.
I tried at least five times, probably more like ten, all failures. I was told it should take 40-50 scholarship, and I have several hundred ranks beyond that.
-- Player of Eyuve
I tried at least five times, probably more like ten, all failures. I was told it should take 40-50 scholarship, and I have several hundred ranks beyond that.
-- Player of Eyuve
DR-RAESH
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/08/2012 05:49 AM CDT
What are you calling a failure? I suppose that's a better question.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/08/2012 06:07 AM CDT
Err, assuming I'm allowed to post this?
>do the thing required
You strain your eyes slightly to study a section of the inscriptions that seem to waver slightly.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
However, you're unable to decipher any of the information.
-- Player of Eyuve
>do the thing required
You strain your eyes slightly to study a section of the inscriptions that seem to waver slightly.
Roundtime: 5 sec.
However, you're unable to decipher any of the information.
-- Player of Eyuve
FALLENSHADOWS
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/08/2012 06:31 AM CDT
>>However, you're unable to decipher any of the information.
If I remember right I think you have to pause between tries or it gets harder, got to let your eyes regain focus. But in all honesty its been several years so I might be confusing or misrembering things.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
If I remember right I think you have to pause between tries or it gets harder, got to let your eyes regain focus. But in all honesty its been several years so I might be confusing or misrembering things.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/08/2012 07:15 AM CDT
>>If I remember right I think you have to pause between tries or it gets harder, got to let your eyes regain focus.
There is definitely a line that shows up later saying, "Your eyes feel a bit less strained." I tried several times after waiting for this too.
-- Player of Eyuve
There is definitely a line that shows up later saying, "Your eyes feel a bit less strained." I tried several times after waiting for this too.
-- Player of Eyuve
DR-RAESH
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/08/2012 09:58 AM CDT
Yeah, that's not the failure I'm talking about.
What you're seeing (har har) is normal.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
What you're seeing (har har) is normal.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
MISSANYA
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/08/2012 11:22 AM CDT
Velok and I went to get this one maybe six months ago. We were in the 200+ scholarship range, and it took us probably an hour and a half of attempts before we finally learned the flare cantrip.
It's super annoying to learn, and I think I've used the cantrip once since then. Waste of time for me. :P
It's super annoying to learn, and I think I've used the cantrip once since then. Waste of time for me. :P
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/09/2012 02:02 AM CDT
Hm. I guess it never occurred to me with so much more scholarship than required that I could possibly fail ten times in a row.
I'll head back later and see what I can do, will report back then.
-- Player of Eyuve
I'll head back later and see what I can do, will report back then.
-- Player of Eyuve
DR-RAESH
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/09/2012 02:24 AM CDT
As I said, you're not really failing. I mean, you aren't getting the result you want, but that's not the same thing as failing.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/09/2012 02:46 AM CDT
>>As I said, you're not really failing. I mean, you aren't getting the result you want, but that's not the same thing as failing.
I'm confused. Is this supposed to be some kind of hint? It seems like not getting the cantrip, while aiming to do so, is a type of failure. (It's certainly not success!)
As for the substance of my message, I was just trying to feed back that it's not intuitively obvious that everything is working as intended. My instinct was that either there was a bug or my non-success was due to my unsected status.
-- Player of Eyuve
I'm confused. Is this supposed to be some kind of hint? It seems like not getting the cantrip, while aiming to do so, is a type of failure. (It's certainly not success!)
As for the substance of my message, I was just trying to feed back that it's not intuitively obvious that everything is working as intended. My instinct was that either there was a bug or my non-success was due to my unsected status.
-- Player of Eyuve
DR-RAESH
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/09/2012 05:05 AM CDT
I would need a more detailed log of what you were doing to be sure, but from what you're describing it sounds normal. I'm not sure how else I can answer the question at the moment.
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
-Raesh
"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/09/2012 05:16 AM CDT
>>As I said, you're not really failing. I mean, you aren't getting the result you want, but that's not the same thing as failing.
Those cantrips always confused me. Almost every other ability in the game is a yes/no switch or a quest. Some like slips fall outside this structure, but the slim % chance to succeed requires dozens of studies sometimes, just to learn a cantrip.
Those cantrips always confused me. Almost every other ability in the game is a yes/no switch or a quest. Some like slips fall outside this structure, but the slim % chance to succeed requires dozens of studies sometimes, just to learn a cantrip.
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/09/2012 07:15 AM CDT
I tried again another several times tonight. Still no go. Guess I will keep at it. I also got creative trying to reduce "eye strain" by casting CV, PG, and using my telescope, but not surprisingly none of it helped. Also tried touching, focusing, reading, at various points, to no avail.
>>I would need a more detailed log of what you were doing to be sure, but from what you're describing it sounds normal.
I enter the required command (the one that would fit into my log above), wait for the eye strain to go away, repeat.
-- Player of Eyuve
>>I would need a more detailed log of what you were doing to be sure, but from what you're describing it sounds normal.
I enter the required command (the one that would fit into my log above), wait for the eye strain to go away, repeat.
-- Player of Eyuve
FALLENSHADOWS
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/09/2012 07:19 AM CDT
I don't know what to tell you, you said you had the general cantrip knowledge right?
You might want to study it a few times then pause to let eye strain go away and then repeat.
_______________________
It is impossible to strive for the heroic life. The title of hero is bestowed by the survivors upon the fallen, who themselves know nothing of heroism.
-Johan Huizinga
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/09/2012 07:30 AM CDT
>>I don't know what to tell you, you said you had the general cantrip knowledge right?
Yep, got that a few days ago, followed by fling. So I know it worked to let me get at least one other cantrip.
-- Player of Eyuve
Yep, got that a few days ago, followed by fling. So I know it worked to let me get at least one other cantrip.
-- Player of Eyuve
HYPERBOLIC
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/09/2012 08:34 AM CDT
Here's an analogy:
Studying the obelisk = Blindly reaching into a bag of Halloween candy
Scholarship = Foraging/Mechanical Lore
Deciphering part of the obelisk = Grabbing/unwrapping some candy
Not learning Flare = Getting candy corn instead of the mini 3 Musketeers bar you really want
Presumably that last part is not skill-based.
-Artificer Nilassa
Studying the obelisk = Blindly reaching into a bag of Halloween candy
Scholarship = Foraging/Mechanical Lore
Deciphering part of the obelisk = Grabbing/unwrapping some candy
Not learning Flare = Getting candy corn instead of the mini 3 Musketeers bar you really want
Presumably that last part is not skill-based.
-Artificer Nilassa
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/20/2012 07:45 PM CDT
Okay, I've been to the place three more times and studied the thing about 5 times each time, maybe more. Each time I waited for the eye strain to go away. Still nothing. At various points I tried with AUS, CV, and PG up.
At this point I'm about ready to give up. If I'm doing something wrong can I please get a hint?
-- Player of Eyuve
At this point I'm about ready to give up. If I'm doing something wrong can I please get a hint?
-- Player of Eyuve
PSYBORG
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/23/2012 06:16 PM CDT
You aren't doing anything wrong, just keep at it. Even when I had to go back and re-learn the cantrips after magic 2.0 came out it took a bit of time. Don't run in, try twice and then stomp off. be prepared to spend an hour there if needs be. There is a very large random factor to it.
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/24/2012 06:14 AM CDT
Okay, thanks for the encouragement. It's tough when you have no clue if you're on the right track but just getting a random miss, or if you're doing something totally wrong.
-- Player of Eyuve
-- Player of Eyuve
HYPERBOLIC
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/24/2012 08:00 AM CDT
>It's tough when you have no clue if you're on the right track but just getting a random miss, or if you're doing something totally wrong.
It has already been said by a few different people that you're not doing something wrong.
-Artificer Nilassa
It has already been said by a few different people that you're not doing something wrong.
-Artificer Nilassa
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/24/2012 07:26 PM CDT
>>It has already been said by a few different people that you're not doing something wrong.
I appreciate that you in particular gave me a good explanation of what was happening, but I got paranoid after doing the thing another 20+ times with no results. It helped to hear to expect an hour+.
-- Player of Eyuve
I appreciate that you in particular gave me a good explanation of what was happening, but I got paranoid after doing the thing another 20+ times with no results. It helped to hear to expect an hour+.
-- Player of Eyuve
GARBAGE23OMF
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/26/2012 04:06 PM CDT
All I can say is that from the sound of it, this cantrip seems entirely to bothersome to get, considering it's just a cantrip.
TEVESHSZAT
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/26/2012 04:22 PM CDT
>>All I can say is that from the sound of it, this cantrip seems entirely to bothersome to get, considering it's just a cantrip.
It really just sounds similar to the way the Necromancer Guild entry quest works, where you essentially just need to be patient and not try to rush things for instant gratification.
In other words, you might want to go study the obelisk, then do some other things, then come back and study again, then go do some other things, etc.
But, if you just want to study study study and go, you'll most likely get frustrated.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
It really just sounds similar to the way the Necromancer Guild entry quest works, where you essentially just need to be patient and not try to rush things for instant gratification.
In other words, you might want to go study the obelisk, then do some other things, then come back and study again, then go do some other things, etc.
But, if you just want to study study study and go, you'll most likely get frustrated.
"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2
SERC
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/26/2012 05:00 PM CDT
"In other words, you might want to go study the obelisk, then do some other things, then come back and study again, then go do some other things, etc."
The obelisk is stupidly out of the way. The necro quest is on a timer. This is not. It's random. Leaving to do other things doesn't burn down a timer that you can then return and move on to the next step. You still only have the same % chance of success that you had last time.
-Serc
""It's a hell of a thing, killing some text. Take away all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's got, and all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's ever gonna have." -- Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven."-- Bahb.
The obelisk is stupidly out of the way. The necro quest is on a timer. This is not. It's random. Leaving to do other things doesn't burn down a timer that you can then return and move on to the next step. You still only have the same % chance of success that you had last time.
-Serc
""It's a hell of a thing, killing some text. Take away all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's got, and all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's ever gonna have." -- Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven."-- Bahb.
ELWYNN
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/26/2012 08:05 PM CDT
I remember I couldn't learn flare a long time ago, but it was because I didn't know the burn spell.
ALEPH-ONE
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 12:36 AM CDT
>>In other words, you might want to go study the obelisk, then do some other things, then come back and study again, then go do some other things, etc.
This was my thought, but for some reason it ended up making me pretty frustrated after the fourth trip. Maybe because each time I pass through I have to give up a little time, plan my other things differently, possibly lose delicate timing on some of my beams. I'm thinking if I really want it I'll sit down for a good hour and just gun for it. Probably write a script.
>>The obelisk is stupidly out of the way.
It's not that out of the way for a moon mage, once you're high enough to have the Ways and the appropriate shard of course. But yeah, the tiny percentage chance is frustrating.
-- Player of Eyuve
This was my thought, but for some reason it ended up making me pretty frustrated after the fourth trip. Maybe because each time I pass through I have to give up a little time, plan my other things differently, possibly lose delicate timing on some of my beams. I'm thinking if I really want it I'll sit down for a good hour and just gun for it. Probably write a script.
>>The obelisk is stupidly out of the way.
It's not that out of the way for a moon mage, once you're high enough to have the Ways and the appropriate shard of course. But yeah, the tiny percentage chance is frustrating.
-- Player of Eyuve
SERC
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 07:32 AM CDT
"It's not that out of the way for a moon mage, once you're high enough to have the Ways and the appropriate shard of course. But yeah, the tiny percentage chance is frustrating."
Requiring either 1)lengthy boat travel or 2)a trip through another dimension with a small chance of entirely random death and fairly moderate chance of self imposed death still qualifies as stupidly out of the way to me.
-Serc
""It's a hell of a thing, killing some text. Take away all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's got, and all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's ever gonna have." -- Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven."-- Bahb.
Requiring either 1)lengthy boat travel or 2)a trip through another dimension with a small chance of entirely random death and fairly moderate chance of self imposed death still qualifies as stupidly out of the way to me.
-Serc
""It's a hell of a thing, killing some text. Take away all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's got, and all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's ever gonna have." -- Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven."-- Bahb.
HYPERBOLIC
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 08:32 AM CDT
I see people open Moongates between the mainland and Ratha opening all the time.
Try a day-long trip from Ratha to Hara to the desert of bone-throwing skeletons that maybe one person in the game could hunt. Without the Ways or Locate/SM. Just to get a funny face cantrip.
Those were the good old days of MMs doing "stupidly out of the way."
Although at least we had SPB to get back and the good version of RF.
-Artificer Nilassa
Try a day-long trip from Ratha to Hara to the desert of bone-throwing skeletons that maybe one person in the game could hunt. Without the Ways or Locate/SM. Just to get a funny face cantrip.
Those were the good old days of MMs doing "stupidly out of the way."
Although at least we had SPB to get back and the good version of RF.
-Artificer Nilassa
SERC
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 09:11 AM CDT
Hi. You must think I'm new.
-Serc
""It's a hell of a thing, killing some text. Take away all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's got, and all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's ever gonna have." -- Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven."-- Bahb.
-Serc
""It's a hell of a thing, killing some text. Take away all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's got, and all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's ever gonna have." -- Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven."-- Bahb.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 09:21 AM CDT
Not new, but kind of surprised to hear you say the AP is deadly to anyone past, I dunno, 50th. Eyuve certainly is; getting to and from the islands isn't hard for a Moonie once walking the AP is reliable.
SERC
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 09:40 AM CDT
"but kind of surprised to hear you say the AP is deadly to anyone past, I dunno, 50th."
Chance of entirely random death regardless of skill exits.
I've had enough PP to get only five second RTs for long enough that I don't remember when I hit that milestone anymore. I have 413 concentration. I still get expansed periodically.
-Serc
""It's a hell of a thing, killing some text. Take away all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's got, and all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's ever gonna have." -- Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven."-- Bahb.
Chance of entirely random death regardless of skill exits.
I've had enough PP to get only five second RTs for long enough that I don't remember when I hit that milestone anymore. I have 413 concentration. I still get expansed periodically.
-Serc
""It's a hell of a thing, killing some text. Take away all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's got, and all the numbers and letters and punctuation it's ever gonna have." -- Clint Eastwood, Unforgiven."-- Bahb.
CHOSON
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 11:09 AM CDT
Getting expansed has nothing to do with how much concentration you have. It is about moving in the wrong direction too many times. I've seen the Grey Expanse exactly once since the Ways were released, and that was because I was trying to use someones script which assumed perceives are 100% accurate. You just have to be more careful about how you move because the perceives are never always correct (no matter how much PP you have).
There is still the entirely random death chance, it's just not the Grey Expanse.
There is still the entirely random death chance, it's just not the Grey Expanse.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 12:35 PM CDT
I too have only really expansed a couple of times, each time because just before I hit ENTER on a direction, the directions change ("before settling into new patterns").
The risk of expansion isn't zero, to be sure, but my Moonie uses the AP very regularly.
The risk of expansion isn't zero, to be sure, but my Moonie uses the AP very regularly.
MOCKERJB
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 01:19 PM CDT
<<You just have to be more careful about how you move because the perceives are never always correct (no matter how much PP you have).>>
How do you go about being more careful in your movement? I understand perceives are not always correct, how is it you determine when they are lying to you?
How do you go about being more careful in your movement? I understand perceives are not always correct, how is it you determine when they are lying to you?
GRIM45
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 02:43 PM CDT
One key is backtracking directions.
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
TG, TG, GL, et al.
"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh
HYPERBOLIC
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 03:15 PM CDT
Generally I check to make sure that the direction pointing behind me corresponds to the direction from which I just moved. If it does, I proceed. If it doesn't, I'll perceive one or two more times until something matches.
-Artificer Nilassa
P.S. I know Serc isn't new; it's just baffling that someone who went through that would consider a trip to Ratha these days to take a long time.
-Artificer Nilassa
P.S. I know Serc isn't new; it's just baffling that someone who went through that would consider a trip to Ratha these days to take a long time.
CHOSON
Re: Flare Cantrip
04/27/2012 04:14 PM CDT
>>Generally I check to make sure that the direction pointing behind me corresponds to the direction from which I just moved. If it does, I proceed. If it doesn't, I'll perceive one or two more times until something matches.
This is what I do as well.
This is what I do as well.
