>I see that you expect me to treat people better than they treat me. If I had posted what Armifer had I am pretty sure it would have been labeled as disruptive. There is no need to act like I am getting the same consideration as Armifer.

Are you serious? Your posts are disrespectful, uninformed, and disruptive more often than not. Even when you have a valid point to make (such as BMR) it gets lost because of the way you present it. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm being honest.

Did you seriously just play the "FREE SPEECH!!1" card?

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

---

Rev. Reene

"But does one ever truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars." -- Kain, Defiance

::mjpopcorn::


-Strk

Speaking your mind and being petulant are diffrent things. You sit more on the petulant side of things. You tend to approach everything with a negative, almost defeatist attitude. Maybe this isn't how it sounds to you in your head when you type out the majority of your posts, but I think I can safely say this is how it comes across to the rest of us.

You've used up a lot of if not all of your good will capitol with the people here so the responces you get now are genearaly already writing off whatever legitimate things you may have to say in your posts because no one wants to bother looking past your sour attitude about everything. You've, wether intentionaly or not, made yourself not worth it.

-Serc


"Moon Mages have already been given some of the most ridiculously powerful magic in the game, third only to Warrior Mages and Barbarians" -Armifer

The fact that your constitutional rights don't extend to a private message board notwithstanding, you need to reeducate yourself on the spirit of the meaning behind the "Freedom of Speech" reference. It does not mean "I can say whatever I want, whenever I want to whomever I want."

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact

Kssarh uses a night light. Not because Kssarh is afraid of the dark, but the dark is afraid of Kssarh.

>Political Correctness in this day and age has blinded America about reality. Myself, I'll go with truth, honor and country over PC-iness, dollar, and trying to become as fat as possible.

What honor is there in constantly being disrespectful?

I'm also not sure what the whole 'become as fat as possible' thing is from. My weight has nothing to do with what I bring to this forum. I rely on the weight of my arguments.

>>None but neither is there any in being overly sensitive

I got the feeling that the original post was more about communicating effectively than being overly sensitive.

Either way, decent thread. I give it a B-. Could use some seriously derailing, some histrionics, pulled posts and a good "paying customer!" rant.

Meh. Maybe I'm too picky about my conflicts.

~player of Gulphphunger

<<Political Correctness in this day and age has blinded America about reality. Myself, I'll go with truth, honor and country over PC-iness, dollar, and trying to become as fat as possible.>>

I'd like to point out, you know, in an effort to continue the derailed conversation with another derailing (i.e., feel free to ignore this), that pursuit of the dollar is neither un-American or unethical.

You commie.

I would. Does that count?

-Master Ndin

>>When I read this, I could only wonder ... would you have the audacity to stand in front of George Washington or God and say that to their face?

Sure however since only one them is real and he's long dead I can't :(

That being said, you realize that it all comes down to property. There is a reason why you can't scream "fire!" in a movie house. You put other people in danger and cross a line where your words are now affecting other people's property. The movie house owner is losing money, the people risk injury running from a non-burning theater, etc.

Freedom is speech has always been restricted by rights of property. Always. You can say what you like so long as no ones physical property is being affected.

- Galren

No trophy, no flowers, no flashbulbs, no wine,
Hes haunted by something he cannot define.
Bowel-shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse,
Assail him, impale him with monster-truck force

Put another way, please read. The First Amendment deals with restrictions BY Congress, not BY other people.

With the spirit of Abe in mind, I reserve my constitutionally guaranteed right to make a jackass of myself until the GMs take away my God given right to post.

Actually, I was going more towards the moral compass needed for living in a republican and democratic enviroment. George Washington had it and is primarily the reason he stands out as a founding father. Instead of becoming a defacto king or emporer like those recently before him, ie Cromwell, The House of Orange, Washington modeled himself after classical heros like Cininatus.

I do not know about you but it says something about a leader to be known for dignity, restraint, and a reputation for republican virtue especially one who understands that "[t]he motives which predominate most human affairs are self love and self-intrest"(GW to James Madison Dec 3 1784). Since I know you are going to bring up that he was a slave owner I'll just go ahead and say that George was the only founding father to free his. Lets just say, standing up and telling old George that you can take away a persons rights when he could have taken away an entire country's would not have been received well.

As to God not exsisting ... I would just want to ask, "What happened before the big bang?" At present that is as far back as most scientists are willing to go. Everything comes from something, so where did the building blocks of atoms come from? If you could answer that you would be holding a Nobel prize and living like a rock star, especially if you could patent it. So, until I come up with a better answer I will assume intelligent design and that I am suppose to live some form of a virtuous life.

So, where was I going with the entire question of standing before GW or God and calling forth your rights of property? Where would America be if GW had stood up and said I have these rights like Cromewell and deserve to be king? Where would the world be if a hypothetical being stood up and said there is no free will and you will do only as I want?

And no I am not asking questions to get a rise out of you, I am merely asking deep probing questions that should be making you think.

Pelag ai Aldam Stolas

---

You wait around impatiently for your opponent to return.
>
Galren stops the contest, admitting you are the better opponent.

>As to God not exsisting ... I would just want to ask, "What happened before the big bang?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/

~ Sage Kougen Aensworth, Star Shaper of the Compact

Kssarh uses a night light. Not because Kssarh is afraid of the dark, but the dark is afraid of Kssarh.

What question does god actually answer though? If god created the universe, how did he come to be? If he always was, why couldn't the universe always be? Alternately, if he was created, why couldn't the universe be created. Ultimately, what is god but the personification of physics and history which we still don't fully understand?

Can God create a rock that even he cannot lift?

- Galren

No trophy, no flowers, no flashbulbs, no wine,
Hes haunted by something he cannot define.
Bowel-shaking earthquakes of doubt and remorse,
Assail him, impale him with monster-truck force

I find it amazing that religion is the only thing in the world that must be disproved.

"Humans evolved from monkeys." - assumed false until enough evidence is captured to prove hypothesis.

"God created humans and the Earth." - assumed true until "enough" evidence is captured to disprove.

>>I find it amazing that religion is the only thing in the world that must be disproved.

That's only because it's the only thing in the world that can't be proved

>>There are an infinite number of things that can't be proven.

Prove it :P

>>Prove it :P

I don't know about "infinite", but go look up Godel. =P

And now for Stolas,

>>I do not know about you but it says something about a leader to be known for dignity, restraint

Exercising this, instead of showing off your personal fanaticism and thoughtlessness, would be an excellent start. Do you really feel dignified? What, exactly, are you restraining yourself from doing?

You are a very poor emulation of George Washington, and I think you should go and learn more about him before you insult his name further.

>>Lets just say, standing up and telling old George that you can take away a persons rights when he could have taken away an entire country's would not have been received well.

Let's not.

Again, read the Bill of Rights. READ it. The relevant section has been quoted in this thread. Here's the Wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

Augustus Caesar gave his empire its golden years. And to do it, he took away vast amounts of rights and upset many things. They called him a god, and he used the power they gave him.

>>As to God not exsisting ... I would just want to ask, "What happened before the big bang?"

If you have such faith that the Big Bang happened at all, then why don't you have faith that it will be explained without invocations of God?

>>Everything comes from something

Here's a deep, probing question for you: Why?

Common sense? No such thing. Push harder.

>>until I come up with a better answer I will assume intelligent design and that I am suppose to live some form of a virtuous life.

I would consider it a virtue not to make assumptions that aren't necessary or useful.

It is one thing to deliberately choose to believe in something, whether that be the hand of an angry God or the standard of character in morality and validity. It is quite another to elect something as a default and lazily fall back on it because it sounded good and you can't disprove it.

If you must believe in God, then do it because you have chosen to. Not because you don't have a better answer. That is intellectually lazy and sums up your failure of character. To arrogantly take that and ask others to heed it--a thoughtless, groundless sloth--is precisely the kind of stance that makes you unbearable.

This is not simply about your droll spirituality or your shallow political understanding: it is also about your simplistic conception of evil and of fairness. In both cases, you are just as intellectually lazy.

I believe in God. But I do not believe what you do. I am not religious; I am not spiritual. I don't need to: I thought about it, and I chose. And I still think about it.

Thomas Jefferson rewrote the Bible. What have you done?

>>Where would America be if GW had stood up and said I have these rights like Cromewell and deserve to be king?

It would be right here. Revising 200 years of history is a not an argument.

Besides, Cromwell's ideology founded the Northeast Puritan state. You knew that, right? City on a Hill? That's one of the reasons why the First Amendment includes the freedom of religion.

>>And no I am not asking questions to get a rise out of you, I am merely asking deep probing questions that should be making you think.

Your "deep, probing" questions remind me the first Matrix movie. Everyone ooh'd and aah'd and thought it was a big deal, when it was actually a pathetically simple-minded Epistemology 101. The actual heavyweight questions came in the second two movies, so of course everyone hated those.


---
"Close your eyes -
For your eyes will only tell the truth..
And the truth isn't what you want to see.
In the dark, it is easy to pretend
That the truth is what it ought to be." - Erik Claudin