That's pretty disappointing...there goes any possibility of ever salvaging Shift into a real ability that's actually at least minimally useful I suppose. It seems as though it's now doomed to be nothing more than "That monumental waste of development resources that were desperately needed elsewhere. Twice. Maybe even three times depending on what all needs to be done for the skill reorganization.", which is extremely frustrating.

It doesn't even really make sense from a story perspective...one of their students figures out how to misuse the ability after years of the guild being collectively responsible with it, and instead of saying "maybe we should actually instruct them in its proper usage", they say "come arrest them all!"? I mean, Mirinn blatantly asked one of us to use it to rectify Yvei's mess, which is exactly what the world at large saw the guild do in living memory when Jomay was running around disfiguring people. It just doesn't add up.

Oh well, it's not like the ability was ever used in the first place...it's really no big loss, except in terms of potential. I just hope the "you're not supposed to actually use your abilities" trend stops here. If players want that experience they can join the Necromancer guild. That's not what we signed up for here.

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor

>>there goes any possibility of ever salvaging Shift into a real ability that's actually at least minimally useful I suppose

How exactly? I don't see that outcome at all. I see this, instead, as opening up more room for the Empaths to break away from the "Em-Puff" view and really get their hands dirty. A small step, but it counts.

It's important to remember the history here, not to single you out Karthor but what you posted was wrong. It's not about some student misusing the ability. It's always been said that they never wanted us using this to begin with.

Jomay could be said to have created this ability, she has been researching the heart link since before Empaths were Empaths. Jomay is one of, if not the reason that there is no Imperial Healers Guild anymore. The ability (Shifting) has always been frowned upon as many of the leadership consider it far too forceful and against the morals of the Empaths Guild. The only two times I recall it being actually approved was to correct some of the victims of the ristan'dia that Jomay is suspected to have created; and once more to correct the victims of Jomay's force shifting during the war. Even then, it was always something that the Khalo frowned upon and they've said numerous times they do not approve of its use.

RL example:
If you bought an illegal gun and you were caught with it, saying that you never did anything bad with it doesn't relieve you from committing the crime of being in possession of an illegal firearm. :)

---

The Shard Sentinel nods to Alexii and says, "Yes, you may pass."
Alexii says, "Sucker!"

<<We can no longer shift in justice areas, we just have to step out side of town>>

heh. welcome to the dark side!!!!


some can't use any abilities in a town at all, or even be seen in town, without a mob bringing out the torches.... :-)




/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius

<<Not quite sure of your logic here.>>

<<"We can no longer shift in justice areas, we just have to step out side of town" = "Useless ability".>>

Well it already is a useless ability; it always has been. I was apparently holding on to some bit of hope that it would some day be developed into something that actually does something, but if using it is a forbidden practice then there's no reason to even bother.

<<It's not about some student misusing the ability. It's always been said that they never wanted us using this to begin with...The ability (Shifting) has always been frowned upon as many of the leadership consider it far too forceful and against the morals of the Empaths Guild.>>

See, that never made sense to me. The ability is literally nothing more than changing the physical appearance of another being. For almost everybody, it also requires the active participation of the recipient...they have to envision the change themselves as part of the process. It's not exactly going to break the world, and having everyone get all bent out of shape over something so trivial makes for a somewhat nonsensical story. What am I missing here?

Thanks,
-Life Sustainer Karthor

>>It's not about some student misusing the ability. It's always been said that they never wanted us using this to begin with...The ability (Shifting) has always been frowned upon as many of the leadership consider it far too forceful and against the morals of the Empaths Guild.

>>See, that never made sense to me. The ability is literally nothing more than changing the physical appearance of another being. For almost everybody, it also requires the active participation of the recipient...they have to envision the change themselves as part of the process. It's not exactly going to break the world, and having everyone get all bent out of shape over something so trivial makes for a somewhat nonsensical story. What am I missing here?

From what I understand SHIFT isn't actually bad, not as an ability on its own. It's the history behind it that casts a massive pall over the whole thing, both its use and its potential future. Who created it, what it was used for, how the misuse of it caused an entire guild to kinda be sent back to START. (kinda.) Jomay (and others) can Force Shift without any sort of shock or consent, this caused the development of Empathic Shifting which is a little less invasive but still operates on the same principles. (Hence having to go through the steps involved to learn it.)

I personally wouldn't get bummed out, the Heart Link still has many potential uses I think. This thing with the JUSTICE change is something you should consider an IG reaction to Asrea's Transparency Movement. As word about shifting is becoming more and more public, the Guild seems to be taking large steps to make sure that they remain un-supportive with its use.

---

The Shard Sentinel nods to Alexii and says, "Yes, you may pass."
Alexii says, "Sucker!"

Granted it's now less "hideously forbidden" and more simply "forbidden."

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>> "hideously forbidden act that Empaths can do to torment your character's body into some form it originally did not have."

I understand that. I was talking about why it was forbidden. Also about why it is "torment" and not, I don't know, "Bodysculpting" or "Artistic Life Manipultation." And that is because of the history, not the ability itself.

---

The Shard Sentinel nods to Alexii and says, "Yes, you may pass."
Alexii says, "Sucker!"

>I understand that. I was talking about why it was forbidden. Also about why it is "torment" and not, I don't know, "Bodysculpting" or "Artistic Life Manipultation." And that is because of the history, not the ability itself.

Honestly, it's the difference between setting a broken bone, and that operation where they break your bones over and over to give you a few extra inches of height.

In the guild's eyes, it's giving you something you did not possess before, which is wrong.

---

Weapons for Sale:
http://www.elanthipedia.org/wiki/User:Caraamon#Wares
Hunta Talna Kortok, built by Gor'Togs, for Gor'Togs
http://www.angelfire.com/rpg2/caraamon/home.html
Combat Balance List:
http://tinyurl.com/DRBalance

>>I understand that. I was talking about why it was forbidden.

Because if they give an inch, there is the belief that it will open the door to much worse being used with it.

Keep in mind that Empaths currently shift for generally vapid/cosmetic reasons. The act itself has the potential to be a lot more horrific, and those in power really don't want to see those floodgates open.

It's the equivalent of going "no, guys, this is the good sorcery/necromancy!" People don't care and enforce a zero tolerance policy.

---

"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2

Bearing in mind that Shift was supposed to be so deeply forbidden before this that it shouldn't have been been uttered lest you acknowledged its existence, now the Empath Guild is more transparent and it's merely illegal.

Progress!

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

P.S. Could you please add in an option to the CM so that you do not have to specify a face/nose shape? I personally dislike having a face shape, (whenever I see a heart shaped face I literally imagine a heart shaped face -- gross) so being forced to choose one when making a new character is a big dissappointment.

__
You hear the voice of Jaedren exclaim, "Look! I'm Leilond!"
You notice Jaedren come out of hiding.
Jaedren shimmers out of sight.

>>Beveragek: Could you please add in an option to the CM so that you do not have to specify a face/nose shape? I personally dislike having a face shape, (whenever I see a heart shaped face I literally imagine a heart shaped face -- gross) so being forced to choose one when making a new character is a big dissappointment.

>>DR-Melete: Hah. That sounds kind of awesome actually. The features system and the CM are not really my bailiwick, but I'll get in touch with the folks responsible and let them know about this, err, feature request.

While we're on this subject, the ability to remove the height line from one's description (via the Character Manager and/or Shift) would also be welcome. (Currently, if you choose average height, it says you're of average height. If you're taller or shorter than average, you can shift to average height, but you can't remove the height line.)

---

"PHA = Healer Union. They charge for healing based on your injuries. We will now pause while everyone gives their opinion on this." -- Teilan

>>> mechanically walking is no longer possible

Walking the starry road. Perma-death.

>>So can a S'Kra Mur who has a pale silver underbelly but was not shifted exist? Mechanically, no, but in the setting as a whole I'm inclined to say yes.

Melete, thanks so much for answering me.

I guess I just wonder why this was the decision when it creates such an awkward IC/OOC distinction. It requires finding a safe place to do a totally OOC shift, needing an empath for something you should have from birth, and not being able to use whatever traces the system leaves as RP clues of wrongdoing.

Why not just have all the "normal" features available in the CG? Was there a worry that empaths wouldn't have enough reason to shift? (Although I wonder why giving them OOC shifts really helps with this.)

Why not remove CG options like gold/silver/violet/clear eyes, and remove white/grey/silver hair for the young? Or better yet, why not have subraces be an option (like Wind Elf), with a restricted feature range based on the lore?

I realize you aren't the CG GM, Melete, I'm just perplexed and talking out loud. If there's a better place to post CG suggestions, let me know.


-- Player of Eyuve

>>I guess I just wonder why this was the decision when it creates such an awkward IC/OOC distinction. It requires finding a safe place to do a totally OOC shift, needing an empath for something you should have from birth, and not being able to use whatever traces the system leaves as RP clues of wrongdoing.

There's no such thing as a totally OOC shift. Someone may have OOC motives for it, but that's their business; their character is performing a crime in the setting.

It's totally fair to say that the CM should be opened up more, though.

-Armifer
"In our days truth is taken to result from the effacing of the living man behind the mathematical structures that think themselves out in him, rather than he be thinking them." - Emmanuel Levinas

>>In the guild's eyes, it's giving you something you did not possess before, which is wrong.

A bit late, but this was my general understanding of it, too. It is playing God. If the gods had wanted you to have X, you would have been born that way. That paired with the past misuses of (forced) shifting are the main factors leading to its being banned.

---

~The Prydaen~

What I was saying is that having a pale silver underbelly shouldn't immediately lead to the conclusion that they were shifted to become that way. Such people could exist within the setting of Elanthia without having been shifted to become that way.

However, I think Armifer is saying that this doesn't mean you can then have your character shifted and claim it never happened, unless you are roleplaying a crazy person.

I would also like to see the CM more open, but it's not really my decision to make; though I was asked for my input as the Empath advocate when it happened.

Melete

---

The naphtha soaking a pure white alfar avenger bursts into flame with an explosive WHOOOMPH!

>Like stealing though, it bothers society - hence against the law.

Moreso a perceived threat to the power structure than society in general. That power structure includes the Guild hierarchy. It's driven by politics.

well, one of the issues problematically is this: There used to be shops which both dyed and cut hair. <in leth deriel to be exact>

When shifting was put in the game, these shops were closed.

So, since you have to break the law to get a haircut....

even my "lawful goodY two-shoes therengian paladin" has gotten shifted :-)


...running with scissors....





/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius

>>I don't think you could call it "playing god". Shifting doesn't bother the gods one teeny-tiny bit <no divine outrage>.

While I don't know if the Immortals would be cool with it or not, I definitely wouldn't base my opinion on the fact that it doesn't give the same response as something completely different.

---

"You always have to be a know-it-all. And you don't. Know. It. All." - GERSTEINJ2