I don't want to derail the other thread, so I'll just post this here.

The Empaths who were there did ask nicely, but they were threatened with death and insulted up one side and down the other.

Mikiri says, "Everyone blows boxes sometimes."

Mikiri says, "Shouldn't pop 'em in here."

Zameo says, "Well allow me be the first to say, i would be honored to be the one to hurl shrapnel into your face in the next few rois"

He was then removed.

Your mind hears Kenoselaris thinking, "ill use the arch before i pay an empath for healing, its pathetic that dey wanna charge for a service dey make good tips from"

(removed)

Your mind hears Kenoselaris thinking, "and for voicing that on the gweth szrael kicked me from da guild, i wish da gods would slap her around fer abusing dat ability"

You hear your mental voice echo, If you're going to hang out in the Empath guild, you ought to be at least a teeny bit polite to the Empaths there.

Your mind hears Kenoselaris thinking, "shove that somewhere szrael an oppinion is no reason to kick someone from da guild"

Kenoselaris has also attacked Szrael in the past, and insulted her in various ways, so she has very little tolerance for him. The same is true for Mikiri, who he has also threatened to kill.

This next fellow showed up after Mikiri was gwething that she was trying to stop people from opening boxes in the Empath guild, seemingly in an attempt to cause trouble.

Kiluminati just arrived.

(starts to open boxes)

You ask Kiluminati, "Would you mind doing that outside?"

You say, "Lest you kill us all."

Kiluminati says, "I'm certain that wont happen."

You say, "Well, I'm not."

Mikiri says, "so we will ask you nicely to step outside and do it please."

You say, "Indeed, it would be very obliging of you to do that elsewhere."

You say, "And we would be ever so grateful."

(Time passes. He holds a box and shakes it at Szrael).

You show Kiluminati your crimson-scale belt.

You say, "This is the last person who crossed me."

Kiluminati asks, "Was that some sort of lesser rodent?"

You say, "No, it was a S'Kra Mur."

Kiluminati says, "Right."

You say, "I also made a hat."

(random talking)

Kiluminati says, "Let what, you were in zero danger."

Mikiri says, "we have no way of knowing that."

Kiluminati says, "Unless you threaten to skin me again."

Kiluminati says, "Then you will be." (Fair enough, but he was moved by other Empaths at this point. I would probably have let it slide, but eh.)

Your mind hears Kiluminati thinking, "When did a couple extremelly rude and vulgar empaths move into empaths guild?"

There wasn't that much extreme rudeness or vulgarity in any of those cases. People just refuse to act respectfully toward Empaths in the Empath guild. People seem to feel that being healed and hanging out in the Empath guild is an inalienable right, not a privilege that they enjoy.

If multiple Empaths politely make a reasonable request, it shouldn't be a huge deal to oblige them. Instead, people seem to immediately take offense and almost always come back with a response that amounts to, "Make me."

Szrael and many other Empaths are quite willing to make them.

Throwing people out for no reason at all is one thing, but punishing people for rudeness and death threats is something else. In any case, the Empath mechanics are not like the Cleric ones, so someone who is removed will only be mildly inconvenienced for a few hours, at which point they can enjoy the Empath guild once again, happily endangering everyone in the area with their boxes. Needlessly scrolling like mad, and littering all over the ground when a bucket is right there. I suggested that the Empath Guild infirmary's no-box mechanic be extended to the Main Room because it would solve a lot of those problems and would mean less drama in the guildhall. For what it's worth, I don't enjoy that sort of stuff either.

-- Player of Szrael --

>>Today it's boxes, tomorrow it's juggling, and the next day it's casting.

Anything that can potentially hurt people in a place of healing seems like a good idea to remove when possible. Not sure how to hurt others with juggling though...

And now it's dead people not belonging in the empath guild.

Mikiri says, "corpses go to clerics."

Kabalos says, "Corpses need to be healed."

You hear the ghostly voice of Sud say, "Mikiri dragged me to the provincial empath after a good somaritan, who has my weapon, dragged me here for help"

Mikiri says to Kabalos, "corpses ain't sanitary. empaths will go to clerics to heal corpses. please don't bring him in again."

Are you serious? Anything for a bit of drama. I guess you really are just that bored (and pathetic).

>>And now it's dead people not belonging in the empath guild.

>>Are you serious? Anything for a bit of drama. I guess you really are just that bored (and pathetic).

It really is pointless to drag them there and makes more work for the dragger. A dead person is not going to get any clerical help there. The holy mana is just plain horrible. It makes more sense to drag them directly to the cleric guild. There's often empaths that hang out there and if there's not there's always one or three that are willing to come heal a body if someone gweths

---

Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.

-Armifer

It's not really hard for me personally to get a second empath around. All I really have to do is IM a friend, if that was the point.

The Empath removal system is outdated, and should get an update and makeover like other guilds have had.

---

Rev. Reene

The black panther growls, "Are you blind Tachid? Kill Caelumia."
>
Tachid says, "SHE HAS BLUE FIRE"

>It's not really hard for me personally to get a second empath around. All I really have to do is IM a friend, if that was the point.

Well we know you aren't shy about abusing mechanics with other people's characters.

>The Empath removal system is outdated, and should get an update and makeover like other guilds have had.

Getting banned from the empath guild is a much harsher penalty than removal from the ranger guild.

>And using REMOVE to kick people out isn't mechanics abuse. It isn't any kind of abuse, period. I think I just made that point in the other thread though.

If you're kicking people out for being dead, you're just trying to cause problems.

>I should start logging things on my Empath, it seems I need to.

Maybe you should just log everything? That's what I do.

>>People will naturally assume it's purely OOC griefing whenever something they don't like happens, but that's how it's always been with Empaths. Seven years doesn't actually change a lot.

I concur.

To steal from the euphemism, there is no 'I' in Dragonrealms.


Nikpack
player of more than I should list

Climbing List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Climbing_skill
Swimming List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Swimming_skill

And while I am evil, I try to avoid being just plain mean.
-Z

>> But there is a Grandma Loser, Marred Slogan, Raged Normals and a Read: Lags Norm.

Ahahaha.

---

Rev. Reene

The black panther growls, "Are you blind Tachid? Kill Caelumia."
>
Tachid says, "SHE HAS BLUE FIRE"

>>While on this subject, why did all the healing move to the main room?

Probably because of the box picking, heh

---

Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.

-Armifer

>>why did all the healing move to the main room? The mana is way better in the infirmary

The mana is only better in the infirmary until you can start pulling from adjacent rooms.

So the infirmary is much better for low level Empaths, but the main room is better higher ones. Maybe the balance shifts back to the infirmary again with higher PP; I'm not sure. Mingold claimed the mana was better in the main room, at least, and she's pretty skilled magic wise I'm sure.

I tried for a while to get people to move back into the infirmary, but no luck.

-- Player of Szrael --

---

You grip the oversized book hanging from your leather belt and survey the area with a hint of malice in your eyes.

With a violent cross-body motion, you draw your oversized book.

>>Just like the room in front of the crate in Haven for the same reason.

Which is outside the empath guild, no?

~Arwinia

The Empath spellbook is a riddle trapped in an enigma hidden inside a lot of suck.-Armifer

>I suggested that the Empath Guild infirmary's no-box mechanic be extended to the Main Room because it would solve a lot of those problems and would mean less drama in the guildhall. For what it's worth, I don't enjoy that sort of stuff either.

Yes let's take any and all conflict out of an RP driven game (see outside WM guild for perfect example). /sarcasm


Player of too many, even an empath

---

...if you stick around long enough you will find that the only way you can quit DR is by going to a drug rehab and convincing them you are there for some reason other than trying to quit a txt based rpg. - Ragran!

>>Another approach to possibly solving this would be to massively increase the mana in the Infirmary,

Actually that would only make the mana in the main room better. You would need to remove the mana from the library and guild leader's rooms to revert the situation, or allow the infirmary to sense the "Empath Only" room as well.

>> Well the problem is, there isn't really another way to respond.

Go do something else for two hours? Empath removal is really no different from any other removal system as far as ways to respond go.

It is nowhere near as broken as the Cleric removal system is either. Two hours is nothing. Try 60 days.

---

Rev. Reene

The black panther growls, "Are you blind Tachid? Kill Caelumia."
>
Tachid says, "SHE HAS BLUE FIRE"

This is a thread about broken records tbqh.

---

Rev. Reene

The black panther growls, "Are you blind Tachid? Kill Caelumia."
>
Tachid says, "SHE HAS BLUE FIRE"

<<I do bring Szrael outside to give people a chance to get even, but I wouldn't blame anyone for failing to do this, since technically there's nothing to get even about.>>

I understand the purpose of removing someone when they are disturbing people within their guildhalls. However, in a game where actions lead to repercussions, it does seem out of place that there is no consent involved in removing someone else from a guildhall.

- Simon

I can see both sides of the issue enough that I can understand why they would just simplify the policy into "removing doesn't grant consent" even if I think it's stupid in some situations.

Sometimes removing should grant consent, sometimes it shouldn't. It's probably easier to paint the whole thing with the same brush.

---

Rev. Reene

The black panther growls, "Are you blind Tachid? Kill Caelumia."
>
Tachid says, "SHE HAS BLUE FIRE"

<<If someone removes someone from a guildhall because the remover was just hanging out trying to enjoy themselves, couldn't they technically be breaking policy if they don't go outside to allow the person to kill them? That's sort of counter to the whole purpose of the removal mechanic.>>

I think people make too much out of policy then what it should be. To clarify, if you negatively affect my character, I should have the option to come after you to seek retribution. Usually throughout the game, this follows form, but not in this instance.

Think of it from the reasoning of for "every action, there is an equal reaction." I'm not saying to go outside and get yourself attempted to be killed. However, if you removed someone from your own guildhall, you were the one that removed that individual and should accept your actions that you've done. This doesn't just go for removal of someone from a guild, but any action done. You make an action and you should accept the consequences whether it is good, bad or mixed in perception of others.

<<Assuming good faith on their part (yeah, I know), the remover just wants to enjoy their guildhall, but now they have to go outside and take a death because someone else was being a nuisance and got booted.>>

If someone makes an action, then they should accept the repercussions. Do Empaths want to be coddled or not coddled? Which?

<<Szrael is open so it's not a problem for me, but I wonder what the consequences would be for others.>>

I want you to understand Szrael that this isn't about you or Reene. You both are more then adequately experienced in this game to understand how to play things through.

- Simon