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Proto-necromancer players lobbying for necro self-healing spells.
http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=26&topic=8&message=395
I do not approve.
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
LORZELOPHIA
BLUTURTL1428
ASTARINEL
Re: So it Begins
03/05/2009 05:12 PM CST
I've gotten to the point where my thoughts on other guilds getting healing spells is:
Awesome! Give them weak healing abilities whenever appropriate, and get rid of Empathic shock. People can then heal themselves (although Empaths will still be more effective) and Empaths can stop being prevented from full participation in the most developed part of the game where the greatest learning of skills takes place.
Or, failing that, simply disband the Empath guild and distribute healing spells and abilities across other guilds for whom it could possibly be appropriate. Let us all join whatever other guild we feel is most appropriate, and maybe even trade in our Empathy ranks for whatever guild-only skills they have.
There was a point at which I cared about our "turf" intensely (see: arguments on cauterize in the WM folders), but now I can't get up the energy to give a damn.
Awesome! Give them weak healing abilities whenever appropriate, and get rid of Empathic shock. People can then heal themselves (although Empaths will still be more effective) and Empaths can stop being prevented from full participation in the most developed part of the game where the greatest learning of skills takes place.
Or, failing that, simply disband the Empath guild and distribute healing spells and abilities across other guilds for whom it could possibly be appropriate. Let us all join whatever other guild we feel is most appropriate, and maybe even trade in our Empathy ranks for whatever guild-only skills they have.
There was a point at which I cared about our "turf" intensely (see: arguments on cauterize in the WM folders), but now I can't get up the energy to give a damn.
LORZELOPHIA
Re: So it Begins
03/05/2009 05:22 PM CST
If there was any possibility of your suggestions actually being put into practice, I might be on board.
But for now?
Aw hell naw. Get off my land you obnoxious undead mary-sues.
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
But for now?
Aw hell naw. Get off my land you obnoxious undead mary-sues.
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
YANSHADEY
Re: So it Begins
03/05/2009 05:28 PM CST
>>Aw hell naw. Get off my land you obnoxious undead mary-sues.
Get off my lawn!
Get off my lawn!
BLUTURTL1428
Re: So it Begins
03/05/2009 06:14 PM CST
i dont want to share. i want new spells, better concentration so manipulate works, a decent defensive spell, a shock quest, the ability to kill necro's since they are the anti-empath, to many herbs to cause poisoning, and NOT TO SHARE!!!!
thank you
thank you
SYRGICAL
Re: So it Begins
03/05/2009 10:45 PM CST
>>i dont want to share. i want new spells, better concentration so manipulate works, a decent defensive spell, a shock quest, the ability to kill necro's since they are the anti-empath, to many herbs to cause poisoning, and NOT TO SHARE!!!!
Its one thing to complain about empaths being underdeveloped. Its another to whine about necros getting self healing or even an auto empath of their own. Some necros will never see the light of day trying to get healed in town. While we are at not letting them heal, lets take all dmg spells away except for warmies, and all buffs away except for moonies. Lets get rid of herbs and empath pets and get some real "game balance" A necro self healing will have little to no effect on empaths other then the point of whats presented: necros steering clear of towns. Szrael your arguement needs to be focused mainly on your guilds underdevelopment.
Its one thing to complain about empaths being underdeveloped. Its another to whine about necros getting self healing or even an auto empath of their own. Some necros will never see the light of day trying to get healed in town. While we are at not letting them heal, lets take all dmg spells away except for warmies, and all buffs away except for moonies. Lets get rid of herbs and empath pets and get some real "game balance" A necro self healing will have little to no effect on empaths other then the point of whats presented: necros steering clear of towns. Szrael your arguement needs to be focused mainly on your guilds underdevelopment.
MATTSMOMMA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 12:19 AM CST
>>Its one thing to complain about empaths being underdeveloped. Its another to whine about necros getting self healing or even an auto empath of their own.
Nobody said anything about them getting an auto empath, have one! I doubt anybody will care
>>A necro self healing will have little to no effect on empaths other then the point of whats presented: necros steering clear of towns.
No, it has everything to do with the fact that empaths have been told year after year that they are cut off from the combat systems because being able to use them PLUS being able to heal themselves would make them far too powerful and is unbalancing.
>>Szrael your arguement needs to be focused mainly on your guilds underdevelopment.
No, her argument is exactly where it should be - pointing out that abilities that have been clearly stated to be completely impractical because it would give one guild too huge of an advantage should go for every other guild as well.
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
Nobody said anything about them getting an auto empath, have one! I doubt anybody will care
>>A necro self healing will have little to no effect on empaths other then the point of whats presented: necros steering clear of towns.
No, it has everything to do with the fact that empaths have been told year after year that they are cut off from the combat systems because being able to use them PLUS being able to heal themselves would make them far too powerful and is unbalancing.
>>Szrael your arguement needs to be focused mainly on your guilds underdevelopment.
No, her argument is exactly where it should be - pointing out that abilities that have been clearly stated to be completely impractical because it would give one guild too huge of an advantage should go for every other guild as well.
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
SYRGICAL
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 12:55 AM CST
>>A necro self healing will have little to no effect on empaths other then the point of whats presented: necros steering clear of towns.
>>No, it has everything to do with the fact that empaths have been told year after year that they are cut off from the combat systems because being able to use them PLUS being able to heal themselves would make them far too powerful and is unbalancing.
Ok...Lemme try this again...A necro self healing will have NO effect on EMPATHS. Its not like they can heal other people. You should see how it turns about before you flame. It could take HOURS IRL to heal as necro as opposed to a empaths touch. Dont whine until you see the final product. And a note on the "Balance Card": Empaths can heal and fight with pets, so the whole throwing off the balance has already been done, along with empaths no longer need other guilds support to circle since they can precieve health and eventualy manipulate as it was designed.
>>No, it has everything to do with the fact that empaths have been told year after year that they are cut off from the combat systems because being able to use them PLUS being able to heal themselves would make them far too powerful and is unbalancing.
Ok...Lemme try this again...A necro self healing will have NO effect on EMPATHS. Its not like they can heal other people. You should see how it turns about before you flame. It could take HOURS IRL to heal as necro as opposed to a empaths touch. Dont whine until you see the final product. And a note on the "Balance Card": Empaths can heal and fight with pets, so the whole throwing off the balance has already been done, along with empaths no longer need other guilds support to circle since they can precieve health and eventualy manipulate as it was designed.
MAEROR
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 02:37 AM CST
The point is that we were told we couldn't have something because it'd upset game balance and then another guild is getting that exact same thing.
I'm okay with necros healing if we get that shock rewrite I've been hearing about for...a while now.
I'm okay with necros healing if we get that shock rewrite I've been hearing about for...a while now.
BLUTURTL1428
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 02:52 AM CST
1. not whining. pointing out the "underdevelopment" of a CURRENT guild.
2. give them an auto path that is fine and there will be empaths that will heal them most likely, but allowing for necro-regen is crossing the line into a healing spell. Keep in mind the empath spells heal the empath not other people, that is what that spell would do.
3. some empaths can out fight thier "pet", so they learn NOTHING when hunting with them and then can not effectively pvp because the "pet" just scratches people to death slowly.
it is frustrating to see something like necros on the horizon, with a spell that trickles into empath territory when there are fixes that need to be made to our guild too.
2. give them an auto path that is fine and there will be empaths that will heal them most likely, but allowing for necro-regen is crossing the line into a healing spell. Keep in mind the empath spells heal the empath not other people, that is what that spell would do.
3. some empaths can out fight thier "pet", so they learn NOTHING when hunting with them and then can not effectively pvp because the "pet" just scratches people to death slowly.
it is frustrating to see something like necros on the horizon, with a spell that trickles into empath territory when there are fixes that need to be made to our guild too.
LORZELOPHIA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 07:14 AM CST
>>And a note on the "Balance Card": Empaths can heal and fight with pets, so the whole throwing off the balance has already been done, along with empaths no longer need other guilds support to circle since they can precieve health and eventualy manipulate as it was designed.
Manipulate was never a good hunting tool. The avenger is currently not a good hunting tool. The avengers cap at something like 1/5th of the potential critter ladder (maybe 1/3rd of the current one...), and that's for an Empath who is 150th circle. So no, Empaths currently do not have reasonable access to the combat system.
We were told that we could not have such access, and that avengers could not be more powerful (or apparently even skill based), because allowing Empaths total access to the combat system with all of their healing abilities would be overpowered.
We were then told that we could have access to some healing and the combat system if we were willing to give up all other aspects of the Empath guild, and never circle, heal, or train Empathy again, essentially becoming armor/weapons tert, self-healing commoners with virtually no other abilities.
>>You should see how it turns about before you flame.
I don't think it's a bad idea to mention that self-healing necros would be ganking the signature ability of the Empath guild, and to register my potential displeasure. Anyway -- I wouldn't mind too much if necromancer's got extremely rudimentary healing (your "hours" scenario), and I understand that Liches will need their own arrangements... but opening this ability up to other guilds at all is a very slippery slope, and scenario that we were explicitly told would lead to an overpowered guild.
If a necromancer wants easy access to healing, he should keep his social outrage down to manageable levels. If not, he should do what any other adventurer who for whatever reason pissed off so many Empaths that none of them will touch him is forced to do -- use herbs or die of your wounds. I'm sure whatever arrangements Necromancers have in lieu of departing will also return you to life in a viable, herb-able state.
Before I played an Empath, I played a Thief who almost never used Empaths (except for death scars, but there was no getting around that.) She uses herbs or dies. Plenty of other players do the same, and so should necromancers.
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
Manipulate was never a good hunting tool. The avenger is currently not a good hunting tool. The avengers cap at something like 1/5th of the potential critter ladder (maybe 1/3rd of the current one...), and that's for an Empath who is 150th circle. So no, Empaths currently do not have reasonable access to the combat system.
We were told that we could not have such access, and that avengers could not be more powerful (or apparently even skill based), because allowing Empaths total access to the combat system with all of their healing abilities would be overpowered.
We were then told that we could have access to some healing and the combat system if we were willing to give up all other aspects of the Empath guild, and never circle, heal, or train Empathy again, essentially becoming armor/weapons tert, self-healing commoners with virtually no other abilities.
>>You should see how it turns about before you flame.
I don't think it's a bad idea to mention that self-healing necros would be ganking the signature ability of the Empath guild, and to register my potential displeasure. Anyway -- I wouldn't mind too much if necromancer's got extremely rudimentary healing (your "hours" scenario), and I understand that Liches will need their own arrangements... but opening this ability up to other guilds at all is a very slippery slope, and scenario that we were explicitly told would lead to an overpowered guild.
If a necromancer wants easy access to healing, he should keep his social outrage down to manageable levels. If not, he should do what any other adventurer who for whatever reason pissed off so many Empaths that none of them will touch him is forced to do -- use herbs or die of your wounds. I'm sure whatever arrangements Necromancers have in lieu of departing will also return you to life in a viable, herb-able state.
Before I played an Empath, I played a Thief who almost never used Empaths (except for death scars, but there was no getting around that.) She uses herbs or dies. Plenty of other players do the same, and so should necromancers.
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
DGUTHRIE2
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 07:42 AM CST
Well said Szrael.
________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
________________________________________
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein
DELVER
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 09:59 AM CST
>The point is that we were told we couldn't have something because it'd upset game balance and then another guild is getting that exact same thing.
It was a suggestion made by a player, not a statement of actuality by one of the developing GMs.
Let's also all please leave the hyberboles out of our posts when stating what we, as Empaths, are and are not capable of with regard to combat, and in particular active combat. Some of you have tested the limitations, but none of our limitations are absolute prohibition from participating.
It is not advisable to embrace an active combat approach given the current mechanics. It may not be after the Shock re-write is out. We certainly could use some improvements in a number of aspects. But ask yourself why you joined the Empath Guild. Most I've talked to didn't do it to be the penultimate hunter. Most I've talked to have questioned my sanity, in game and out, as to why I've played an Empath in Plat the way I have.
I personally don't see that limited "self-healing" really adversely impacts the signature ability of the Empath Guild, which I seem to recall, is to heal others.
Asbhuan/Plat
It was a suggestion made by a player, not a statement of actuality by one of the developing GMs.
Let's also all please leave the hyberboles out of our posts when stating what we, as Empaths, are and are not capable of with regard to combat, and in particular active combat. Some of you have tested the limitations, but none of our limitations are absolute prohibition from participating.
It is not advisable to embrace an active combat approach given the current mechanics. It may not be after the Shock re-write is out. We certainly could use some improvements in a number of aspects. But ask yourself why you joined the Empath Guild. Most I've talked to didn't do it to be the penultimate hunter. Most I've talked to have questioned my sanity, in game and out, as to why I've played an Empath in Plat the way I have.
I personally don't see that limited "self-healing" really adversely impacts the signature ability of the Empath Guild, which I seem to recall, is to heal others.
Asbhuan/Plat
LORZELOPHIA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 10:17 AM CST
>>It was a suggestion made by a player, not a statement of actuality by one of the developing GMs.
It would have been very easy for the Necromancer GMs to assuage our fears (and channel the necromancer spell suggestions into more fruitful avenues) by telling us that non-Lich necromancer healing abilities are not planned, if that was the case.
But they didn't.
I believe that self-healing is just as much a signature Empath ability as healing others. You can't heal others (in the lore of Dragonrealms) without also being able to heal yourself. These spells have also not been released as scrolls or devices (except very briefly, later corrected) because the healing spells have always been considered Empath signatures.
Blood staunch, vitality healing, all of that is fair game, but the ability to consciously and actively repair bodily damage has always been the arena of the Empath guild.
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
It would have been very easy for the Necromancer GMs to assuage our fears (and channel the necromancer spell suggestions into more fruitful avenues) by telling us that non-Lich necromancer healing abilities are not planned, if that was the case.
But they didn't.
I believe that self-healing is just as much a signature Empath ability as healing others. You can't heal others (in the lore of Dragonrealms) without also being able to heal yourself. These spells have also not been released as scrolls or devices (except very briefly, later corrected) because the healing spells have always been considered Empath signatures.
Blood staunch, vitality healing, all of that is fair game, but the ability to consciously and actively repair bodily damage has always been the arena of the Empath guild.
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
DELVER
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 11:33 AM CST
I don't disagree that the suggestion was not immediately quashed.
I do respectfully disagree that self-healing is the sole province of the Empath Guild. There are and have been abilities out there that are limited self-healing. While the suggestion was for a spell, there is some precedent for a limited means through an ability. To my knowledge, those abilities have not adversely impacted the Empath Guild.
Does it send us further down a slippery slope? I personally don't think so.
Just a thought for your (collective) consideration.
Asbhuan/Plat
I do respectfully disagree that self-healing is the sole province of the Empath Guild. There are and have been abilities out there that are limited self-healing. While the suggestion was for a spell, there is some precedent for a limited means through an ability. To my knowledge, those abilities have not adversely impacted the Empath Guild.
Does it send us further down a slippery slope? I personally don't think so.
Just a thought for your (collective) consideration.
Asbhuan/Plat
DIAME
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 01:03 PM CST
So I have a scroll of heal wounds and one of heal scars. I'm assuming they work but maybe not?
MATTSMOMMA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 01:47 PM CST
>>So I have a scroll of heal wounds and one of heal scars. I'm assuming they work but maybe not?
pretty sure that's a tiered spell so no, not unless you know ewh, iwh, esh and ish
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
pretty sure that's a tiered spell so no, not unless you know ewh, iwh, esh and ish
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
LORZELOPHIA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 01:49 PM CST
>>There are and have been abilities out there that are limited self-healing
My line in the sand, from my previous post was,
>>consciously and actively repair bodily damage
So what guilds have spells or abilities that allow them to do this? There are vitality-loss stoppers (ranger beseech, cleric commune, blood staunch on scrolls), damage preventers (flush poison, ...?) and inactive healing abilities (self-raise, which just places the cleric in a viable state).
So which other guilds have abilities that that allow them to actively and consciously repair damage to their bodies?
>>a scroll of heal wounds and one of heal scars.
These have prerequisites. A bard might be able to use them. For a while Leilond had regenerate.
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
My line in the sand, from my previous post was,
>>consciously and actively repair bodily damage
So what guilds have spells or abilities that allow them to do this? There are vitality-loss stoppers (ranger beseech, cleric commune, blood staunch on scrolls), damage preventers (flush poison, ...?) and inactive healing abilities (self-raise, which just places the cleric in a viable state).
So which other guilds have abilities that that allow them to actively and consciously repair damage to their bodies?
>>a scroll of heal wounds and one of heal scars.
These have prerequisites. A bard might be able to use them. For a while Leilond had regenerate.
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
MATTSMOMMA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 01:58 PM CST
There's no point in my empath being an empath if she could be in a guild that has the best of both worlds
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
DEARMANK
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 02:01 PM CST
>>There's no point in my empath being an empath if she could be in a guild that has the best of both worlds
I think the fact that it's illegal to be in that guild and the persecution that they will go through is a good balance. Not saying that I necessarily agree with them getting a healing spell but it's not like they don't have any restrictions
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
I think the fact that it's illegal to be in that guild and the persecution that they will go through is a good balance. Not saying that I necessarily agree with them getting a healing spell but it's not like they don't have any restrictions
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
MATTSMOMMA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 02:29 PM CST
>>I think the fact that it's illegal to be in that guild and the persecution that they will go through is a good balance. Not saying that I necessarily agree with them getting a healing spell but it's not like they don't have any restrictions
So your counter is that it's ok that another guild be able to do what an empath can do plus be able to utilize the systems FULLY that the empath guild is unable to do so because they have to hide their voodoo in town? really?
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
So your counter is that it's ok that another guild be able to do what an empath can do plus be able to utilize the systems FULLY that the empath guild is unable to do so because they have to hide their voodoo in town? really?
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
DEARMANK
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 02:35 PM CST
>>So your counter is that it's ok that another guild be able to do what an empath can do plus be able to utilize the systems FULLY that the empath guild is unable to do so because they have to hide their voodoo in town? really?
I don't think it was ever suggested to be able to do everything an empath can do but with the limitations that are put on them, then yes. Make it a spell that you can only cast when perverse if that makes you feel better. From what I understand you can't hide when perverse
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
I don't think it was ever suggested to be able to do everything an empath can do but with the limitations that are put on them, then yes. Make it a spell that you can only cast when perverse if that makes you feel better. From what I understand you can't hide when perverse
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
MATTSMOMMA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 02:37 PM CST
A guild that's supposed to be more advanced and a challenge to play shouldn't be compensated by giving them abilities to make all of those difficulties easier.
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
TERRA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 02:47 PM CST
>>A guild that's supposed to be more advanced and a challenge to play shouldn't be compensated by giving them abilities to make all of those difficulties easier.<<
This.
~ Terra
This.
~ Terra
DEARMANK
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 02:51 PM CST
A guild that's too difficult to play and have fun won't be played
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
DEARMANK
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 02:53 PM CST
I'm just playing devils advocate here, I don't really care one way or another. I play TF and have a bot empath that can heal me.
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
MATTSMOMMA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 03:01 PM CST
>>A guild that's too difficult to play and have fun won't be played
what about a guild that has limited development and whose primary ability can be duplicated by a guild that has access to all systems?
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
what about a guild that has limited development and whose primary ability can be duplicated by a guild that has access to all systems?
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
DEARMANK
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 03:03 PM CST
>>what about a guild that has limited development and whose primary ability can be duplicated by a guild that has access to all systems?
Will still be played, there's still plenty of things that an empath can do that a necromancer can't even IF they do get a healing spell.
Sounds like you're pretty bitter with the empath guild. Maybe you should change guilds.
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
Will still be played, there's still plenty of things that an empath can do that a necromancer can't even IF they do get a healing spell.
Sounds like you're pretty bitter with the empath guild. Maybe you should change guilds.
Cute verbs and speaking from hiding are excellent ways to catch a lightning bolt in the face regardless of mystical ninja abilities.
-Armifer
MATTSMOMMA
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 03:07 PM CST
>>Will still be played, there's still plenty of things that an empath can do that a necromancer can't even IF they do get a healing spell.
What can an empath do that a necromancer can't if they get regen? Heal others? Ok well you're assuming all empaths like to heal others, many don't. Shift? Perhaps if the system wasn't broken and actually had some substance aside from someone asking for a pretty fluff word every few months.
>>Sounds like you're pretty bitter with the empath guild. Maybe you should change guilds.
I did, after 7 years without development. That has absolutely no impact at all on the discussion however
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
What can an empath do that a necromancer can't if they get regen? Heal others? Ok well you're assuming all empaths like to heal others, many don't. Shift? Perhaps if the system wasn't broken and actually had some substance aside from someone asking for a pretty fluff word every few months.
>>Sounds like you're pretty bitter with the empath guild. Maybe you should change guilds.
I did, after 7 years without development. That has absolutely no impact at all on the discussion however
~Arwinia
Thieves will continue to be dominated by the awesome power of the perceive health ability - that which causes rivers to dry up, babies to cry, and the earth to shake.
Stand back mortal, lest ye health be perceived.
-Ssra
MOD-TNEGAD
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 06:12 PM CST
Watching closely...
just a reminder to keep it productive, away from guild vrs guild, and away from personal attacks....
Board Monitor Tnegad
Please email questions or comments to MOD-Tnegad@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net, or Board Supervisor Cecco at DR-Cecco@play.net. Thank you.
just a reminder to keep it productive, away from guild vrs guild, and away from personal attacks....
Board Monitor Tnegad
Please email questions or comments to MOD-Tnegad@play.net, Senior Board Monitor Annwyl at DR-Annwyl@play.net, or Board Supervisor Cecco at DR-Cecco@play.net. Thank you.
DWARB-POWER
Re: So it Begins
03/06/2009 08:26 PM CST
<<A guild that's supposed to be more advanced and a challenge to play shouldn't be compensated by giving them abilities to make all of those difficulties easier.>>
Almost reminds me of the war mage guild.
- Simon
Almost reminds me of the war mage guild.
- Simon
ENFO13
Re: So it Begins
03/07/2009 02:10 AM CST
The empath guild is already hurting. The learning problems that it has faced in the past have been alleviated the past few years with perceive health, the new teaching system, and the anatomy charts, but in gameplay, the guild is dead. There are more empaths then are needed in urban areas, and in isolated areas, almost everyone has a pet empath account.
As Necros will be the only new guild upon release, there will be a huge influx of population of people playing Necros. If they could self-heal, it means a significant proportion of the active accounts on any given day (around 500 now) will not need the services of the empath.
If Necros are an advanced class.. keep it that way. Have them use herbs. Heck, it might even put some demand on our underused alchemy/tincture/herb market.
As Necros will be the only new guild upon release, there will be a huge influx of population of people playing Necros. If they could self-heal, it means a significant proportion of the active accounts on any given day (around 500 now) will not need the services of the empath.
If Necros are an advanced class.. keep it that way. Have them use herbs. Heck, it might even put some demand on our underused alchemy/tincture/herb market.
EMICARN
Re: So it Begins
03/07/2009 10:55 PM CST
>> If Necros are an advanced class.. keep it that way. Have them use herbs. Heck, it might >> even put some demand on our underused alchemy/tincture/herb market.
When the posts started going in the direction of Necromancer's being SOON [tm] this was my thought. When I played an Empath primary I always thought this might be a good revenue source if this guild was able to forage the herbs, had a spell to make them better possibly, and could use alchemy at a better potency to make salves/potions/etc.
I know my Barb would gladly pay for a full herb pouch from an Empath for those times I'm out in the wilds somewhere to increase my survivability and how long I before I have to run to town.
Just my .02 cents worth.
Cormar Kildan
aka Rich
When the posts started going in the direction of Necromancer's being SOON [tm] this was my thought. When I played an Empath primary I always thought this might be a good revenue source if this guild was able to forage the herbs, had a spell to make them better possibly, and could use alchemy at a better potency to make salves/potions/etc.
I know my Barb would gladly pay for a full herb pouch from an Empath for those times I'm out in the wilds somewhere to increase my survivability and how long I before I have to run to town.
Just my .02 cents worth.
Cormar Kildan
aka Rich
ASTARINEL
Re: So it Begins
03/07/2009 11:00 PM CST
When I played an Empath primary I always thought this might be a good revenue source if this guild was able to forage the herbs, had a spell to make them better possibly, and could use alchemy at a better potency to make salves/potions/etc.
Hahahahaha.
Oh man.
I laughed.
We do, except it's completely useless if we want to give the herbs to someone else to use later! Or use them for alchemy! Or use them at any time other than right then when the mana would be better spent doing something like actually healing ourselves!
:D
Hahahahaha.
Oh man.
I laughed.
We do, except it's completely useless if we want to give the herbs to someone else to use later! Or use them for alchemy! Or use them at any time other than right then when the mana would be better spent doing something like actually healing ourselves!
:D
LORZELOPHIA
Re: So it Begins
03/07/2009 11:09 PM CST
The awesomest part about sprout is that the potency boost is temporary.
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
-- Player of Szrael --
\x'Empathic shock is a purely physical reaction with no moral or ethical component.\r
DWARB-POWER
Re: So it Begins
03/07/2009 11:32 PM CST
I'm not sure if it was explained previously, but why in this instance does the magical affects wear off from an herb since it has been imbued in that herb?
Trying to understand the designer's perspective for coming up with the sprout spell for a guild which can already heal their own wounds. Yes, the guild has an affinity towards herbs but then why would the sprout spell offer a duration for that herb?
Wouldn't it be more suitable to cast at an untainted herb and have it improved up until a point (cap limit)? Also, making it so that one cast is only possible for that one herb so that those who have trained PM could have more usage with the spell.
- Simon
Trying to understand the designer's perspective for coming up with the sprout spell for a guild which can already heal their own wounds. Yes, the guild has an affinity towards herbs but then why would the sprout spell offer a duration for that herb?
Wouldn't it be more suitable to cast at an untainted herb and have it improved up until a point (cap limit)? Also, making it so that one cast is only possible for that one herb so that those who have trained PM could have more usage with the spell.
- Simon
BLUTURTL1428
Re: So it Begins
03/08/2009 12:11 PM CDT
i am just wondering if there is anything about the sprout spell that is useful? i have read thru all the comments about it but i just don't see anything that it does that makes it a desireable spell. i don't use herbs much, unless i am being lazy, and i will usually give people a hard time if they are sitting there chomping away when i would much rather heal them and get the empathy for it.
actually, is there anyone that uses sprout, gol or ad regularly that can tell explain what the spells do for them and when they use them? i am really close to getting the last spell that i "want" and those are the only ones left after, so are they worth the spell slots?
actually, is there anyone that uses sprout, gol or ad regularly that can tell explain what the spells do for them and when they use them? i am really close to getting the last spell that i "want" and those are the only ones left after, so are they worth the spell slots?
DAMEANIE
Re: So it Begins
03/08/2009 12:24 PM CDT
I never picked up Sprout (cause we all know how I feel about dirtgrubbing in the first place...) and I rarely use AD unless I have regen up in combat. Half the time I forget I have it, honestly.
GoL on the other hand, I cast a lot. I like the bump to stamina and concentration I get. It's handy when I'll be getting hit/hurt. I'm not a testing kind of person, normally, so I can't tell you how much it honestly helps, but the emotional feel is that there's some good.
Meli
GoL on the other hand, I cast a lot. I like the bump to stamina and concentration I get. It's handy when I'll be getting hit/hurt. I'm not a testing kind of person, normally, so I can't tell you how much it honestly helps, but the emotional feel is that there's some good.
Meli
LAMBL
Re: So it Begins
03/08/2009 12:40 PM CDT
<<gol or ad>>
I keep GoL up most of the time for the depressingly-insignificant stamina boost (it's like 4 points plus or minus 2 at maximum mana...woo). This is intended to be a minor secondary effect of the spell, but its "primary" effect may as well not even exist. Maybe it will do something once the upcoming healing changes go in.
AD is also woefully underpowered (all things considered), but it does have its uses. If your balance goes down the tubes as a result of a stun (and it somehow didn't deal enough damage to kill you outright), AD is good for bringing you back up to a defensible state quickly so that you're not automatically doomed. You have to have had it up in anticipation of this, though, and it's not exactly foolproof. The vitality drain usually isn't that bad (it's more like recovery prevention than actual drainage), but every once in a while the spell will get into these phases where it drains vitality much more rapidly than usual (I've never been able to figure out why). It also, on occasion, will do a poor job of keeping your balance up. I figure that on average, it tends to keep you at the low end of "incredible", but what seem to be random fluctuations sometimes keep you down in nimble land for several pulses.
Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
I keep GoL up most of the time for the depressingly-insignificant stamina boost (it's like 4 points plus or minus 2 at maximum mana...woo). This is intended to be a minor secondary effect of the spell, but its "primary" effect may as well not even exist. Maybe it will do something once the upcoming healing changes go in.
AD is also woefully underpowered (all things considered), but it does have its uses. If your balance goes down the tubes as a result of a stun (and it somehow didn't deal enough damage to kill you outright), AD is good for bringing you back up to a defensible state quickly so that you're not automatically doomed. You have to have had it up in anticipation of this, though, and it's not exactly foolproof. The vitality drain usually isn't that bad (it's more like recovery prevention than actual drainage), but every once in a while the spell will get into these phases where it drains vitality much more rapidly than usual (I've never been able to figure out why). It also, on occasion, will do a poor job of keeping your balance up. I figure that on average, it tends to keep you at the low end of "incredible", but what seem to be random fluctuations sometimes keep you down in nimble land for several pulses.
Thanks,
-Death's Nemesis Karthor
