"The version in 2.0 was insanely powerful, so please don't be disappointed that this version won't go to the extremes that the old version did."

Slightly disappointed but not unexpected. 2.0 was insanely powerful and I loved it.



"While working on this spell, and specifically tying it into Hydra Hex, it became clear that HyH was nowhere near as difficult as it should be."

I am concerned about this. Because of tying Debilitation to TM to be effective, my Debilitiation is now my lowest magic skill- though it is boostable of course. I am concerned that my 500 plus in Debilitation may make this spell less useful for combat- while still good for training.

To me the real practical advantage(other than training) of HyH is so that I don't have manage what creatures are cursed or not- I just hope this version is usable and useful in combat for Flavius.

Thanks for getting COZ out, thanks for all of the work on this.

>>Slightly disappointed but not unexpected. 2.0 was insanely powerful and I loved it.

Yeah, the old version of CoZ would reduce a target's damage potential to 0 at the high end of the spell. That is no longer ever possible.

>>To me the real practical advantage(other than training) of HyH is so that I don't have manage what creatures are cursed or not- I just hope this version is usable and useful in combat for Flavius.

It will still be very usable. In the case of CoZ and Malediction, the debuff applied even for the lower mana cast is pretty advantageous. And with the pulses sped up, it does end up drawing much more mana than it did before, it also applies itself to creatures before they reach melee much more often, and ensures that the debuff doesn't drop before the new one applies which could happen during the longer pulse times.

This new version is certainly more expensive now, but it should be more expensive to apply a debilitation spell across a group of targets and to keep repeating the effects. This change also means that HyH can be used to train for much longer as well.

AGM Ricinus
Dev Systems
Cleric Advocate

the hyh/debil change is not something that is really gonna be a game changer. I would consider a look at damage from FoU though...in 3 days of my testing using HyH with male/off so I can hunt "at level" I have cast over 200 FoU's at 65 mana and killed a grand total of 3 zombie maulers. If I need to use dilbils to hunt at level where I learn TM....the TM should at least kill on par with the mana. I can kill a mauler with 3 to 4 casts of min prep horns....I can't kill one with 15, 20, 30 casts of FoU at higher mana. I also have the undead TM boost up. In order to maintain a cyclic debil in the now new way, plus be able to cast FoU at high enough mana, I literally have to take about a minute between FoU casts for mana regen.

I get this message.

>
The blanket of oily copper-red rust surrounding you suddenly agitates, sending filthy bits of rancid leavings upward around you.
The castoff flecks fade to black then vanish as they touch Sydnee.
Nothing happens since Sydnee is not wearing armor or holding weapons.

Everyone else sees this.



>
Nothing happens.

Everyone in the room sees that message, it really is neat.

"Yeah, the old version of CoZ would reduce a target's damage potential to 0 at the high end of the spell."

You make that sound like a bad thing......

I loved Flavius being immune to Adanf warriers....until COZ faded....

Like I said- I fully expected that to change.

Speaking of another ability deemed too powerful- would it break anything now to say exactly what the offensive and defensive bonuses actually were?

I am guessing that the offensive bonus was a 10-20% bonus with no cap. Just curious now that my favorite commune has gone away.

I actually did a bad seque trying to ask what the now extinct offensive commune bonus was- I am just curious after all these years to know what it was and how it worked.

<Use other spells>

well with the amount of mana I have to put into maintaining hyh, I can no longer hunt where I learn TM due to needing more mana to maintain hyh. I am faced with learning debil and defenses, and getting my TM from classes, or not hunting at level thus gaining defenses and treasure, but no debil or TM. All things being equal, the mana cost to hunt at level for those skills, is extremely hampering. I am looking at a few months of training defenses just so I can hunt where my magic trains. I have already moved several rungs back down the critter ladder from where I was pre-3.0. Now I have to move further down, to back train defenses so I can move back up the ladder. I wasn't expecting to jump right back into high lvl celps with 3.0, but I was at least expecting at circle 131, to be able to hunt where I was able to in 2.0 at circle 80 or 90.

I don't like the pulse change to Hyh...certaining uses more mana than it did before because of that, so may we can look into that. I not sure how the old pulse timing would be with COZ...but the mana drain was a lot easier to control.

I suggest using SOL. All my cleric uses is SOL, PFE, Benediction, and Hyh 16 prep to hunt scorps. THats with 250-260 defensives, and he never gets touched. With no SOL, but MAPP and MPP, he gets eat up still. As far as MAPP and MPP not noticing a huge buff like SOL is doing. Different buffs of course, but probably those buffs help more or less depending on what you fight.

hell of a call there. defensive spells up, buffs up, SAP up on debil, Mer Commune up, min prep hyh did nothing and was killed inside 30 seconds...that was MUCH better then using a 25 prep HyH. Would love to see how you make it work fine and I am killed inside 30 seconds doing the exact same thing.

parry stance

parry 100
evasion 62
shield 25

all armor pristine

no encumbrance

with Mer commune, Hyh is keeping me at 45 to 57%(a 20 mana hyh cast since it needs that much to land) ....one TM cast down to 34% second TM cast down to 20% third TM cast down to 9%...not sure what you are using Rici, but is sure ain my skills and stats

Could you consolidate your posts to a single post, rather than 4000 individual single sentence thoughts?

In addition to being annoying, it makes it difficult to read or track what you're doing, if someone isn't inclined to hit the 'view last page' button and has read 1/3 your posts already.

---

Note: this is not a plug for Genie or Elanthipedia or Mars Bars.

Holy Magic: 868 64% focused (20/34) Attunement: 892 18% clear (0/34)
Arcana: 760 00% clear (0/34) Targeted Magic: 640 29% examining (13/34)
Augmentation: 771 43% clear (0/34) Debilitation: 689 32% studious (19/34)
Utility: 653 77% clear (0/34) Warding: 616 14% clear (0/34)
Theurgy: 612 02% intrigued (16/34)

guessing you are WELL above me cause a 25 HyH keeps me between 35 and 57% mana. Casting a FoU at 60 drops me to under 30%

>>here's your min prep hyh....

You may want to consider trying with Auspice and/or GG - since those would have a massive direct effect for Spirit contested debilitation spells. With a capped Auspice alone (and using your skills and stats still) I went from missing 100% of the time with a min prep HyH to hitting 100% in maulers. You may notice that these numbers are a little different than what I first posted, since the room I went to try hunting in was stompers before, which was where you were hunting when I started attempting to offer you assistance.

>>not sure what you are using Rici, but is sure ain my skills and stats

I'll look into the possibility that our player copy utility isn't working as intended.

AGM Ricinus
Dev Systems
Cleric Advocate

>>well just killed 25 maulers using my 526 brawlin in about 10 minutes....can't kill 25 maulers using my 600's 700's 800's magics in 30 minutes. Is this intended?

What spells are you using, and are you aligned to a TM diety?

Maulers (and all the zombie variants in Boar Clan) are extremely resistant to fire, and many of the Cleric spells are fire-heavy. I'd recommend HORN or FF.

Jarrett- you didn't give us an idea of what your defenses are.

But Flavius was hunting Head Splitters and Maulers in 2.0 and is hunting them again in 3.0.

There are different challenges but somethings remain the same.

FOU and HH are very inefficient for killing Zombies- frankly most of our spells seem to be now- in 2.0 I was killing them with FF but FF doesn't seem very effiicent for it now.

But I just went in and tried Maulers out with the new Mal, and did just fine- locked Debi and TM, then started killing Maulers- to kill them with TM takes combination of spells to do well. Got a couple minor hits and was stunned once.

Flavius's defenses are in the 550-580 range and that might be the difference.

My suggestion is:
a) use SOL
b) use a better stance- Flavius uses 100 Shield/80 evasion/8 parry. This combination takes advantage of our two defensive boosts, while still giving a little parry training.

Ricinus- it might be worth looking at the damage types in our TM spells. HE/HH/FOU/AE/FF all seem heavily fire based. In my humble opinion no one should be better at killing zombies with TM than clerics but our TM spells seem rather under powered against them and it may be because so much of our damage is fire based.

Ricinus:
I'll look into because I think HH and HE should be more usable on undead even when they have strong elemental resistances

Great- thanks.

Would it break anything to give us some info on the damage components of our TM spells?

SaP - Debil? I'm not sure what Male contests, but I'm fairly comfortable claiming Clerics have a buff for that. Benediction, Auspice, or GJ?

What's your debilitation at?

You're making a few claims here (you need debil to train TM, you need FoU to train TM...) that suggest you just need to experiment a bit more, not that Clerics are now broken.