I will try to make it. It's been awhile- will be interesting to see who shows up.

Flavius

Unfortunately, I'm also busy at that time on a Tuesday.

Ditto! Wish I could go, but someone drop me a line about it afterwards, or post a short-simple writeup of what was discussed (Since elvis hates logs, no logs, plus I just want the basic info not the really detailed GM-says).

Sorry again about the list-thing R, I swear I thought no one ever pulled those things out and checked them.

---

Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.

Summary:

New skill Theurgy. Many more devotion rituals and communes both. It will be a dynamic system instead of the current 'max devotion and keep it there, pray a couple times if you use a commune'.

Antinomic Sorcery will consist of things like myths and religious stuff outside the 13 cannon.

Then lots of Evro not understanding Cleric abilities or how to use them, and crying about overpowered necromancers.

Tamsine's commune is becoming the vehicle for our Undead combat abilities.
Eluned's first is becoming a water summoning ability.
As was stated, more communes in the future with additional ways to gain devotion with. Additionally there may come an Aspected form of communes/rituals akin to the Elemental charge function for Warrior Mages and uh, well I forget the other example.

>Antinomic Sorcery

Are there any spell ideas behind the scenes for this? Curious how far in development this branch actually is. I imagine it's a "won't make 3.0" kind of thing but it'd be nice to know if something could be expected to come of it reasonably soon. Also curious what effects cleric sorcery is designed for. The e-pedia entry for it is pretty vague.

Ricinus exclaims, "Ok, so first off, welcome all!"

Ricinus says, "I'm glad to have you here to talk about some future development stuff for the guild."

Ricinus says, "I guess I'll start with some of the direction ideas so you will all have time to formulate questions and such."

Ricinus says, "So as you all know, we've got some major changes coming up with X3, Magic, Skill etc."

Ricinus says, "And there's some cleric changes that many of you I'm sure are aware of, especially considering the new cleric skill."

Your mind hears Walcar thinking, "You here that, No clerics for awhile, so keep your deaths to yourself"

Ricinus says, "One of the major directions I'll be working toward with X3 in mind is a number of additional ways to train this new skill."

Evro asks, "Theology? or hatever it will be called?"

Tabinia says, "Theurgy."

Ricinus says, "There are two major ways to train the skill, devotional rituals, and using communes."

Ricinus nods to Tabinia.

Ricinus says, "Devotional rituals award a little bit, communes award a bit more."

Ricinus says, "I am hoping to expand on both greatly."

Ricinus says, "As far as devotionals go, I've gotten started on a few already."

Ricinus says, "And most of the ones I'm starting with are geared more toward clerics that enjoy the darker aspects of life."

Ricinus says, "Because the lighter/neutral ones already have a nice head start."

Vaerik says, "I am kinda tired of planting flowers."

Ricinus says, "It's ok, other ones will come along."

Ricinus nods to Vaerik.

Ricinus says, "And that's why I'm getting some good basic dark rituals started."

Vaerik sarcastically says, "Hey Aldauth, I grew a pretty flower for you."

Ricinus says, "The two devotions I currently have approval for are..."

Ricinus says, "A blood sacrifice."

Ricinus says, "Good old fashioned spilling of one's own blood."

Ricinus says, "And the offering of stolen goods."

Ricinus says, "Both will need to be done at dark altars."

Tabinia asks, "How do ye know they are stolen?"

Evro says, "The Idon followers will love that."

Ricinus says, "Albreda will nto be interested."

Ricinus coughs.

Ricinus says, "Not even..."

Ricinus says, "Oh, the gods know all."

Ricinus says, "Next up, I'll be doing some work with communes as well."

Ricinus says, "Now as you may know, the Tamsin commune and the Eluned(1) commune are both not liked by the powers that be for their flagrant violation of global caps."

Ricinus says, "I think it has already been mentioned on the forums that the Tamsine commune was going to be changed to a TM bonus to undead."

Evro says, "Useless mostly."

Ricinus says, "The Eluned commune is going to be changed to provide clerics with a source of water."

Evro says, "Also useless."

Ricinus chuckles.

Ricinus says, "It'll be more useful when the free water exploit gets turned off."

Nicolet says, "I like that actually."

Ricinus says, "And since it's something clerics need on a regular basis, makes for a nice way to handle training the theurgy skill without having to just fire off random communes."

Ricinus says, "Well, we'll all have a new way to get free water, and it'll train our required skills instead of making a weird message about blood that isn't there."

Mircea asks, "But can we still do blood to water?"

Ricinus says, "Sure! But only in that room that has the blood."

Ricinus says, "The water commune will at early levels be used to fill up a container, vial, whatever."

Ricinus says, "But with more skill (in theurgy) you'll be able to make an actual water source people can fill up containers with."

Ricinus exclaims, "Ok... next!"

Ricinus says, "I've gotten approval for a new commune to be written."

Ricinus says, "This commune will be for Botolf, and he's a big fan of it."

Ricinus says, "It will provide a bonus to pleading innocent."

Ricinus says, "It may not be for everyone, so I'm going to try and keep it optional."

Ricinus says, "And I'm sure during the quest you'll be required to do something vile."

Ricinus says, "I think that's about it for specifics that are already approved for work."

Ricinus says, "But there's a bigger picture I'm looking at, and it requires lots of input from folks."

Ricinus says, "The big picture I'm kicking around, and I do mean just kicking around, is possibly splitting devotion into the 3 aspects."

Nicolet says, "That's interesting."

Ricinus says, "So if there were enough dark, light, and neutral devotions and communes a cleric could follow a path rather than having all clerics have the same abilities."

Evro says to Ricinus, "I got input there.....if the communes aren't any better then they are now....then Theurgy will be a dead skill that will hold everyone back....no one uses the communes now cause they suck and the devotion hit to use them is too high."

Ricinus says, "The idea I'm working toward at the moment, is that all clerics would get the neutral communes, they'd be the bread and butter type things."

Vaerik says, "Uh."

Vaerik says, "You're wrong Evro."

Vaerik says, "We have some amazing communes."

Vaerik says, "That require such little devotion hit, devotion becomes a non-entity."

Nicolet says, "Exactly."

Vaerik says, "If i can keep defense/offense communes up round-the-clock, with nothing more than pray aldauth to keep my devotion maxed."

Ricinus says, "Then clerics could pick and choose a bit on the dark and light side."

Evro says to Vaerik, "Yeah try using em when the skill boost is less thenyou can get from not using em and using spells."

Ricinus says, "Ok, lets save the questions for a few moment."

Vaerik says, "No wonder you die every time you attempt conflict."

Evro says to Vaerik, "Actually I use the communes.....thats how useless they are....thank you for proving my point."

Ricinus says, "So some clerics may want only light communes."

Ricinus says, "Others only dark."

Vaerik asks, "What's the ultimate goal of 'aspecting' though?"

Ricinus says, "Some folks will try to get a mix of the two, but keeping all three devotions up high enough to use all three will mean a lot of work."

Vaerik asks, "Is using aspected communes both the vehicle AND the goal?"

Silque says, "Would there be benifits to communing light or dark."

Ricinus says, "Well, the main benefit is to give folks abilities that fit their playstyle and ways to train that fit their RP."

Ricinus says, "Not every cleric wants to plant flowers."

Mircea says to Silque, "Flip side of making mechanical benefits to picking a side means that people will pick sides for bennies."

Ricinus says, "A number of the current communes will be rewritten to give more use to them."

Uritel says, "Maybe sacrifice other people's blood, too.."

Ricinus says, "Some may turn into light aspect communes."

Ricinus says, "In the short run, basically you folks are going to get more abilities."

You ask, "Would there be a way to swap if you have a "crisis of faith" eventually?"

Ricinus says, "The details haven't been panned out for anything specific."

Vaerik asks, "How would you make the light/dark separate but equal?"

Vaerik asks, "I'm imagining something like...defense would be a light commune, offense would be a dark?"

Ricinus says, "Could be..."

Mircea asks Ricinus, "I like it in concept, but would you consider splitting devotion neutral communes into say 50% neutral, 25% positive, 25% negative?"

Ricinus says, "But really, no matter which direction we go in, some folks are going to be whatever they will be to have the abilities they want."

Evro says, "I don't much like a new skill that requires communes to learn unless the communes will be at least equal to the spells we already have....especially considering that you'll have to do devotionals to regain the devotion to use them."

Vaerik says, "Communes don't need to be equal to spells because they're not mutually exclusive."

Ricinus says, "Ok, I'm going to open the list of for some questions."

Evro is next.

Evro says, "Ok if we need to use communes to learn Theurgy....and communes use devotion....and devotions take whatever amount of time to raise it....isn't that just a whole circle of "do this to be able to do this, but then you have to do this again"....instead of getting deotion back like mana or spirit clerics will have to spend a great deal of time doing things that aren't worth doing to do things that aren't worth doing."

Ricinus says, "Well, I think if development doesn't happen some folks will think this."Ricinus says, "And that's why this is the primary thing I'm working on moving forward."
>
Evro says, "Do devotionals to raise devotion....so you can use communes....then have to do devotionals again to raise devotion so you can use communes."

Ricinus says, "Devotionals should be part of a Cleric's everyday life."

Ricinus says, "It's what keeps them close to the gods."

You hear a voice say, "For what it's worth, that's also how Moon Mages and the new Warrior Mage special ability schemes also work."

Ricinus says, "I'm really hoping that once more work goes into devotions and communes, this becomes less of an issue for folks."

Evro says, "They are part of daily life....ever try to commune merauld or Truffenyi? takes a day or so to get the devotion back."

Ricinus says, "Before there was a skill it could be argued that it wasn't very important, but it will be coming up."

Ricinus says, "I have, and it doesn't."

Ricinus says, "But with more devotions that can be done, this time will be lessened since you can do more in less time."

Ricinus says, "Ok, gonna move on to the next."

Evro asks, "There are what? 15 18 devotionals ya can do now? maybe more?"

Vaerik is next.

Vaerik says, "Right, so not sure if this will be covered in this meeting."

Vaerik says, "If not you can just move along to the next person."

Vaerik asks, "Anything you can tell us about our upcoming special brand of sorcery?"

Ricinus says, "Well, nothing as of yet."

The air shimmers for a moment as Armifer's spell ends and he becomes visible once more.

Ricinus exclaims, "Special guest to answer that!"

Ricinus says, "Because I have nothing on that area."

Armifer says, "Currently for the Cleric high sorcery we have a concept down but no spells planned at the moment. Focus has been on trying to get the normal Cleric spellbooks fleshed out, and we've generally succeeded at doing so."

Armifer says, "Conceptually, it's Antinomic Sorcery, the sorcery is imposing your will on the Law. This has the effect of playing with the idea of "unofficial" mythologies and stuff the Temple doesn't normally support."

Armifer says, "Like what would happen if Elves actually, literally Faded."

Armifer says, "Or get some World Dragon love going on. Stuff like that."

Armifer says, "That's the gist that we're able to share at the moment."

Vaerik asks, "So basically religious stuff outside the 13?"

Armifer says, "Outside the 13 and its common canon, yeah."

Vaerik says, "Awesome."

Ricinus says, "Thanks Armifer."

Vaerik asks, "I'm guessing the 'catch' would be something like tanking devotion?"

Ricinus says, "Or 'catch' you on fire."
>
Armifer says, "Probably not tanking it, but limiting your ability to use it temporarily is a possibility."

You hear a voice say, "OR CATCH YOU IN THE RED SPIRAL, HEATHEN."

Ricinus laughs!

You hear a voice say, "Sorry. I get excited."

Vaerik says, "Thanks for your time."

Mircea is next.

Mircea says, "Well, huh."

Mircea says, "That's a good lead up to my question. But first, how many GMs are there in the audience, since you guys seem to have popped up out of hiding."

Armifer says, "As many as are necessary at the moment."

Armifer says, "We're sort of amorphous that way."

Ricinus exclaims, "We're everywhere!"

Tenike went through a large stone archway.

Mircea says, "But as for my actual question, how much support is there going to be for the Triquetra. As I told someone earlier, AFAIK, at present, it's in 2 spells and the Pray ritual."

Ricinus says, "I'd love to slowly tie in more."

Mircea says, "I PARTICULARLY like it for Resurrection, being "non-aligned", what with "prayer to the Gods" and all that rather than "blah blah to X God."

Ricinus says, "Right now time spent is mostly on getting the M3 stuff done, and then working on the biggest things I think clerics will face adventuring in 3.0."

Mircea says, "So, I guess I'm saying, I'm hoping to at least keep what we've got."

Armifer says, "Keep in mind that support for alternate beliefs is going to always be a bit of a side job since, ICly speaking, the Clerics Guild is the Temple of the 13 Immortals. They get pride of place."

Ricinus says, "Now, while stuff like that is getting working on, if there's places to tie in Triquetra stuff, I'd be happy to do it."

Mircea says, "That's it for me."

Tabinia is next.

Tabinia says, "Hey there."

Tabinia says, "Prayer Parchments."

Ricinus ponders.

Tabinia asks, "I sent a prayer in to Grejuva already. Do ye know off the top of yer head how many are for each aspect? Do ye need more for certain ones?"

Tabinia says, "I'd be happy to provide some."

Ricinus says, "From what I hear that prayer is in QC currently."

Tabinia asks, "Also in 3.0 will prayers be more effective in restoring devotion?"

Tabinia says, "I love the prayer aspect."

Tabinia says, "I'm nae talking about praying to a god's name."

Tabinia says, "I'm talking about the prayer parchments."

Ricinus says, "Well, I'm sure there will be lots of rebalancing and tweaking with devotion gains and losses."

Tabinia says, "It has been a while since I've prayed at a shrine."

Tabinia asks, "But how about we get a small boost if we pray at the appropriate area?"

Ricinus says, "And I've been told there's around 35 or so parchements currently."

Tabinia says, "Also, there is one prayer parchment that will nae go into my tome."

Ricinus says, "That might be something to consider while devotion work is being done."

Tabinia says, "It has a day and night prayer on it."

Tabinia nods to Ricinus.

Tabinia asks, "Know of any tricks to get it to work with the tome?"

Tabinia asks, "Or am I out of luck?"

Ricinus asks, "I haven't worked with the prayer tomes or the parchments yet, have you assisted about it not working?"

Tabinia says, "Nae."

Tabinia says, "I've been in and out of the realms for a while."

Tabinia says, "So have nae had time."

Ricinus says, "Ah, that day and night one works a bit different I'm told."

Tabinia says, "I'll try to get it looked at later this week."

Tabinia asks, "Oh?"

Ricinus says, "So I think it's intentional that it doesn't fit."

Tabinia asks, "So does nae work with the tome?"

Tabinia says, "Ah alright then."

Ricinus nods to Tabinia.

Tabinia says, "That's all."

Ricinus says, "Ok."

Evro is next.

Ricinus exclaims, "Hi again!"

Evro says, "Will the regaining of devotion be easier since communes will be requierd.....currently if I use Merauls's twice...its takes me a few days to get the devotion back."

Evro says, "Even longer if I use Truffenyi's."

Ricinus says, "There will be balancing to make sure that clerics can train their skill apropriately."

Evro says, "I just don't want to have my days turn into rituals and communes and rituals again so I can use communes."

Ricinus says, "Well, the hope is have more things to do regardless, so at least if you had to stop by an altar a few times a day you might be able to gain mroe devotion on each visit from performing multiple rites."

Ricinus says, "And abilities that are more daily usable than some that are currently out there to make training better."

Ricinus exclaims, "Ok, next!"
>
Vaerik is next.

Vaerik says, "Real quick question."

Ricinus exclaims, "Shoot!"

Vaerik says, "Since you're adding or have added support for the Triquetra for certain guild spells/abilities."

Vaerik asks, "What about Rakash gods or the World Dragon as well?"

Ricinus says, "Not anything planned."

Ricinus says, "But those subjects could easily get more love with sorcerous spells."

Armifer says, "Rakash gods are a possibility down the line. World Dragon, not outside of sorcery."

Vaerik nods.

Valkri is next.

Valkri asks, "Welcome to the Guild. Sorry for being late and probably missing the meat of the meeting. I am hearing that there is a consideration to do a 3-way split on the communes. Does that mean some new quests, and of course FUN, quests for us to go on when this happens?"

Ricinus exclaims, "Hi, and thanks!"

Ricinus says, "Yeah, but bear in mind, the idea of splitting devotion is just being discussed."

Ricinus says, "There are no plans or work being done toward that."

Valkri asks, "Would you be accepting suggestions?"

Ricinus says, "Absolutely."

Ricinus says, "That's one major reason for this meeting."

Valkri says, "And of course, I've been asking this for over 10 years now...."

Valkri asks, "How about avatars to control similar to what other guilds have in the forms of familiars, shadowlings, etc?"

Valkri says, "Give us something to battle the necromancer constructs and zombies."

Ricinus says, "There aren't any plans for that sort of thing."

Ricinus says, "Except for the Lyba spell."

Valkri asks, "Why is there so much resistance in getting us something to help against the necros?"

Armifer says, "The Cleric/Necro dynamic is already one-sided, and it's not the Necros that get the better end of the stick."

Ricinus says, "And future communes, might involve things that give out some sort of ability that can be used in the good fight against encros."

Valkri nods to Ricinus.

Ricinus says, "But I don't have any approved plans for anything of that nature just yet."

Valkri says, "That would be nice, but I will continue requesting my vulture for the next decade if need be."

Valkri says, "Thanks for helping us out and taking on this motley crew."

Ricinus says, "Any time."

Evro is next.

Evro says, "Ok how exactly is the cleric/necro skills tilted in favor of clerics....they have invisibility, more then a few AoE spells, the ability to create constructs and zombies that have the same skills they have....where we clerics have....what? MF."

Evro says, "Thats like saying cleric have the same defensive abilites as a paladin....or the same offense as a WM."

Ricinus says, "Well, I don't really want to get into a guild vs guild discussion."

Evro says, "In case you aren't watching...the necros win alost every time."

Armifer says, "Clerics, in addition to having one of the few means to detect Necros supernaturally, gain the benefit of using most of their "against cursed" abilities against sufficiently high Necros, including an armor and shield ignoring TM spell."

Armifer says, "And no, I wouldn't say Clerics have the same defense as Paladins Eluned's Commune is better than anything Paladins get."

Armifer says, "That's why it's going away."

Evro asks Armifer, "Let me ask you this.....what spell do clerics have against necros in hiding?"

Ricinus says, "Revelation."

Armifer says, "Revelation."

Evro says, "Revalation sucks."

Ricinus says, "I disagree."

Armifer says, "You seem to think that about a lot of the Cleric tool set. I am sorry to hear that."

Ricinus says, "FoU is good too."

Ricinus says, "And Halo."

Evro says, "Revalation does nothing but show the aura of a necro in their invisibility."

Armifer says, "It can get you the spot effect if you're skilled enough."

Evro says, "FoU is limited to non justice zones."

Armifer says, "Clerics have ample tools if they are willing to learn how to use them."

Ricinus says, "Well, less limited if Botolf is on your side."

Evro says, "Halo only matters if they advance."

Ricinus says, "We've had a number of these sorts of discussion on the boards as well."

Evro says to Armifer, "Are you telling me that my 117th circle but and Valkri's 110th and Liurilas's 150th are stupid and haven't figured out how to combat necros."

You hear a voice say, "Just spend some time with Tyrun. He's pretty much your poster boy for how to use the tools you've got in a nonsensically effective way."

Armifer says, "I haven't called anyone stupid, nor do I think circle has much to do with stupidity."

Evro says, "Way to defend an over powered guild but saying its not them its you."

Armifer says, "But I will say, from listening to you talk this evening, you are not fully exploiting your guild."

Ricinus says, "Many times it comes down to skills. If someone has 100 ranks in hiding you may have a hard time seeing them even with revelation. But most times they earned the right not to be seen."

Ricinus says, "That was supposed to be 1000."

Ricinus says, "Ok, moving on to the next question."

Mircea is next.

Mircea says, "That was worth giving up my first place in line."

Mircea says, "Anyways, mine has to do with communes and material components. Are they still going to be the same stuff? IT seems, what with all the new crafting, that "old" and "new" are really two completely separate things."

Ricinus says, "I think there may be some spots where skins need to be updated."

Mircea asks, "So, if we get "new" communes/rituals, are we going to have to throw out all our water, incense, prayer badgers, etc. etc.?"

Ricinus says, "Aside from that all new communes will require some sort of ritual item."

Mircea says, "Er, *badges."

Jaedren says, "I like prayer badgers better."

Ricinus says, "Well, if alchemy comes out with a craftable incense some changes will have to happen."

Ricinus says, "But I don't see an issue with other items coming up."

Ricinus says, "If anything it'll just be some new ritual items that you'll need."

Mircea says, "Just wondering, because my prayer badge is fairly new, and there's at least 3 shrines that don't exist any more that I can't get."

Ricinus nods to Mircea.

Mircea says, "And it's kind of a pain to have to go around Elanthia visiting them all, already did that twice because I liked my new one better than my plain "prayer badge."

Mircea says, "Especially Aesry."
>
Mircea shudders.

Ricinus says, "I might think up a way to transfer badges over, it's certainly worth considering."

Valkri adds her name to the speaker's list.

Ricinus says, "And I'll add it to things to look into."

Kodius fades into view.

Mircea says, "That's it. For now."

Ricinus says, "Ok."

Tyrun is next.

Tyrun says, "So, my question is regarding Idon's theft and sorcery."

Ricinus cackles!

Tyrun says, "I was curious if our rate of backfire with other mana types will remain stagnant or change for better."

Tyrun says, "Or if Idon's theft itself is a candidate as a sorcery spell."

Tyrun says, "Given its function."

Armifer says, "Idon's Theft isn't a sorcerous spell, but caveat magus."

Tyrun says, "Also, clerics are overpowered, not necromancers. I said it. I said it."

Tyrun asks, "What does that imply for the backfire rate?"

Armifer says, "No change."

Tyrun says, "S'all I got then."

Ricinus says, "Ok."

Tyrun says, "Thanks for your time."

Valkri is next.

Valkri asks, "Two quick things... One, can we get the temple in Langenfirth updated a little bit? How about expanding it to priory?"

Ricinus says, "Well, Lang is a kinda small place."

Valkri says, "And two, I'd like to personally invite Tyrun to attend the next several Cleric Teaching Nights to give us all pointers on how to be a better cleric against necromancers and use our skills appropriately."

Valkri says, "I know...but priories are cool. And I want a Prioress title."

Ricinus says, "I've always gottent eh impression that little temple is plenty big enough for a small fishing village."

Valkri says, "That's about it for me."

Ricinus says, "Well, I'll let Tyrun answer that last one."

Valkri says, "I'll get with him."

Ricinus exclaims, "NEXT!"

Mircea is next.

Mircea says, "Yeah, me again."

Ricinus exclaims, "Hi!"

Mircea asks, "Seeing Kodius reminded me. What's the latest status on prayer beads as pertains to 3.0?"

Ricinus glances at Kodius.

Kodius says, "Well, right now I am tied up with some 3.0 things, and working mostly on enchanting of all things."

Kodius says, "Bone carving is likely coming out with that, and then I'll be onto wood shaping."

Kodius says, "Wood shaping is where prayer beads are going to sit, and I hope to get them mostly converted over when I do so."

Kodius says, "Various tweaks will be made so even inexperienced clerics can hope to get some feel good out of them without being a master carver."

Evro adds his name to the speaker's list.

Mircea asks, "And they'll still be usable for making favor orbs or offering up for devotion?"

Kodius says, "Yup, that is the plan. Whatever they currently do, they'll do then."

Ricinus says, "And as more crafting stuff comes out, I'd like to have ways for clerics to use crafted items to work on devotion."

Ricinus says, "I'd hate for every cleric to feel the need to work one discipline just for devotion reasons."

Mircea says, "Ok, although right now, I really love them, I haven't timed it, but they seem to teach mech lore rather quickly compared to braiding, though I don't have all that high of a Mech Lore."

Kodius nods.

Kodius says, "Everything will be going under the new crafting umbrella, mostly to fix these incredibly easy ways to train your skills."

Mircea says, "Actually, I give them to alts for specific deity favor orbs, I don't really toss them for devotion."

Kodius says, "Only true crafters will get to the good stuff."

Mircea says, "But just because I don't, doesn't mean others don't, or that I might one day do it for devotion."

Jaedren says, "You know what grinds my gears about bead carving? I forage up this giant branch, and then chuck all but a tiny beads worth of it away."

Ricinus exclaims to Jaedren, "Sticks! Not branches!"

Ricinus says, "Sheesh...."

Jaedren says, "Those too."

Mircea says, "I do oak limbs."

Mircea says, "Anyways, that's it from me again. For now."

Ricinus says, "Ok, good stuff."

Jaedren says, "You all know what I mean."

Jaedren shakes his fist angrily!

Evro is next.

Evro says, "To continue on what Mircea said....we currently have a mech lore req....will that translate into a creation req? will we be required to join the crafting/creation system."

Ricinus says, "Nope."

Ricinus says, "You can get your cleric on without doing crafting specifically, there are enough lore skills otherwise to train."

Evro says, "Ah ok.....I really don't wanna have to learn how to make furniture....rather wait til I can enchant things."

Exorcist Tabinia went through a large stone archway.

Kodius says, "Chair of dismemberment."

Evro says to Kodius, "If you code that I'll make it."

Ricinus says, "Well, that's once of the reasons that I'd like more devotions with other crafts, in case folks want to enchant a way to gain devotion."

Armifer says, "The new reqs require you to learn four Lore skills with none of them hard set."

Evro says to Ricinus, "That would be awesome."

Ricinus says, "I like more too."

Ricinus exclaims, "Next!"

Evro says, "I wanna be able to enchant a blessed sword of GM DOOM."

Mircea is next.

Ricinus says to Evro, "We have anti-player shields."

Mircea says, "Yeah, tagging back on Evro's question, I think Soch made our reqs too easy, not even a Scholarship Hard req. Thank god, I'm happy enough to not need Teaching."

Kodius glances at Ricinus.

Kodius says, "We can fix too easy."

Ricinus nods to Kodius.

Nicolet just left.

Ricinus says, "We'll get on that then."

Ricinus says, "Good question."

Ricinus asks, "Whi kodius Double everything?"

Ricinus says, "Oops."

Kodius says, "The choosable lore may have had that in mind."

Mircea says, "Anything but primary weapon."

Kodius says, "Either go crafting, or swap it out for scholarship. Pick your poison."

Kodius says, "But we'll discuss it."

Mircea says, "I think I'm actually out of questions to ask."

Mircea says, "I'm reaching."

Ricinus says, "Ok."

Tyrun is next.

Tyrun says, "I require the following: one hand bejeweled with linking rings of unquestionable indication of my magnanimity -- that upon being kissed by persons of sufficient circle, when placed upon my carefully manicured fingers, grants me devotion. Auction item? Enchanting? I don't question your means, gentlemen. Only your ends."

Kodius blinks.

Ricinus says, "I like it."

Tyrun says, "Also, Valkri, when are the cleric teaching nights? I expect you to join the speaker's list and provide me with an answer and counter-question."

Tyrun bats his eyelashes.

Ricinus cackles!

Ricinus says, "Gonna use my list against me eh."

Kodius says, "My apologies, need to go a moment."
>
Ricinus waves to Kodius.

Kodius suddenly fades away.

Tyrun says, "No really though. I do want cleric rings."

Tyrun says, "I have to emphasize that before I cede my talking stick."

Ricinus says, "Well, I think we've gotten through enough questions anyways."

Ricinus says, "You should send that idea out as emails to folks."

Tyrun says, "Rings, preferably made of Tyruniam."

Tyrun says, "I have, and someone told me they'd do it if Grejuva said yes."

Tyrun says, "But Grejuva cold shouldered me."

Tyrun says, "No love."

Tyrun says, "Never responded."

Ricinus chuckles.

Tyrun says, "He looked upon my quest for faith and found me wanting."

Tyrun says, "My means, to burdened with narcissism, far removed from altruism."

Tyrun says, "Etc."

Tyrun says, "Or this is what I assume until you make me rings."

Porphyro just wandered through a large stone archway leading to the seating area.

Nicolet asks, "Anyone staying after for informal questions?"

Ricinus says, "Oh the room is open to talk now."

>>What is going to power commune duration and power? Will it be going through new-core-magic and simply be fired off of a non-mana based pool? I assume it uses some combination of devotion and theosophy ranks, and that circle is removed from the equation going forward?

Theurgy alone.

>>I don't quite understand this, unless it means we're going to use the Tamsine commune to active the increased defensive umph and offensive umph vs. undead, and that's no longer going to be a passive effect of our magic?

Just offensive.

>>I believe the influence devotion has over cleric PP is going to be removed in 3.0, so going on that assumption, will devotions new fluid state have benefits and drawbacks for being at low or high ends?

Devotion's influence on mana is indeed gone in X3; I don't know if there will be any new effects. One of the reasons behind the removal is that people are often too afraid to spend their devotion because their mana might decline.

>>Are there any spell ideas behind the scenes for [Antinomic Sorcery]? Curious how far in development this branch actually is.

The core support is there and just needs spells plugged in, which are mostly in brainstorming stage at present. I know Ricinus is interested in this too, so it shouldn't be too long before we begin to see some spells.

>>Also curious what effects cleric sorcery is designed for.

In a broad sense -- and this applies to all high sorceries really -- things the normal spellbooks cannot do but still thematically appropriate for the guild. For instance, we've decided that Clerics will not get a combat minion spell outside sorcery.

GM Grejuva

<<Ricinus says, "The two devotions I currently have approval for are..."
Ricinus says, "A blood sacrifice."
Ricinus says, "Good old fashioned spilling of one's own blood."
Ricinus says, "And the offering of stolen goods."
Ricinus says, "Both will need to be done at dark altars>>

One question. As I've roleplayed my prime Dwarf cleric for a very long time to be a devotee of Damaris - why would he not be also accept this commune as well? After all, Damaris is the god of Thieves. He used to have a shrine in the old Thieves guild itself, and still has an altar in a place inaccessible to any cleric - namely in one of the Thief passages.

I would think that A god so associated with Thieves, even though he's a "neutral" aspect -- would be accepting of this type of ritual, in addition to Botolf.


Love the idea of rituals for the World Dragon associated with clerical sorcery. That will make my s'kra cleric very, very happy. Particuarly since theres a couple of dragon temples she already "worships" at <in addition to her normal devotion to Ushnish>.



/---
Oh and last one, DR at any given time has a population of weenies that will criticize at the drop of a hat, don't take things personally it happens to everyone.
Leucius

FOU is an AoE spell thus suffers from innacuracy issues. He was failing a TM vs evasion check without targeting and using an innacurate spell. Not really a good example. If he'd been using horn or something it would have been a better example.

as for the actual topic at hand, all of this is pretty cool. I'd say initially I'm against haveing some type of split devotion system, it seems like it would be a lot more busy work than actual benefits would be conferred. We can RP as whatever fine, while having the mechanical flexibility to do what we need to do wherever. People who RP stringently will continue to do so, and people who don't will continue that too.

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Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.

>>Damaris - why would he not be also accept this commune as well?

Personally, though Damaris is the patron of Thieves (capital T), I don't really consider him a patron of thieves. His specialty is more suited to stealth and as the assassin of the Gods based on any info I've come across regarding his tastes. Alternatively, it could be argued (and has been) that a dark aspect like Trothfang would care little for an offering of a stolen item as well.

In consideration for these ideas, I think it's best to break down the ritual into its implications rather than just the object. The Cleric asking for devotion has broken a law in obtaining something to offer to the Gods, the shopkeeper who no longer can sell that object has suffered some sort of loss, and the object will now be destroyed violently and with possible harm to the devotee.

AGM Ricinus
Dev Systems
Cleric Advocate

You nailed it. If kneeling, then FOU hurts bad. You don't have to outclass your opponent to score max success on this contest as it is one of those heavily in our favor IMO.

while Sick followed by FoU is in fact devistating...the simple fact is, a cleric has to be much better then the intended target for SICK to cause them to kneel. In even a close match up with the cleric being higher....SICK will only cause RT....the kneeling part just doesn't happen in even or close to even match ups. As a previous poster pointed out, the survival prime guilds will always have an advantage over clerics TM spells including horn. I have sparred Zrxa many times, and can not touch him with horn, and only occasionally with fou and only then after repeated stuns to get him way off balance.

<<I have sparred Zrxa many times, and can not touch him with horn, and only occasionally with fou and only then after repeated stuns to get him way off balance.>>

How much are you aiming with Horn? Horn is our most accurate spell, and one of the most accurate spells in the game. Seems odd that you're getting better accuracy with an AoE spell.

Are you using Male focused on defenses, or a general cast?

---

Tachid smugly exclaims, "Die midget!"

>In even a close match up with the cleric being higher....SICK will only cause RT....the kneeling part just doesn't happen in even or close to even match ups.

I've never found it exceptionally hard to make a target kneel. I would consider other factors such as mana, prep time, and maybe more likely, your mentals (esp. Charisma).

Another tactic to consider is inducing RT via SICK then advancing and invoking Halo at melee. That may more reliably knock them over.

>but when I do remember it....I'm in RT while they are knocked out of the room

Maybe cast AE, then invoke? That way you don't have to worry about having to follow them as the spell will probably take care of it. When I'm feeling cocky I'll cast AE and just wander off somewhere as the spell does its business. Fun stuff. It just seems like sort of a delightful denigration to cast it and leave, like, "I'm not even going to stick around to see you being murdered, I have grass to braid."

>>...you can't hit them with one of the most highly accurate spells for Clerics(HORN), yet can hit him with an AOE (penalty by default). Right.

Given that the spell in question is a DFA spell, I'm not sure why this would be difficult to believe.

I for one am still in mourning over losing our offensive commune.

I would love it if eventually we are told how exactly our offenive and defensive communes currently operate and break caps. I suspect that they are flat percentage boosts that break it at higher levels but aren't as noticeable when lower.

Okay- lets see.

a) Undead TM commune boost. This will be welcome, and seems like the most commonly useful. But not if we are not hunting undead.
b) water making commune- why would we need this except for using the TM commune boost? Yes we use water to clean altars....clean our anloreal badge...but what I use water for 90% of the time is the offensive commune.

I am not sure what other communes we would be using commonly- currently I use the offensive commune almost every hunting trip, the defensive commune occasionally(however whenever needed), Kertigen's occasionally, etc.

What I want to be sure is that learning Theurgy will be as useful as learning other skills, and no more onerous than learning say- scholarship.

Suggestion: tie recall immortals into Theurgy learning?

>This makes me wonder- what is the concept of what communes should be now? Sure they are quasi spells- but why is making water(which is not much different from a war mage creating a snowball) a commune but making wine is a spell?

GG is rewritten in test, so there's that.

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Let's save us all some time: I'm a troll who rarely has anything helpful. There.

<<There may be other useful applications for water on demand tied into other future systems, but the water certainly could be used for the current incarnation of alchemy.>>

Not sure if anything special would be needed for it, but if it also works for the desert crossing to Muspar'i that would be nice.

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Tachid smugly exclaims, "Die midget!"