Holy crap.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

I'm excited to see the changes

Nikpack

>>(Note on Spirit Deaths: Players will no longer decay immediately. However, Resurrection and Murrula's Flames will not work on you if you died a spirit death. Similarly, deaths by Harm Evil or Harm Horde will prevent a necromancer's Spiteful Rebirth.)

>Will Necromancers be able to SRE out of a spirit death?

Yes.

-Z

I have to admit- this is much, much better than I had expected. Yes, that was the pessimist in me, but there were certain spells that I really expected to see big hits with and most of them escaped.

"- Most of the bonuses versus undead will be consolidated into the Tamsine Commune, which will no longer boost weapons."

I am most curious about this. Care to share?
Also- will we have a commune which will boost weapons? I am an ardent fan right now, and I don't really see much in the way of boosts having to do with our seondary skill sets.

Alignments- not how I would advocate it to be- but seems workable. Flavius will be going with Kertigen regardless, but I am a little concerned that min/maxing will result in 90% of clerics flocking to 1 or 2 'favored' gods. Just a concern- Kertigen's my god no matter what.

Protection from Evil
Basic Warding. Same. (Not being split, after all.)- yay!- exactly the same or losing physical defense against undead?

KW- awesome

SOL- Shield boost against everything?

Halo- is this the same? Or is the stun new?

Ghost Shroud- exactly the same as COE? Very good defense against TM with high amount of mana? Not quite getting how this will work.

Sanyu Lyba- very fun- can we please get to name ours?

Centering- sad to see anti-stun go away, but I get it- will balance just go to the basic or will it go to a higher level?

Vigil- no biggie to lose Charisma there- makes sense

Auspice- I like

Soul Bonding- lovely. Curious to see how this will work out. Hopefully the duration won't be too short.

Sad that BF stays the same but no biggie.

Revelation- not a shock at all.

Chill Spirit- will lower spirit have any affect on a player, like lower vitality or fatigue does?

SA- this sounds alot like the old SA that didn't work well. Not sure on this one yet- really a CvC spell, but not sure if its useful there.

Bless- i approve

Divine Radiance- I think I like?

Hand of Tenemlor.....curious. Will that contest TM then to decide the dispell?

GG- I love it- wisdom is perfect

Heavenly Fire- conceptually I get it but not sure how it will work

FOU- can we at least still have it primarily hit the legs as it does now, even though it loses the shield defense bypass? I love how it works right now, shields or not.

Uncurse- better than before, still extremely limited- will this be any kind of a pre-req or will we be able to bypass?

POM- whew!

OM- not sure what you mean "Stores non-cyclic beneficial spells"- isnt't that what AO does?

Ring of Blessings- okay this one I am not excited by, but no real complaint either.

Idon't Theft- very, very interesting

Meraud's Cry- AOE dispell- against all spells in effect in the area or on all persons?

Spite of Dergati- fun- very fun.

Leaping curses- yes this name must be changed- love it.


So thinking in the broader terms-

Clerics- big on Magic dispells, anti magic.
a good TM defense
Various TM spells
Big on stat boosters
Shield boost

Gaps?
No boosts in either of our secondary skillsets. Now we don't have any now either so not as big of a deal, and we get the standard survival boosts(evasion/perception), but I sort of thought we might have something in the way of weaponskill set boost and a lore skillset boost.
Other gap- no defense boosts against non-TM spells


Those are my initials thoughts. Very exciting.


Clerics are just so cuddly you can't get mad at them, until they try to rip your soul out and chew on it like a candy bar.

<<Holy crap.>>

That covers it.

The min-maxer in me is really trying to convince the RPer in me that it's fun to play a cleric because...seriously?

TM spirit spell that follows the target if they try to run? AOE that busts stealth (two of them really..)? A new and improved Flames? Soul Sickness still sick? A spell that auto kills--not slows--but kills advance and retreat?

Sweet.

My thoughts:

Can you elaborate more on communes? Are they being rewritten in tandem with the Magic release? Is the fabled Truffenyi one on the horizon?

KW: Like the concept a lot but think it should be renamed. I remember a discussion before about how Kertigen and stealth have a dubious connection. Maybe "Damaris' Will"?

Vigil: Is there any potential for spirit combat with this? I remember seeing Armifer mention possible offensive uses with Seer's Sense.

Soul Bonding: I think its newfound offensive use could prompt a slightly less warm name. "Soul Anchor"?

HORN: Thought the name change was interesting. No more light/neutral? If not maybe it could be "Horn of Asketi" given that the concept of Asketi's Winds seems to have died (sadly).

Spite of Dergati: kinda meh on the effect aside from some renegade casting it in a triage. Interesting consent implications there.

HOT: Like the added effect but am not sold on the hand mangling yet. Depends on how severe it is I guess. If it's literally, "reduced to a pulp", then I don't think it'll be very popular. The tradeoff is just questionable to me. I say let us do a full dispel with the sacrifice of both our hands, then let the ruined parts hit the target for heavy b-slap impact damage. Make it the new Incinerate.

>Leaping Curses

I vote for "Hex" to be in there somewhere. We have enough "curse this curse that" in the spellbook. "Writhing Hex" maybe.

Yes! Yes! Yes! A million times yes!

Its like Christmas in...well October. Either way I'm excited about the changes. Especially ones making some of the niche spells (AE, HOT, KW) more useful on the whole.

And we get a floating ghostie. Enough said.

-Langa

If I skip something, please assume there are no details to share about it.

>>Will Shield of Light keeps it's Floaty Disc of Rescue feature?

The quest shouldn't change.

>"- Most of the bonuses versus undead will be consolidated into the Tamsine Commune, which will no longer boost weapons."
>I am most curious about this. Care to share?

It will be a straightforward TM boost vs undead, replacing things like FF's damage bonus and HORN's accuracy bonus.

>Protection from Evil
>Basic Warding. Same. (Not being split, after all.)- yay!- exactly the same or losing physical defense against undead?

Same dual function, though I imagine the new M3 barrier mechs will feel rather different. One change you might notice is that it will no longer protect against holy magic and sorcery.

>>SOL- Shield boost against everything?

Yes.

>>Halo- is this the same? Or is the stun new?

Mostly same, with duration and pulse times both reduced drastically. Pulses will no longer weaken the spell.

>>Soul Bonding- lovely. Curious to see how this will work out. Hopefully the duration won't be too short.

As a curse type spell, it will be several minutes. It is basically a very light immobilization that lasts longer.

>>Chill Spirit- will lower spirit have any affect on a player, like lower vitality or fatigue does?

It will slightly impact "vs Fortitude" defense.

>>FOU- can we at least still have it primarily hit the legs as it does now, even though it loses the shield defense bypass? I love how it works right now, shields or not.

I'm...not quite sure why you'd want this.

>>Uncurse- better than before, still extremely limited- will this be any kind of a pre-req or will we be able to bypass?

With the caveat that we haven't discussed prereqs yet, I imagine it will continue to be required by the curses.

>>OM- not sure what you mean "Stores non-cyclic beneficial spells"- isnt't that what AO does?

AO stores dormant spells, OM stores active spells.

>>Leaping curses- yes this name must be changed

Suggest. ;)

>>Other gap- no defense boosts against non-TM spells

It was a conscious decision to have most of the Cleric anti-magic tools as active spells. General barriers will hinder the caster in some way; I felt Spite of Dergati will do enough of that.

>>Can you elaborate more on communes? Are they being rewritten in tandem with the Magic release?

No. Eluned's first commune is also slated for a rewrite (I don't know how yet), but it's not tied to Magic.

>>Is the fabled Truffenyi one on the horizon?

Although I feel really bad about this one, it has to wait a bit longer.

>>KW: Like the concept a lot but think it should be renamed. I remember a discussion before about how Kertigen and stealth have a dubious connection. Maybe "Damaris' Will"?

I'd wager that discussion was about the current spell's perception aspect. Naming a stealth debuff after Damaris doesn't seem very fitting.

>>Vigil: Is there any potential for spirit combat with this? I remember seeing Armifer mention possible offensive uses with Seer's Sense.

Probably not.

>>...given that the concept of Asketi's Winds seems to have died (sadly).

Winds of Asketi is certainly not dead, and has a good chance of being developed if we get spiritual combat right this time.

>>Soul Bond - question. since this will now work on the living, will it work on necromancers?

Yes. All offensive Cleric spells treat Necromancers same as creatures:

Low-DO Necromancer = Non-cursed living creature
High-DO Necromancer = Cursed living creature
Lich Necromancer = Fleshy undead creature

>>will bless now work on the brawling "weapons"?

No, that's what "body blessing" is for.

>>Uncurse - will this spell retain its "box uncurse" function for both cursed gems/locksmiths?

Yes.

>>Idon's Curse - if this is successfully cast at a necromancer and you manage to "steal" their spell, will you get divine/social outrage for casting a necromantic spell?

Yes. Furthermore, Clerics instantly become Unclean.

>>One question for all spells which are currently "held mana" - will these continue to be "held mana" spells?

No, spells not marked as "cyclic" in the list will all be cast normally.

GM Grejuva

I am thoroughly impressed. Magic 3.0 is shaping up to be something amazing for everyone.

I do have one question: Are there any plans for weapon/TM boosts against the living, or will we be relying entirely upon debuffs for those targets?

Loving the majority of the list.

Another reason for GG, awesome
Return of spirit combat, awesome
Self-buffs basically unchanged, awesome
A bit more effectiveness against living, awesome

Couple questions:
Sounds like Vigil + Auspice =/ Vigil as it is now?
Revelation's losing it's spot effect but it's being rolled into KW?
Can I mangle my hands more than once with HoT? I.E. if I have both my hands mangled will HoT basically kill me or can I then cast it to my heart's content?
I can't quite tell if the list of "OM spells" is being added to/shortened or what.. I guess wait and see is fine for this one, but if there's some sort of definitive response, I'm cool with it.

Very sad that antinomic isn't making the release, had big aspirations to become the best clerical sorcerer alive (though with the current generation of clerics I'm betting I'd have competition)

I'm also rather in favor of FoU's current incarnation attacking only legs; however, if it's no longer going to take a target out of hiding and of course no longer DFBelow I understand the reason to just make it into a general AoE.

Segmere
Shadow Priest, Baron's Own Militia

"The best cure for insomnia is to get a lot of sleep." ~WC Fields

>>I suppose I will consider preserving the legs-only aspect in some capacity. If it's about keeping creatures alive as long as possible for optimal training, remember that TM learning in Magic 3.0 will encourage actually killing things.

lol it's probably more so to nerf stealth users. Leg damage = death to stealth.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

>lol it's probably more so to nerf stealth users. Leg damage = death to stealth.
With the upcoming Stealth changes, this may not be needed to get the edge on stealth users, assuming you train Perception.

---

Tachid smugly exclaims, "Die midget!"

I have to be honest and say I'm jealous even though my guild's list hasn't even been announced yet.

It looks like you guys are in good hands as far as Cleric development is concerned. Kudos to the minds who helped come up with that wide-sweeping list of awesomeness.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

Okay I now that I think about the changes to TM with 3.0, I am not so stuck on leg damage. I liked getting several shots in without instant killing, but with 3.0 killing will be more important.

I am very, very sad that our offensive commune will be gone and we will have no boosts to weapons at all, other than stat boosts. I use our offensive commune during 90% of my hunting, and it is important to me. I am curious why we will have no weapon boost of any kind considering that we have a weapon requirement.

I also missed before that KW will no longer debuff perception- as a person who long mocked KW, I find I use it often just for that purpose now. Now I get why clerics are not considered stealthy- but why are we not stealthy(tertiary skill), not weaponly(secondary skill) and not TM'ly(TM boost only against undead)?



Clerics are just so cuddly you can't get mad at them, until they try to rip your soul out and chew on it like a candy bar.

When we talked about allowing Clerics to keep some stealth related functionality I asked Grejuva to consider the areas that Clerics were going to be 'weak' in. This is why you will notice some obvious holes in the Cleric lineup.

-Z

Interesting, I didn't even know Clerics could do that.

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

<<Clerics for years swore up and down that communes were completely useless while I stood there wondering which video game they were playing.

D&D going by several recent spams... erm, posts.

>>Does this mean the "new" function of Fists of Faenella will be multi-shot against everything?

Yes. Keep in mind that multi-strike spells won't just be "better" than single-strike; they will sacrifice damage in favor of accuracy.

>>Does this mean Paladins' high-soulstate-blessed fists will be going away?

Yes, but they will retain the ability within a spell as well, possibly Holy Warrior.

GM Grejuva

"a condition of the Clerics' continued development and well being is that I needed the heads of the Offense and Defense communes served to me on a platter. The amount of bonus they provided, for the duration they lasted and the cheapness of the cost of using them, are wildly out of sync with anything else in the game."

I completely get that. I love our offensive and defensive communes because they are so good, and I am not shocked at all that they were not going to continue as is.

That being said- we went from having an 'overpowered' offensive commune to no physical attack boost at all. I have no idea what directions you want communes to go in, so I don't really care whether an offensive boost is a commune or spell, but it seems to me that there should be no reason that we couldn't get a workable bonus as a spell, which would be easier to accomplish than a commune.

Clerics are weapons secondary, and have a weapon requirement- a weapons boost of somekind makes sense.



Clerics are just so cuddly you can't get mad at them, until they try to rip your soul out and chew on it like a candy bar.