Fixed the subject. :P

~Aeth

>>Admit it.<<

RAWR!

>>Fixed the subject. :P<<

Thank you.

>>Be interesting if this could be worked into the existing two spells. Cast in a combo or something it sets up combo spell that has both aspects of the two spells, more than MPP but less than MAPP.<<

The new Thief khri have a synergistic effect if specific ones are combined. I could see having both MPP + MAPP up doing something like this. MPP by itself is the same. MAPP by itself is the same. MPP + MAPP = Protection/absorption + evasion + shield + parry boost

>>Would the acronym be MOPP or MOPE?<<

lol. I think MODPP would be more appropriate.

You have to remember that Cage of Light is a third tier spell as compared to MPP's second tier. Regardless of that discrepancy, the comparison is still pretty favorable to us.


Syralon
"'Every apostle or disciple,' Mrs. Clark says, 'as much as they're running to follow their savior - they're running just as hard to escape something else.'"

The complaint isn't really about MPP sucking. I use it all the time and like it.

yLast hunting trip I think it worked a bit better than it was before. I was noticing my shield flashing on grazing hits, which leads me to believe they would have been light, but were brought down by the shield. Earlier, non-damaging hits did not cause the shield to flare. This is all observation and anecdotal.

This complaint is more about instead of Clerics getting a NEW spell released that has new functioning, we get a spell rewritten. Would it have been that tough to add a new defensive spell instead of rewriting mpp?

We have the smallest spellbook of the magic prime guilds and smaller than MOST of the other magic secondary and tertiary guilds.

>>It makes me think the majority of you are just looking at quantity and are completely forgetting about the quality of your spells. I would rather have one of my spells rewritten than another one added, personally. The spell slot shuffle is not fun, and it doesn't get any funner the higher you climb.<<

^This.

- Mazrian

>>I think it's hilarious you lament not having a spellbook as jam-packed full of crap as the Moon Mage and Warrior Mage spellbooks.<<

I'm not complaining about not having enough spells at all. I have plenty of good spells to get for many many circles, plus good ones are in the works!

I was building evidence to support my opinion.

Quite a few people liked the old MPP. It got rewritten and we still have a good, albeit different, MPP.

I don't play a MM, but after reading the spell descriptions, I will attempt to make an analogy with seal of deflection. Per play.net:

Seal of Deflection
Seal of Deflection deflects incoming offensive spells. It may be replaced anew with further casts, but its protection will drain down as it wears off.

According to the description, it will deflect incoming spells, causing them to miss. Imagine instead it gets rewritten so that the spells still hit, but instead of doing normal damage, they are doing a bit less.

Personally, I would like to cause them to miss as opposed to taking 80% or 60% or whatever damage.

I still like the synergistic idea with MPP + MAPP the best.

>> Quite a few people liked the old MPP. It got rewritten and we still have a good, albeit different, MPP.

Rewrites happen. It sounds like the current version of MPP is pretty worthy regardless.

>> Imagine instead it gets rewritten so that the spells still hit, but instead of doing normal damage, they are doing a bit less.

SoD actually does kind of do that. It won't help you evade the spell at all; it drains power out of the spell so what you're getting hit with has a lot less mana in it, which indirectly reduces the offensive power of the spell. But I digress.

These threads lately seem to be a whole lot of sour grapes about other guilds getting releases which I have never understood. Other people getting things doesn't in any way diminish or take away from what you have. I mean, yes, you want new things, I get that - but you have a dedicated GM working on things for you, and complaining about the dev of other guilds in the mean time doesn't accomplish anything.

I wonder why no one complains about scream defiance, though. Hmmm.

---

Rev. Reene

You ask, "Ever eat a Halfling?"

The grumpy Shadow Servant quietly says, "I only eat what you give me, but I thought you said we weren't going to talk about that incident."

>>I wonder why no one complains about scream defiance, though. Hmmm.<<

Because no matter what they get, they're still Bards! =)


- Mazrian

>>Other people getting things doesn't in any way diminish or take away from what you have. I mean, yes, you want new things, I get that - but you have a dedicated GM working on things for you, and complaining about the dev of other guilds in the mean time doesn't accomplish anything.<<

Everyone keeps focusing on GvG. I am not complaining about MM dev at all! MM getting the equivalent of MPP does not bother or affect(effect?) me at all. New MM spell, great!

If my posts are coming across this way, it is my failing and is not intended at all.

What I am trying to get across is we had a good thing with old mpp. Do we really need to lose this good thing for a different good thing?

Spell 1 is written with unique usage. Spell 2 is written with unique usage. Instead of having Spells 1 and 2 available, we erase spell 1 and put spell 2 in its place? Do you get what I am saying?

I'm not even complaining that we aren't getting new things, because new things are in the works. We are getting attention and that's great.

>>SoD actually does kind of do that. It won't help you evade the spell at all; it drains power out of the spell so what you're getting hit with has a lot less mana in it, which indirectly reduces the offensive power of the spell. But I digress.<<

Again, my failing. I was trying to make an analogy and it didn't come out right. I know very little about moonmages except if I go through a moon gate I will end up somewhere else.

>>I wonder why no one complains about scream defiance, though.<<

I know less about bards than I do Moonmages. Don't they play musical instruments a lot?

>> Everyone keeps focusing on GvG. I am not complaining about MM dev at all!

I can't imagine why a thread entitled MPP/COL with an intro post that lead off with a bitter comment about MM dev would give anyone that impression.

>> I know less about bards than I do Moonmages. Don't they play musical instruments a lot?

Scream defiance does the exact same thing as MPP and CoL, just much, much better. Oh, and it can be used while they're stunned or otherwise disabled for an instant effect.

If you're going to place an emphasis on what CoL does in comparison to MPP for no discernible reason we might as well go that direction too.

---

Rev. Reene

You ask, "Ever eat a Halfling?"

The grumpy Shadow Servant quietly says, "I only eat what you give me, but I thought you said we weren't going to talk about that incident."

<<Cleric GM makes a proposal for a spell that reduces incoming damage. The proposal gets approved and the decision is made to rewrite mpp. Old mpp is scrapped

What's the evidence for this is how the proposal went in GM land? Honestly I do not know. My guesses might be that perhaps the old MPP was deemed too powerful and needed to be nerfed? Or the disconuity between the spell's function and the spell's name/description warrented a rewrite (which was the reasoning given in the original post)? I mean there has been a lot of trying to bring things under global caps and streamlining of systems. Maybe this was the start of it.

I'm not saying that I don't want the old MPP back. It's top on my list of wants. But I just don't have a way of knowing what goes on behind the scenes.

Nikpack
player of Celeiros

Climbing List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Climbing_skill
Swimming List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Swimming_skill

And while I am evil, I try to avoid being just plain mean.
-Z

>>Actually I am pretty sure it did because GMs usually do stuff that we like as opposed to stuff we don't.

Well, considering this was during a period where GMs were continually oppressed by extremely foolish whining from Clerics, I actually wouldn't be all that surprised by pettiness in response. There's nothing super-human about GMs. The whining only lessened to board-normal when it was pointed out BY a GM.

And no, Lirrak was not the Cleric GM at the time, so he likely has little idea of what happened behind the scenes either.

Suggest a new spell that buffs parry skill, shield skill, EDF, evasion, whatever you like. Don't assume what happened behind the curtain as if you had any idea.


---
"Close your eyes -
For your eyes will only tell the truth..
And the truth isn't what you want to see.
In the dark, it is easy to pretend
That the truth is what it ought to be." - Erik Claudin

please bring this to a discussions folder.

this "conflict" sucks.

im tired of clicking on it.

:oP Ragran

"Well, considering this was during a period where GMs were continually oppressed by extremely foolish whining from Clerics, I actually wouldn't be all that surprised by pettiness in response. There's nothing super-human about GMs. The whining only lessened to board-normal when it was pointed out BY a GM."

As someone who was playing a cleric at the time, and was a vocal advocate for our guild, I recall no pettiness in response by any Cleric GM. Khent when he responded to questions regarding why he changed MPP was quite clear that he felt that how MPP worked didn't fit the name- Minor Physical Protection. Though there were lots of objections by clerics at the time, both the objections and Khents response were very civil. As I recall most clerics were very excited about the potential of Khent- there was lots of exciting developement right around that time.

Nor do I recall any unusual amount of complaining by clerics except during the long periods of time when we either were lacking GM's or they disappeared. Those whining were irritating clerics like myself, Lagerby, Smegul, Geoffin and Cadderly. We had very good reason to express our discontent. The "whining" didn't subside because of anything a GM said...frankly most of the clerics that posted have left the game, or continued the game but entirely stopped contributing to the boards.

I am hoping that the concept of Community Leaders means that DR is trying to include those players that are vocal advocates rather than discourage them.

"Suggest a new spell that buffs parry skill, shield skill, EDF, evasion, whatever you like. Don't assume what happened behind the curtain as if you had any idea."

He posted in the rants and raves folder- seems like a great place for him to express his frustration about how the whole turn of events with MPP. Worth revisiting in context of advocating for the replacement of a similar spell.



"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"

>> It's not like Cleric spells are somehow better pound per pound because they have fewer spells.

Trying to argue that Clerics suck, are hated by GMs, never get anything et cetera by pointing to a slightly anemic spellbook ignores the fact that Cleric spells on the whole are very versatile and provide a great deal of utility depending on how they are used. Your spells aren't just mediocre or even good, they're very often great and either the best at what they do (Benediction, Shield of Light) or completely unique in concept (Osrel Meraud). It's better than having Generic TM Spell #8 IMO. Again, quality over quantity.

You've also got a solid dev GM making neat things for you, so your spellbooks will be even more fleshed out, which is great because there's a lot of room to expand on the niches you guys have established. But you aren't sucking as a guild because you won't have more spells than there are slots for them by 150th.

---

Rev. Reene

You ask, "Ever eat a Halfling?"

The grumpy Shadow Servant quietly says, "I only eat what you give me, but I thought you said we weren't going to talk about that incident."

What Reene and Ragran said.

Nikpack
player of Celeiros

Climbing List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Climbing_skill
Swimming List:http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Swimming_skill

And while I am evil, I try to avoid being just plain mean.
-Z

I think the one thing that we can all agree on is that the cleric's guild doesn't suck. I think we can agree that Cleric Spells don't suck. I think we can even agree that the Moon Mage Guild and Moon Mage Spells don't suck.

However, I think that there are Cleric Spells that could use better functionality, that there are Cleric Spells that could use improvement and that the Cleric Spellbook could use more developement.

And really, the Moon Mage guild doesn't suck. Really.


"militantly enforcing the overly rigid standards of you and your small collection of friends"

>> Outside of the quantity/quality argument, something to note is that Clerics are a very late-blooming guild.

Not a bad thing, really. There are far too many guilds that have practically nothing to look forward to or grow into after 60th or so. Empaths I'm looking at you.

The lower end might use some fleshing out though as you point out. Fortunately spells like MPP (hey there you go) were made with this in mind and are made to be more effective at minimum casts, but there's always room for expanding.

---

Rev. Reene

You ask, "Ever eat a Halfling?"

The grumpy Shadow Servant quietly says, "I only eat what you give me, but I thought you said we weren't going to talk about that incident."

>Personally, I think the most neglected guild, at the moment, is the Paladin guild, which is still archaic in its design style. And after that, the Rangers.

Traders have even less dev. Other than that, I agree.

I don't mean make crap held mana necessarily, just have multiple uses and have the spell grow with the caster (like benediction).

The self-cast harm horde was just an example of how something could do two things and be one spell, not necessarily a good example of how to accomplish that goal.

I am --- Navak