Thanks for the response. Good luck with your development.

Madigan

Playability should trump realism; however I get a funny picture in my head of someone running up to a guard and professing that someone made them give all of their money away :P

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

>>Will bards be able to "bonus" skills they don't have themselves <i.e. empathy, trading, etc> or only those skills the bard has themself?

I don't see why it wouldn't. Thanatology might be a poor choice to lionize however.

>>you mentioned this gave "consent". For those "victims" choosing not to exercise their "consent" themselves, doing it thru the system, will it allow for "theft" accusations to the guards, or trader /thief thugs?

No. It is not currently my intent for this to be treated as theft by those systems. Perhaps my statement was misleading, the actual implication was that doing this to someone is going to lock your profile OPEN for awhile. And like I keep mentioning, it's not something you'll be able to do over and over on someone, so it's not like you'll be able to empty out someone's pockets (And I currently do not plan to have it touch gems).

>>I've never been able to get more, or less for that matter, than 25 posts per page in mobile mode regardless of what I put in the Mobile Posts per Page setting. E.g. right now its set at 50, a few minutes ago 10. Both times I get 25 per page. As far as I can tell its broken. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to how you get more?

Currently works for me at 50 per page which is my normal viewing amount non mobile too.

Try setting it on the non mobile website first?

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

<<I don't see why it wouldn't. Thanatology might be a poor choice to lionize however.>>

i was thinking more in terms of empathy - as if bard wants a certain shift, it would help the empath with the skill to give you that shift.

I know empathy/thanatology work on the same "slot", but believe me, i wouldn't want a necro to shift my bard!

---

You've seen life through distorted eyes;You know you had to learn;The execution of your mind;You really had to turn;,the book is read,The end begins to show,The truth is out, the lies are old, But you don't want to know - Black Sabbath

>>what skill will this contest for the defender?

Once we get further into the actual code the contests will shake out, but in general they'll conform to the Magic 3.0 contests.

I don't have the forum link offhand, but thanks to those crazy people over at Elanthipedia I'll provide this for reference:

http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Post:Magic_3.0_Contested_Spell_Inputs_-_8/7/2010_-_19:27:04

I'd take a solid gander at the "Charm" entry.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

>Except where noted all abilities are driven by Bardic Lore, as they cross into the supernatural territory.

Question on the relationship between this list of abilities and uses/training Bardic Lore. It's accurate to say that all of the listed abilities, except where noted, use Bardic Lore. But what about the reverse? Are all of the abilities that use Bardic Lore on the list? I know Evoke is supposed to be one. Others?

~~
Lupdels

Evokes are on the list, so...?

-Evran

The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.

>>I don't envy the GMs having to deal with the assist/forum rants that will happen when it goes live.

QFT, especially if the contests for beguile are even remotely related to a Bardic Lore vs Anything skill contest or any form of stat contest. There will be rivers of tears.

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~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

So, beguiles are not magic spell matrixes correct? They're just supernatural abilities?

What I am getting at, is the fact that beguiles would be subject to spells such as...
>Psychic Shield: Basic Warding. Provides protection against supernatural effects that are resisted by Will, magic or otherwise.

But would not be affected by magic barrier spells such as...
>Shear: Esoteric Warding. Resists all spells cast on or by the user, though the user's own spells are penalized less. If a spell is repelled by Shear, the target is subject to a reactive stun.

Am I correct in this assumption?

__
~Leilond
http://www.elanthipedia.com/wiki/Leilond
http://soundsoftime.bravehost.com

Yes.

-Evran

The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.

So I was doing some thinking about Survival and Bards.

I know Bards have gone this way, and that way in their development.

But, I never managed much into the slip part of the Bard outcry.

I've heard that development of slip for Bards was put to the wayside because they're Survival Tertiary.

To this I counter, Paladins and Rangers are Magic Tertiary, but have complete excess to casting their spells.

Bards are the performers, and have the whole slight of hand. This should be right up their alley.

I believe Slips are due for a re-write (at least they seem to need some change around, they don't work to hot or intuitive from when my Thieves use them).

I'd love to see a Skill Need not circle need for the abilities (for both Thieves and Bards), and for using them having (as appropriate) skill checks.

On the other side of things, I know Stealth in combat is going to get nerfed, so hopefully the nerfed Backstab will be just as good as this 100th Circle Ability (Yes, I used a Capital C and A just for you first killer of Malik).

Sincerely,
Player of Fraestfynger and others.
_____________________________________
Victory Over Lyras, on the 397th year and 156 days since the Victory of Lanival the Redeemer.

Bards in DR are survival tert. That comes with some implications, that may not gel with Bards in other games.

The simple fact is when you sit down and start trying to define what the guild is good at and, in many ways more importantly, what the guild is bad at you end up going "Ah... but... ah..." when you realize there isn't much the guild is bad at if you try and layer on "Part time rogue".

Good:
Magic
Lore
AoE effects
Boosting
Debilitating
Weapons

Bad:
Armor (but so is everyone in DR)
...?

Stealth, and survival skills in general essentially have to go in the bad column to try and balance things out. Another theme that we ended up putting in the "bad" column, though it doesn't show much in the current incarnation of the Bard, is that they aren't nearly as good enhancing themselves as they are enhancing others. This is rather tricky since we all know the status of group combat in DR is... well, what it is, but that's the spirit behind the Lionize abilities as an example.

Finally we did some thematic groundwork for what Bard abilities and magic actually do and the conclusion was that while a Bard can do direct damage attacks, it's not really what they're good at. They rather weaken, discourage, disable and so forth -- much more subtle effects -- and finish the job with other tools.

Clearly this is not to say you aren't going to get direct damage attacks, there are TM spells on your spell list, and screams are being expanded, but it's a weak point in the guild. This ties in with the, accurate, statement someone made the other day about Bards being more suited towards working with the elements of aether, air, and water as opposed to fire, earth, and electricity.

-Raesh

"Ever notice that B.A.'s flavor text swells in direct proportion to how much one of our characters is getting screwed?" - Brian Van Hoose

Add me to the list of folks happy with direction Bard design is taking.

I know the standard defense is "Jack of all trades! We can't be bad at anything." but I'm willing to accept being bad at some things to ensure that we're good at other things and that our Guild is being fleshed out and developed.

I for one really like the Debilitation angle for Bards and the whole weaken, discourage, disable, etc. (Title suggestion on that front, Stormcrow?)

On the other hand, I've been curious how the development is going to handle the need for Bards to be bad at survival skills in general, but the need to keep us good at things that use agility (which I think is one of our three primary stats). Anything that boosts agility would have a spillover to things like lockpicking?

~~
Lupdels

Stealth itself may be Discipline based, but Lockpicking, Disarming, and Skinning are all Agility based. It's all about manual dexterity, right? So getting back to the original, original question, is Slip more a question of stealth (and Discipline) or sleight of hand (and Agility?).

I agree that we can't expect Bards to be good at stealth and all aspects of survival. But if we're also good at agility, separate from survival, perhaps something to update slip isn't entirely out of the question?

I would think even if we're bad with survivals, we'd be "least bad" with the survivals that use agility (and reflex and I suppose charisma, if there were any).

~~
Lupdels

Meant to say Stealth not survival.

-Evran

The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.

And to back up it being a stealth feat...

http://www.play.net/forums/messages.asp?forum=20&category=4&topic=1&message=286

Key points:
-Uses Stealing and Stalking skill
-originally posted in the stealth folder

-Evran

The first slayer of Malik, may he not rest in peace.