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Tie it in with the mechanics of Tactics... Sure. I guess they're kinda similar.
But the skill? No way, Terts move slow as hell already. I like to be able to actually use my primary guild skill. I certainly can't do that with Tactics; was at the MO cap with 900 Brawling, and can barely get ANALYZE to work on Intercessors which I'm way over-qualified for.
It would be like putting Backstab, or Endurance, or Astrology or any guild-specific skill at a Tert rate, or limited by a Tert skill. No thanks.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
GORTEOUS
HEITAK
Re: Tactics
03/07/2013 10:05 PM CST
I think his plan was to have it somewhat like Tactics but I highly doubt it will have anything to do with tactics ranks, and to be honest this is good because this means we will be able to use multiple systems, expert and tactics.
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Tactics
03/08/2013 12:29 AM CST
I'm quite fine with expertise working somewhat like tactical combos, though I do understand the fear that it would require a tactics check with analyze foe. Definitely agree the two shouldn't be tied together as such, or at least there are useful combos that don't require such.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Tactics
03/08/2013 02:59 AM CST
Haven't we circled over this like, four times now? Isn't there no reason to believe that expertise and tactics will use the same ranks, and hasn't it been stated numerous times that all guild specific skills will be learned at a primary rate?
Or more to the point; in 3.0, are any guild specific skills learned at a non-primary rate? Saying 'Expertise will use the tactics system' != 'Expertise will be based on tactics ranks'.
Or more to the point; in 3.0, are any guild specific skills learned at a non-primary rate? Saying 'Expertise will use the tactics system' != 'Expertise will be based on tactics ranks'.
GORTEOUS
Re: Tactics
03/08/2013 03:22 AM CST
>> Haven't we circled over this like, four times now? Isn't there no reason to believe that expertise and tactics will use the same ranks, and hasn't it been stated numerous times that all guild specific skills will be learned at a primary rate?
That's not what I said. I said having Expertise abilities cross-checked or 'enabled' through Tactics abilities would be really stupid. Sortof like how you can have 1200 Evasion and 0 Shield, and suck vs Ranged because it require both. I was implying that if Tactics has much to do with the success of Expertise maneuvers, that it would be bad IMO.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
That's not what I said. I said having Expertise abilities cross-checked or 'enabled' through Tactics abilities would be really stupid. Sortof like how you can have 1200 Evasion and 0 Shield, and suck vs Ranged because it require both. I was implying that if Tactics has much to do with the success of Expertise maneuvers, that it would be bad IMO.
IM: Dannyboy00001111
"Fool proof system do not take into account the ingenuity of fools, nor the power of numbers."
THOMPSONJ209
Re: Tactics
03/08/2013 05:27 AM CST
>>>I've been repeatedly pointing out to you that your issues are silly,
Actually what you've been doing is putting words into my mouth, drawing baseless conclusions about the system, and arguing about things I've never said. I get that you disagree with me, but as long as you continue to assert that I said things I didn't I will continue to correct you.
thanks.
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Tactics
03/08/2013 10:19 AM CST
>Actually what you've been doing is putting words into my mouth, drawing baseless conclusions about the system, and arguing about things I've never said.
Ok, I'm done; the last two exchanges I've had with you have been directly addressing what you said. If you want to hand wave away the discussion by repeatedly denying what you've said while simultaneously restating exactly what I've been debating with you, then have at it.
>That's not what I said. I said having Expertise abilities cross-checked or 'enabled' through Tactics abilities would be really stupid. Sortof like how you can have 1200 Evasion and 0 Shield, and suck vs Ranged because it require both. I was implying that if Tactics has much to do with the success of Expertise maneuvers, that it would be bad IMO.
I must have misinterpreted you then; I hope Expertise is a primary skill, that while bearing similarities to the Combo System insofar as Kodius has stated, will not be based around a Tactics skill check.
Ok, I'm done; the last two exchanges I've had with you have been directly addressing what you said. If you want to hand wave away the discussion by repeatedly denying what you've said while simultaneously restating exactly what I've been debating with you, then have at it.
>That's not what I said. I said having Expertise abilities cross-checked or 'enabled' through Tactics abilities would be really stupid. Sortof like how you can have 1200 Evasion and 0 Shield, and suck vs Ranged because it require both. I was implying that if Tactics has much to do with the success of Expertise maneuvers, that it would be bad IMO.
I must have misinterpreted you then; I hope Expertise is a primary skill, that while bearing similarities to the Combo System insofar as Kodius has stated, will not be based around a Tactics skill check.
DR-KODIUS
Re: Tactics
03/08/2013 08:28 PM CST
Tactics != Expertise. Analyze moves and combos = Tactics. Expertise moves and combos = Expertise. Not sure what is so difficult to understand about this :/
Barbarians are not meant to be good at using Tactics, and will not get a special tie-in with the analyze foe ability. Executing an expertise based combo will be fundamentally different and yield different results.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
Barbarians are not meant to be good at using Tactics, and will not get a special tie-in with the analyze foe ability. Executing an expertise based combo will be fundamentally different and yield different results.
"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Tactics
03/09/2013 04:24 PM CST
To clarify, what stat is involved in tactics checks?
Because our debilitation based roars aren't checked like weapons against critter defences, right?
JHALIASCLERIC
Re: Tactics
03/09/2013 04:24 PM CST
To clarify, what stat is involved in tactics checks?
Because our debilitation based roars aren't checked like weapons against critter defences, right?
DIMINISHEDANGEL
Re: Tactics
03/09/2013 04:48 PM CST
>>To clarify, what stat is involved in tactics checks?
The ability to analzye successfully is tactics vs. enemy's defenses. If stats modify this contest somehow, none have been mentioned by GMs.
>>Because our debilitation based roars aren't checked like weapons against critter defences, right?
They are in the sense that your debilitation ranks modify your chance of success against a particular critter, though with decent charisma and strength it's fairly easy to land roars. Highest levels of success (i.e. 30 seconds stun/immobilizations) require good debilitation ranks however.
The ability to analzye successfully is tactics vs. enemy's defenses. If stats modify this contest somehow, none have been mentioned by GMs.
>>Because our debilitation based roars aren't checked like weapons against critter defences, right?
They are in the sense that your debilitation ranks modify your chance of success against a particular critter, though with decent charisma and strength it's fairly easy to land roars. Highest levels of success (i.e. 30 seconds stun/immobilizations) require good debilitation ranks however.
REWYN
Re: Tactics
03/09/2013 08:26 PM CST
>>To clarify, what stat is involved in tactics checks?
I'll guess that its intelligence. Logically I would imagine Intelligence vs Discipline or Charisma.
It be interesting to know this, and if any default combat verbs take other stats into effect. I always thought feint should scale off charisma instead of your agility for instance.
I'll guess that its intelligence. Logically I would imagine Intelligence vs Discipline or Charisma.
It be interesting to know this, and if any default combat verbs take other stats into effect. I always thought feint should scale off charisma instead of your agility for instance.
