>If I get my way, all Guilds will have one unique potential Tactical combo effect. Lore guilds may get additional perks, but we've not hashed those out yet.

Thanks for all your work Kodius. We all do appreciate it a lot. I see a lot of cool things with Tactics and it appears you potentially do to. So I will wait for our big break. Since I do play a Barb on the occasion I can't wait to see what those combos entail as well.

Sounds excellent.

Although if i could get an ubersmite that be nifty to.

>>If the moves fatigue you I recommend getting more stamina

I hear Kodius as Herger the Joyous here. "Grow stronger."

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~The Prydaen~

"which is a good thing since folks often overlook them in favor of MORE SLICE."


Yeah I due to the combo system being how it was I dusted off my
A kertig metal cinquedea is a heavy edged melee-ranged weapon.
A kertig metal cinquedea trains the large edged skill.

You are certain that it could do:
great puncture damage
moderate slice damage
fair impact damage
no fire damage
no cold damage
no electric damage

The metal cinquedea is poorly designed for improving the force of your attacks.

You are certain that the cinquedea is decently balanced and is reasonably suited to gaining extra attack power from your strength.

You are certain that the metal cinquedea is unusually resilient to damage, and is in pristine condition.

I gotta say I like it a lot, its very fun being able to do combos such as feint/jab/jab/draw/slice/thrust...or I can just feint/jab stuff to death with a thrust thrown in. I see a lot of people using big slice/impact weapons but I hope that a more precision style of combat is still viable for S'Kra such as Heitak, the combo system really seems to help me get into that.

Yeah, my feel is that faster swinging weapons will get more shots and thus more advantage from a combo'd critter.

Do the side effects of a analyze go off your weapon?

Puncture = More Armor Pierce
Slice = More Damage
Impact = More Balance penalty

(?)

As long as we aren't forced into using the "combo" system, or anything like it to learn expertise. I can't see having to type analyze, and then having to scroll back up the combat messaging to find the output, and then typing that in ...to learn expertise as something I'll like doing.

It's a cool system. I am sure others enjoy it. It gives a good bonus, but I hope that it isn't something we will HAVE to use to learn expertise.

It's not like you can't analyze again and get the next link in the combo. And in fact if you do that you increase the penalty the combo applies.

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TG, TG, GL, et al.

"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh

Kodius, I so very much hope you ignore anyone saying they don't want to use the Combo system. Maneuvers are still an adequate way to train Tactics if you can't be buggered to read output and type variable input. If it's a scripting issue, it's really not terribly complicated to code.

>Its why it be nice if ATTACK following an ANALYZE just followed the combo.

Didn't Kodius say it would be nightmarish to impossible to do this, either in this thread or another one? That the 'attack' command couldn't bear the weight of external modifiers? Remember, DR is not a robust and flexible engine. It's a 49 CC moped that we've strapped nitrous and a pair of mag wheels to, at this point. And probably a hamster wheel for safety.

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Pants.

Heh, yeah there is no feasible way for make ATTACK follow combos. I also don't want it to just because the game shouldn't play itself. It'd be like having a generic "spell" you prep and the game decides what it "SHOULD" have been for maximum effect.

I'm hoping to get a few areas converted to spawning Tier 1 (veteran) bosses this weekend. Hopefully that perks folks up a bit.

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"I have no data yet. It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts."
- Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes

<<I also don't want it to just because the game shouldn't play itself. It'd be like having a generic "spell" you prep and the game decides what it "SHOULD" have been for maximum effect.>>

People are going to do this anyway, as evidenced by the almost-instant adoption of a genie table. And it was only a week out of the gate in 3.0 before I saw a short script from someone that would auto-adjust whatever spell you prepped to the new prep cap without your input. Leilond has some of the most incredible short-script-macros ever for things like that.

The issue to me is that if you tie a system like combos (possible to script for experienced players; very difficult to script for casual players) to the ONLY method of learning a vital skill, you put newer folks in a hole. The experienced people that want to use combos as de facto combat attack cycles are going to do it regardless of whether you make ATTACK default or not. Not doing so just makes it tougher for the middle ground folks and newbs. I don't see anything wrong with that, and I personally don't use combos in my attack cycle now (I don't like the penalties from a lot of the moves), but it's something that's fair to consider in making the decision.

I guess all I'm saying is make expertise etc learnable in ways outside combos so that people utilize those by choice for the advantages etc, not because they have to to learn a skill.

>>People are going to do this anyway, as evidenced by the almost-instant adoption of a genie table. And it was only a week out of the gate in 3.0 before I saw a short script from someone that would auto-adjust whatever spell you prepped to the new prep cap without your input. Leilond has some of the most incredible short-script-macros ever for things like that.

The two [game doing it vs developing scripts, etc] are not the same thing.

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TG, TG, GL, et al.

"Disagreement with the fundamental plan at this point is akin to supporting Richard III vs the Tudors."
-Raesh

>>>Kodius, I so very much hope you ignore anyone saying they don't want to use the Combo system.



It's not about not wanting to use the combo system, it's about HAVING to use the combo system, or something like it to train Expertise. My Characters tactics are at very, high mind states with just bob, weave, circle....not an issue. My barb's tactics are double what he needs to circle, and will continue to grow.


However, having to use a system that seems very "clunky" to train a "guild only" skill, (thus something I'd imagine will have to be trained somewhere close to my primary weapon)...I have concerns.

I think the combo system has a place in the game. I am glad Kodius took the time to code it, and grateful for everything that has happened "3.0" wise...however, looking at the combo system, and thinking that I may HAVE (<<key work again) to use it (thus scrolling back up through combat scroll, to find my combo, and then type it in) to train a primary skill...worries me.



Kodius,

I guess I need a little more understanding of what "expertise" is supposed to do....if we had guild only pre-created combos...


Maybe they could be "multi-strike" commands.. "speed" and the output would be 2-5 (depending on skill) jabs with the roundtime tacted on at the end, or "power" with multiple slices/sweeps, etc...

Why should mages be the only one with multi-strikes?

>>I really don't see what the big issue is; if you can't read DR fast enough to catch part of a line of high lightable text from a command, you're doing something weird.

I kinda thought this myself, but was afraid to say so in case hunting gets 10 times more scrolly at some level I have yet to reach.

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~The Prydaen~

Expertise is not out yet, it could end up as many things. I like the tactics system I think its cool, expertise could be a few things with some combo attacks as part of it, even 2 hit combos where the second attack is a special move and the first one sets it up.

1) Feint/rend so you feint an attack causing an opening that lets you flank the target and doing a slash attack that causes vicious bleeding and puts you in a superior position causing the target to need to now face you again.
2) I'm all for parry/strikes and power parry attacks,( one could put you into a parry position and when you parry the attack you land an auto attack that by passes a % of the attackers defenses, if they choose to not attack and try and wait for the ability to drop you could have the option to go into another expertise attack).
3) Power parry could cause the attacker to now have extra RT for the next 2 actions or something, or have his defenses dropped a bit.
4) Expertise attacks that auto target body parts with no penalty, 2 of them to the hand and thus the target is for the most part disarmed not being able to use that hand or causing attacks with that hand to now be at a negative. Also attacking the legs to cause the target to not be able to run away or cause them to defend with a negative.
5) A combo with a knock back at the end that puts the attacker at pole and the attack after gives a bonus to thrown or bow/crossbow or pole attacks also opening the option for a charge attack putting you back at melee.

These are just quick ideas off the top of my head, but in my study of Arnis/Kali and a few other things, attacks come in combinations. I use a few things to set you up so I can go in for the kill. Sometimes I just am able to use 2 quick techniques to take my target down. I'm just trying to be positive, for all I know none of this can be coded the way I said it but the idea of things like this maybe spark something we can do. I'm just saying sometimes I just throw out attacks and power shots, but sometimes I set my target up for techniques and that is when things get fun. I hope this helps.


Heitak

>>> They aren't. We have whirl, we're getting dual load back when weapon feats are out

Whirl is more of an AOE, but yes, that and dual load is what I think about when I think about training Expertise. Not typing analyze and scrolling back up for a combo...

I just don't see how the combo system is even remotely complicated. Firstly, you can highlight the text string if you can't handle combat scroll. Secondly, after each hit is landed, another ANALYZE will tell you what's next (PROTIP: This is how you can script it easily!). Thirdly, you already have reason to analyze more than once, as each ANALYZE increases the debuff from the combo. And fourthly, adding depth and complexity is a GOOD thing. If all you want to do is run an attack script that rotates weapons and armor while maintaining a Warding and Aug form up and periodically roaring, then fine, that's your prerogative, but don't demand everyone be subject to that as well.

Incidentally, weapon/armor/IF abilities swapping is way more complicated than the combo system. I'm just having a really hard time understanding how you could want it to be more simple.

>All I've done is state that I would prefer not to be forced into using it, by tying it into expertise.

Uh... Yes... That's precisely what I'm talking about. By asking for an entirely separate system, because the combo system is... I dunno, what, too complicated? too involved? not thematically what you want? you are asking to not use the combo system. And my point is, I don't understand why you would complain about this. Or do you have an entirely new system that is simple, robust, and thematically more in line with what you think expertise should be?

I see a lot of pros with this system for barbarians:

*Being tert, tactics locks fast and easy (it's much slower for my lore prime character), so it only takes a few analyze and executes.

*I like that I don't have to bob and weave, but can analyze, smash faces, consequently move my weapons AND tactics at the same time.

*The finishing blow has some nice stunning power.

*I think tactics was more than fairly calculated for us, considering it's a tert skill, but utilized 2 parts primary (MO and brawling) and 2 parts tertiary (scholarship), with an average of secondary upon grandfathering.

*Right now, with the exp bonus from humming and the gang, many of us likely are moving tactics at a primary rate.

I do have one request/suggestion. This may help alleviate some concerns of the people who are not fans of scrolling back, opening up windows, or making match tables. What if after you succesfully analyze, if you type attack over and over, the following swings will try to complete the combo? Like you need to do thrust, chop, jab, feint... you put attack and miss, attack and successfully thrust, attack and successfully chop, attack and successfully jab, attack and miss the feint, attack and connect on the feint. Just a thought.

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"If swords ever cross, the Barbarian shall be the one left standing." - Guild Leader Agonar